Marksman 3.5

[artimus261]

Marksman

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/71/42/ba/7142ba08adafbfa94da623e4a4f651f0.jpg

"That was a fine contest! Next, do you see that fruit hanging from the tree on the hill? No? I guess this is my victory," the confident jest of Corfeld of Ellysir

The marksman is a talented combatant, focusing on his deadly aim and unerring ability to find his target’s vulnerable areas. He has learned to pace himself and place his shots exactly where he wants them, allowing him to deal vicious wounds from afar. While they lack the outdoor skills of a ranger of the combat training of a fighter they are superior to them both in their ability to remain hidden and deliver powerful shots. They may require protection or distraction in combat to safely ply their trade but their shots do more than a ranger's could ever hope to. They also gain the ability to nimbly dodge similar attacks, seeing an arrow come as if in slow motion.


Role: The marksman is a profoundly adept ranged combatant. They are unable to wade into combat the way a ranger might but if given the space are powerful support archers for the party, able to take the long view of a fight and fire upon their targets with ease.

Alignment: Any. A marksman's trade has no bearing on his mentality or morality. That said a marksman tends to follow very specific rules for his trade, ensuring his survival by those rules. Thusly they tend towards Law over Chaos.

Hit Die: d6

Starting Gold: As ranger

Class Skills
The marksman's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance(Dex), Climb(Str), Concentration(Con), Craft(Int), Escape Artist(Dex), Hide(Dex), Jump(Str), Knowledge[architecture and engineering](Int), Knowledge[geography](Int), Move Silently(Dex), Search(Int), Spot(Wis), Survival(Wis), Tumble(Dex), Use Rope(Dex)

Skill Ranks at 1st Level: 4 x (6 + Int modifier)
Skill Ranks per Level: (6 + Int modifier)


MARKSMAN


Level
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Special


1st

+1

+0

+2

+0
Far Shot, Ranged Weapon Handling

2nd

+2

+0

+3

+0
Take Aim


3rd

+3

+1

+3

+1
Ranged Precision +2d12


4th

+4

+1

+4

+1
Precise Shot


5th

+5

+1

+4

+1
Ranged Precision +3d12, Capable Sniper


6th

+6/+1

+2

+5

+2
Insightful Aim


7th

+7/+2

+2

+5

+2
Ranged Evasion, Ranged Precision +4d12


8th

+8/+3

+2

+6

+2
Eye of the Marksman, Ranged Precision(2 increments, move action)


9th

+9/+4

+3

+6

+3
Critical Precision, Swift Stalking, Ranged Precision +5d12


10th

+10/+5

+3

+7

+3
Run, Severe Wounds +1


11th

+11/+6/+1

+3

+7

+3
Improved Precise Shot, Ranged Precision +6d12


12th

+12/+7/+2

+4

+8

+4
Rapid Acquisition


13th

+13/+8/+3

+4

+8

+4
Ranged Precision +7d12, Ranged Trick Shot


14th

+14/+9/+4

+4

+9

+4
Ranged Precision(move action)


15th

+15/+10/+5

+5

+9

+5
Penetrating Shot, Ranged Precision +8d12, Ranged Precision(3rd increment, +2d12 gain)


16th

+16/+11/+6/+1

+5

+10

+5
Ranged Trick Shot


17th

+17/+12/+7/+2

+5

+10

+5
Ranged Precision +9d12


18th

+18/+13/+8/+3

+6

+11

+6



19th

+19/+14/+9/+4

+6

+11

+6
Ranged Precision +10d12, Ranged Trick Shot


20th

+20/+15/+10/+5

+6

+12

+6
Puncturing Shot, Severe Wounds +2



Class Features
All of the following are class features of the Marksman.

Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: The marksman is proficient with all simple weapons and the shortbow, composite shortbow, longbow, composite longbow, hand crossbow, light repeating crossbow, heavy repeating crossbow. The marksman is proficient with light armor but no shields.

Exotic Proficiency: A marksman can select different weapons to be proficient with at 1st level. A marksman that wishes to be proficient with the Greatbow and Composite Greatbow must lose his proficiency with the Light Repeating Crossbow and Heavy Repeating Crossbow. A marksman that wishes to be proficient with the Great Crossbow must lose his proficiency with the Hand Crossbow, Light Repeating Crossbow, and Heavy Repeating Crossbow.

Far Shot: The marksman gains Far Shot as a bonus feat at 1st level even if he does not meet the prerequisites.

Ranged Weapon Handling(Ex): Beginning at 1st level the marksman is able to keep his weapon safe in the heat of battle. The marksman gains his Wisdom modifier as a bonus against any sunder attempts made against his ranged weapon.

