Was I in the wrong here?

[suplee215]

Hello, I came across a situation today where there was some semi heated PvP situations and I am wondering if I was in the wrong and if so at what point. Here is a situation. First thing first, we were all lvl 1 characters in the Princes of Apocalypse module. My character was an urchin background fighter whose skill with a crossbow is what got her off the streets and she is proud of her ability with it. She also believes in her reputation over money and is petty with grudges. Another character's player was a pimp. Literally. And tried to recruit my character for his business. My character threaten his. Then later when he was talking, I insulted his character. His flaw is he does not handle disrespect well and so he pimped slap my character. Which caused another party member to "defend my honor" even though I told him I can defend it myself. So in the first battle, after the bandits were taken care of I shot the pimp in the back. I then walked up to his unconscious body (lvl 1 characters so one shot was enough) and took his sword cane (a fluffed rapier to keep with his concept). He got really offended by character stealing. I mainly took the cane to avoid swift retaliation and did arrange for him to get it back after he woke up. Also, I feel like the D&D gods might have been against me for this as my character did end up dying due to a nercomancer. I passed 2 death saving throw, failed the next 2 while my party also failed to stabilize me with medical checks (required a DC of 10 in this instance) and the DM even allowed a religious party member to role to see if his god intervened. 6 rolls in a row all failed.

[Honest Tiefling]

...What I see here is a monumental break down in communication. Shall I assume that your group did not have a Session 0? Because I will assume that there was no discussion of PvP.

I think the issue is not very clear cut. He assaulted your character for honor, but so did you, just a bit more then a slap. Unless your character felt threatened for their life or safety due to the proposition, it's not really clear cut on who is in the right. I think it would come down to the particulars of the table itself.

I'm not a fan of characters killing each other for matters of honor and reputation, but I think trying to peddle another character's body and striking them first does muddy the waters.

Did you know OOC he would get super butthurt over this? If yes, you were in the wrong because you should have just told him to back off as his comfort zone wasn't leaving you with ways to respond in ways you thought were reasonable.

[Kane0]

PvP requires two people to particiapte, so you are at least partially at fault.

You made a character with strengths and flaws and so did the other guy. The problem was that they didn't mesh well. There's nothing wrong with conflict but the other side of that coin is that this is a social game built around teamwork so it can lead to this kind of problem.

As long as there's no hard feelings out of game should be all good.

Edit: Slightly related (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5Ye_dAge-4)

[suplee215]

...What I see here is a monumental break down in communication. Shall I assume that your group did not have a Session 0? Because I will assume that there was no discussion of PvP.

There was no session 0 but we play together often. It often feels like he plays the same character every time with small differences and attempts to annoy the entire table. But we are used to it. He is basically the comic relief. We also have PvP pretty often. My question is less about the fight itself and more if me stealing his sword cane was out of line (which seems to be the only thing that have really affected him). He basically always tries to trolls other characters in game and out of character so I expected things like him feeling like shooting him in the back was completely unjustified. I admit, my character was petty for doing that. But she was less the traditional sense of honor and more I'll win in the end type.

[coredump]

It is the *players* responsibility to create a character that will work well with a party. This includes any and all flaws.

Seems that both of you designed characters that were destined to go off the rails at some point.

[Unoriginal]

Were any of the players at the table or the DM against PvP?

[suplee215]

Were any of the players at the table or the DM against PvP?

My guess is not. We have PvP before. Part of why I am asking is because I end up in it quite a lot (ironically with the person DMing the game who was running for his first time). But the other player did seem to break character and be actually offended about the theft so I was wondering if that part was out of line.

[Unoriginal]

My guess is not. We have PvP before. Part of why I am asking is because I end up in it quite a lot (ironically with the person DMing the game who was running for his first time). But the other player did seem to break character and be actually offended about the theft so I was wondering if that part was out of line.

You should talk with them and see what they thought of it.

Some players are fine with that being done to their characters. Others are not.

[suplee215]

You should talk with them and see what they thought of it.

Some players are fine with that being done to their characters. Others are not.

