More Spellcraft to cast Epic spells (Wiz20/Outsider20) Caster L : 38

[Puke]

Hello.
I'm playing the god of magic on an epic d&d 3.5 game.

My stats :

STR: 24 (7)
DEX: 24 (7)
CON: 22 + 7 (9)
INT: 52 + 12 (27)
WIS: 25 + 12 (13)
CHA: 33 (11)

Wizard 20 / Outsider 20

Spellcraft : 27 (ability mod) + 43 (ranks) + 18 (divine rank) + 28 (Divine skill focus) + 20 (automatic best result on a dice) +4 (synergies)
Total : 140

I'm looking forward to increase this score as much as possible. After all, i'm supposed to be the god of magic. My DM tells me "Yeah, you are the god of magic, but you don't know everything. What you know is determined by your knowledge scores and spellcraft score, and the way you experiment things."

The other players did a lot of minmaxing and i'm very late compared to them...

Here are my leads :

- Item familiar : I have a lot of skill points left, so I could craft an item familiar and put 3 times the skill points to get another +43 to spellcraft. But it would be very expansive in term of skill points (our DM allows us to keep our Skill points if we dont know where to put them).
- Spells : http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/momentOfPrescience.htm
(That would give me +25 since my caster level is 38)

I think I saw somewhere in the rules that you could craft magic items granting some +X skill bonus but I can't manage to find where I saw that, nor the crafting rules for such items.

As the god of magic, I don't have to pay to develop epic spells. I'm supposed to master every seed and factor (but I still pay the casting price if there is one, and I need to meet the spellcraft check...).

If you have any lead to increase my spellcraft score, I would be happy to know it.

Thanks for you help and for taking the time to read this post.

[Psyren]

Pretty much any Truenamer guide will have a lot of advice for you as far as optimizing the heck out of one Int-based skill. +30 competence item, masterwork tool, item familiar as you mentioned, having your deity enroll in the Paragnostic Assembly...

[OldTrees1]

Here is initially a +29 to +30 but it gets stronger if your initial spellcraft is higher

Fox's Epic Cunning/Insight Series
Fortify Seed (DC 13+4X or 17+6X)
Duration 20 hours (+0) or 40 hours (+2)
Target: Personal (-2)
Casting Time: 10min (-18)
Total: 4X-7 or 6X-3

I assume you have a +12 enhancement bonus already in your stats.

Fox's Epic Cunning I
DC 139, Duration 40h, +36 enhancement to Int (up from +12 means +12 to spellcraft, now 152)

Fox's Epic Insight I
DC 143, Duration 40h, +24 insight to Int (+12 to spellcraft, now 164)

Fox's Epic Cunning II
DC 163, Duration 40h, +42 enhancement to Int (up from +36 means +3 to spellcraft, now 167)

Fox's Epic Insight II
DC 167, Duration 40h, +28 enhancement to Int (up from +24 means +2 to spellcraft, now 169)

Fox's Epic Cunning III
DC 169, Duration 20h, +44 enhancement to Int (up from +42 means +1 to spellcraft, now 170)

[Kayblis]

Rules for items are in the Magic Item Compendium(MIC).

For skill items, the bonus is a Competence bonus, so it stacks with everything you have. The cost is [(bonus)² * 100], so a +5 item would be 2,500gp. Incidentally, the highest bonus you can get without entering Epic realm and multiplying costs by 10 would be +44 for 193,600gp. Consult your wallet before going further.

[Graypairofsocks]

All of this stuff is from the core rule books, and is in the OGL parts.

There are several feats that give an increase to Spellcraft:

+2 bonus to Spellcraft from the "Magical Aptitude (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#magicalAptitude)" feat.
+3 bonus to Spellcraft from the "Skill Focus(Spellcraft) (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#skillFocus)" feat.
+10 bonus to Spellcraft from "Epic Skill Focus(Spellcraft) (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#epicSkillFocus)".

5 ranks in the "Knowledge (arcana)" skill. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/usingSkills.htm#skillSynergy) grants you a +2 bonus on Spellcraft checks.
This bonus (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/skills.htm) increases by +2 for every additional 20 ranks the character has in the skill.


