Question: Throwing weapon build

[Desteplo]

Dex build is more focused for darts or ranged weapons so I wanted to go for strength builds.
But stuck after lvl8, it bottle necks at 2 solid attacks because of action economy so Lvl11 fighter isn't ideal.
So wanted some advice

Lvl 3 Weapon bond from EK seemed like a good place to start.
Lvl 5 get extra attack
Lvl 7 you get extra options
Lvl 8 feats and break-away spell

Basic attack pattern is attack, weapon bond/free action interact, attack. Then start using your other weapons because you are going to need multiple weapons regardless. This way you are at least not throwing all your money out the window. Just half.

Barbarian clashes with spells
Paladin smites are melee
Monk is melee guy
Ranger becomes MAD
Bard,cleric,Druid,sorcerer,wizard just cast spells better

Warlock is a little better if an option for eldritch blast and eldritch strike combo with bonus action throwing a weapon. But still changes the whole concept of throwing being the main stay.

Rogue would be better fit for dex builds, but EK 5-8/rogue 15 I can see working out well with sneak attack and total 6 ASI.

[Aett_Thorn]

How flexible is your DM? I know that RAW, throwing weapons suck because you can only attack twice in a round (and actually, only 1.5 attacks/2 rounds), but if you have a flexible DM like mine, you can make as many thrown attacks as you would any other type of attack. After all, it makes little sense that you can make four bow attacks per round, but can only throw two darts. So if your DM is okay with it, it might change up how you progress.

[ZorroGames]

Need to reread the books but could you approach it as Two Weapon attack only, for example throwing darts?

Since I was ambidextrous until I shattered my wrist years ago in USAF, I can see someone doing two weapon two step of "throw left, throw right, reload, repeat, cha-cha-cha" thing quite easily with a two weapon fighting skill.

[Sigreid]

See if your DM will let you treat throwing weapons like arrows so you can use all attacks. Also see if the DM is cool with sharpshooter on throwing weapns. With those two you are as viable as anyone else.

[PeteNutButter]

The Dual Wielder feat allows you to draw another weapon each turn, so if you are strictly RAW that along with the EK is enough for 3 a turn.

Most thrown weapons aren't ranged, so they would either need to be ranged or have finesse to work with sneak attack.

I'd use darts if I were you. They are ranged weapons so can benefit from archery style and... SS! This encourages heavy rogue levels after like fighter 6. Ranger is an option as well for a 4 level dip. Not MAD if you dump int.

EDIT: Don't actually TWF, use a shield so there is a reason for your lack of "bow." I'd recommend variant human to start with SS (the range is more important at low level, 20ft is weak). Grab Dual Wielder at level 4, and then just boost dex. Could grab warcaster at some point for shield spell, or just... not draw another weapon after you are done throwing.

[ZorroGames]

Monk may be optimally a melee guy but starting equipment includes possibly ten darts or is that just for raising funds in pubs and not combat? :smallsmile:

On page 77 it says "10 darts."

It also says there "Weapons: Simple weapons, shortsword."

So can Monks not choose Crossbow, Light;Shortbow, or sling at all? Or is that just a practice/preference many here adhere to?

Edit: I see page 78 refers to martial arts says"mastery of combat styles that used unarmed strikes and monk weapons, which are shortsword any any simple melee weapons that don't have the two handed or heavy property" so while I certainly would not routinely bash some one with an expensive (on a monks meager starting 5D4 GPs) LCB I don't see a restriction on shooting prior to moving into meleee range (better, letting them come to me.)

[Aett_Thorn]

Monk may be optimally a melee guy but starting equipment includes possibly ten darts or is that just for raising funds in pubs and not combat? :smallsmile:

On page 77 it says "10 darts."

It also says there "Weapons: Simple weapons, shortsword."

So can Monks not choose Crossbow, Light;Shortbow, or sling at all? Or is that just a practice/preference many here adhere to?

Edit: I see page 78 refers to martial arts says"mastery of combat styles that used unarmed strikes and monk weapons, which are shortsword any any simple melee weapons that don't have the two handed or heavy property" so while I certainly would not routinely bash some one with an expensive (on a monks meager starting 5D4 GPs) LCB I don't see a restriction on shooting prior to moving into meleee range (better, letting them come to me.)

Technically speaking, I don't believe that darts count as Monk weapons for the sake of advancing in damage die as you go up levels. However, daggers do, and can then be thrown because they have that property. Sometimes, the rules are just weird.

But yes, Monks can't choose to start with a Light Crossbow, Shortbow, or Sling RAW, unless their background gives them it.

[nickl_2000]

Technically speaking, I don't believe that darts count as Monk weapons for the sake of advancing in damage die as you go up levels. However, daggers do, and can then be thrown because they have that property. Sometimes, the rules are just weird.