Thanks, already did that so we'll see. Also checking because he seemed like player on player theft was a hard line the entire D&D community was against so I was checking to see if I broke a scared rule I was unaware of. Again, this is not the first time pvp happened in the group and everything seems find outside of the theft between us and once he got it back it didn't seem like too big an issue.

[Honest Tiefling]

If the table is fine with PvP, theft should be expected much more then attempting to whore out another character.

If the table is NOT fine with PvP, then theft between characters (and sometimes certain NPCs) should be avoided, but you also do not strike (even if it was a slap) or attempt to whore out other characters.

In essence, the whoring out thing is I am going to guess is much more of a hard line then mere theft.

[Kane0]

Theft and by extension loss of equipment was a big deal back in the 3.x and 4e days because gear was very important to character viability. For the same reason spells like disjunction were considered potent and in some cases taboo.
Thankfully this is no longer the case but many people have that engrained in them now. Who has that quote in their sig? "Kill off a characters family, thats just the cost of business. But steal a character's boots and now it gets personal"

Edit: And theres sentimental items as well, of course. Trinkets are often like that.

[suplee215]

If the table is fine with PvP, theft should be expected much more then attempting to whore out another character.

If the table is NOT fine with PvP, then theft between characters (and sometimes certain NPCs) should be avoided, but you also do not strike (even if it was a slap) or attempt to whore out other characters.

In essence, the whoring out thing is I am going to guess is much more of a hard line then mere theft.

Fair enough. As awkward as the "whore my character out" is thinking about it in the past, it really didn't bother me during it outside of making my character extremely hostile to him. He has a habit of playing extremely weird and possibly offensive characters who try stupid **** to the point where it doesn't bother me. As said, he takes the comic relief role. He has previous played a character based on the crack addict from Dave Chapel, played characters who tried to ask every single NPC on a date and egged on several PvP situations in the past. Him playing a pimp does not surprise anyone.

[Corran]

...
Then later when he was talking, I insulted his character. His flaw is he does not handle disrespect well and so he pimped slap my character.
...
So in the first battle, after the bandits were taken care of I shot the pimp in the back.
...

Well, rp-wise it might be understandable to do so, but looking it from an OoC perspective, I think this was an unecessary escalation. You could have this tension between your characters going on, taking the form of insults every now and then, or some other form of antagonism, all while setting the limits together as to what each of you (and the group to a lesser extent -as they may find such a toxic relationship between 2 of the party members too much for their taste) thinks is acceptable and what is not.
But jumping from non-leathal violence to actually attacking his character with a weapon, is a wrong move imo (and ofc, if you were that annoyed at how his character behaved, the best way to solve it is with an OoC discussion, at the very first break you make, or at the end of the game). At least this is my opinion.

[Sigreid]

Sounded reasonable to me. Man tries to turn you into his whore, you get hostile. Man slaps you, as a street urchin/fighter, you take him down. He's lucky you didn't kill him.

[suplee215]

Well, rp-wise it might be understandable to do so, but looking it from an OoC perspective, I think this was an unecessary escalation. You could have this tension between your characters going on, taking the form of insults every now and then, or some other form of antagonism, all while setting the limits together as to what each of you (and the group to a lesser extent -as they may find such a toxic relationship between 2 of the party members too much for their taste) thinks is acceptable and what is not.
But jumping from non-leathal violence to actually attacking his character with a weapon, is a wrong move imo (and ofc, if you were that annoyed at how his character behaved, the best way to solve it is with an OoC discussion, at the very first break you make, or at the end of the game). At least this is my opinion.

Well, his character actually got to roll damage and did 3-4 points of damage to my character. Sure, it wasn't all of my hp but it was a good chunk of a lvl 1 character. And I waited to where it will not be lethal, just a single shot in the back once the other threat was done.

[Pex]

He tried to recruit you. You declined. He was a cad and deserved the rebuke. Metagame it's a laugh from roleplaying. Move on. The error was you didn't move on. You were still insulted so felt the need to insult his character out of the blue when he talking. You continued the confrontation where it was possible there wouldn't have been any. Whether he overreacted by getting violent is debatable, but in his defense he didn't draw a weapon. Then you did.