A "Headband of Epic Intellect (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#headbandofEpicIntellect) (+12)" gives a +6 bonus to spell craft due to the +12 intelligence increase.

The rod called "Epic Spellcaster (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/magicItems/rods.htm#epicSpellcaster)" grants a +10 insight bonus to Spellcraft.

Reading a "Tome of Clear Thought (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#tomeofClearThought) (+5)" grants a +5 inherent bonus to Int. This translates to a +2 bonus to Spellcraft.

[Puke]

Thanks to everyone.


Pretty much any Truenamer guide will have a lot of advice for you as far as optimizing the heck out of one Int-based skill. +30 competence item, masterwork tool, item familiar as you mentioned, having your deity enroll in the Paragnostic Assembly...

The question is : how do I craft a +30 competence bonus item ? (The god of creation is my ally si I don't need any feat, but I don't know where you find how to craft a +30 comp item in the rules).
Since our DM said no item can have more than +12 enhancement bonus (as creation price), but there might be exceptions to this rule.
Non epic items have a maximum of +5 enhancement, and epic items a maximum of +12 (even if the epic level handbook has a char for items beyond +12)

EDIT 2 :
Rules for items are in the Magic Item Compendium(MIC).

For skill items, the bonus is a Competence bonus, so it stacks with everything you have. The cost is [(bonus)² * 100], so a +5 item would be 2,500gp. Incidentally, the highest bonus you can get without entering Epic realm and multiplying costs by 10 would be +44 for 193,600gp. Consult your wallet before going further.
Ok I'm searching in the book.

EDIT : Oh, right. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm
Looks like competence bonus is not enhancement bonus, and as such, is not limited in the same way.
But still, how do I know if I can put any other bonus to my item ?

Let's assume I ask the god of creation to craft me a ring with +30 competence bonus to spellcraft ( 90 000 golds value). What is the enhancement bonus of my ring ?
I don't know If my point if very clear so here is an exemple :

A sword of frost has a +1 enhancement bonus to determine the total market price.

So, I could add a total of +5 enhancement bonus in total for a non epic weapon.

The rules states an item is not epic as long as the competence bonus is lesser than +30.
But does it means I can put a competence bonus AND a +5 enhancement bonus on the ring ?




Here is initially a +29 to +30 but it gets stronger if your initial spellcraft is higher

Fox's Epic Cunning/Insight Series
Fortify Seed (DC 13+4X or 17+6X)
Duration 20 hours (+0) or 40 hours (+2)
Target: Personal (-2)
Casting Time: 10min (-18)
Total: 4X-7 or 6X-3

I assume you have a +12 enhancement bonus already in your stats.

Fox's Epic Cunning I
DC 139, Duration 40h, +36 enhancement to Int (up from +12 means +12 to spellcraft, now 152)

Fox's Epic Insight I
DC 143, Duration 40h, +24 insight to Int (+12 to spellcraft, now 164)

Fox's Epic Cunning II
DC 163, Duration 40h, +42 enhancement to Int (up from +36 means +3 to spellcraft, now 167)

Fox's Epic Insight II
DC 167, Duration 40h, +28 enhancement to Int (up from +24 means +2 to spellcraft, now 169)

Fox's Epic Cunning III
DC 169, Duration 20h, +44 enhancement to Int (up from +42 means +1 to spellcraft, now 170)

Yes I already have The Crown of the Lady of Pain (+12 int / +12 Wis).
I also have +5 inherent bonus to Int, Wis, Cons, Char, obtained using permanent epic magic and some rituals.

[Puke]

New question :
Is there any limitation regarding the maximum enhancement bonus I could reach with the FORTIFY seed ?

If I remember well, the max enhancement available on a magic item is ECL / 3. But I may be wrong, and I don't know if this rule applies to epic spells.

[flappeercraft]

IIRC as a deity you get access to divine Spells which would allow you to cast Guidance of the avatar for a +20 competence bonus on the check. Also something Greater Heroism gives a +4 Morale bonus to Skill checks. Also you could get a +2 Circumstance from a Masterwork item if you can get that through your DM. Then the Sadism and Masochism spells from BoVD also exist so if you're willing to take or deal damage for a long time while doing it that might work, Willing sacrifice from EoE could give a small bonus. Finally there is Aid another so you could get 8 low level casters or simulacra of you to aid you on that.

