D&D Adventurers Replace the Fellowship of the Ring (LotR)

[ColorBlindNinja]

What if instead of Aragorn, Legolas, Gimli, and Boromir accompanying Frodo and friends, 4 D&D adventurers were dispatched instead?

Six different scenarios for each tier:

Tier 6: Truenamer, Samurai, Divine Mind, Aristocrat.

Tier 5: Fighter, Healer, Ninja, Paladin.

Tier 4: Barbarian, Rogue, Warmage, Adept.

Tier 3: Psychic Warrior, Beguiler, Bard, Crusader.

Tier 2: Psion, Sorcerer, Spirit Shaman, Favored Soul.

Tier 1: Wizard, Cleric, Druid, Artificer

They start at level 1. Assume mid to high PO for each group. (Yeah, I'm aware the position of some classes might change because of this.)

Can each party successfully complete the War of the Ring? I eagerly await your responses.

Edit: Spells and effects that depend on other planes of existence function normally.

[Karl Aegis]

The Tier 4 party has the hardest time accomplishing the task because they didn't get the classes with invisibility, flight, pegasi, shadow walk, gate or teleports.

[legomaster00156]

Obviously, any class with teleportation just sequence-breaks outright once the option is available, unless this is (as is likely by the setting) an E6 campaign.

[ColorBlindNinja]

It's not an E6 campaign, but by the time most classes get long ranged teleport abilities, I think that nothing in the setting would be able to stop them anyway.

[legomaster00156]

"Nothing in the setting being able to challenge them" pretty much implies that the rest of the world is operating on E6 rules. :smallconfused:

[ColorBlindNinja]

"Nothing in the setting being able to challenge them" pretty much implies that the rest of the world is operating on E6 rules. :smallconfused:

Sorry, I thought you meant the adventurers themselves were using E6.

What I meant was that most of Lord of the Rings isn't strong enough to stand up to PCs of that level. The Valar might be CR 6+, but I doubt much else is.

I apologize for any confusion.

[Tainted_Scholar]

In the books, the first combat encounter that the Fellowship had was against a pack of wolves, IIRC. The adventurers should be able to clear that with relative ease. Unfortunately, that won't give them enough XP to level up, so they'll still be 1st level when they reach Moria. Moria might give them some trouble, but they could make it out alive. After that they'll have a much easier time.

In the movies, the first combat encounter the Fellowship had was against the Watcher in the Water. The adventurers should be able to rescue Frodo and escape just like the Fellowship did. Once in Moria however they'll face a far more dangerous encounter than in the books. The troll combined with the orcs could very easily kill the tier 5/6 parties, the tier 4 party is also likely to die. But if they do survive, they'll get a boatload of XP, and their chances of survival skyrocket.

[GilesTheCleric]

Do you mean for the four adventurers to eventually leave the hobbits as per the story, or do they get their own freewill?

[ColorBlindNinja]

In the books, the first combat encounter that the Fellowship had was against a pack of wolves, IIRC. The adventurers should be able to clear that with relative ease. Unfortunately, that won't give them enough XP to level up, so they'll still be 1st level when they reach Moria. Moria might give them some trouble, but they could make it out alive. After that they'll have a much easier time.

In the movies, the first combat encounter the Fellowship had was against the Watcher in the Water. The adventurers should be able to rescue Frodo and escape just like the Fellowship did. Once in Moria however they'll face a far more dangerous encounter than in the books. The troll combined with the orcs could very easily kill the tier 5/6 parties, the tier 4 party is also likely to die. But if they do survive, they'll get a boatload of XP, and their chances of survival skyrocket.

I largely agree with your analysis. Would the troll be that tough?

I wonder how the lower tiers would fair in the rest of the adventure. I think the higher tier parties have this in the bag.


Do you mean for the four adventurers to eventually leave the hobbits as per the story, or do they get their own freewill?

They get their own free will. Just to clarify, these PCs aren't chaotic stupid. They won't backstab each because they can or randomly kill important NPCs.

[Tainted_Scholar]

I largely agree with your analysis. Would the troll be that tough?


It's mostly the troll in conjunction with the orcs. They could probably beat the troll if it were all by itself.

[ColorBlindNinja]

It's mostly the troll in conjunction with the orcs. They could probably the troll if it were all by itself.

I see what you're saying.

I wonder how they would fair at the battle of Helm's Deep. They would be higher level then.

[Ellrin]

At some point early on one of them takes the ring from Frodo, because let's be honest, these are PCs, and PCs tend to believe they can get away with a lot, and that they're entitled to all the magical loot they can carry.

At which point the story ends because we're talking very low level PCs with a very high DC, very frequently repeating mind-affecting save or the world is doomed effect.