Correct

At 1st level, your practice of martial arts gives you
mastery of combat styles that use unarmed strikes and
monk weapons, which are shortswords and any simple
melee weapons that don’t have the two-handed or
heavy property.

Darts are simple ranged weapons, so they don't apply. Daggers, Handaxes, Light Hammers, Javelins, and Spears all apply for Monk's weapons because they are simple Melee weapons with thrown.

[ZorroGames]

Correct

At 1st level, your practice of martial arts gives you
mastery of combat styles that use unarmed strikes and
monk weapons, which are shortswords and any simple
melee weapons that don’t have the two-handed or
heavy property.

Darts are simple ranged weapons, so they don't apply. Daggers, Handaxes, Light Hammers, Javelins, and Spears all apply for Monk's weapons because they are simple Melee weapons with thrown.

Okay so what was the rationale of giving Monks 10 darts as starting equipment in page 77? I don't want to disagree with you since I am new to 5th Edition but those two facts are certainly divergent at best. Highly.

I think Darts are allowed by design but the rest is unclear. I guess you could go with the weapon (sling) as being non-proficient under RAW? Edit: or just go with the starting provided 10 darts.

[Desteplo]

Rules are pretty RAW.
-they aren't ammunition
-duel wielded feat has to draw the weapons at the same time

In that case though lvl11 fighter with TWF becomes more viable and not require eldritch knights weapon bond.
-Though that would require a ton of ammo, and would only work first turn.
-the second turn you'd only have enough actions to draw 2
-making that a flop

As a shield and throw though 2 attacks for main action still works. More sustainable and +2 AC

-any weapon styles work with thrown?
-dueling I guess would be the only one.
-since they aren't ranged weapons
-though some are versatile

[ZorroGames]

Technically speaking, I don't believe that darts count as Monk weapons for the sake of advancing in damage die as you go up levels. However, daggers do, and can then be thrown because they have that property. Sometimes, the rules are just weird.

But yes, Monks can't choose to start with a Light Crossbow, Shortbow, or Sling RAW, unless their background gives them it.

Get the LCB, SB, sling aspect. Cool.

But...

I refer to page 77 starting equipment where Darts are provided as part of the starting gear. Why give the character a weapon he is not proficient in at the start? That makes no logical sense.

Unless you have a gambling or gaming proficiency.

[Desteplo]

Monks are proficient in all simple and short swords.
-they can only martial arts with melee weapons. Doesn't mean they cant use anything else with their normal attack action
-please stay on topic

[nickl_2000]

Okay so what was the rationale of giving Monks 10 darts as starting equipment in page 77? I don't want to disagree with you since I am new to 5th Edition but those two facts are certainly divergent at best. Highly.

I think Darts are allowed by design but the rest is unclear. I guess you could go with the weapon (sling) as being non-proficient under RAW?

I think you misunderstood my post because I didn't give enough information. Monks are proficient with darts, they just don't get their Martial Arts damage bonuses on them at later levels.

Proficiencies (phb page 77)
Armor: None
Weapons: Simple weapons, shortswords


Martial Arts (phb 78)
At 1st level, your practice of martial arts gives you
mastery o f combat styles that use unarmed strikes and
monk w eapons, which are shortswords and any simple
melee weapons that don’t have the two-handed or
heavy property.

[Aett_Thorn]

Get the LCB, SB, sling aspect. Cool.

But...

I refer to page 77 starting equipment where Darts are provided as part of the starting gear. Why give the character a weapon he is not proficient in at the start? That makes no logical sense.

Unless you have a gambling or gaming proficiency.

A Monk is proficient with Darts, he just doesn't get any of the Monk benefits with them.

[ZorroGames]

I think you misunderstood my post because I didn't give enough information. Monks are proficient with darts, they just don't get their Martial Arts damage bonuses on them at later levels.

Proficiencies (phb page 77)
Armor: None
Weapons: Simple weapons, shortswords


Martial Arts (phb 78)
At 1st level, your practice of martial arts gives you
mastery o f combat styles that use unarmed strikes and
monk w eapons, which are shortswords and any simple
melee weapons that don’t have the two-handed or
heavy property.

I considered that, and think it makes sense. Proficient in weapon of desperate "I need to do something to help <insert character name>!"

Not "Monk proficient". I actually did not consider dart as much more than a "If you can't do anything else" weapon.

[N810]

If your DM lets you use UA content, I believe there is a thrown weapon feat.
and think I recall a rogue subclass with a throwing specialty ..?
I could be wrong on that though.

[ZorroGames]

A Monk is proficient with Darts, he just doesn't get any of the Monk benefits with them.

