Pillars of Eternity and Shadowrun: Character tips?

[Avilan the Grey]

1. Ranger wasn't that fun. If to go combat heavy, what class did you like in PoE?

2. Fun classes for Shadowrun Returns?
Anything but Decker...

[kraftcheese]

I enjoyed playing a Street Samurai elf and putting a bunch of points into guns and charisma so I'm good in combat but still have some chatty options in Shadowrun: Dragonfall and Hong Kong because you can use your party members skills in decking, magic, etc. to make up for what you lack; I don't remember whether it's viable in Returns though.

Playing a mage or shaman is kinda fun?

[GloatingSwine]

Paladins are great for tank warriors in PoE. Stack Resolve and use a decent shield for massive amounts of deflect. Work well with the various Godlike bonuses that activate under 50% health too.

Quite a lot of what they do is passives though. The fighty classes tend to be a bit autopilot compared to the casters.

[Istarial]

I personally had fun playing a wizard in POE- stacked up AOE damage and went to town. Not that optimal, mind you, but good fun.

[T.G. Oskar]

Can't say much about PoE, but I can say quite a bit about Shadowrun. It depends, though, on the version.

Personally, I love using Adepts: specifically, Dwarf Adepts using Katanas and going halfway through Bladed Weapons, with Spellcasting on top. The idea is simple: take a Dwarf (starts with good Willpower and decent physical stats, which is what you want on a Mage or Adept), get Aim, Armor and Heal as your spells, and the other slots go for Adept Powers (I like Martial Defense and Sprint). Since you're going Bladed, you don't have to use Killing Hands to boost your damage; you go for Katanas up to Cleave. That leaves you with a really tanky Adept (with Armor at 10 or close to it) that mostly dashes to the nearest cluster of enemies and accurately (thanks to Aim) attempts to stun-lock them. Once you get that combo, battles turn out to be real easy; in fact, it's once you arrive to Katanas + Cleave where the battle goes insanely easy. The Chi moves that hit twice and thrice are your strong moves for bosses, and since AP damage with Katanas increases on a crit, you can even stunlock bosses! Hong Kong switched that a bit, because Armor is now a Conjuring spell (i.e. exclusive to Shamans), Karma is pretty scarce, and money even more so, but my Mystic Adept (now without Armor) still managed to crush the opposition by the moment it arrived to Bladed Weapons 5; that said, I required using Mystic Armor to reach the old degree of tankiness, and the extra slot and careful build allowed me to get Pain Tolerance. This build is far, far more interesting in Dragonfall with the 0 Essence bioware that boosts your AP by 1 temporarily (the enhanced Adrenal Gland, IIRC), because you can make mincemeat of just about everyone, in particular the final boss. Add Powerball as your ranged attack and mix to taste.

As a Decker, I often mix it with Rigger: one firearm (SMG or Shotgun), best deck, best offensive drone, and go half and half, with Cyberware covering as much as possible (mostly accuracy boosters). With a Sammy, it's usually an Ork, fully cybered, wielding a Rifle, as many accuracy boosters as possible, jacked up with combat drugs (Jazz is pretty nice there), with a Grenade Launcher as backup weapon for clustered enemies. Again, HK makes the build tougher: with a Decker/Rigger it's even MORE complicated because of the split costs between a deck, good programs, a solid drone, what little cyberware you can afford and your weapon, but if you play smart you don't have to spend too much on consumables, focusing your hard earned Nuyen on upgrades; on the other hand, a Sammy is just fun to build because of the cyberware/bioware revamp. Have yet to finish my Decker/Rigger run on Hong Kong before making a Sammy.

And how about Mage/Shaman? I often play a Dietrich/Gobbet equivalent (Mage + Shaman with buffing skills, and one AoE attack for good measure; like with Dietrich, it's electricity-based for the wide AoE stun effect), though properly using summoned spirits and walls for maximum effort. Shaman requires knowing how to use chokepoints, but when done, it can be fun; Mage, on the other hand...it can be fun to blast, but not that useful on Hard (and harder) difficulty because of friendly fire.

