New weapons [PEACH]

[Ruslan]

So, here are a few weapons to fill niches, which, in my humble opinion, need to be filled.

All weapons are Martial and Melee; all names are, of course, placeholders. Let me know what you think ...

A Throwing Knife
1d4
Light, Finesse, Thrown 30/60
Special: if you have the Extra Attack class feature, you can, as a free action, draw as many weapons of this type on your turn as you have attacks.

A Huge Sword
3d6
Two-Handed, Heavy
Special: Small creatures can't wield this weapon. Medium creatures wield it with Disadvantage.

A Long, Yes Surprisingly Light Blade
1d10
Two-Handed, Finesse

A Really Sharp Katana
1d10
Two-Handed
Special: deals additional die of damage on a critical hit

A Blatant Spiked Chain Ripoff
1d10
Two-Handed
Special: when you initiate a Disarm or Trip attempt, the enemy has Disadvantage on rolls to avoid being tripped or disarmed

A Big Axe You Can Throw
1d10
Two-Handed, Heavy, Thrown 20/40

A Fighting Stick
1d8
Two-Handed, Finesse
Special: this weapon may be used in combination with the Polearm Master feat

[Potato_Priest]

i'm going to do my commentary in red under the individual weapons.


So, here are a few weapons to fill niches, which, in my humble opinion, need to be filled.

All weapons are Martial and Melee; all names are, of course, placeholders. Let me know what you think ...

A Throwing Knife
1d4
Light, Finesse, Thrown 30/60
Special: if you have the Multiattack class feature, you can, as a free action, draw as many weapons of this type on your turn as you have attacks.

If you're ok with this being straight superior to the dagger this is fine.

A Huge Sword
3d6
Two-Handed, Heavy
Special: Small creatures can't wield this weapon. Medium creatures wield it with Disadvantage.

Seems fine. Fun for a barbarian with reckless attack or a paladin with abjure enemy.


A Long, Yes Surprisingly Light Blade
1d10
Two-Handed, Finesse

Seems OK

A Really Sharp Katana
1d10
Two-Handed
Special: deals additional die of damage on a critical hit

This needs to be better to be worthwhile. As it stands it's only a good weapon for a small size creature unless the character has crit chance boosts.

A Blatant Spiked Chain Ripoff
1d10
Two-Handed
Special: when you initiate a Disarm or Trip attempt, the enemy has Disadvantage on rolls to avoid being tripped or disarmed

I'm not sure why that's a ripoff, since it would appear to be an authentic spiked chain, not even an off-brand version. It seems acceptable, but unless you're a battlemaster you're going to rely on variant rules for it to do anything.

A Big Axe You Can Throw
1d10
Two-Handed, Heavy, Thrown 20/40

I've always wanted something like this.

A Fighting Stick
1d8
Two-Handed, Finesse
Special: this weapon may be used in combination with the Polearm Master feat

I never, ever want to see a finesse polearm master build. Strength gets nerfed hard enough already, let them have some exclusive feats. Besides, what is the physical difference between this and a quarterstaff that would warrant the different stats?

[Ruslan]

Thanks for the comments! A couple of points:


If you're ok with this being straight superior to the dagger this is fine.
It's Martial as opposed to Simple, so not strictly superior.


I never, ever want to see a finesse polearm master build. Strength gets nerfed hard enough already, let them have some exclusive feats.

Besides, what is the physical difference between this and a quarterstaff that would warrant the different stats?
Re: first point, I can see what you're saying. I will proceed with caution with this weapon.
Re: second point, I guess it's a bit longer (not long enough to have Reach, but long enough so there's no option to wield it one-handed), and a bit thinner (hence Finesse). That's my interpretation, it least.

[Mellack]

A Throwing Knife

Why is this needed when the dart already exists?


A Huge Sword

meh, seems ok


A Long, Yes Surprisingly Light Blade

Because Dex needs to be a more powerful stat? No.


A Really Sharp Katana

doesn't really have a distinct purpose


A Blatant Spiked Chain Ripoff

Who can use this? Trip is an unarmed attack for everyone but battlemasters. Disarm is also just one specific class.


A Big Axe You Can Throw

seems fine


A Fighting Stick

Again with the dex? Dexterity is already the god stat, it does not need more. Without that it is just a quaterstaff.

[Corran]

A Throwing Knife
1d4
Light, Finesse, Thrown 30/60
Special: if you have the Multiattack class feature, you can, as a free action, draw as many weapons of this type on your turn as you have attacks.
This is in every way superior to a dagger. If the aim was to fix the object interaction thing about daggers then fair enough. I am not sure why the short range had to be increased (does it make more sense in real life terms? not very familiar with feet..).
Edit: Oh, you said it's martial.