[Puke]

IIRC as a deity you get access to divine Spells which would allow you to cast Guidance of the avatar for a +20 competence bonus on the check. Also something Greater Heroism gives a +4 Morale bonus to Skill checks. Also you could get a +2 Circumstance from a Masterwork item if you can get that through your DM. Then the Sadism and Masochism spells from BoVD also exist so if you're willing to take or deal damage for a long time while doing it that might work, Willing sacrifice from EoE could give a small bonus. Finally there is Aid another so you could get 8 low level casters or simulacra of you to aid you on that.

Thanks.
Yes I know Guidance of the Avatar. But there is one flaw... I'm my own deity ! But still, if we ignore the description, it may work.

[flappeercraft]

Thanks.
Yes I know Guidance of the Avatar. But there is one flaw... I'm my own deity ! But still, if we ignore the description, it may work.

Im well aware of the fact that you're your own deity, what's exactly wrong with having your own avatar help you out

[Puke]

Uh, you are right.

[OldTrees1]

New question :
Is there any limitation regarding the maximum enhancement bonus I could reach with the FORTIFY seed ?

If I remember well, the max enhancement available on a magic item is ECL / 3. But I may be wrong, and I don't know if this rule applies to epic spells.

Yes there is a limit, but the only limit is the limit imposed by the spellcraft DCs. With just the enhancement bonus, it costs +8DC to get +1 spellcraft.

So there is no level based hardcap but it does have diminishing returns unless you have lots of variants of it (I showed the case of 2 variants)

[Puke]

Yes there is a limit, but the only limit is the limit imposed by the spellcraft DCs. With just the enhancement bonus, it costs +8DC to get +1 spellcraft.

So there is no level based hardcap but it does have diminishing returns unless you have lots of variants of it (I showed the case of 2 variants)

Wow. Still, this means I'm totally OP. I can temporarly boost every ability score to amazing amounts.
Someone can still try to dispel the buffs but I managed to get a lot of backup against such things (automatic counter spell, automatic dispel, contingent counterspell, warding against disjunction, miracle, wish, dispel magic and counterspell).

I still cry if I'm entering an antimagic field...

[tyckspoon]

Thanks to everyone.



The question is : how do I craft a +30 competence bonus item ? (The god of creation is my ally si I don't need any feat, but I don't know where you find how to craft a +30 comp item in the rules).
Since our DM said no item can have more than +12 enhancement bonus (as creation price), but there might be exceptions to this rule.
Non epic items have a maximum of +5 enhancement, and epic items a maximum of +12 (even if the epic level handbook has a char for items beyond +12)

EDIT 2 :
Ok I'm searching in the book.

EDIT : Oh, right. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm
Looks like competence bonus is not enhancement bonus, and as such, is not limited in the same way.
But still, how do I know if I can put any other bonus to my item ?

Let's assume I ask the god of creation to craft me a ring with +30 competence bonus to spellcraft ( 90 000 golds value). What is the enhancement bonus of my ring ?
I don't know If my point if very clear so here is an exemple :

A sword of frost has a +1 enhancement bonus to determine the total market price.

So, I could add a total of +5 enhancement bonus in total for a non epic weapon.

The rules states an item is not epic as long as the competence bonus is lesser than +30.
But does it means I can put a competence bonus AND a +5 enhancement bonus on the ring ?


Skill bonus items don't work that way. That's.. the short version of it. Longer version: The 'enhancement bonus' is a thing for weapons and armor. Skill bonus items are not weapons and armor; they don't care what their effective enhancement bonus is any more than you ask what the enhancement bonus is for a wand, staff, or pair of Boots of Speed.

Competence is the only bonus type provided for in the magic item guidelines, so changing that to something else is wanging square into Ask Your DM territory; there's no Skill Bonus (Other) like there is for some of the other bonus types. There is, however, an Artificer Infusion that changes the type of bonus provided by a magic item; you could attempt to mimic it with Limited Wish and so turn 4 +30 Competence items into a +30 Enhancement, +30 Luck, etc bonus. It's only a 10 minute/level duration, but you can Extend that and you have enough caster level that you'll get at least several hours worth from it. Should be enough time to prep for whatever excessively high DC spell you need.