Take Aim(Ex): Beginning at 2nd level the marksman is able to steady his hand to properly acquire his target. By spending a move action to hold his target in his sight he gains his Wisdom modifier as a bonus on his attack roll made with a ranged weapon against the target in addition to his Dexterity modifier. If his target gains any cover or concealment at any point during it’s round the marksman loses his bonus against him. If the marksman receives damage the marksman must succeed on a Concentration check with a DC equal to 10 + the damage dealt or lose his aim. Additionally any distracting sounds or flashes of light require a DC 15 Concentration check from him or otherwise lose his aim. Beginning at 11th level as long as the marksman’s target he has chosen for his aim does not end his round with cover or concealment that marksman does not lose his aim. A marksman using Rapid Shot or Many Shot loses the benefit of his aim unless all attacks are aimed at the target he has chosen to aim at.

Ranged Precision(Ex): Beginning at 3rd level the marksman is able to deal more damage. To begin the marksman must first take aim at his target. For every full-round he spends aiming at his target he gains a +1d12 bonus on the damage roll for the attack. If the marksman loses the bonus from take aim at any point he loses his ranged precision. This additional damage can be applied out to the first full range increment of the weapon. The marksman can only gain up to +2d12 at 3rd level but gains an additional +1d12 at every other level above 3rd (+3d12 at 5th, +4d12 at 7th, +2d10 at 9th, etc.).
At 8th level he can apply this damage out to the first 2 range increments of his weapon and can now spend only a move action gaining +1d12 precision damage, allowing him to gain up to +2d12 in a single round. At 15th level he can deal this damage out to the first 3 range increments of his weapon and every move action he spends gaining precision damage grants him +2d12 instead of +1d12 allowing him to gain +4d12 in a single round.
The marksman cannot gain the benefits of feats that would allow him additional shots such as Manyshot while applying this bonus damage. Creatures immune to critical hits are immune to this damage.
A target that possesses the Deflect Arrows feat must succeed on a Reflex save with a DC equal to 10 + 1/2 the marksman's class level + his Wisdom modifier + the number of bonus damage die from Ranged Precision to successfully deflect a shot that has gained any Ranged Precision. A character that possesses the Snatch Arrows feat gains a +2 bonus on this saving throw.

Precise Shot: The marksman gains Precise Shot as a bonus feat at 4th level even if he does not meet the prerequisites. This allows the marksman to keep his aim against targets in combat.

Capable Sniper(Ex): Beginning at 5th level the marksman is able to more successfully mask his location after making a ranged attack. The marksman gains a bonus equal to his class level when making a Hide check for sniping (which is made at a -20 penalty).

Insightful Aim(Ex): Beginning at 6th level the marksman becomes able to deal additional damage with his keen intuition. The marksman now gains a bonus on his ranged damage roll equal to his Wisdom modifier after gaining a ranged precision damage bonus.

Ranged Evasion(Ex): Beginning at 7th level the marksman has developed the uncanny knack of dodging arrows and similar attacks within moments of being struck. Whenever the marksman is made the target of a ranged attack he can attempt a Reflex saving throw opposed by the attack roll. On a successful save he dodges the attack roll entirely. This ability applies to all ranged attacks that target specific spots on the marksman’s body such as an arrow, bolt, or ray attack; but not attacks that cover an area like the volley from a catapult or a rock thrown by a giant. The marksman may use this while taking aim or aiming for ranged precision but loses his focus unless the attack he is evading originates from the target he is aiming at.

Eye of the Marksman(Ex): Beginning at 8th level the marksman’s eyesight has been honed to a keen edge. The marksman gains Skill Focus(spot) as a bonus feat and now only takes a -1 penalty to his Spot checks for every 30ft of distance (instead of the normal -1 for every 10ft of distance).

Swift Stalking(Ex): Starting at 9th level, a marksman can move stealthily even at a quick pace. He no longer takes a –5 penalty on Hide and Move Silently checks when moving at any speed up to his normal speed, and he takes only a –10 penalty (instead of a –20 penalty) on Hide and Move Silently checks when running. (He takes the normal –20 penalty when attacking or charging.)

Critical Precision(Ex): At 9th level the marksman has developed the ability to deliver devastating attacks against his selected target. The marksman’s ranged attack against the target he has selected for Take Aim gains a bonus to their threat range equal to the number of Ranged Precision damage die he gains on the attack. For instance a marksman using a bow who has gained a +4d12 bonus on his next attack against his target has a threat range of 16-20. This bonus stacks with the effects of the keen enchantment or the Improved Critical feat though the effects of these benefits apply to the original threat range of the weapon and then gains the benefits of Critical Precision.

Run: At 10th level the marksman has learned how to capably retreat with speed. He gains Run as a bonus feat.

Severe Wounds(Ex): At 10th level the marksman is now able to inflict even more damage with his ranged weapons against his target. Whenever the marksman has gained at least +5d12 precision damage against his target the critical multiplier of the weapon increases by 1 multiple. At 20th level whenever the marksman gains +10d12 precision damage against his target the critical multiplier of the weapon increases by 2 multiples.

Improved Precise Shot: The marksman gains Improved Precise Shot as a bonus feat at 11th level even if he does not meet the prerequisites. This allows the marksman to keep his aim unless the target gains total cover or total concealment at any point. The target must now end their round with total cover or concealment for the marksman to lose his aim.