A Huge Sword
3d6
Two-Handed, Heavy
Special: Small creatures can't wield this weapon. Medium creatures wield it with Disadvantage.
I cant see why not.
Though I guess it would be a bit bad for PCs (they will take more damage from the monster using this rather than a greatsword, and it is not that eligible for party loot; but it makes sense to exist). Perhaps 2d8 would be more in line with how the weapon damage progresses along with size?
Edit: The enlarge spell adds 1d4 to weapon attacks (average 2.5). Now, it would not be elegant to have it roll 2d6 +1d4, but 2d8 offer a closer average increase to damage (2) rather than 3d6 (3.5).


A Long, Yes Surprisingly Light Blade
1d10
Two-Handed, Finesse
I'll buy that right now.
Apart from that I like this very much, I think it's quite balanced. You added the finesse property and reduced the damage from 1d12 (or 2d6) to 1d10. Makes sense. And it seems to be keeping in line with the 5e philosophy so far that GWM works only with str.


A Really Sharp Katana
1d10
Two-Handed
Special: deals additional die of damage on a critical hit
This..... sounds interesting. Surprised it's not finesse. Though if it was it would be in every way better than the previous weapon. Hmmmm, I have no knowledge on katanas (or swords) at all, but wouldnt a d8, finesse, versatile (d10) weapon make more sene for a katana?
Dont forget. If it's called katana, then some people will simply have to dual wield two of those....:smallsmile: Hence versatile rather than two handed. And all those samurais and ninjas in the movies/cartoons seem pretty agile, so wouldnt finesse make sense too? (Perhaps I miss what holds true regarding katanas in the real world, by a great margin).


A Blatant Spiked Chain Ripoff
1d10
Two-Handed
Special: when you initiate a Disarm or Trip attempt, the enemy has Disadvantage on rolls to avoid being tripped or disarmed
Meh, shouldn't abilities like this disadvantage against trips/disarms, be part of weapon feats? I think they are a bit strong to give them out freely to a weapon. Unless you are reuired to take a feat (weapon mastery) to pick that weapon? Or unless it's reserved for some special class that gets a lot of its power from special new weapons?
If it is free to be picked by anyone, then I dont like tis very much. Perhaps making it dp minimal damage (1d4), while also being two handed, could justify these extra abilities regarding trips and disarms. Then again, it may be a tad too strong even with the damage reduce. Or at least that's how I see it.
Edit: I indeed had the battlemaster in mind when writing this.


A Big Axe You Can Throw
1d10
Two-Handed, Heavy, Thrown 20/40
I like it, I think you should reduce its range though, cause as is it might be the best thrown weapon (from the str choices). Maybe a range of 10/20? Or 10/30? Whichever of the two it is that keeps in line with the rest PHB options regarding such short ranges.


A Fighting Stick
1d8
Two-Handed, Finesse
Special: this weapon may be used in combination with the Polearm Master feat
No way. Ban. Quickly. Before a rogue picks it along with PAM for every-round off turn sneak attack.

[Pr6i6e6st]

What would you guys say for a Scottish targe?; the shield with a spike on it

[Potato_Priest]

What would you guys say for a Scottish targe?; the shield with a spike on it

I'd say it's a regular shield. If you use it as an improvised weapon it's going to deal piercing damage is all.

Edit: I know that id doesn't make much sense that it's only as good as a regular shield offensively. I suppose that you could give it some superior offensive capabilities if you reduced the AC.

Here's my first draft:

Provides +1 to AC
Damage is 1d4
It's light, and is martial

I want it to be able to stab people as an off-hand attack, but this is a bit too good, given that it's usually better than a scimitar for a "dual wielder".

Second Draft:

Provides +1 to AC
Damage is 1d4
It's Martial
You can use he shield master feat's bonus action push to stab people with it instead if you want.

I like that.

[Malifice]

Mine:

Spiked chain (kusuri gama)
1d6 piercing martial weapon, finesse, two handed, reach
Two handed whip, costs 50gp

Bec de corbin
1d10 piercing or bludgeoning martial weapon, two handed, heavy, reach
B/P reach weapon all in one, cost as halberd

War mattock
2d6 piercing martial, two handed, heavy
piercing great weapon, cost 20gp

Elven curve blade (Katana)
1d8 slashing, finesse versatile (1d10), special
Elves who are proficient in the longsword are proficient in this weapon, cost 250gp

[Malifice]

I reduced the weight (and range) of the heavy crossbow and specified it uses a lever.