[An Enemy Spy]

Are these new characters supplanting the LotR ones, or we turning Tolkein's characters into D&D classes?

[Azoth]

I imagine for several groups avoiding or surviving the Ring Wraiths would present it's own issues.

Most adventurers would also kill Golem/Schmegul without a second thought. He isn't particularly tough, and once they survive his first treacherous act...he'd be dead and there goes the guide into Mordor.

There are a lot of points where typical parties would opt to fight instead of trying diplomatic actions that could result in a very different story or even a TPK.

Let's not forget if the don't have Gandalf, that Balrog is going to be the end of the tale if they make it past the troll. Balors are molded after them, and that is not a enable fight for low level scrubs.

[Gildedragon]

The kobold wizard kills the nazgul, probably.

The party probably chucks the one ring into a bag of holding, into another BoH into their haversacks... they then forget about the ring and go off into the southern lands.

They probably skip Moira because they'd have nondetection on... or they just endure elements through the mountain crossing.

[ColorBlindNinja]

At some point early on one of them takes the ring from Frodo, because let's be honest, these are PCs, and PCs tend to believe they can get away with a lot, and that they're entitled to all the magical loot they can carry.

At which point the story ends because we're talking very low level PCs with a very high DC, very frequently repeating mind-affecting save or the world is doomed effect.

Protection from Evil would shield them in that case.


Are these new characters supplanting the LotR ones, or we turning Tolkein's characters into D&D classes?

The new characters supplanted the Lord of the Rings ones.


I imagine for several groups avoiding or surviving the Ring Wraiths would present it's own issues.

Most adventurers would also kill Golem/Schmegul without a second thought. He isn't particularly tough, and once they survive his first treacherous act...he'd be dead and there goes the guide into Mordor.

There are a lot of points where typical parties would opt to fight instead of trying diplomatic actions that could result in a very different story or even a TPK.

Let's not forget if the don't have Gandalf, that Balrog is going to be the end of the tale if they make it past the troll. Balors are molded after them, and that is not a enable fight for low level scrubs.

Gandalf is still there. Balrog aside, what other fights seriously threaten them?

[Jay R]

Just saw that Gandalf is still there. Corrections added.

[Additional overview: A party with a high-level Ranger, a high-level human fighter, an elven archer with hundreds or thousands of years of experience, and a dwarf with decades of experience routinely find themselves fleeing, or barely surviving encounters. A low-level party cannot survive this.

First levels probably don't survive the cold at Caradhras. They probably don't have anybody who can run on top of the snow and discover the way back down, as Legolas did. Correction: They survive the first night. I still question who can do what Legolas did, which was crucial to their survival.

The summoned "great host of Wargs" would almost undoubtedly kill a first level party at the first encounter. There is no reason to believe there's a limit to how many could be summoned. [Yes, they are summoned. Their bodies aren't found the next morning. This cause Gandalf to say, "It is as I feared. These were no ordinary wolves hunting for food in the wilderness."] The wolves were deadly enough to scare a party containing a high-level ranger, a high-level Human Fighter, a mid-to-high level dwarf Fighter, and elven archer with (at least) hundreds of years of experience, and a high level angel, to run for Moria. Correction: Gandalf saves them again. The players start complaining about the DMPC getting all the fun.

Unless the players can solve the "mellon" riddle, the campaign stops dead at the gates of Moria. Correction: Gandlaf solves this. Complaints get louder.

Do they still have an angel with thousands of years of knowledge and ability with them? Nothing less could get them past the balrog. [Correction: Gandalf solves this, but the DM gives in to player complaints, and gets rid of him.]

[Addition: Average D&D players make their PCs so insulting to the elves that they get kicked out without boats.]

Without a critical hit rule with an instant kill, nobody could kill the nazgul's mount on the Anduin like Legolas did, and there would be a TPK. Remember that that shot came from an archer with hundreds or thousands of years of experience.

The Uruk-hai should be able to swarm over a low-level party above the Rauros falls.

Will the DM provide a DMPC who will safely guide them away from the black gate, through the Dead Marshes, through half of Ithilien, around Minas Ithil and up to Cirth Ungol before betraying them?

Sam shouldn't be able to rescue Frodo from a large group of orcs by himself, and the revolt that made it possible would look ridiculous if described by a DM with less storytelling expertise than Tolkien.

There is only one way that a starting party has any chance in this scenario, and that can be found in Gandalf's words to Frodo. "Behind that there was something else at work, beyond any design of the Ring-maker. I can put it no plainer than by saying that Bilbo was meant to find the Ring, and not by its maker. In which case you also were meant to have it. And that may be an encouraging thought."