Going in terms of game: a Weapons Master Sammy in Returns is almost going on easy mode, particularly if you go ranged (and specifically in Shotgun), a Weapons Master Sammy in Dragonfall IS going on easy mode (with the 0 Essence bioware and the Accuracy boosting eyeware), and in Hong Kong...pure Adepts, because money is scarce, Karma not so much, the Weapon Foci are just hilariously good if you go bladed weapons, and if you go with Fists, there's a weapon that IIRC grants stun instead of bleeding, which is mostly what you need. Not necessarily the most fun, though, but experimenting is what makes the game so awesome. That, and making different choices in game.

[Rodin]

I may have just been playing them wrong, but I found using a Shaman as main to be rough in Shadowrun. You're heavy on support, which screws you in missions where you don't have your full team. The spirits you can summon are great but they're expensive since you keep on having to replace them - a cost not shared by many of the other classes.

Plus, each game makes a Shaman available to you as part of your main crew. They get the same set of spells and they buy their own spirits.

My personal favorite character I did was for Hong Kong, where I made a heavily Cybered Street Sam that played like a Cyberninja - no guns, just sheer speed and enhanced brutality including delightful things like razor floss built into my hands and a poison sac in my throat so I could go full Dan McNinja on people. I think at least some of the equipment for that was exclusive to Hong Kong though.

[T.G. Oskar]

I may have just been playing them wrong, but I found using a Shaman as main to be rough in Shadowrun. You're heavy on support, which screws you in missions where you don't have your full team. The spirits you can summon are great but they're expensive since you keep on having to replace them - a cost not shared by many of the other classes.

Plus, each game makes a Shaman available to you as part of your main crew. They get the same set of spells and they buy their own spirits.

My personal favorite character I did was for Hong Kong, where I made a heavily Cybered Street Sam that played like a Cyberninja - no guns, just sheer speed and enhanced brutality including delightful things like razor floss built into my hands and a poison sac in my throat so I could go full Dan McNinja on people. I think at least some of the equipment for that was exclusive to Hong Kong though.

Think about how Dietrich or Gobbet play, but with walls - both of them have Aim and Heal, which are crucial buffing spells. Your main attacker (MC if a Sammy or Adept, Eiger/Glory on Dragonfall, Wu/Gaichu on Hong Kong) gets a much needed boost to Accuracy, and you get to heal them, thus saving on medkits. That said, both Aim and Heal are part of Spellcasting instead of Conjuring - which is kinda necessary to become a solid supporter. The only Conjuring spell they actually use is Haste, because it's really, really good.

As a Shaman, you basically have access to Haste, Walls and summoning spells (also Slow, and...well, Shadow), so going pure means you're mostly doing support anyways, and heavily relying on summoned spirits. That said, summoned spirits should be left for battles that you know ARE complicated, and often use Earth (tanks), Water (blink-tanks) or Nature (stunlock) spirits, if not using ambient spirits to assist you. HK made Armor a Shaman spell as well, so you could play a proper Shaman with Haste, Armor and Walls.

The trick to an offensive Shaman is knowing how to use chokepoints - and the game gives you a fair amount of those. Once you know where those chokepoints are, you basically place the walls in such a way that they get hit at least twice; if it's an Air, Lightning or Hellstorm barrier, that means AP damage, and will keep them locked in place (if not surrounded by a barrier that grants cover). From there, an ambient spirit or a good weapon should do the trick. I don't play pure Shamans, but my assortment of spells when I do play a caster include Heal, Aim, Armor, Haste, the best available Wall, and Ball Lightning - healing, ACC boosting, damage reduction, +AP, a way to keep enemies at bay, and an AoE damage + AP nuking skill. Then, I go for Powerball, the Shaman attack spell (don't remember now if it's Acid Dart or Toxic Dart or somewhere along those lines) and a decent weapon. I don't usually buy fetishes, because the game is good enough to give you a few of them; I mostly rely on summoning spirits on-site, using Haste on self to boost AP to get 3 actions while controlling the spirit. That gets a wide spread, because I rely on Willpower, Charisma, Dexterity as main skills (no Strength whatsoever), and Spellcasting, Conjuring, Spirit Summoning, Spirit Control, Ranged Combat and enough points on a single weapon, PLUS a few points of Body for enough HP to survive latter-game blows. Again, not a pure Shaman, and overlapping with your own caster (which tends to always be a Shaman, never a Hermetic), but sorta improved. Also, don't forget about the power of your Totem - the buffs can be quite good, ranging from a mass Heal to wide-area damage reduction (as Dietrich) or a boost to Accuracy, or even a boost to damage.