[Unoriginal]

He tried to recruit you. You declined. He was a cad and deserved the rebuke. Metagame it's a laugh from roelplaying. Move on. The error was you didn't move on. You were still insulted so felt the need to insult his character out of the blue when he talking. You continued the confrontation where it was possible there wouldn't have been any. Whether he overreacted by getting violent is debatable, but in his defense he didn't draw a weapon. Then you did.

Because characters are their players, and they can't possibly act against another PC unless the player is personally insulted or being That Guy, right? And pimps shouldn't be despised by very proud women who they tried to hire as whores more than just laughing it off once.

The situation made sense given the characters' personalities, and was RPed more than adequately.

[Hrugner]

Sounded reasonable to me. Man tries to turn you into his whore, you get hostile. Man slaps you, as a street urchin/fighter, you take him down. He's lucky you didn't kill him.

That's my read as well. It's good to have some character attrition at this level anyway, particularly if it helps unify the party concept. As long as nobody is taking things personally, I don't see a problem here.

[Galadhrim]

Because characters are their players, and they can't possibly act against another PC unless the player is personally insulted or being That Guy, right? And pimps shouldn't be despised by very proud women who they tried to hire as whores more than just laughing it off once.

The situation made sense given the characters' personalities, and was RPed more than adequately.

And he escalated from in character insult to pvp, not OP. Once you make something pvp, you get what you get and you don't throw a fit.

I guess everyone has their own definition of fun but this guy sounds miserable to play with. I believe I would find another group. Why would you want to play with someone who only creates characters to troll yours and in general make things terrible.

[Pex]

Because characters are their players, and they can't possibly act against another PC unless the player is personally insulted or being That Guy, right? And pimps shouldn't be despised by very proud women who they tried to hire as whores more than just laughing it off once.

The situation made sense given the characters' personalities, and was RPed more than adequately.

PCs outrank NPCs. More leeway is warranted.

Had the fighter did nothing more but the pimp continued to harass her then he would be a jerk, not just a cad, and deserve further admonition.

The pimp was still a cad. The fighter doesn't have to like him. The pimp would need to prove himself. The fighter didn't give him the chance.

[Unoriginal]

PCs outrank NPCs.

What does it have to do with anything?



Had the fighter did nothing more but the pimp continued to harass her then he would be a jerk, not just a cad, and deserve further admonition.

The pimp was still a cad. The fighter doesn't have to like him. The pimp would need to prove himself. The fighter didn't give him the chance.

And?

Insulting someone they don't like seems like something a proud character would do.

[suplee215]

I guess everyone has their own definition of fun but this guy sounds miserable to play with. I believe I would find another group. Why would you want to play with someone who only creates characters to troll yours and in general make things terrible.

Well it is a game at a store and it is honesty the best group there. While he can get annoying at times, treating him as the narrative's comic relief usually goes a long way to making it manageable. He also often ignores roleplay time outside of his jokes as he prefers a more battle format than others at the table. I've had worse experiences with other players than with this one.

[furby076]

If you really want to insult a pimp, you don't take his cane. You take the feather off his pimp hat

[Thrudd]

The only thing I don't understand is why your character would leave his alive after shooting him with the crossbow. You don't shoot someone with a crossbow that you don't mean to kill. You should have taken the sword and finished him off with it, rather than let him recover.
His character was incompatible with yours, completely warranted the attack, and you got the jump on him. Good for you. Not all PCs need to be patient and kind people who work hard to tolerate disrespectful behavior.

[suplee215]

The pimp was still a cad. The fighter doesn't have to like him. The pimp would need to prove himself. The fighter didn't give him the chance.
So my character was supposed to be 100% quiet or just a yes/no/let's go there machine with no personality or quips until the pimp did more? I played with all the people at this table before and cracking jokes at other characters' expanses is not unusual, especially when there is tension between said characters. Just so happened he looked at his flaws and said "well this means I smack you" (paraphrasing).

[KorvinStarmast]

The only thing I don't understand is why your character would leave his alive after shooting him with the crossbow. You don't shoot someone with a crossbow that you don't mean to kill. You should have taken the sword and finished him off with it, rather than let him recover. That's what I was thinking, given that there seems to be a PvP tradition at the table.