Gave me room to introduce the following weapon:

Arbalest
2d6 piercing, heavy, two handed, ammunition, special
Takes 3 rounds to reload with a separate windlass, range as heavy crossbow, +2 to hit a creature in medium or heavy armor at close range.

And I made the following changes to weapons

The halberd can deal piercing or slashing (spike on the end), price increased by 10gp
The Greatclub deals 1d10 and gains the heavy property

Finally the trident deals an extra dice damage on a critical hit. Im probably going to change that to 'Special: when you attempt to grapple a creature while wielding a trident, you can use the trident. If you do, you do not need a free hand to initiate or maintain the grapple, and you deal 1d6 piercing damage to your target if your grapple is successful'

[Zman]

What would you guys say for a Scottish targe?; the shield with a spike on it

Check out my weapons and armor tweaks, I include weaponized buckler, bucklers, and tower shields in addition weapon tweaks. My main tweaks even includes a weaponized shield Feat.

[Pr6i6e6st]

I'd say it's a regular shield. If you use it as an improvised weapon it's going to deal piercing damage is all.

Edit: I know that id doesn't make much sense that it's only as good as a regular shield offensively. I suppose that you could give it some superior offensive capabilities if you reduced the AC.

Here's my first draft:

Provides +1 to AC
Damage is 1d4
It's light, and is martial

I want it to be able to stab people as an off-hand attack, but this is a bit too good, given that it's usually better than a scimitar for a "dual wielder".

Second Draft:

Provides +1 to AC
Damage is 1d4
It's Martial
You can use he shield master feat's bonus action push to stab people with it instead if you want.

I like that.
Thank you, that works very well actually

[Ruslan]

Ok, I'm convinced. No polearm finesse.

[Malifice]

Ok, I'm convinced. No polearm finesse.

The whip is reach finesse (d4) one handed. I made a spiked chain (d6) finesse, reach two handed. Its more a kusuri gama than a spiked chain (and im happy with rogues sneak attacking with a kusuri gama because ninjas.)

You need to be super careful with finesse due to defensive duelist, sneak attack and other interactions. Heavy also (GWM, small creatures etc).

Polearms need to be careful with their interaction with PAM.

The only pole arm I made was the bec-de-corbin (so we have a piercing/bludgeoning halberd).

[JackPhoenix]

Am I the only one who noticed the throwing knife isn't any better than a dagger for a PC, because Multiattack isn't granted by any class? And monsters who DO have multiattack usually list specific attack option that must be used with that feature.

[Ruslan]

Am I the only one who noticed the throwing knife isn't any better than a dagger for a PC, because Multiattack isn't granted by any class? And monsters who DO have multiattack usually list specific attack option that must be used with that feature.

You got me there :smallbiggrin:
Should have been "Extra Attack class feature..."

[Malifice]

Am I the only one who noticed the throwing knife isn't any better than a dagger for a PC, because Multiattack isn't granted by any class? And monsters who DO have multiattack usually list specific attack option that must be used with that feature.

He was aiming for 'extra attack'.

Not that its needed. No class barring the fighter gets more than 2 attacks (and most get 1) so its a largely pointless ability.

If you're holding a dagger in your hands you can throw it, draw another one (free object interaction), and throw it as well. That covers every class barring fighters of 11th level plus tossing 2 daggers.

If you're holding two daggers (and are capable of three attacks per action by virtue of being a 5th level martial class, and using TWF or being a 11th level fighter) you can toss all three (throw one, throw another, draw one, throw it).

If you're a 20th level fighter and you really want to toss 4 daggers, then the dual wilder feat (allows drawing two weapons at once) lets you toss two, then draw two with your object interaction, and then toss those two as part of the same action (doing the same thing all over again when you action surge).

That said, how many DMs would stop a 4th level fighter from simply drawing and tossing 4 weapons at 20th level?

I considered creating a 'quick draw' feat (unlimited drawing of weapons on your turn as long as you have at least one free hand, initiative bonus, and a +1 to Dex) but decided it was largely worthless.

[Lombra]

I'm here just to say that heavy doesn't mean that it can't be finesse. I can see a two handed heavy great curved sword which has the finesse property (murakumo from dark souls for example) or even an heavy weapon that doesn't require two hands to wield, like i don't know, a big metal gauntlet? It wouldn't make sense IRL but that's fantasy so screw that.