The thing is that the team Shaman just happens to be well-built for support, and Heal is considered a Mage spell rather than a Shaman spell, so the team Shaman has to overlap into Spellcasting, therefore giving them access to Mage spells (even if they lack Intelligence for blasting spells, thus keeping them into mostly support), so you're not getting a pure Shaman either. If you're the team Shaman, you might have to spend a bit more on fetishes, but on those missions where you're forced to take less than your share, you're at least not bound to take your Shaman with you (i.e., when you're limited to only a partner, and you're playing a Decker; such as the mission you do for your weapons fixer on the Kreuzbazaar on DF - a Mage/Shaman and Eiger/Glory can finish the battle without doing anything, but if things get rough, you just crush them to a pulp)

I'd say pure blasting Mages are difficult to play, because while you're adding a huge arsenal of attacks to your party, the team already has a solid set of offensive skills (usually a Rifle user, a stunlocker, stun and incendiary grenades, AoE HP/AP damage, and so on), so you're just adding more offensive that can be replicated rather easily (though, casting a Fireball can be loads of fun). That said, playing a debuffer Mage/Shaman is just asking for trouble, particularly when fighting against a huge party. Playing with walls is fun, tho.

[Sajiri]

In PoE I had a lot of fun playing a melee dual wield (was it stilettos?) cipher. Admittedly I didnt get all that far since real life got in the way and stopped me from playing further, but I was just thinking about trying it out again.

[Avilan the Grey]

I think I am picking between Cipher or Barbarian in PoE.

[Inarius]

I think I am picking between Cipher or Barbarian in PoE.

Barbarians are one of the mostly automatic classes in the game. They have a limited selection of class abilities so they aren't as hands off as fighters are but they require much less attention than a caster type of class requires. They also are the AoE oriented melee character which makes them a pretty good candidate for an intelligent melee fighter due to how intelligence affects the size of AoEs.

Ciphers sort of tilt more towards the caster spectrum of the game. They have a more limited spell selection that Priests, Druids and Wizards. They cast them off of a sort of spell point system that regenerates as they do weapon damage to targets so they tend to play as quick/accurate attackers as opposed to brute force attackers like the Barbarian and Druid.

[Closet_Skeleton]

I went Paladin in PoE. Most of the abilities were useful but I really noticed how the NPC fighter guy ended up being a lot tougher.

[DodgerH2O]

Re: Shadowrun
Unfortunately SR is relatively less polished than the later iterations (Dragonfall and Hong Kong) so the fun classes IMO are less fun due to less options in general. I played through Shadowrun Returns as a fast-talking (high CHA) street samurai with SMGs and it was super easy, but not really fun.

For maximum fun I'd say a caster of some sort. The Mage/Adept or Mage/Shaman hybrids suggested above are probably best. IIRC you have enough Karma through the game to have a secondary class with at least a couple points in its primary skills. Just level both trees to about 3 or so and figure out which one you like better to focus on or even split growth half and half (though this will probably make things harder, Shadowrun in all its forms rewards specialization.)

If you're more into the "minion" class thing then pure Rigger is a solid choice. I'd personally do rifles as your secondary weapon to let you keep back out of the fray while sending your drones in. You won't have the AP to get up close and personal anyway, so melee or shotguns will be less useful.

[LibraryOgre]

2. Fun classes for Shadowrun Returns?
Anything but Decker...

I know, you said anything but Decker but...

