Kenku - Warlock or Rogue - or something else?

[Escribblings]

I've put a couple of char builds on the back burner for now (due to certain UA not being allowed in my games yet).

We're just getting access to Volo's - I'm quite intrigued by the Kenku. If we were allowed the Raven Queen, that would by my immediate choice, unfortunately that is not the case.

At the moment we have access to the base PHB/DMG races and classes plus the following:


UA: Revised Ranger
Elemental Evil Players Companion
UA: Waterborne Adventures
UA: Sorcerous Origins
UA: Eberron (except Action points or Dragonmarks)


I'm intrigued as where you would take the Kenku based on this?

I'm trying to work out how best t play one.

[Naanomi]

Work best as Shadow monks and trickster clerics to me. The stats line up well, and both can use the extra skills. I suppose a land Druid would be the same way

[Alimack]

I had an idea for a Kenku Old One Warlock who partially circumvents the creativity curse by copying from the bizarre happenings of the Outer Planes, and who communicates telepathically through the Awakened Mind feature. Some interesting roleplaying opportunities there I think - maybe a Pact of the Tome to represent the Kenku penchant for stealing ideas from all over.

I'm also currently nursing a Kenku Monk character - the stats are perfect, and it occurred to me that a creature with excellent mimicry might end up a competent martial artist by copying the training forms of real monks somewhere. You could then roleplay a kind of transcendental transformation whereby the stolen martial arts gradually begun to give way to genuine creativity as the Kenku, approaching enlightenment, surpasses its curse (possibly symbolised at level 13 by the Tongue of Sun and Moon, where the Kenku suddenly becomes able to communicate despite its lack of language). Also you'd get to make lots of martial arts movie references (the Kenku repeating phrases it heard in the monastery) and finish every monster off with a Crane Kick.

[Naanomi]

Yeah I imagine a kenku monk using a lot of forms and stances (tiger style! Monkey fist!) copied directly and executed perfectly... as well as quoting a lot of koan-style 'wise master' mystic witticisms.

[Arcangel4774]

Damn alimack, now I really wanna play a kenku monk

[Alimack]

Yeah I imagine a kenku monk using a lot of forms and stances (tiger style! Monkey fist!) copied directly and executed perfectly... as well as quoting a lot of koan-style 'wise master' mystic witticisms.

Yeah it seems to fit well, right? I envisaged an Open Hand monk as it seems to fit the enlightened master thing better but Shadow Monk would also be really cool - Raven Ninja as opposed to Crane Master. Just take the roleplaying a little darker, maybe quote less Jackie Chan and more Wu Tang.


Damn alimack, now I really wanna play a kenku monk

Haha me too. I've got a paladin in my only current IRL game, might have to get him killed...

[Naanomi]

Yeah it seems to fit well, right? I envisaged an Open Hand monk as it seems to fit the enlightened master thing better but Shadow Monk would also be really cool - Raven Ninja as opposed to Crane Master
Long Death is also possible... crows/ravens do have a thing for corpses after all

[Alimack]

Very true - the Carrion Monk, that'd be a nice angle to work too. You could even go Radiant Soul and set up a Phoenix/Firebird theme (although another class might work better for that - Light cleric? Sorcerer, maybe?).

[Escribblings]

Long Death is also possible... crows/ravens do have a thing for corpses after all
In general, yes. For me, no - SCAG isn't allowed yet.

[Escribblings]

I had an idea for a Kenku Old One Warlock who partially circumvents the creativity curse by copying from the bizarre happenings of the Outer Planes, and who communicates telepathically through the Awakened Mind feature. Some interesting roleplaying opportunities there I think - maybe a Pact of the Tome to represent the Kenku penchant for stealing ideas from all over.

...

This is definitely on my wish list ;)

I have made a decision - I'm going to go both!

the question is where to split and where to start...

I'm guessing rogue is a better starting class...

What features do I want?

Well, I definitely want to get Warlock to 3, but possibly 5.

If stopping at 3, then it's Tome for shillelagh - but taking Blade to 5 for the extra attack is more appealing.

Rogue wise, level 7 is where I want to be taking the assassin route I think.

So, if aiming for Rogue(Assassin) 7/ Warlock(GOO/Blade) 5 how would you do it?

I'm thinking Rogue 2, Warlock 5, Rogue 7???

[Pr6i6e6st]

Rogue. Hard to cast spells if you've never heard the verbal components before

As a DM, I wouldn't count telepathy as hearing words. You understand their thoughts in a language you understand. I personally think of verbal components as ancient words that touch the fabrics of reality, not just command words that can be spoken in any language like anime power moves. Hearing and telepathic communication are two very different things to me. You're not so much conveying words to each other as you are emotions and memories in a form. You're not hearing anything, you're merely translating brainwaves into something you can verbalize to others.

That's just my take though, you and your DM can absolutely have your own perception of this

[Escribblings]

Well I wasn't considering telepathically casting spells.