Rapid Acquisition(Ex): At 12th level the marksman has learned to hasten his ability to steady his aim. The marksman can now take aim as a swift action, allowing him to spend the same round to begin ranged precision.

Ranged Trick Shot: At 13th level the marksman gains the ability to make a special form of attack. The marksman gains one of the following feats as a bonus feat even if he does not meet the prerequisites: Ranged Disarm, Ranged Pin, Ranged Sunder. Despite the restrictions within the feats the marksman may perform the special attack they gained out to the full range of one range increment. The marksman selects one of these feats again at 16th level and again at 19th level. He cannot select the same feat multiple times.

Penetrating Shot: At 15th level the marksman gains Penetrating Shot as a bonus feat even if he does not meet the prerequisites. Additionally the marksman may choose to perform this feat as a full-round action to increase the length of the line effect to 120ft instead of 60ft.

Puncturing Shot(Ex): At 20th level the marksman has learned how to harness the full power of his shots and puncture the defenses of his targets. The marksman’s ranged attacks now ignore 3 points of Damage Reduction and 1 point of Natural Armor for every die of ranged precision the attack gains. For instance a marksman that has taken aim on his target and gained a +6d12 bonus to damage, ignores 6 points of his target’s Natural Armor and 18 points of any Damage Reduction he may have. This ability cannot ignore Damage Reduction or Natural Armor that has been bestowed by a spell, spell-like ability, or supernatural effect.

[Westhart]

Saw this, felt like PEACHing :smallcool: Hope it helps!



Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: The marksman is proficient with all simple weapons and the shortbow, composite shortbow, longbow, composite longbow, hand crossbow, light repeating crossbow, heavy repeating crossbow. The marksman is proficient with light armor but no shields.

Maybe add a thing here about being proficient with any bow or crossbow (for exotics in different sources)


Far Shot: The marksman gains Far Shot as a bonus feat at 1st level even if he does not meet the prerequisites.

Ranged Weapon Handling(Ex): Beginning at 1st level the marksman is able to keep his weapon safe in the heat of battle. The marksman gains his Wisdom modifier as a bonus against any sunder attempts made against his ranged weapon.

Seems Fair enough


Take Aim(Ex): Beginning at 2nd level the marksman is able to steady his hand to properly acquire his target. By spending a move action to hold his target in his sight he gains his Wisdom modifier as a bonus on his next attack roll made with a ranged weapon against the target in addition to his Dexterity modifier. If his target gains any cover or concealment at any point during it’s round the marksman loses his bonus against him. Any damage the marksman takes causes him to lose his aim. Additionally any distracting sounds or flashes of light require a DC 15 Concentration check from him or otherwise lose his aim. Beginning at 11th level as long as the marksman’s target he has chosen for his aim does not end his round with cover or concealment that marksman does not lose his aim.

Ranged Precision(Ex): Beginning at 3rd level the marksman is able to deal more damage. To begin the marksman must first take aim at his target. For every round he spends an entire round aiming at his target he gains a +1d10 bonus on the damage roll for the attack. If the marksman loses the bonus from take aim at any point he loses his ranged precision. This additional damage can be applied out to the first full range increment of the weapon. The marksman can only gain +1d10 at 3rd level but gains an additional +1d10 at every 4th level above 3rd (+2d10 at 7th, +3d10 at 11th, +4d10 at 15th, and +5d10 at 19th). At 9th level he can apply this damage out to the first 2 range increments of his weapon, and finally at 18th level he can deal this damage out to the first 3 range increments of his weapon. At 14th level the marksman only requires a move action to gain +1d10 on the damage roll. The marksman cannot gain the benefits of feats that would allow him additional shots such as Manyshot while applying this bonus damage. Creatures immune to critical hits are immune to this damage.

I would say this looks great, but the amount of time you have to wait for this makes it useless for many PC's unless they are waiting on an enemy... Even later when it becomes faster to start it, the bonus damage is not too much unless the player waits, and it stops them from using many shot which would give another attack...


Precise Shot: The marksman gains Precise Shot as a bonus feat at 4th level even if he does not meet the prerequisites. This allows the marksman to keep his aim against targets in combat.

Capable Sniper(Ex): Beginning at 5th level the marksman is able to more successfully mask his location after making a ranged attack. The marksman gains a bonus equal to his class level when making a Hide check for sniping (which is made at a -20 penalty).

Nice! This looks good.


Insightful Aim(Ex): Beginning at 6th level the marksman becomes able to deal additional damage with his keen intuition. The marksman now gains a bonus on all ranged damage rolls equal to his Wisdom modifier. However he only gains this bonus when making a ranged attack as a standard action or to his damage rolls during full-attack action. He loses this benefit if he uses the benefits of any feats or abilities that allow him to fire additional arrows or make additional ranged attacks such as Manyshot and Rapid Shot.

This looks good, not sure why you disable manyshot or rapid shot though...