[suplee215]

The only thing I don't understand is why your character would leave his alive after shooting him with the crossbow. You don't shoot someone with a crossbow that you don't mean to kill. You should have taken the sword and finished him off with it, rather than let him recover.
His character was incompatible with yours, completely warranted the attack, and you got the jump on him. Good for you. Not all PCs need to be patient and kind people who work hard to tolerate disrespectful behavior.

Partly so I don't alienate myself from the rest of the party and can still travel with them without having to retire the character (which ironically didn't work as I died due to unrelated things). Also my character's goal was to leave him where he was (there was a caged bear threatening to escape near there, but the bear escaped before I could leave the area) and if he died, he died. The same character who fought the pimp in my character's defense also rescued the pimp, stabilizing him and carrying him back to town.

[Galadhrim]

Well it is a game at a store and it is honesty the best group there. While he can get annoying at times, treating him as the narrative's comic relief usually goes a long way to making it manageable. He also often ignores roleplay time outside of his jokes as he prefers a more battle format than others at the table. I've had worse experiences with other players than with this one.

Fair enough I guess.

It takes a special kind of person to attempt to recruit another pc to be one of his whores, initiate PvP when said pc insults his character (based on good RP and all common sense), and then get his feelings hurt outside of the game play when pvp was rejoined and he was on the losing end. He created the character that everyone cheers when said character is beat to death with his own pimp cane, then cried when it happened. What a tool.

[suplee215]

That's what I was thinking, given that there seems to be a PvP tradition at the table.

The tradition of PvP usually allows people to keep their characters longer than the first week and that is what I was doing.

[suplee215]

Fair enough I guess.

It takes a special kind of person to attempt to recruit another pc to be one of his whores, initiate PvP when said pc insults his character (based on good RP and all common sense), and then get his feelings hurt outside of the game play when pvp was rejoined and he was on the losing end. He created the character that everyone cheers when said character is beat to death with his own pimp cane, then cried when it happened. What a tool.

Well to be fair I am not positive how much his feelings got hurt and I tried to ask afterwards but no answer yet. I think it might just has been the "stealing from the party is taboo" stigma and not so much the other actions even if he did defend those (he is the type to never admit his character has done wrong but also you can tell he is joking and the personality he displays both out and in character appear to always be false which might be why I am having trouble knowing where I stand).

[GPS]

Pimp player was in the wrong, pvp initiator. Party member who stepped in was also in the wrong, PVP exacerbator.

[Pex]

So my character was supposed to be 100% quiet or just a yes/no/let's go there machine with no personality or quips until the pimp did more? I played with all the people at this table before and cracking jokes at other characters' expanses is not unusual, especially when there is tension between said characters. Just so happened he looked at his flaws and said "well this means I smack you" (paraphrasing).

Hold off to see where he was going with it. If he continued after you told him to stop, then he's the problem. As I said, it is debatable if he overreacted in responding with violence. Possibly so, but he still didn't try to kill your character.

You asked if you did wrong. Don't get in a huff if someone suggests you probably were, but the pimp is not completely innocent either.

[suplee215]

Hold off to see where he was going with it. If he continued after you told him to stop, then he's the problem. As I said, it is debatable if he overreacted in responding with violence. Possibly so, but he still didn't try to kill your character.

And I didn't try to kill his. I knocked him out and left his unconscious body alone. Also it's not like his character didn't keep making suggestive comments the entire time.


[/QUOTE]You asked if you did wrong. Don't get in a huff if someone suggests you probably were, but the pimp is not completely innocent either.[/QUOTE]
Fair enough, I'm not trying to look ungrateful for your response. It's just that you seem to be saying I was supposed to not roleplay my character. I was also wondering more or less if the stealing aspect was the taboo as that is where it seemed like the tension escalated from game to out of game for a moment.

[Unoriginal]

Hold off to see where he was going with it. If he continued after you told him to stop, then he's the problem.

Again, you seem to have troubles separating characters being jerks and players being jerks.