If you believe that he means that the DM wants this to happen, and will continually rule to keep the party alive through a long string of CR-inappropriate encounters, then that could certainly happen.

In short, the rules of D&D simply do not match the parameters of this scenario - or almost any other literary scenario. The basic literary formula is "a compelling character strives against great odds to achieve a worthy goal." The essence of 3.5e CR-levels is that characters never strive against great odds.

[Ellrin]

Protection from Evil would shield them in that case.


Most classes don't have access to protection from evil without wands, and there aren't a lot of wand shops scattered around Middle Earth. Even if the party does have access to the spell, or even a wand, it's a one minute/level effect that protects a single person. We've seen in the books that the Will saves are pretty frequent, happen at unpredictable or inconvenient times, and can affect multiple people simultaneously. There's just no way a low-level four man party could successfully protect themselves from that sort of effect for long, at least not using that spell.

[ColorBlindNinja]

Most classes don't have access to protection from evil without wands, and there aren't a lot of wand shops scattered around Middle Earth. Even if the party does have access to the spell, or even a wand, it's a one minute/level effect that protects a single person. We've seen in the books that the Will saves are pretty frequent, happen at unpredictable or inconvenient times, and can affect multiple people simultaneously. There's just no way a low-level four man party could successfully protect themselves from that sort of effect for long, at least not using that spell.

How frequent would these will saves actually be? I only recall a handful of examples where they might be necessary.

Why do you assume the DCs would be high?

Magical Circle lasts 10 times as long, and Frodo is likely not going to be present for huge chunks of the adventure.

[Tainted_Scholar]

At some point early on one of them takes the ring from Frodo, because let's be honest, these are PCs, and PCs tend to believe they can get away with a lot, and that they're entitled to all the magical loot they can carry.

At which point the story ends because we're talking very low level PCs with a very high DC, very frequently repeating mind-affecting save or the world is doomed effect.

Um no, they're not going to steal the Ring because they were at the council of Elrond and know that taking it for their own would be a bad idea.


[Additional overview: A party with a high-level Ranger, a high-level human fighter, an elven archer with hundreds or thousands of years of experience, and a dwarf with decades of experience routinely find themselves fleeing, or barely surviving encounters. A low-level party cannot survive this.

Being old doesn't make them high level. Do you have any evidence to show why they should be high level apart from their age?


They survive the first night. I still question who can do what Legolas did, which was crucial to their survival.

Trudging through the snow would only take them a few minutes to scout, heavy snow takes 4 squares of movement to move through. Also the 1st tier party Wizard could just have his familiar fly over the snow, or melt it with reserve feats.


The summoned "great host of Wargs" would almost undoubtedly kill a first level party at the first encounter. There is no reason to believe there's a limit to how many could be summoned.

If there was no limit to how many could be summoned then why didn't they just Zerg rush the Fellowship?


The wolves were deadly enough to scare a party containing a high-level ranger, a high-level Human Fighter, a mid-to-high level dwarf Fighter, and elven archer with (at least) hundreds of years of experience, and a high level angel, to run for Moria.

There was nothing to indicate that the Wargs were tougher than normal wolves. In fact they didn't even realise that they weren't wolves until the bodies disappeared. The adventurers could easily fight off a pack of wolves.


Correction: Gandalf saves them again. The players start complaining about the DMPC getting all the fun.

I really don't think they're will be PCs, this seems more like we're just replacing the preexisting characters with new ones. Their personalities will probably change because of different mental scores, but not that much will be different.


[Addition: Average D&D players make their PCs so insulting to the elves that they get kicked out without boats.]

See my above response.


Without a critical hit rule with an instant kill, nobody could kill the nazgul's mount on the Anduin like Legolas did, and there would be a TPK. Remember that that shot came from an archer with hundreds or thousands of years of experience.

Again, old doesn't mean high level.

Additionally, we don't know how far away the Nazgul was so we don't know how hard the shot was to make.

Any group with ranged options could probably take it down IMO.


The Uruk-hai should be able to swarm over a low-level party above the Rauros falls.

Why? By this point the Adventures should be closer to level 3-4, there's no reason to assume that they would lose. The Uraks aren't very strong or skilled, they were only described as being as strong as men. The party should be able to fight them off.

[CharonsHelper]

It's mostly the troll in conjunction with the orcs. They could probably beat the troll if it were all by itself.

I will say - in D&D terms it might be better portrayed as an ogre since they don't have any regeneration etc.

[ColorBlindNinja]

I will say - in D&D terms it might be better portrayed as an ogre since they don't have any regeneration etc.