Ranged Evasion(Ex): Beginning at 7th level the marksman has developed the uncanny knack of dodging arrows and similar attacks within moments of being struck. Whenever the marksman is made the target of a ranged attack he can attempt a Reflex saving throw opposed by the attack roll. On a successful save he dodges the attack roll entirely. This ability applies to all ranged attacks that target specific spots on the marksman’s body such as an arrow, bolt, or ray attack; but not attacks that cover an area like the volley from a catapult or a rock thrown by a giant. The marksman may use this while taking aim or aiming for ranged precision but loses his focus.

You lose your aim to block an attack, definitely useful. Maybe add something that the archer needs to be aware of the attack?


Eye of the Marksman(Ex): Beginning at 8th level the marksman’s eyesight has been honed to a keen edge. The marksman gains Skill Focus(spot) as a bonus feat and now only takes a -1 penalty to his Spot checks for every 30ft of distance (instead of the normal -1 for every 10ft of distance).

Swift Stalking(Ex): Starting at 9th level, a marksman can move stealthily even at a quick pace. He no longer takes a –5 penalty on Hide and Move Silently checks when moving at any speed up to his normal speed, and he takes only a –10 penalty (instead of a –20 penalty) on Hide and Move Silently checks when running. (He takes the normal –20 penalty when attacking or charging.)

Improved Precise Shot: The marksman gains Improved Precise Shot as a bonus feat at 10th level even if he does not meet the prerequisites. This allows the marksman to keep his aim unless the target gains total cover or total concealment at any point. At 11th level the target must end their round with total cover or concealment for the marksman to lose his aim.

Run: At 11th level the marksman has learned how to capably retreat with speed. He gains Run as a bonus feat.

Improved Critical: The marksman gains Improved Critical as a bonus feat at 12th level for a single ranged weapon they are proficient with.

Ranged Trick Shot: At 13th level the marksman gains the ability to make a special form of attack. The marksman gains one of the following feats as a bonus feat even if he does not meet the prerequisites: Ranged Disarm, Ranged Pin, Ranged Sunder. Despite the restrictions within the feats the marksman may perform the special attack they gained out to the full range of one range increment. The marksman selects one of these feats again at 16th level and again at 19th level. He cannot select the same feat multiple times.

Penetrating Shot: At 15th level the marksman gains Penetrating Shot as a bonus feat even if he does not meet the prerequisites. Additionally the marksman may choose to perform this feat as a full-round action to increase the length of the line effect to 120ft instead of 60ft.

Rapid Acquisition(Ex): At 17th level the marksman has learned to hasten his ability to steady his aim. The marksman can now take aim as a swift action, allowing him to spend the same round to begin ranged precision.

This pretty much saves the aim ability, but it comes so late...


Puncturing Shot(Ex): At 20th level the marksman has learned how to harness the full power of his shots and puncture the defenses of his targets. The marksman’s ranged attacks now ignore 4 points of Damage Reduction and 1 point of Natural Armor for every die of ranged precision the attack gains. For instance a marksman that has taken aim on his target and gained a +3d10 bonus to damage, ignores 3 points of his target’s Natural Armor and 12 points of any Damage Reduction he may have. This ability cannot ignore Damage Reduction or Natural Armor that has been bestowed by a spell, spell-like ability, or supernatural effect.
Oooh, Love the capstone, even if I am not a huge fan of the aim time...


1. This class is a high dex/wis based class, maybe an ability to get dex to damage?
2. Maybe--- Arching Shot: The Marksman has learned how to deal with wind wall and similar effects. When he shoots a bow he can arch over barriers in the way provided he has enough room. Obviously needs a bit more mechanic wise but something along those lines.
3. Something so they do not provoke AoO for using their bow near/in melee
4. I like the trickshots, but instead of a feat why not something that lets them ricochet it off walls, etc?

[artimus261]

Glad you liked this! I'll be the first to admit that it sucks waiting so long for a single shot but considering the accuracy and damage they gain for it i think it works decently well. At 3rd level they can spend a round basically drawing their weapon and aiming, second round is spent aiming, and 3rd is now an attack with a potential +9 or better attack bonus and a +1d10 (2d10 for heavy crossbow, 1d8 + 1d10 for light crossbow or longbow and 1d6+1d10 for shortbow and handcrossbow). It is pretty rough and i do think i'll let them get dex in there somewhere for damage but in a sense this class allows them to not even rly need Dex. All of the feats they get allow them to ignore the prereqs and they get to use wisdom for attack and damage. Definitely not saying they SHOULD ignore Dex but a marksman could arguably focus more on his Con, Int, and Wis and not lose TOO much, though with ranged evasion Dex is still a hot commodity, being able to dodge ray attack all the damn time it pretty freakin boss. thankfully once they begin to aim as a move action they begin to speed things up much faster, 1st Round: Aim+Precision +1d10, 2nd Round: Precision +2d10/+3d10, 3rd Round: Precision +4d10/ Attack. 3 rounds of waiting for a ranged shot of +4d10 out to eventually 3rd increment, that could be somewhere in the ballpark of 500ft away xP to top it off it goes just as fast even with +5d10 with rapid acquisition.
1st Round: Aim, Precision +1d10/2d10
2nd Round: Precision +3d10/4d10
3rd Round: Precision +5d10, Attack, THEN ALSO Aim again

And the capstone is pretty heavy. Throughout their advancement the bonus damage kinda just helps them pierce the DR of targets, but at that level you suddenly ignore up to 5 points of natural armor and 20 DR or any kind! This really helps seal the deal.