[xanderh]

I disagree with the katana, simply because the katana doesn't work like that in real life.
The katana is a little more forgiving in edge alignment than a longsword, but a cutting-oriented longsword cuts better if you know what you're doing.
The katana shouldn't do more damage than a longsword. It doesn't cut better than one. It doesn't have the mass to do so. In fact, it has the weight and length of a European arming sword (the typical knightly one handed sword).

And the katana is no more a finesse weapon than the longsword is. The two weapons are equally nimble because of the pommel on the longsword. You might even argue that the katana requires slightly less finesse, because it's more forgiving.

[Malifice]

I'm here just to say that heavy doesn't mean that it can't be finesse. I can see a two handed heavy great curved sword which has the finesse property (murakumo from dark souls for example) or even an heavy weapon that doesn't require two hands to wield, like i don't know, a big metal gauntlet? It wouldn't make sense IRL but that's fantasy so screw that.

A curved blade does not = finesse.

That dude makes swinging it look easy because he's strong as an Ox.

If you were to hand the same sword to a 5'7" and 135 lb weedy (Str 8) Rogue with excellent hand eye co-ordination and quick wrists (Dex 16), he wouldnt be able to lift it, let alone wield it like a boss.

Thats the test for finesse. Would the above weedy rogue be able to wield the thing as elegantly he does a dirk, a rapier, or a stiletto?

Heavy weapons should never be finesse. The very fact its heavy means Strength takes priority, followed by your skill (proficiency, fighting style, extra attack, feats etc).

My limit is a d8 (d10) versatile, finesse weapon, or even better a d10 finesse two hander, (one step up on a rapier, but requires two hands) or a d6 finesse two handed weapon with reach (one step up on a whips damage, but requires 2 hands).

I'm using the d8 slashing (versatile d10) finesse weapon in my games:

Elven Curve Blade. If you are an Elf or Half-elf and you are proficient in the longsword, you are also proficient in this weapon. Similar weapons can be found in far off Kara-Tur where they are called 'Katanas'.

[Lombra]

A curved blade does not = finesse.

That dude makes swinging it look easy because he's strong as an Ox.

If you were to hand the same sword to a 5'7" and 135 lb weedy (Str 8) Rogue with excellent hand eye co-ordination and quick wrists (Dex 16), he wouldnt be able to lift it, let alone wield it like a boss.

Thats the test for finesse. Would the above weedy rogue be able to wield the thing as elegantly he does a dirk, a rapier, or a stiletto?

Heavy weapons should never be finesse.The very fact its heavy means Strength takes priority, followed by your skill (proficiency, fighting style, extra attack, feats etc).

I'm sorry but that doesn't make sense. I also did not imply that just because a blade is curved it must be finesse, that's just a wrong statement. It's a fantasy game, no restrictions are written in the manual to imply that heavy can't coexist with finesse, the strength to wield and lift the weapon is covered by the transportable weight rules which are based on strength, so I see no issue there, and there are no balance issues with that. Oh wait there are. Damn GWM. It transforms heavy in a buff rather than a tradeoff. Anyways, if one wants to be pedantic, all the weapons should use a combination of strength and dexterity to wield and strike, so the game's abstraction is flawed at their very basics. That's ok though, because it's a fantasy game and the design as is works very well. That being said, I can understand why you would dislike the idea of heavy finesse weapon, they give a bitter-sweet (I don't know how to translate "agrodolce" from italian) feel, but they also shake up a bit the variety, which among balance boundaries is cool in my opinion (I mean it doesn't have to make sense right?).

Yes GWM would be a problem and would make dexterity an even better stat, or rather, make strength less useful, but that's a problem of an optional rule, not of a weapon's design.

For example: (pretend that feats are not allowed, and that we are using the encumberance rule because without it the game just feels wrong)
(very)Big scimitar:
Martial,
Heavy, two-handed, finesse.
1d10 slashing damage
Weight: 8lb.

It will be hard for an 8 strength rogue to carry this around along his whole equipment, don't you think? (I mean I am almost having trouble carrying around a spear as a monk at 12 STR...) It's basically an heavy crossbow without range.

Big mace
Martial, heavy, one handed.
1d10 bludgeoning
Weight: 5lb

That's just an example of a heavy one-hander

Big flail
Martial, Heavy, Reach ,Two Handed, Finesse

1d8 slashing

Weight: 7 lb.

It doesn' t seem that unbalanced to me.

At the same time you could say that the heavy property doesn't imply heavy weight, it's just too big to be wielded by small or smaller creatures.
AND
at the same time you can refluff any weapon in any similar one, so there isn't really much effort to imagine yourself wielding something different but with the same stats of an existing weapon, alrhough that's not the topic and I digressed.