That would be the closest approximately, but I would prefer not to use the D&D counterparts for LotR monsters whenever possible.

[khadgar567]

tier 1 and 2 crew probably wins with less problem cuz we dont have in fo for 6 second banish record for balrog chan and lets not forget this quest needed best of the best mooks and kinda major deus ex machina to succeed and classic dnd parties equal to them at least pops bator for daily grind long before legolas hit diapers and we have artificer on tier one i dont know what fix you use but it means either hordeficer or wandificer in the quest so a) team has more man power then regular cast b) But master you're in luck, 'cause up your sleeves You've got a brand of magic never fails you got You've got some power in your corner now! Some heavy ammunition in your camp! You got some punch, pizzaz, yahoo and how. See, all you do is craft and pooooooooooooooooooooooooooof did i turn balrog into bunny stew

[Malimar]

The party probably chucks the one ring into a bag of holding, into another BoH into their haversacks... they then forget about the ring and go off into the southern lands.
Sending the lich's phylactery to a random spot on the Astral Plane where it can never be found doesn't sound like a good plan to me.

[Tainted_Scholar]

Sending the lich's phylactery to a random spot on the Astral Plane where it can never be found doesn't sound like a good plan to me.

But then Sauron can't get the ring and the adventurers can just grind until they're high enough level to kill Sauron themselves.

[Gildedragon]

Sending the lich's phylactery to a random spot on the Astral Plane where it can never be found doesn't sound like a good plan to me.

There is no BoH into Portahole action going on. Just BoH into BoH into HH

[ColorBlindNinja]

There is no BoH into Portahole action going on. Just BoH into BoH into HH

In all fairness, the adventurers may have some difficulty obtaining a bag of holding in the first place.

[Vizzerdrix]

If they have access to shapesand, any group will turn the walk into a stroll through the park.

[Coidzor]

Sending the lich's phylactery to a random spot on the Astral Plane where it can never be found doesn't sound like a good plan to me.

Considering Middle Earth probably doesn't have an Astral Plane, it probably just doesn't work or sends it out to Iluvatar outside of Middle Earth, who might be mildly confused by that happening.

At any rate, as the higher end parties level, they can eventually gank Sauron's current, weakened form outright and take out his armies. It'd actually be better if Sauron were a Lich, because then he'd be kicked out of Middle Earth forever after forcibly discorporating him once. As it is, I believe he gets weaker each time he dies, especially without the ring.


"Nothing in the setting being able to challenge them" pretty much implies that the rest of the world is operating on E6 rules. :smallconfused:

There's some dragons, all weaker than Smaug, some are actually more like Drakes or Linnorms in D&D terms.

There's the Nazgul and their flying... Fell beasts?

Oliphants, Olog-hai super trolls.

Human sorcerers, whatever those can do.

Sauron, in much weaker form than the last time a middle earth style magic blade that was already broken cut off his ring finger.

Wargs. *Maybe* a werewolf or two.

Shelob. Barrow Wights. That evil tree in that old forest near the Shire.

Discounting the friendly were-bears and Ents and Tom Bombadil.

[Tiri]

sends it out to Iluvatar outside of Middle Earth, who might be mildly confused by that happening.

No reason he should be.

[Durzan]

Stick the One Ring in a bag of holding, and drop that bag of holding into a Portable Hole while still at Elrond's place. Ancient Evil vanquished in record time.

[ColorBlindNinja]

Considering Middle Earth probably doesn't have an Astral Plane, it probably just doesn't work or sends it out to Iluvatar outside of Middle Earth, who might be mildly confused by that .

That reminds me, I forgot to mention that spells and effects that depend on other planes of existence still function normally. I'll edit the OP accordingly.

[Coidzor]

No reason he should be.

I mean, even an omniscient being can wonder how those D&D characters ended up in their setting ex nihilo or the exact shakedown of unknown interactions between different cosmologies.

[Tainted_Scholar]

I mean, even an omniscient being can wonder how those D&D characters ended up in their setting ex nihilo or the exact shakedown of unknown interactions between different cosmologies.

That's not how omniscience works.

[ColorBlindNinja]

I mean, even an omniscient being can wonder how those D&D characters ended up in their setting ex nihilo or the exact shakedown of unknown interactions between different cosmologies.

Eh, a wizard did it.

[Tainted_Scholar]

Why don't they just pull a Sphere of Annihilation out of a spell components pouch and then toss the Ring into it?:smalltongue:

(TO, I know.)

[Tiri]

I mean, even an omniscient being can wonder how those D&D characters ended up in their setting ex nihilo or the exact shakedown of unknown interactions between different cosmologies.

No. He can't. There is nothing an omniscient being does not know.