As for the rapid shot and many shot b-slaps it's because this class is meant to be slow and steady with powerful shots and high accuracy. If they want to pick those things up it's not a problem, though they'd have to WASTE a feat on point blank shot which this class attempts to allow an archer to avoid entirely if they don't want it. Also need to include a note about rapid shot and many shot in the Take Aim section. I'll allow them to benefit from it while using those feats provided that every shot and attack is made against that target.

Finally as for the melee clumsiness I kinda want them at a huge disadvantage in melee range. They don't even get Point Blank Shot just to kind of underscore that idea. The marksman only excels when he is given the time and space to do so. He requires a solid meat-shield to defend him and distract enemies unlike the ranger who can simply swap to melee, though the marksman has good BAB so it isn't like he CAN'T hit enemies in melee i suppose, but anyways I will definitely look into fitting Dex into Damage somewhere perhaps, PERHAPS and might add Ricochet to the Ranged Trick shot list if i like how it reads ;P

[artimus261]

Might flip Improved Critical and Rapid Acquisition around, getting Rapid at 12th and Improved Critical at 17th xP cuz I'll admit that it is SUPER late to get that quickened aim time

[artimus261]

Also about to add an ability that doesn't make Deflect Arrows the bane of your existence. Gonna require a reflex save against his shots that have ranged precision to successfully deflect. If they have snatch arrows it'll give them an extra +2 on the save. Seems fair

[Westhart]

Might flip Improved Critical and Rapid Acquisition around, getting Rapid at 12th and Improved Critical at 17th xP cuz I'll admit that it is SUPER late to get that quickened aim time
That feels better to me.

Also about to add an ability that doesn't make Deflect Arrows the bane of your existence. Gonna require a reflex save against his shots that have ranged precision to successfully deflect. If they have snatch arrows it'll give them an extra +2 on the save. Seems fair

yeah, that looks good ^^

[artimus261]

There, everything is touched up, and now the Improved Critical thing has been adjusted to be more useful since it's a level 17 thing now

[artimus261]

also just added a thing to allow them to swap out some exotic proficiencies for others for all you greatbow or great crossbow users out there

[aimlessPolymath]

Alright, quick glance over the class:
Take Aim is a neat ability which lets the Huntsman focus fire very easily, but (at least at first glance) makes Zen Archery a near-requirement for the class.
Ranged Precision is odd-it seems like it's designed for the Marksman to set up for a couple rounds, then full attack repeatedly with superboosted damage? Is it intentional that the bonus damage isn't discharged on attacks? Also, I'm a little confused about how the advancement works. Does the amount you gain per-round increase as you level, or the maximum amount you can gain? A high level character taking 5 rounds to set up is pretty much a death sentence, especially since (and I'm not sure of this) literally any damage cuts off Take Aim, which presumably cuts off the bonus damage. Finally, note that the new DC for Deflect Arrows is usually going to be smaller than the original DC (of 20).
Insightful Sniper is nice damage, although again, Zen Arrows is practically needed for the class. I'm not entirely sure why you're no-saying Rapid Shot and haste- the damage can get pretty big with Ranged Precision, but the bonus is small enough here that I think it's OK.
Ranged Evasion breaks focus so it's garbage on this class
Run is gained pretty late- possibly too late.
Rapid Acquisition is sorely needed.
I would say the late levels are a bit short on enhancements for the previous levels.
Puncturing Shot is a neat capstone.

This class needs Evasion like a fish needs water. Otherwise, it's trivial to break concentration. As-is, a Marksman can spend several rounds setting up, only to lose it all to a burning hands from a 1st level character.
Also useful would be an upgrade to R. Precision gain rate, which otherwise forces the class to take longer and longer to set up shots as they level- the opposite of what you would expect normally.

Lastly, would you mind editing your posts together rather than multiposting? It makes it harder to scroll through the thread.

[artimus261]

Well ranged precision ends up being a move action per damage die so they gain +2d10 in a single round, and it only works on the first attack made
late game example would be as follows

1st Round: Take Aim, Ranged Precision +1d10/+2d10
2nd Round: Ranged Precision +3d10/+4d10
3rd Round: Ranged Precision +5d10 THEN attack

They get to keep aim constantly as long as they aren't distracted or wounded, which i'll admit i have been thinking about regular evasion on top of ranged

but basically this ends up as a character who can, with a heavy crossbow for an example, deal 6d10+Wis every 3 rounds, not five or anything like that. plus they end up having an increased threat range so that crossbow would have a 17-20/x2 critical

considering that ANY other archer has to deal with DR on EACH arrow, even making a +5 bow only deal up to 1d8+5, making ranged combat laughable the marksman, who gets to IGNORE up to 20 DR would end up actually dealing all of that damage to the thing. out to a huge range unlike an archery focused rogue who's stuck at a 30ft distance, they can end up doing 6d10+Wis out to 450-600ft...

not sure where you're getting the need for Zen archery... they already get Wis to attack IN ADDITION to their Dex whereas Zen Archery lets them add it IN PLACE of Dex... like... Take Aim is better in every way except for maybe only being able to be used on one target at a time. I'll probably let the Marksman begin making Concentration checks to keep their aim against damage.