[Pex]

And I didn't try to kill his. I knocked him out and left his unconscious body alone. Also it's not like his character didn't keep making suggestive comments the entire time.

Point. I was making a distinction between a hand slap and drawing a crossbow for real damage. I've been in your position in the past and drew first blood. It made things worse. Also, it wasn't clear the pimp continued to be caddish. It looked to me just that one instance.



Again, you seem to have troubles separating characters being jerks and players being jerks.

:smallsigh:

[KorvinStarmast]

The tradition of PvP usually allows people to keep their characters longer than the first week and that is what I was doing. OK, thanks for explaining.

[suplee215]

Point. I was making a distinction between a hand slap and drawing a crossbow for real damage. I've been in your position in the past and drew first blood. It made things worse. Also, it wasn't clear the pimp continued to be caddish. It looked to me just that one instance.




:smallsigh:

3 damage to my character is not bad at 1st lvl (and probably should have been more, there is a house rule of fists doing the 1d4+str mod and he forgot to add the str mod). As I said earlier, the guy always goes for troll characters which is ok by me. I treat him as the comic relief. But physical violence is going to be met with physical violence. You roll a d20 to attack then it's a real attack, weapon or no weapon.

[Galadhrim]

Fair enough, I'm not trying to look ungrateful for your response. It's just that you seem to be saying I was supposed to not roleplay my character. I was also wondering more or less if the stealing aspect was the taboo as that is where it seemed like the tension escalated from game to out of game for a moment.

In the end, I think the answer is gong to be, it depends on the agreed upon rules at your table. At my table what this player did would not have been put up with by any players but seems to be acceptable at yours. Item stealing could certainly be a sacred cow at your table, but you won't really know without addressing it with everyone. At our table it would not be ok, but we also don't do pvp so it's hard to say.

[ThurlRavenscrof]

If the table is fine with PvP, theft should be expected much more then attempting to whore out another character.

Couldn't agree more. I feel like that was the real line that was crossed here...

[Dr.Samurai]

This is what I'm referring to in the Act of Stealing thread. So we're all sitting down at the table, ready to play PotA, and Douchey McDoucherton brings a pimp to the table and wants to whore one of the girls out. Brilliant. What a great character. So interesting. Oh, look! He has thin skin and is quick to anger. Amazing. Oh, look! He just slapped another PC! What an incredible interaction. Things are just sooo interesting now. Oh, wow! She retaliated with a crossbow bolt to the back! This is the best game of PotA I've ever been a part of. Look at everything going on that has *nothing* to do with the module or all the effort the DM put in for preparation. What? A PC's item got stolen by another PC? Yay! More interesting conflict! Huh? The PC is angry that the item got stolen? What a sourpuss!!! Can't they see how fun and additive PvP is?!?!

@OP: If PvP is allowed and common for the group, it seems strange that the player would be so upset over the theft of his rapier. But I mean... everyone has their boundaries. I'd have been upset at the first hint of PvP, even as someone on the sidelines. I just find it so disruptive to the game. But if you guys have fun with it, and this is expected, I think you just found something that that particular player doesn't like.

Now that you have found his weakness, what will you do? :smallamused:

[suplee215]

This is what I'm referring to in the Act of Stealing thread. So we're all sitting down at the table, ready to play PotA, and Douchey McDoucherton brings a pimp to the table and wants to whore one of the girls out. Brilliant. What a great character. So interesting. Oh, look! He has thin skin and is quick to anger. Amazing. Oh, look! He just slapped another PC! What an incredible interaction. Things are just sooo interesting now. Oh, wow! She retaliated with a crossbow bolt to the back! This is the best game of PotA I've ever been a part of. Look at everything going on that has *nothing* to do with the module or all the effort the DM put in for preparation. What? A PC's item got stolen by another PC? Yay! More interesting conflict! Huh? The PC is angry that the item got stolen? What a sourpuss!!! Can't they see how fun and additive PvP is?!?!
Well the DM seemed ok with it. Also usually if you let an evil character into the party with good ones you tend to be ok with PvP (the pimp's alignment was neutral evil).

[Beelzebubba]

My character was an urchin background fighter whose skill with a crossbow is what got her off the streets and she is proud of her ability with it. She also believes in her reputation over money and is petty with grudges.