[Gildedragon]

A high level party can spam disjunction on the ring. Or use it as a component for apocalypse from the sky.

[Tainted_Scholar]

A high level party can spam disjunction on the ring. Or use it as a component for apocalypse from the sky.

Doesn't Apocalypse from the Sky require a good artifact?

[ColorBlindNinja]

Doesn't Apocalypse from the Sky require a good artifact?

No, it just typically is a good artifact. It doesn't need to be.

[legomaster00156]

Here, let's make it interesting and discount the T1 and T2 classes. In fact, let's focus on how the T6 and T5 parties can succeed.

[ColorBlindNinja]

Here, let's make it interesting and discount the T1 and T2 classes. In fact, let's focus on how the T6 and T5 parties can succeed.

I think that even the slightest bit of bad luck will spell doom for the tier 5/6 parties at low levels.

[Tainted_Scholar]

Here, let's make it interesting and discount the T1 and T2 classes. In fact, let's focus on how the T6 and T5 parties can succeed.

I'm fairly certain that the T6 party will die.

[ColorBlindNinja]

I'm fairly certain that the T6 party will die.

I think that depends. If they manage to survive until level 6 or so, they should be in the clear. More or less.

[Coidzor]

A Truenamer actually does get better at Truenaming its enemies(but not its allies) as it levels. So if the party can outlevel the CR of foes they'll face, eventually the Truenamer will be quite formidable at debuffing one or two enemies at a time, IIRC.

You'd need someone who basically memorized how Truenamers work or maybe to read over the Truenamer Handbook to recall exactly what they can do, of course.

If they make it to level 17, then Gate means they win and they can chain-gate Solars until there's enough to easily genocide every orc, goblin, troll, balrog, dragon, or any other more exotic monsters in the world. A single Solar could probably forcibly discorporate Sauron, for that matter, or maybe employ one of those methods for permanently containing a foe without actually killing them.

Not sure what would give them enough XP to get past level 14, and that from hunting Oliphants, though. I suppose they could start taking on entire Mobs of Trolls for something. After a certain point they'd be able to farm the respawning Nazgul for XP, I suppose. Not sure what that would be.

Hmm. Can the Divine Mind (eventually) provide a source of Quintessence? Slathering the One Ring in that would help a lot. And building up a supply of it would be a great way to deal with putting Sauron and his Nazgul on ice.


What if instead of Aragorn, Legolas, Gimli, and Boromir accompanying Frodo and friends, 4 D&D adventurers were dispatched instead?

Question, when do they begin accompanying the Hobbits? Is one of them the sole thing getting them from Bree to Rivendell and then the other three join them? Are they with the hobbits from the beginning in the Shire? Did the Hobbits make it to Rivendell by themselves and all 4 join them there?


Tier 6: Truenamer, Samurai, Divine Mind, Aristocrat.

Well, eventually the Samurai and Aristocrat will be able to tank any hits that the orcs and trolls of the world can dish out, and I suppose the Samurai can Takahashi no Onisan it up and scare anything and everything into quivering in fear before him while the Aristocrat coup de graces them.

I can't remember exactly when this combo really kicks off, but I suppose they may get some saps and pull this routine in the Shire or Bree and just knock out entire taverns worth of people for that sweet, sweet XP. By the time the Nazgul roll up to try to get the hobbits in Bree, they just see a tavern full of people groggily coming to after being scared half to death and then knocked out.


Tier 5: Fighter, Healer, Ninja, Paladin.

Ok, so no Zhentarim Fighter or Dungeoncrasher for T5 Fighter, IIRC. So the Fighter isn't particularly interesting, can be either ranged focused or just hit things really hard. Probably want to pick up Martial Study feats.

Paladin will almost certainly want to trade out for some kind of Celestial Pegasus mount as the earliest opportunity and have fun charging some Fellbeasts with his lance, and Smite Evil is probably going to come in handy against Nazgul.


Tier 4: Barbarian, Rogue, Warmage, Adept.

Well, we'd be able to finally answer the question, how do Nazgul feel when you throw a fireball at them and their horses when they're massed together?

How are Nazgul against a guy who gets angry and lifts the horse that they're riding on up and chucks them both into a river?


Tier 3: Psychic Warrior, Beguiler, Bard, Crusader.

After about level 5 or so, the Psychic Warrior and Crusader would be able to take out all of the Mines of Moria except for the Balrog and they'd probably be something the Balrog wouldn't enjoy. At some point between level 7 and level 10, I'm reasonably confident that the two of them could take on entire armies by themselves, although it'd take a bit of time.


Tier 2: Psion, Sorcerer, Spirit Shaman, Favored Soul.