As for ranged evasion i don't see how a character being able to potentially being able to dodge every ray spell ever ALL THE TIME is trash. I am gonna be making a little edit that allows them to keep focus while dodging those attacks but I don't see how that is bad by any stretch, especially considering the low attack rolls of a sorc/wiz making those ray attacks

EDIT: There, now if they're aiming at a target they can freely use ranged evasion against them without losing their aim or ranged precision

EDIT EDIT: Added in the concentration check against received damage. Also wondering if they deserve a d8 HD instead of d6?

EDIT EDIT EDIT: And god zen archery has a 30ft range!? WHY WOULD A MARKSMAN EVER WANT THIS xD

[aimlessPolymath]

I meant Zen Archery as a powerful feat on this class because it makes the class practically mono-Wisdom- gaining 2x a stat to attack rolls (zen archery + take aim combined)is way better than adding two different stats to attack rolls, because you can more easily stack buffs on one stat than two. It also doesn't have a range limit in the latest printing (http://www.realmshelps.net/charbuild/feat/Zen_Archery) (Complete Warrior is more recent and so overrides Sword and Fist).

I missed that they can take move actions to double the rate of gain, though.

Ranged Evasion is bad because it means they lose their focus instantly, meaning that a mage can keep them from building up their combo incredibly easily, which would be the main focus. The edit makes it much, much better.

Oh no, a 20th level character who can deal 6d10 +5 + Wis (assuming enchanted crossbow) after 3 rounds? What if they used a longbow instead, not even bothering fullattacking, and just made one attack per round for 3 rounds? 3d8 + 3x Wis + 3x5 averages out to
38 + Wis vs. 29 or so + 3x Wis means that the longbow wins when you have at least 22 Wis- for which, see my note on Zen Archery making this class nearly SAD. I'm not comparing to a hypothetical rogue archer, just to this class against itself, making ordinary attacks.

Obviously, on round 4, the waiting one catches up fast due to a full-attack filled with 6d10 damage attacks, but it all depends on the ability to survive that long + the ability to maintain focus under the inevitable retribution, which the bow-user (defined for ease of use) has far less trouble with.

Finally, DR has never been an issue for archers, who can almost always switch in the appropriate kind of ammunition against their foe for cheap. Should it come to it, they can always use that one +4 enchantment from the Magic Item Compendium which lets the bow deal force damage, slap it on +1 arrows, and bypass all DR for the price of 500 gp per shot.

[artimus261]

Aw lame, looked up zen archery on a site and it listed the source as complete warrior but still had that limit written out xP my bad for trusting 3rd party sites lol but honestly doesn't even bug me, this whole class gives an archer a pass on Dex if they don't want it, though that archer wouldn't have the Ref saves he might want or initiative to begin his routine early.

One thing I'll say is it's very true that there are many sources of ammunition, honestly hadn't thought about that, but the enchantment buffs still consider that in that campaign each just a snap to get them. not every dm throws whatever a player wants at them, some roll on the random tables for magic items, some specifically know exactly what is where and what store has what. if they could get that force enchantment then sure, but if not I still think this class is pretty solid. a class that can sit back and build damage while the party goes to town in front, dodging rays of disintegration and enervation and whatever. even if multiple mages were keeping him pinnned down that would free up the party to take them out.

may consider boosting the ranged precision die to d12s, then it would have the max damage of a rogue's 10d6, but still half the minimum damage.

i think this class might just be a little more themed than other uber-meta focused builds that might outshine it. to me, who doesn't wanna sit back and snipe like a badass while shrugging off an entire scorching ray volley like it's nothin.

I will admit when you put the three rounds of attacks against the one, cuz they only gain that +5d10 on a single attack, it does make it sound a little weak but that's still considering that the character has no issue getting through DR, which is an assumption, though not a crazy one.

what would rly amp it up? I'm trying to make this class work but when it gets boiled down to the math like that it's easy to see it's not up to snuff. I really want an archer class that isn't built around continually volleys and picks a single powerful shot to be able to contend with the rest. specifically trying to avoid the rapid shot and many shot pitfalls for this class. I do think one thing to be said is that with all of these ranged feats accounted for by the class itself the options a marksman has for his feats are vast, but not enough to make up that difference in damage, i can see that now. would pumping up the number of die to 9d10 and gaining multiple die per move action work? for example if it moved up to 3d10 per move action a round order would look something like this