Roger that, makes sense. Darts seem more like plinking coyotes or mice with an air gun type weapons in D&D anyway.

[nickl_2000]

Roger that, makes sense. Darts seem more like plinking coyotes or mice with an air gun type weapons in D&D anyway.

then you are misinterpreting what a D&D Dart is :)

Did you ever see the lawn darts from the 70s/80s that were 18 to 24 inches long with a 3 inch sharp metal tip at the end? You know the ones that were banned because they impaled and actually killed people? Ya, that's a D&D dart

[ZorroGames]

Monks are proficient in all simple and short swords.
-they can only martial arts with melee weapons. Doesn't mean they cant use anything else with their normal attack action
-please stay on topic

Since I am not the OP, forgive me if I am not on topic. Wandered away from my other thread dealing with monks and weapons and failed to change mental gears.

[N810]

@ZorroGames
https://i.imgur.com/wifXx.png
if your are interested the ancient roman darts where called PLUMBATA

[MrStabby]

I had a throwing character that was good fun. Barbarian ranger rogue. Thief 3 was the trick for fast hands - use the object interaction you get to draw the second dart.

[Aett_Thorn]

then you are misinterpreting what a D&D Dart is :)

Did you ever see the lawn darts from the 70s/80s that were 18 to 24 inches long with a 3 inch sharp metal tip at the end? You know the ones that were banned because they impaled and actually killed people? Ya, that's a D&D dart

Yay for Jarts!

[Alimack]

starting equipment includes possibly ten darts or is that just for raising funds in pubs

:smallbiggrin:

The best thing about being a Monk is that you can have a whole career as a professional adventurer without ever letting go of your pint. You've given me a good idea for my next character: an overweight Dwarf tavern brawler who seeks enlightenment through conversations with barmen and wields a pool cue as a quarterstaff. Drunken Master subclass naturally.

[ZorroGames]

:smallbiggrin:

The best thing about being a Monk is that you can have a whole career as a professional adventurer without ever letting go of your pint. You've given me a good idea for my next character: an overweight Dwarf tavern brawler who seeks enlightenment through conversations with barmen and wields a pool cue as a quarterstaff. Drunken Master subclass naturally.

:smallcool: :smallsmile: :smallamused: :smallwink: :smallbiggrin:

[ZorroGames]

@ZorroGames
https://i.imgur.com/wifXx.png
if your are interested the ancient roman darts where called PLUMBATA

And I roll... a natural 20!

[wilhelmdubdub]

How about Battlemaster 11 Rogue thief 3? As a bonus action you can use "fast hands." Should be able to draw another weapon as part of use an object action. You get maneuvers which would be aimed shots and get sneak attack now.

[Sir cryosin]

You can go kensei monk and pick Bart's as one of your kensei weapon. With the new kensei your weapon benefits from martial arts dice. And I do believe sents darts are a ranged weapon they don't suffer from drawing only one weapon at a time. Also the kensei has a lot of abilitys to help ranged weapons. You can also use sharpshooter on darts as well.

[Bloodcloud]

Cleric are actually some of the better thrown weapon build imo. Thunder in particular is thematic. Only one attack, martial weapon profiency, extra damage on that one attack.

[Desteplo]

was thinking about fast hands but then the problem is, you have limited throwing potential. Also 3 attacks isn't possible consistently since you can only draw 2 a turn (free and bonus action)

Kensai makes sense with for 4 possible attacks. Problem is keeping up with ammo. Although flurry has to be unarmed strike doesn't it? It specifically says unarmed strike, it doesn't say anywhere you can replace unarmed strikes with monk weapons for flurry
(Also was thinking strength based. Monk is dex, at that point bow is always better.)

[Desteplo]

Recently looked at UA, there's a spear feat that increases the damage die. So even more reason to use spears and figure out this build.

[Maxilian]

was thinking about fast hands but then the problem is, you have limited throwing potential. Also 3 attacks isn't possible consistently since you can only draw 2 a turn (free and bonus action)

Kensai makes sense with for 4 possible attacks. Problem is keeping up with ammo. Although flurry has to be unarmed strike doesn't it? It specifically says unarmed strike, it doesn't say anywhere you can replace unarmed strikes with monk weapons for flurry
(Also was thinking strength based. Monk is dex, at that point bow is always better.)

1- Rogue don't need to attack many times in one turn, in the end, they just want to hit with their Sneak Attack (normally the Bonus Action attack is done when you didn't got SA on your first attack) -You don't even get Extra Attack

2- No, Kensai can't use flurry of blows to make a non- unarmed attack also, Monk weapons let you use STR or DEX (Though you may prefer DEX for the sake of AC, but the advantage of STR, is that you can combine it with flurry of blows to use those 2 extra attack to grapple and throw your enemies prone)