The Psion probably does the most heavy lifting here, though the others all help.

Getting past Level 1 would be a bit trickier, as they're a lot more limited in terms of having a limited amount of mojo per day and no meatshields.


Tier 1: Wizard, Cleric, Druid, Artificer

Well, they're all but guaranteed magic items, and will probably hole up in Rivendell and Lothlorien for as long as they can taking care of that. The Druid amasses an army of animal friends. The Wizard destroys the ring once he gets Planar Binding and can get a celestial with Greater Teleport at-will and can put Magic Circle Against Evil on the celestial.

Sauron didn't expect a handful of hobbits to sneak in past Shelob and walk up to Mount Doom. He's going to be even more shocked when an angel appears out of nowhere, tosses the ring into the lava, and then teleports back out.

A wand of Fireball or even just casting a few of them might actually cause the uruk-hai to break and rout.



I think the main commonality is that they're probably going to pick more fights, some of them may try to bushwhack a Nazgul if it seems to be alone.

The Mines of Moria and the various battles will probably feel like they're being shorted, as they can only get enough XP to level once and then almost level a second time in one sitting, IIRC. Of course, a single point of XP after leveling would get them another level on top of that.

[ColorBlindNinja]

A Truenamer actually does get better at Truenaming its enemies(but not its allies) as it levels. So if the party can outlevel the CR of foes they'll face, eventually the Truenamer will be quite formidable at debuffing one or two enemies at a time, IIRC.

You'd need someone who basically memorized how Truenamers work or maybe to read over the Truenamer Handbook to recall exactly what they can do, of course.

If they make it to level 17, then Gate means they win and they can chain-gate Solars until there's enough to easily genocide every orc, goblin, troll, balrog, dragon, or any other more exotic monsters in the world. A single Solar could probably forcibly discorporate Sauron, for that matter, or maybe employ one of those methods for permanently containing a foe without actually killing them.

Not sure what would give them enough XP to get past level 14, and that from hunting Oliphants, though. I suppose they could start taking on entire Mobs of Trolls for something. After a certain point they'd be able to farm the respawning Nazgul for XP, I suppose. Not sure what that would be.

Hmm. Can the Divine Mind (eventually) provide a source of Quintessence? Slathering the One Ring in that would help a lot. And building up a supply of it would be a great way to deal with putting Sauron and his Nazgul on ice.

Sadly, Truenamers don't get Gate until level 20.

The Divine Mind can get Quintessence if she takes the Expanded Knowledge feat.

[ColorBlindNinja]

Question, when do they begin accompanying the Hobbits? Is one of them the sole thing getting them from Bree to Rivendell and then the other three join them? Are they with the hobbits from the beginning in the Shire? Did the Hobbits make it to Rivendell by themselves and all 4 join them there?



Well, eventually the Samurai and Aristocrat will be able to tank any hits that the orcs and trolls of the world can dish out, and I suppose the Samurai can Takahashi no Onisan it up and scare anything and everything into quivering in fear before him while the Aristocrat coup de graces them.

I can't remember exactly when this combo really kicks off, but I suppose they may get some saps and pull this routine in the Shire or Bree and just knock out entire taverns worth of people for that sweet, sweet XP. By the time the Nazgul roll up to try to get the hobbits in Bree, they just see a tavern full of people groggily coming to after being scared half to death and then knocked out.



Ok, so no Zhentarim Fighter or Dungeoncrasher for T5 Fighter, IIRC. So the Fighter isn't particularly interesting, can be either ranged focused or just hit things really hard. Probably want to pick up Martial Study feats.

Paladin will almost certainly want to trade out for some kind of Celestial Pegasus mount as the earliest opportunity and have fun charging some Fellbeasts with his lance, and Smite Evil is probably going to come in handy against Nazgul.



Well, we'd be able to finally answer the question, how do Nazgul feel when you throw a fireball at them and their horses when they're massed together?

How are Nazgul against a guy who gets angry and lifts the horse that they're riding on up and chucks them both into a river?



After about level 5 or so, the Psychic Warrior and Crusader would be able to take out all of the Mines of Moria except for the Balrog and they'd probably be something the Balrog wouldn't enjoy. At some point between level 7 and level 10, I'm reasonably confident that the two of them could take on entire armies by themselves, although it'd take a bit of time.



The Psion probably does the most heavy lifting here, though the others all help.

Getting past Level 1 would be a bit trickier, as they're a lot more limited in terms of having a limited amount of mojo per day and no meatshields.



Well, they're all but guaranteed magic items, and will probably hole up in Rivendell and Lothlorien for as long as they can taking care of that. The Druid amasses an army of animal friends. The Wizard destroys the ring once he gets Planar Binding and can get a celestial with Greater Teleport at-will and can put Magic Circle Against Evil on the celestial.