1st Round: Aim(swift), Ranged Precision +3d10/+6d10
2nd Round: Ranged Precision +9d10/Attack

that just feels too freakin good to me xU i hate running hypothetical math scenarios, but that would make that one attack 10d10+Wis after waiting for 1 round and taking up 1 other. a full attacking marksman would be doing what 4d10+ 4xWis each round? though the additional attacks would be losing BAB as he went which there is something to say for that. crap... so on average that would be, if all of them hit and with lets say 20 Wis, 42 damage in a round, so about 84 in two rounds, as opposed to... 60.... FUUUUUUUUUUU..... xU the big difference still all boils down to DR and if it really isn't as big a deal as i thought it could be, low magic/money campaigns for example might find this class useful, then I need to do some serious work on this damn thing x(

[artimus261]

For what it's worth I will say you'd be saving a helluva lot of money compared to 500gp a shot with this class, enough to probably buy plenty of other gear and goodies, but still, needs damage comparable to a full attack for 2 and god-forbid-three rounds >x(

EDIT: Would adding a fort save at a certain point to avoid 2 Con damage/die of Ranged Precision make it sufficiently desirable? that's potentially a 10 Con chunk of damage on a failed save, but even that feels too good... though 1 Con damage/die would be pretty great even at 5d10.... ugh... trying to buff but not go overboard xP

[aimlessPolymath]

Keep in mind that 500 gp is only if you can't afford, say, a set of cold iron/silver/adamantine arrows, some oils of alignment, and some slashing/bludgeoning arrows (which do exist- one's in races of the wild, the other is "blunt arrows", which are somewhere else, I forget where)
A set of those brings the average cost far down.

One thing that could be done is adjust how the damage stacks and is discharged. For example, suppose the damage was balanced around only making one shot, rather than taking several rounds before delivering many times normal damage for the next couple rounds. The reason this class is likely so hard to balance is because (as I understand it), Ranged Precision stacks don't discharge on attacks, meaning that in short fights (as are common at higher levels), it's far too weak, but in longer ones, it's absurdly powerful damage-wise.


An example would be (damage numbers adjustable)
Focus:
As a standard action, you gain one Focus charge against a selected target. When you next make an attack against them within the next 5 minutes, you may expend any number of Focus charges to gain +1 to the attack roll for each and deal an extra xdX damage for each. (xdX is roughly the damage of one normal attack, scaling appropriately with level).
As a full-round action, you may instead gain two Focus charges against a target. Whenever you would an get iterative attack, increase this number by 1.

You can store up to your level in Focus charges.

Instead of powering up all your full attacks for a while after focusing, you concentrate all the damage of your attacks into one super-accurate attack. In order to compensate for the action penalty implied in waiting, it's somewhat more efficient damage-wise when you dump in full attacks.

[artimus261]

I suppose i need to clarify it in the description but right now ranged precision does actually drop off after making an attack with it, doesn't hang around for a full-attack or for multiple rounds... so they need to be able to deliver a devastating attack with it every 3 rounds, i think the Con damage option i mentioned above might actually be a decent thing for it, allowing them to potentially do 5 Con every 3rd round which is pretty terrifying, every 6 rounds a creature would be losing 5 HP/HD along with the damage they took... grrrr, must... make.... this.... work xD

[artimus261]

thinking about amping up Ranged Precision to a maximum of 10d10 instead of 5d10, buffing it to grant 2d10 per move action at a certain level, keeping it perfectly at the every 3rd round attack mark, and changing Critical Aim to actually increase the threat range of their attacks by the number of Ranged Precision die being applied to the attack. Bows would have a freaking 10-20 threat range and crossbows would have a 9-20 threat range, helping assure them a massive strike every 3rd round, bow damage average out to about 83.5 on a crit with 20 Wis and crossbow averaged out to about 76... think this with puncturing shot and everything else might make them passable, also going to ensure that when performed with penetrating shot the first target still takes the full brunt of ranged precision... and that damage was without considering a +5 weapon so if you wanna add that the bow would be averaging at 98.5 every 3rd round and the crossbow would be at about 86, not too shabby

Edit: about to raise ranged precision die to d12, change the wisdom damage bonus to only apply to ranged precision attacks, add an ability that increases the critical multiplier if ranged precision attacks by an eventual 2 multiple, raising crossbows to x4 and bows to x5, keeping the threat range suggestion above. Considering that the 10d12 ranged precision attacks will also be ignoring 10 natural armor I think they'll be able to deal some heavy damage every 3 rounds

Edit Edit: puts average bow damage over 3 rounds doing full attack actions at about 114 assuming a +5 weapon and all attacks actually hit. An average roll for a ranged precision attack is about 136 and unlike the other attacks ignores 10 points if natural armor, helping assure the confirmed critical

[artimus261]

there everything is in place. Might bounce around the levels things are gained at cuz the mid levels feel a little clumped but everything that will be there is there, think this makes them a lot more functional at later levels and still capable at early levels :D i hope... *nervously waits for aimlessPolymath to b-slap me with maths*

[aimlessPolymath]

It's math slappin' time!