You know how in all disaster movies, there's usually a character with a big flaw that gets themselves into trouble. Pride, stuff like that.

That character always dies in order to show the heroes that they have to be smarter sometimes to survive. You proved that point well. You're not 'right' or 'wrong', you played a character with a very dangerous weakness quite correctly.

High five for the integrity you held in your role playing I guess? :smallbiggrin:

[GPS]

Well the DM seemed ok with it. Also usually if you let an evil character into the party with good ones you tend to be ok with PvP (the pimp's alignment was neutral evil).
Eh, not really. Evil and good party members can often coexist without PvP if they have a common goal. Though if your party is good with PvP, why are you here asking if you were in the wrong? You're fine, the pimp's fine, you were both just doing something you pre-agreed was acceptsble, so neither can complain.

[suplee215]

You know how in all disaster movies, there's usually a character with a big flaw that gets themselves into trouble. Pride, stuff like that.

That character always dies in order to show the heroes that they have to be smarter sometimes to survive. You proved that point well. You're not 'right' or 'wrong', you played a character with a very dangerous weakness quite correctly.

High five for the integrity you held in your role playing I guess? :smallbiggrin:

Thanks, although I feel like "does not handle disrespect well" is also a dangerous character flaw, especially for a playing playing someone with a morally questionable profession like a pimp.

[suplee215]

Eh, not really. Evil and good party members can often coexist without PvP if they have a common goal. Though if your party is good with PvP, why are you here asking if you were in the wrong? You're fine, the pimp's fine, you were both just doing something you pre-agreed was acceptsble, so neither can complain.

Mainly just because of a 2 second outburst by the other player that felt like the only time he actually not only broke character in game but he was serious out of character to. It felt awkward. Also I tend to get into pvp situations a lot at this table (something I plan to ask the players and DM about this thursday during the weekly campaign) and I am wondering if I am the issue. Although also the PvP has been some of the strongest elements of the story.

[GPS]

Mainly just because of a 2 second outburst by the other player that felt like the only time he actually not only broke character in game but he was serious out of character to. It felt awkward. Also I tend to get into pvp situations a lot at this table (something I plan to ask the players and DM about this thursday during the weekly campaign) and I am wondering if I am the issue.
Oh, that's what you're worried about, the OOC situation. No, if he's breaking character and getting mad out of character about you disrespecting his character in character, he's the issue. It's an obvious sign he's way to attached to his character. I can see him playing his flaw in character, but if he appeared to react out of character then it may be a sign he was hiding some kind of anger behind this flaw.

[suplee215]

Oh, that's what you're worried about, the OOC situation. No, if he's breaking character and getting mad out of character about you disrespecting his character in character, he's the issue. It's an obvious sign he's way to attached to his character. I can see him playing his flaw in character, but if he appeared to react out of character then it may be a sign he was hiding some kind of anger behind this flaw.

Well not too much. I joked about his other characters in the path and he had no issue. Also I insulted this very character earlier in the session with 0 backlash. But he was looking at his character sheet when my character spoke again and saw it. His characters also tend to focus on stereotypes of his concepts and so "no one disrespects a pimp" was what he was going for.

[Dr.Samurai]

Well the DM seemed ok with it.
Yeah, I understand. It sounds like you're all okay with it and it is normal for your group. I'm arguing against stealing (specifically) and PvP (generally) in this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?523600-How-do-you-feel-about-the-act-of-stealing) thread. I just find it funny that even in a group where PvP is common and everyone is cool with it, you still end up with someone getting butthurt and another person wondering if they crossed a line. It's one of the reasons I suggest to people that they simply avoid PvP altogether (I don't mean intra-party conflict here). But you always have the high-minded, sophisticated roleplayers that are above petty concerns like human emotions, and believe they can handle PvP for a much deeper, richer experience than the rest of us simpletons.

Also usually if you let an evil character into the party with good ones you tend to be ok with PvP (the pimp's alignment was neutral evil).
I can see why you might think that, but I'm skeptical of statements like this, and of anyone that assumes their alignment will justify actions against my character.