Sauron didn't expect a handful of hobbits to sneak in past Shelob and walk up to Mount Doom. He's going to be even more shocked when an angel appears out of nowhere, tosses the ring into the lava, and then teleports back out.

A wand of Fireball or even just casting a few of them might actually cause the uruk-hai to break and rout.



I think the main commonality is that they're probably going to pick more fights, some of them may try to bushwhack a Nazgul if it seems to be alone.

The Mines of Moria and the various battles will probably feel like they're being shorted, as they can only get enough XP to level once and then almost level a second time in one sitting, IIRC. Of course, a single point of XP after leveling would get them another level on top of that.

Very interesting. These are all good ideas.

The adventurers would join Frodo and friends at Rivendell.

Edit: I'm not sure how tough the Nazgul actually are, but they did seem to be afraid of fire.

[Tainted_Scholar]

Ok, so no Zhentarim Fighter or Dungeoncrasher for T5 Fighter, IIRC.

OP said that the tiers might change with optimization (At least that's what I think he meant). If that is the case then Dungeoncrasher and other variants are still on the table.

[ColorBlindNinja]

OP said that the tiers might change with optimization (At least that's what I think he meant). If that is the case then Dungeoncrasher and other variants are still on the table.

Yes, that's what I meant. I apologize for the vague wording.

Also, Favored Souls should make good front line combatants.

[tiercel]

While not a direct answer to the OP, the DM of the Rings (http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=612) screenshot-comic imagining LotR as an actual series of tabletop sessions seems... relevant. (And, of course, amusing.)

[ColorBlindNinja]

While not a direct answer to the OP, the DM of the Rings (http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=612) screenshot-comic imagining LotR as an actual series of tabletop sessions seems... relevant. (And, of course, amusing.)

I'm going to be reading this for the rest of evening now.

Wake me if the thread explodes or catches on fire.

[Starbuck_II]

Well, you can sort of imitate the Nazgul as Wraiths. Riding Nightmares.
Maybe give them vulnerability fire.
Also, most were spellcasters in former life. So they should be able to cast 1-2nd level: really hard to say how strong they were prior to changing. We can just assume a smattering 1/day's of multiple 1 or 2nd.

We know their leader was very strong caster prior to using ring. He seemed to have vulnerability to hobbit or female humanoid (as both wounded him).
This could be a way to have low CR as he has a weakness: even with 3th or 4th level spells. We can just assume a smattering 1/day's of multiple 1 or 2nd.

Sauron is basically a lich with a ring phylactery.

Ring boosts your abilities: as well as gives invisibility, etc.

[ColorBlindNinja]

Well, you can sort of imitate the Nazgul as Wraiths. Riding Nightmares.
Maybe give them vulnerability fire.
Also, most were spellcasters in former life. So they should be able to cast 1-2nd level: really hard to say how strong they were prior to changing. We can just assume a smattering 1/day's of multiple 1 or 2nd.

We know their leader was very strong caster prior to using ring. He seemed to have vulnerability to hobbit or female humanoid (as both wounded him).
This could be a way to have low CR as he has a weakness: even with 3th or 4th level spells. We can just assume a smattering 1/day's of multiple 1 or 2nd.

Sauron is basically a lich with a ring phylactery.

Ring boosts your abilities: as well as gives invisibility, etc.

The main problem with Wraiths is that they're incorporeal, Nazgul are solid.

Also, giving the villains D&D magic will throw the entire setting's power level out of wack.

[Asrrin]

I think it would help to specifically stat out each meaningful encounter that would grant XP in the trilogy and try to map it to D&D terms, and then theorycraft a party as it attempts to overcome said encounters and gain levels based upon XP gained.

[Gildedragon]

I think it would help to specifically stat out each meaningful encounter that would grant XP in the trilogy and try to map it to D&D terms, and then theorycraft a party as it attempts to overcome said encounters and gain levels based upon XP gained.

Part of the problem is they'd go a very different route from the party.
Endure elements has them probably crossing the mountain overtop
Magic misiles probably hurt the Nazgul, esp if shot from a non humanoid or non male wizard.
God knows what IHS does to the ring's corrupting influence
The orc attack at the end of fellowship: the party retreating into a rope trick might mean there's no party splitting.

Also as-if the party is letting frodo carry the ring.

[ColorBlindNinja]

I think it would help to specifically stat out each meaningful encounter that would grant XP in the trilogy and try to map it to D&D terms, and then theorycraft a party as it attempts to overcome said encounters and gain levels based upon XP gained.