In Shadowrun Returns, I suggest a decker because of how skill checks work. In Dragonfall and Hong Kong, you can usually ask a team member to cover any skill you don't have for a check... they didn't build that functionality into Shadowrun Returns, so you can hire talent, but can't as easily leverage that talent in conversation or interaction. While I played SRR as a decker/rigger (great action economy when not in the matrix), I did Dragonfall as a Shaman/Mage and Hong Kong as an Adept.

[Avilan the Grey]

Well I guess I wasn't clear.
I take advice for all three Shadowrun games. :smallsmile:

I finished "Returns" once, as a custom class: Basically a spray and pray charismatic gun nut. No close combat skill whatsoever, went SMG, fast reflexes and smooth tounge all the way. Worked like a charm.

[Inarius]

I went Paladin in PoE. Most of the abilities were useful but I really noticed how the NPC fighter guy ended up being a lot tougher.

Paladins can make absurdly strong tanks due to the Faith and conviction system they have. Basically the disposition of your order affects how your personality should be, if you follow the tenets of your faith with your actions and dialogue you can accumulate a massive boost to your defensive stats.

[Avilan the Grey]

I think I'll go with barbarian. I feel like being hands on.
I usually don't enjoy playing Paladin unless I can do a multiclass of some sort (I vastly prefer a Fighte / Cleric over a Paladin in DnD for example). I DO enjoy Sword and Board, it actually was my most fun playthru of Dragon Age Origins.
Barbarians are alson one of two classes you cannot find in the "wild". I think I am going to play human, btw. I don't like Dwarves, and the big guys... nah.

[Triaxx]

I'm enjoying the Fighter's ability to knock guys down, which is coming in surprisingly handy. Though frankly, I'm seeing more and more that I'm going to have to replay this as several types of characters.

[Morty]

Another martial class that's less hands-off is the monk. They've got a somewhat bigger variety of abilities, and they've got their own resource that they need to manage.

In Shadowrun Returns, a physical adept is pretty fun. Also because you don't get one on your team in any of the campaigns, unless you hire one. Glory's a melee specialist, but not an adept.

[Avilan the Grey]

Another martial class that's less hands-off is the monk. They've got a somewhat bigger variety of abilities, and they've got their own resource that they need to manage.

In Shadowrun Returns, a physical adept is pretty fun. Also because you don't get one on your team in any of the campaigns, unless you hire one. Glory's a melee specialist, but not an adept.

I just love the fact that my second favorite female character of all time is NOT typecasted. To make the troll the sniper is wonderful :smallbiggrin:
I just LOVE Eiger.

[GloatingSwine]

Paladins can make absurdly strong tanks due to the Faith and conviction system they have. Basically the disposition of your order affects how your personality should be, if you follow the tenets of your faith with your actions and dialogue you can accumulate a massive boost to your defensive stats.

That plus Resolve is their favoured stat and that governs Deflect defence.

I made a sword and board paladin that took a ferocious amount of killing. Fire godlike/Amaua, 18 Resolve.

[Avilan the Grey]

Well... there we go:

https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/823440938866650740/3BD23BEA3A885403B8F43A0A6FFF41B96DE6F722/

[T.G. Oskar]

I finished "Returns" once, as a custom class: Basically a spray and pray charismatic gun nut. No close combat skill whatsoever, went SMG, fast reflexes and smooth tounge all the way. Worked like a charm.

Well, I finished Returns about two or three times - one as a Dwarf Mystic Adept (Paul Addhin, mostly as described but with the Dragon Sword and the enhanced Katana as weapons), one as a Human Decker/Rigger (Murph-E, going with the A-Level Strato drone, the Fairlight Excalibur and the Enfield AS-7; fun times!) and one as an Elf Mage/Shaman (Coatli, playing sorta like Dietrich). Finished Dragonfall twice, one with a female Dwarf Mystic Adept (Valky, with the Monofilament Axe and the same enhanced Katana, plus the Adrenal Gland and Pain Editor bioware) and another with an Ork Street Sammy (Boz Dakka, with the Minigun and the tagging rifle, plus the Armtech GL-6 and cybered to the tusks). Finished Hong Kong only with one, who's...yup, a Dwarf Mystic Adept (Huoyan, using the best Katana and a Weapon Focus). I was doing a run with a female Human Decker/Rigger (GinnyU, going with either pistols or SMGs IIRC). So yeah, I've played a lot.