[Malifice]

Hello, I came across a situation today where there was some semi heated PvP situations and I am wondering if I was in the wrong and if so at what point. Here is a situation. First thing first, we were all lvl 1 characters in the Princes of Apocalypse module. My character was an urchin background fighter whose skill with a crossbow is what got her off the streets and she is proud of her ability with it. She also believes in her reputation over money and is petty with grudges. Another character's player was a pimp. Literally. And tried to recruit my character for his business. My character threaten his. Then later when he was talking, I insulted his character. His flaw is he does not handle disrespect well and so he pimped slap my character. Which caused another party member to "defend my honor" even though I told him I can defend it myself. So in the first battle, after the bandits were taken care of I shot the pimp in the back. I then walked up to his unconscious body (lvl 1 characters so one shot was enough) and took his sword cane (a fluffed rapier to keep with his concept). He got really offended by character stealing. I mainly took the cane to avoid swift retaliation and did arrange for him to get it back after he woke up. Also, I feel like the D&D gods might have been against me for this as my character did end up dying due to a nercomancer. I passed 2 death saving throw, failed the next 2 while my party also failed to stabilize me with medical checks (required a DC of 10 in this instance) and the DM even allowed a religious party member to role to see if his god intervened. 6 rolls in a row all failed.

You shot someone in the back with a crossbow... and expected him and your other friends to continue to travel with you?

Why on earth would they?

If you met me in real life and I proceeded to shoot you in the back with a crossbow, would you want anything to do with me after that? Would you continue to travel with me and put your life in my hands?

Seriously dude think about it. Imagine it.

[suplee215]

You shot someone in the back with a crossbow... and expected him and your other friends to continue to travel with you?

Why on earth would they?

If you met me in real life and I proceeded to shoot you in the back with a crossbow, would you want anything to do with me after that? Would you continue to travel with me and put your life in my hands?

Seriously dude think about it. Imagine it.
Well do to the other things going on, most of the party seems to not view my character in the wrong. I was basically put on probation to earn a few members' trust, but the pimp didn't even have that. I didn't expect him to continue traveling with me that much but also I believe the character actions were justifiable at least in most of the characters' eyes. Hell, another character went into combat the exact moment he attacked mine.

[GlenSmash!]

I will say yes you were in the wrong here, but probably not for the reason you might think. Here is the reason: You let a problem player get you into a sticky situation.

In my experience, I've found that most players that "instigate" this kind of behavior can't take it in return.

Character insults you, but when is insulted resorts to violence. When you respond with violence (and theft) the player is upset. If the player didn't want to be upset they shouldn't have started it of course, BUT you could have avoided it too. Here are a few ways how.

Had an out of character conversation (possibly at session 0) about the tone of this game, and whether or not PCs propositioning other PCs into prostitution is the kind of thing that would result in rewarding gameplay.

Taken the high road: Not responded to the character's bad behavior with more insults, or responding to the slap with a crossbow shot.

Or, taken the low road immediately instead of premeditating your revenge. If your character had slugged his as soon as his hit yours, this actually would have gone a lot better.

Bottom line: Problem players tend to disrupt games in a way that they themselves don't even tend to enjoy. I prefer to handle this in a few ways:

Don't play with them

Or Set expectations at a session 0

And if necessary deescalate situations, even when escalating them might be justified.

[KorvinStarmast]

Yeah, I understand. It sounds like you're all okay with it and it is normal for your group. I'm arguing against stealing (specifically) and PvP (generally) in this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?523600-How-do-you-feel-about-the-act-of-stealing) thread.
I just find it funny that even in a group where PvP is common and everyone is cool with it, you still end up with someone getting butthurt and another person wondering if they crossed a line.
It's one of the reasons I suggest to people that they simply avoid PvP altogether (I don't mean intra-party conflict here). But you always have the high-minded, sophisticated roleplayers that are above petty concerns like human emotions, and believe they can handle PvP for a much deeper, richer experience than the rest of us simpletons.

I can see why you might think that, but I'm skeptical of statements like this, and of anyone that assumes their alignment will justify actions against my character.
*grins* nice post.