The first encounter I recall was with a pack of wolves. Each wolf should be worth 300 XP or so. Ten wolves would be 750 XP per party member. That won't be enough to level up.

The Watcher in the Water is trickier. I can't recall anything that would tell us how tough it is. I doubt it's worth enough for the PCs to level up.

Next, orcs and the cave troll. LotR orcs seem to be weaker than D&D ones, let's say they're worth 1/4 CR. The troll should be worth around CR 3 or so. If they're 20 orcs then we're looking at around 600 XP per character . The adventurers should now be level 2.

[GilesTheCleric]

I tried to find a list of battles the fellowship/ hobbits fought in, but didn't turn up anything purpose-suited. This is as close as I could find (http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Battles_of_the_War_of_the_Ring).

[ColorBlindNinja]

I tried to find a list of battles the fellowship/ hobbits fought in, but didn't turn up anything purpose-suited. This is as close as I could find (http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Battles_of_the_War_of_the_Ring).

Sadly, that article seems to be a broad overview, rather than more detailed blow by blow description. I'll follow the individual links to each battle later.

Does anyone have any idea what CR the Balrog is? I feel that the adventurers should get at least a portion of XP if they assist Gandalf in driving it off.

[Tainted_Scholar]

Does anyone have any idea what CR the Balrog is? I feel that the adventurers should get at least a portion of XP if they assist Gandalf in driving it off.

A 1st-3rd level party can only get XP from CR 10 and lower encounters. So really the most important thing to determine is if it's lower than CR 10.

[ColorBlindNinja]

A 2nd level party can only get XP from CR 10 and lower encounters. So really the most important thing to determine is if it's lower than CR 10.

CR 7 sounds about right to me. I'm assuming half XP rewards since they wouldn't kill it, so 150 XP each. I'm pretty sure they're still level 2.

The Uruk-hai should be about CR 1 each, assuming 20 again, 1,500 each.

That would put them at level 3.

[Endarire]

Greetings, LotRs!

1: How would things likely change if we could change classes within a tier? For example, how would things change if the tier 3 version could use Binders? (Also assume people could pick the same class, up to a party of 4 of the same build.)

2: How would things change if we allowed multiclassing? This multiclassing is confined to classes in the same tier and all classes of any tier worse than your starting tier. (You MUST take your starting tier class at level 1.)

3: How would things change if we allowed PCs to determine character races? Aragorn in the books is human; Gimli dwarven; etc. I suspect we'd get a bunch of Warforged, especially Dragonborn Warforged if templates are allowed.

4: How would things change if we allowed PCs to take acquired templates? What about buying off level adjustment?

[ColorBlindNinja]

Greetings, LotRs!

1: How would things likely change if we could change classes within a tier? For example, how would things change if the tier 3 version could use Binders? (Also assume people could pick the same class, up to a party of 4 of the same build.)

2: How would things change if we allowed multiclassing? This multiclassing is confined to classes in the same tier and all classes of any tier worse than your starting tier. (You MUST take your starting tier class at level 1.)

3: How would things change if we allowed PCs to determine character races? Aragorn in the books is human; Gimli dwarven; etc. I suspect we'd get a bunch of Warforged, especially Dragonborn Warforged if templates are allowed.

4: How would things change if we allowed PCs to take acquired templates? What about buying off level adjustment?

- I mostly chose the classes that I did so that each character covered one of the classic party roles. I think that tiers 3-5 have the largest pools of alternate classes. I can see some flexibility issues if all characters pick the same class.

- Multiclassing is nigh essential for the lower tiers to succeed, so I don't mind that at all.

- I never intended to lock our adventurers into the same races as the original Fellowship, so other races are fine.

- I would prefer to avoid LA, but templates are acceptable.

[Zanos]

Being old doesn't make them high level. Do you have any evidence to show why they should be high level apart from their age?
Being experienced does, though. The original cast are individually all considered very accomplished combatants before the story begins. LotR in general has humans as not being insanely high powered, but I'd still peg the members of the original fellowship in the ~5th level range. Remember that a 1st level character is just getting out of their apprenticeship or training.

[Telonius]

Instead of Legolas, Gimli, Aragorn, Boromir, we get:
Truenamer, Divine Mind, Samurai, Aristocrat.

Other than Legolas/Truenamer, this would probably not be all that different from how it turned out in the books...?

On the high-tier end, I think we'd need a ruling on whether or not Retain Essence applies to Rings of Power.

[ColorBlindNinja]

On the high-tier end, I think we'd need a ruling on whether or not Retain Essence applies to Rings of Power.

RAW, I'm not sure. To keep things interesting, I'll say no, it doesn't work.