I like how Hong Kong lets you expand your character's motivations and backstory a bit more than in Dragonfall:
Valky's basically a no-nonsense Mystic Adept - kind and good-hearted, charming, but dumb as a brick. Oh, and she was Monika's love interest, so her crusade is basically for revenge. She finds being the new "Queen" of the Kreuzbasar pretty nice (meaning she didn't take well at all that the Kreuzbasar was attacked), and doesn't like to deal with shady strangers (refused the Lodge's offer). She helped Glory cleanse the spirit of Feuerstelle, rekindling her with her powers; helped Beckenbauer with his NGO; mercy-killed the Cyberzombie, amongst other things. She had a dark side, though - despite focusing on her mission, she quite evidently enjoyed killing the AI, even when it took her form (in fact, taking Monika's form enraged her even more!) She ended up refusing the offer from Hans.

On the contrary, Boz Dakka did everything for the money. Not charming at all, extremely abrasive, and always looking for profit. The Cyberzombie? Fetches a good amount of money. The Lodge being kind of the Illuminati? They pay pretty well, and the outfit he got from them was pretty spazzy. The ghouls? Doc Ezkibel is my doc, and I want my 'wares to work in tip-top shape. But, something positive he had? He followed the mission as intended. If the Johnson wants the Cyberzombie, the Johnson gets it; if the Johnson wants the guy killed, he gets killed, even if the guy promises to pay and get a cool new toy. Erase the AI? AI gets erased; and even more if it was the one that killed Monika (Dakka and her were professional acquaintances and nothing more; a clear difference). He ends up accepting Brackhaus' offer, because...hey, it's more money!

Now, as for Huoyan...we have Magnus [name redacted], an ex-convict for...let's just say being in the wrong place at the wrong time. He planned to redo his life, be a hard-working man...then his foster father Raymond made the call, and he goes in. He meets his foster brother Duncan, also reformed and working for the law. They get framed by the HK Police, get to the border town with the Walled City of Kowloon, and make deals with a very nice woman who likes to be called "Auntie". Magnus finds that he likes the idea of being a Runner, and embraces the idea, using the nickname of his youth - "Huo yan", which (very) loosely translates to "fire eyes" (because his eyes have a very weird color). Huoyan is incredibly strong and powerful with magic and martial arts, but not very charismatic and mostly street-smart; owing to living on the streets, doing what he could to survive. He IS kinda bossy, easily becoming Auntie Cheng's favorite enforcer (particularly because he's a pretty wonderful flirter, or at least has enough of a silver tongue to appease the Triad boss) and solidifying the position of leader of his group. He's a noble soul at heart, but wild like fire: he doesn't mind dirtying his hands, but he draws the line pretty clearly. Consider the moment when he was asked to gather datafiles from an overseas location; he got called with a counter-proposal, and when he realized who he was "retrieving" the info towards, he decided to do things the hard way and battle both sides, claiming the info for himself (and for Auntie Cheng, of course!) However, his street-smart, his propensity to hear and talk to everyone in the docks and develop empathy towards them (with the exception of the drone seller - he knows he tried, but Auntie Cheng insisted on having the work done, and then he couldn't dig any further) and his deep sense of loyalty allowed him to do what was considered impossible - trick a Yama King! Of course, that meant fighting the Yama King first, and it was quite the spectacle, going with his brother Wu, his close friend the Rat Shaman Gobbet, and...Racter, the Russian bastard living on the rig's engine room with a morbid sense of humor. He won, saved his father's life, and lived happily ever after... Until he was captured. That story is yet to be told.