Note as a god of magic you should be well situated to acquire casting-capable minions, so for certain spells (like long-term stat buffs) you can make use of Ritual Casting for DC reduction. Simulacra, Summon Monster for monster allies with native spellcasting, Planar Binding/Planar Ally/the various Dragon calling spells, your own mortal worshipers.. note that this one can get out of hand pretty badly, so you'll have to work with your DM so as to determine what a 'reasonable' amount of DC reduction is.

Edit: What are your Salient Divine Abiliies? There's a few really silly things you can do with a couple of them, particularly Alter Reality (your DM would have to be crazy to let you have this, but if you do, it's basically the Divine Win Button) and Arcane Mastery, which more or less lets you spontaneously invent new spells.

[Puke]

Skill bonus items don't work that way. That's.. the short version of it. Longer version: The 'enhancement bonus' is a thing for weapons and armor. Skill bonus items are not weapons and armor; they don't care what their effective enhancement bonus is any more than you ask what the enhancement bonus is for a wand, staff, or pair of Boots of Speed.

Competence is the only bonus type provided for in the magic item guidelines, so changing that to something else is wanging square into Ask Your DM territory; there's no Skill Bonus (Other) like there is for some of the other bonus types. There is, however, an Artificer Infusion that changes the type of bonus provided by a magic item; you could attempt to mimic it with Limited Wish and so turn 4 +30 Competence items into a +30 Enhancement, +30 Luck, etc bonus. It's only a 10 minute/level duration, but you can Extend that and you have enough caster level that you'll get at least several hours worth from it. Should be enough time to prep for whatever excessively high DC spell you need.

Note as a god of magic you should be well situated to acquire casting-capable minions, so for certain spells (like long-term stat buffs) you can make use of Ritual Casting for DC reduction. Simulacra, Summon Monster for monster allies with native spellcasting, Planar Binding/Planar Ally/the various Dragon calling spells, your own mortal worshipers.. note that this one can get out of hand pretty badly, so you'll have to work with your DM so as to determine what a 'reasonable' amount of DC reduction is.

Edit: What are your Salient Divine Abiliies? There's a few really silly things you can do with a couple of them, particularly Alter Reality (your DM would have to be crazy to let you have this, but if you do, it's basically the Divine Win Button) and Arcane Mastery, which more or less lets you spontaneously invent new spells.

Thank you for your help.
I have a lot of good minions :
7 Zulkirs
7 Followers lvl 18
Karsus (he is not my minion, but I brought him back from the death and he is my dear friend now)
Every Archwizard managing my temples.

I also crafted a spellpool like : http://www.realmshelps.net/charbuild/classes/prestige/realms/guildwizard.shtml

Spellpool (Sp): Beginning at 2nd level, members of the Watchful Order of Magists and Protectors can call 1st-through 3rd-level spells from a common source known as a spellpool. At 6th level, they may call up to 6th-level spells from the spellpool, and at 10th level they may call spells of up to 9th level from the spellpool.

The pool is filled by the spellcasters worshiping me.

My SDA :
1 Alter Reality
2 Arcane Mastery
3 Avatar
4 Create Object
5 Create Greater Object
6 Divine Creation
7 Divine Skill Focus Spellcraft (+18+10)
8 Divine Skill Focus K: Arcana (18+10)
9 Divine Spellcasting
10 See magic
11 Spontaneous wizard spells
12 POwer of Luck
13 Rejuvenation
14 Divine Blessing
15 Know Secrets
16 Divine Blast
17 ClearSight
18 NA
19 NA
20 NA
21 NA
22 NA
23 NA

My DM sees alter reality as follows :
"You can alter reality, but the more you do, the more risk you take. If you abuse this power, you may trigger unexpected consequences. Stay reasonable or be ready to assume the consequences."

Additionnal infos :
Domains (100% under my control) : Magic, Knowledge, Sun, Charm, Community, Madness

[Puke]

Hey.