Kenku are mimics though, so it's enough to get away with hand-wavium he's heard the spells being cast and can now cast them himself.

As for the telepathy itself


Starting at 1st level, your alien knowledge gives you the ability to touch the minds of other creatures. You can communicate telepathically with any creature you can see within 30 feet of you. You don’t need to share a language with the creature for it to understand your telepathic utterances, but the creature must be able to understand at least one language.

[Corran]

This is definitely on my wish list ;)

I have made a decision - I'm going to go both!

the question is where to split and where to start...

I'm guessing rogue is a better starting class...

What features do I want?

Well, I definitely want to get Warlock to 3, but possibly 5.

If stopping at 3, then it's Tome for shillelagh - but taking Blade to 5 for the extra attack is more appealing.

Rogue wise, level 7 is where I want to be taking the assassin route I think.

So, if aiming for Rogue(Assassin) 7/ Warlock(GOO/Blade) 5 how would you do it?

I'm thinking Rogue 2, Warlock 5, Rogue 7???
Hmmm, I dont think that shillelagh is a good idea, considering your will be picking up rogue levels. Quarterstaff does not work with sneak attack, shillelagh does has some problem with action economy sometimes, and besides all that, dex is still a very useful ability as it affects quite a lot of things (and it will be super useful if you are going with assassin). So my suggestion is to not aim for shillelagh.
Personally I would suggest other the blade (for sneaking in weapns anywhere), or the familiar (for aadvantage on attacks and for scouting)

Obvious picks for invocations:
1) Mask of many faces, which will combine wonderfully with being able to mimic voices (as disguise self does not allow for altering your voice, hence why this combinations rocks).
2) Devil's sight (if you are into devil's sight + darkness shenanigans: which can profit a lot from cunning action and from a good load of sneak attack, and from BB if melee, or sharpshooter if ranged; though sharpshooter and lots of sneak attack have some issues).

Good picks for cantrips and spells:
1) Friends: Combine this with mask of many faces and the ability to mimic. Create chaos!
2) Invisibility
3) Hex (see if the DM lets you cast it without breaking stealth
(I guess there are tons of other good spells too, that I cant think of right now

Are you going melee or ranged?

[Pr6i6e6st]

Well I wasn't considering telepathically casting spells.

Kenku are mimics though, so it's enough to get away with hand-wavium he's heard the spells being cast and can now cast them himself.

As for the telepathy itself

Well no but maybe I misunderstood. I thought the idea was he could hear the words through telepathy, and be able to mimic that as though he heard it. Curses are fickle I find so that seems like something the verbiage of the curse wouldn't allow.

And yeah that bit on telepathy doesn't really speak one way or the other to me. You're free to interpret it as you like, I'm just tossing in my two cents is all. Just if I were the DM, I'd treat telepathy as something different from verbal communication, thus you wouldn't be able to mimic the verbal components of needed for a spell.

[Escribblings]

Hmmm, I dont think that shillelagh is a good idea, considering your will be picking up rogue levels. Quarterstaff does not work with sneak attack, shillelagh does has some problem with action economy sometimes, and besides all that, dex is still a very useful ability as it affects quite a lot of things (and it will be super useful if you are going with assassin). So my suggestion is to not aim for shillelagh.
Personally I would suggest other the blade (for sneaking in weapns anywhere), or the familiar (for aadvantage on attacks and for scouting)

Obvious picks for invocations:
1) Mask of many faces, which will combine wonderfully with being able to mimic voices (as disguise self does not allow for altering your voice, hence why this combinations rocks).
2) Devil's sight (if you are into devil's sight + darkness shenanigans: which can profit a lot from cunning action and from a good load of sneak attack, and from BB if melee, or sharpshooter if ranged; though sharpshooter and lots of sneak attack have some issues).

Good picks for cantrips and spells:
1) Friends: Combine this with mask of many faces and the ability to mimic. Create chaos!
2) Invisibility
3) Hex (see if the DM lets you cast it without breaking stealth
(I guess there are tons of other good spells too, that I cant think of right now

Are you going melee or ranged?

Melee.

That's why I was "considering" tome/shillelagh or blade.

Thematically AND mechanically I prefer blade, and it gives the extra attack when the Warlock gets to L5 if you choose Thirsting Blade.

I do plan to pick up Eldritch Blast, but I don't want to rely on it. I want to be in the thick of it.

The whole mimickery with MoMF and possibly friends could be quite fun.

I'm not sure about being drawn into the Hex or Darkness/DS typecast.

There's lots to think about.

Also, while mechanically starting Rogue is better, thematically/RP-wise starting Warlock makes more sense as it brings telepathy online from L1, and the telepathy itself coitus be one of the reasons for making the pact! To be able to communicate effectively without mimickery.

And if by BB you mean Booming Blade, that's not an option - no SCAG yet.