If the damage is discharged, that makes it far easier to balance- I had assumed the opposite, which supercharged estimated damage on round 4.

Let's look at time/damage requirement estimates at a couple levels with different strategies.
Let's assume, thanks to Take Aim + Zen Archery combo, that we have 80% hit odds for the first two iteratives, 30% for the third, and ignore the fourth. It's not actually true, but I'm pretending it is.
Three strategies:
Full Attack Every Round, Just Because (Rapid Shot Included), (note that there's no Wis to damage for this)
Spend One Move Action Then Fire Each Round, (just enough for Wis to damage for one attack per round)
Wait For The Longest Possible Then Shoot (measured starting at level 8) (go down to one attack per 3 rounds. I am counting that the last round is a full attack!)
I'm going to look at five key levels.
L3: First getting Ranged Precision.
L7: First iterative, but also one level before getting the next level of Ranged Precision. As such, interpolating between now and L3 is a reasonable measure of the levels in between. Also, Insightful Aim has come online.
L8: Next level of Ranged Precision.
L14: See notes on L7.
L15: Ultra-Ranged Precision.

Assumptions made: Weapon used is a composite longbow, with a strength rating of +3. Enhancement bonus is 1/3 of class level. No use of Weapon Specialization, due to not being a fighter. I will only use Rapid Shot as a related feat, which only enhances full attacks.
Wis bonus is left variable.

Damage per round, on average


Level: Attk DmgFAER,JB WFTLPTTS SOMATFER


3 4.5+3+1 17*0.8 0.8*21.5/3


7 4.5+3+2 9.5*3*0.8~=25*0.8 (20+Wis+ 26)/5


8 4.5+3+2 9.5*3*0.8 ~=20 0.8 * (20 + Wis + 26)/3 (9.5 + Wis + 6.5)*0.8


144.5+3+4 11.5 * (3*0.8 +1*0.3) ~31 0.8 * (11.5 + Wis + 7*6.5)/4~= 0.8*(14.5+Wis/4) (11.5 + Wis+6.5)*0.8


154.5+3+5 12.5 * (3*0.8 + 1*0.3) ~=34 0.8 * (11.5 +Wis + 52)/3~= 16+ 0.8 Wis/3 (12.5+13+ Wis)*0.8 = 20ish + Wis * 0.8



My math might be wrong- I did most of this by hand, but there's a clear victor, actually, for larger Wisdom bonuses. Assumed no criticals, which screw with my numbers something terrible.

Verdict: Still needs more damage :/
Serious talk: The Move Action into Attack mode is currently in the lead due to the best(huge!) scaling with Wisdom bonus- it can repeatedly stack on Wisdom bonuses over and over.

Here's why it's so good: Wisdom bonus to damage is a static bonus which is also pretty big, but you can't stack it over and over by taking more time.

What will fix it?
1. Add Wisdom (or Dex, to reduce SAD) to damage all the time, not just when sniping. This is important to make the class useful, even in short fights, and sets up for part 2.
2. Add Wisdom (or Dex, or arguably 1/2 class level) to damage FOR EACH DIE THAT'S ADDED (and actually, 1 Con per die of damage works pretty similarly, level-dependence wise). Why is this important?

When you take your turn to deal Ranged Precision, you're effectively "banking" up to 4d12 of damage which you'll cash in later. The issue is, taking your turn to deal damage, as-is, is more efficient- you can get more than 4d12 (in this case, 34 damage > an average of 26, so it's better to just take the shot) by simply taking the attack immediately. The amount you bank is less than the amount you get out. However, if you can bank more damage than you would deal otherwise, then you get more total damage over the fight by taking time to set up the shot. Adding even a little bit of extra to each of those dice (say, three points each) is enough to make them advantageous in the long run.


Edit: Didn't see crit changes. Yeah, with those around, the charged attack is probably the best- the damage multiplier involved (especially on longbows) is probably enough to push the damage over the top at 20th level - a near- guaranteed crit is around 2 effective "extra" attacks base, plus one extra for each multiplier increase. I'm not going to math this one out without both a handy spreadsheet and reference to standard ACs, although I suspect that making one attack every 2 rounds (at +6d12) becomes a viable strategy starting at 15th level, especially to enable degenerate crit builds. (+3 keen firy burst shocking burst icy burst longbow, go!). That's probably fine though.

[artimus261]

About to include Ambush feats as options for trick shot. They'll reduce ranged precision by the same amount of die for the effect. Gonna look through them and see which ones will make sense. Also gonna write a little section allowing them to qualify for prestige classes as if they had sneak attack die equal to the maximum amount of ranged precision die they can access

[artimus261]

UUUUGH just read through all of the ambush feats... none of them really fit :'( cry cry cry. still gonna offer arterial strike from Complete Warrior as an option, allowing them forgo 1d12 of precision damage to cause 1 point every round over time... maybe, not sure if it would even matter xP darnit, interesting idea is dead