So yeah - those little details help a lot. That I did it without having to rely (too much) on guides is an achievement. Easily one of the games I've replayed the most, with Final Fantasy Tactics being the second. Mostly because I love character creation and tweaking with characters.


I just love the fact that my second favorite female character of all time is NOT typecasted. To make the troll the sniper is wonderful :smallbiggrin:
I just LOVE Eiger.

I prefer Glory to Eiger, but that's because of her backstory. However, my favorite team-mates in Returns/Dragonfall/Hong Kong are Dietrich and Racter. The former because of his "cool team dad" attitude, and because of his famous line ("F*** no, I can't sing!") - plus, he brings the Dragonslayer powers, and is overall pretty awesome for his age. Racter, on the other hand, is so interestingly dark, cold and calculating, and having Koschei maim, eviscerate and burninate enemies just for fun is so cathartic. I'd love to have both on the same team and see how they'd react to each other, with one being a former punk turned blood-seeking shaman with a cool attitude and the other an utterly nihilistic transhumanist with a minor (ha!) God complex. They do a lovely couple, don't ya think?

[Avilan the Grey]

Could never stand Dietrich to be honest, and was mildly interested in Glory's story.
I played for a few hours.

[ArlEammon]

I personally had fun playing a wizard in POE- stacked up AOE damage and went to town. Not that optimal, mind you, but good fun.

My wizard Duryvan ended up over powered with not just a lot of magic at his disposal, but an extremely powerful gun that took down Thaos like he was just a minion.

[Rising Phoenix]

Druids with lightning spam make the game trivial in POE even Path of the Damned. Everything is permanently stunned.

[GloatingSwine]

My wizard Duryvan ended up over powered with not just a lot of magic at his disposal, but an extremely powerful gun that took down Thaos like he was just a minion.

Guns are great in PoE. A brace of pistols lets you get off a devastating first strike in most encounters.

[Avilan the Grey]

Regarding guns: yeah. I gave an acid shooting gun to that mage with tourettes in my last game and he killed more enemies with that than with spells.

... Still only going thru the forest before the first town, but wow barbarian is easy mode compared to Ranger.

[Anteros]

I might start this game in a few days. Probably going to go with some kind of dual wield class with utility options. Is there anything you need to pump at the start of the game? Like with Tyranny, you'd be gimping yourself all game if you didn't start with 30+ in lore, athletics, and subterfuge.

Oh, also is the DLC worth it?

[Avilan the Grey]

My limited advice is always be competent with a heavy crossbow or gun to open engagements with, no matter your class.

Also talking is nice but don't try to go without combat training.

[Istarial]

I personally thought white march was worth it, but since almost all of it's content is aimed at high-ish levels and the base game will probably take you a while to get through, it might be worth waiting for a sale.

[Morty]

If you want to play a dual-wielding character with utility, you can try a cipher. They're PoE's version of psions, but they build up power points by attacking with weapons.

The skills are completely separate from your class and attributes. They all have a combat use, but not all of them apply to dialogue and scripted interactions very often. Pick one or two you want to be good at, and make sure someone has enough Mechanics to disarm all the goddamned traps you'll run into. Dialogue checks involve attributes far more often than skills.

As for White March, I'd say it's worth it. The new areas are well-done, as are the new stories. Visiting them does kind of mess with the main story's pacing, though, and the difficulty spike is noticeable. However, you can access the increased level cap and new abilities without visiting the new areas.

[Avilan the Grey]

Well well.
I did the hardest fight for an early character yesterday.

The local lord. I had forgotten how hard that one is. I ended up up in the small doorway again, and suddenly it was easy. I also remembered that's how I did it the first time.
I am turning Kana into Sword and Board too, this playthru so Eder and him blocking the doorway And everyone else range-attacking was great.

[Morty]

I've heard it said that a good way to build Kana is to maximize his defence, give him a lot of bonuses to healing received, and have him chant The Dragon Thrashed, The Dragon Wailed a lot. He'll just stand among enemies and shrug off attacks as they get burned/slashed to death.