So I was reading again your tips and you told me about Arcane mastery. It is precisely why my DM let me craft instantly epic spells (even if I'm not lvl 21).

and, btw, I have 20 outsider hit dices, but I never quite got what It means.
To me this grands :

Per hit die :
8 Hps + Con modifier
Skill cap increase and more skill points
Plus :
Darkvision out to 60 feet.
Unlike most other living creatures, an outsider does not have a dual nature—its soul and body form one unit. When an outsider is slain, no soul is set loose. Spells that restore souls to their bodies, such as raise dead, reincarnate, and resurrection, don’t work on an outsider. It takes a different magical effect, such as limited wish, wish, miracle, or true resurrection to restore it to life. An outsider with the native subtype can be raised, reincarnated, or resurrected just as other living creatures can be.
Proficient with all simple and martial weapons and any weapons mentioned in its entry.
Proficient with whatever type of armor (light, medium, or heavy) it is described as wearing, as well as all lighter types. Outsiders not indicated as wearing armor are not proficient with armor. Outsiders are proficient with shields if they are proficient with any form of armor.
Outsiders breathe, but do not need to eat or sleep (although they can do so if they wish). Native outsiders breathe, eat, and sleep.


And voila.

But... I don't gain any feat... right... ?

[Gildedragon]

Mundane: spellcraft tool (item of legend) for a +10 circumstance bonus

Q: as god of magic why not early entry into Mystic Theurge (with archivist (wiz 2, archivist 1; sanctum spell) ) and then go epic MT?

[Puke]

Mundane: spellcraft tool (item of legend) for a +10 circumstance bonus

Q: as god of magic why not early entry into Mystic Theurge (with archivist (wiz 2, archivist 1; sanctum spell) ) and then go epic MT?

Are you asking me why I'm straight 20 wizard ?
- Myrddin became a god. He ascended. He wanted to be an epic Wizard doing wizard things as Sun Elves Wizards do because they are better than anyone (so they think).


Or are you asking me if I may consider taking levels of MT later ?

Thanks for the item.

[Gildedragon]

Are you asking me why I'm straight 20 wizard ?
Or are you asking me if I may consider taking levels of MT later ?

Thanks for the item.

Why pure wizard when divine spell access would make sense (odd that clerics of you can cast spells one can't)

Aaaand your edit ninjaed me.

[Puke]

Yes, it's a pure roleplay matter.
My character fled his family to became the best wizard on the world. He wanted to prove everyone Corellon was a scumbag and that elves did not even need him.
So he managed to become a god when Corellon fled the greatest danger of the universe.

[The_Jette]

Hey.

So I was reading again your tips and you told me about Arcane mastery. It is precisely why my DM let me craft instantly epic spells (even if I'm not lvl 21).

and, btw, I have 20 outsider hit dices, but I never quite got what It means.
To me this grands :

Per hit die :
8 Hps + Con modifier
Skill cap increase and more skill points
Plus :
Darkvision out to 60 feet.
Unlike most other living creatures, an outsider does not have a dual nature—its soul and body form one unit. When an outsider is slain, no soul is set loose. Spells that restore souls to their bodies, such as raise dead, reincarnate, and resurrection, don’t work on an outsider. It takes a different magical effect, such as limited wish, wish, miracle, or true resurrection to restore it to life. An outsider with the native subtype can be raised, reincarnated, or resurrected just as other living creatures can be.
Proficient with all simple and martial weapons and any weapons mentioned in its entry.
Proficient with whatever type of armor (light, medium, or heavy) it is described as wearing, as well as all lighter types. Outsiders not indicated as wearing armor are not proficient with armor. Outsiders are proficient with shields if they are proficient with any form of armor.
Outsiders breathe, but do not need to eat or sleep (although they can do so if they wish). Native outsiders breathe, eat, and sleep.


And voila.

But... I don't gain any feat... right... ?

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineRanksAndPowers.htm

That's a link that shows what your Divine Ranks and Powers are. To answer your question about feats, you should gain 7 more feats for the extra 20 outsider hd you gain, in addition to the Salient abilities for divine ranks.

[Puke]

About the outsider HDs :
- I acquired these HDs AFTER my level 20. Does this means I can take epic feats as if i were 21+ ?

[noob]

Well since you had class levels when you gained the 20 hd you were an epic character for the 20 last hd and so they provided epic feats.
So you have a lot of epic feats.(being epic is when you have a non 0 amount of class levels and that your ecl is 21 or more)