Fist of the Forest worth it for this character?

[SangoProduction]

I am playing a barbarian (https://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=1187908)with 2 Claws (1d8 dmg) and a Bite (1d6 dmg), and as expected of the barbarian, is focusing primarily on Strength and Con.

So, if I took Fist of the Forest, I should probably work in Unarmed Attacks in to the rotation, yes? But that then turns my Claws in to secondary weapons, which I can reduce the penalty to attack with a feat or 2. Not that bad, except it also cuts my strength bonus from 1x to 0.5x on them. That means I lose 1x multiplier to strength, in exchange, getting 1x str on my Unarmed Strikes, which after 3 levels, will also grant 1d10 (avg 5.5) bonus damage, effectively...all in exchange for -2 to all my other attacks, and the feat Multiattack.

That doesn't seem too great....except that it does gain iteratives, which natural attacks don't. So that might be worth something. Right there are items to progress monk unarmed damage, yes? They work for this? Oh, that amulet that enchants natural weapons also applies to unarmed strikes? Hrm...that might be of much more value then.

Feral Trance might be cool. +4 to Dexterity, and +2 to unarmed strike damage. I am not sure if the bonus bite attack would stack with my existing one though, and it doesn't work with pounce, by raw. If it did just straight up grant a second bite that would probably be worth while.

AC bonus from Con is nice, but I'm at a +6 Con bonus right now, and not seeing it be likely for me to take a Con item over Str, I am not sure it wouldn't be better to just buy a +1 Breastplate, which could be enchanted later, unlike being unarmored. Huh....but it applies to Touch and Flat Footed, so long as I'm not immobilized. That's probably really good?

It does only cost 1 feat that I wasn't going to get otherwise (save for Multiattack), and 8 skill points (2 levels of barb worth). I'm told it's a really good class...and I think, without the natural attacks, it would be, likely. I mean the damage is still not as good as a Greatsword, but it's better than a monk.

Could someone convince me more solidly that it's worth taking?

[Gullintanni]

I am playing a barbarian (https://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=1187908)with 2 Claws (1d8 dmg) and a Bite (1d6 dmg), and as expected of the barbarian, is focusing primarily on Strength and Con.

So, if I took Fist of the Forest, I should probably work in Unarmed Attacks in to the rotation, yes? But that then turns my Claws in to secondary weapons, which I can reduce the penalty to attack with a feat or 2. Not that bad, except it also cuts my strength bonus from 1x to 0.5x on them. That means I lose 1x multiplier to strength, in exchange, getting 1x str on my Unarmed Strikes, which after 3 levels, will also grant 1d10 (avg 5.5) bonus damage, effectively...all in exchange for -2 to all my other attacks, and the feat Multiattack.

That doesn't seem too great....except that it does gain iteratives, which natural attacks don't. So that might be worth something. Right there are items to progress monk unarmed damage, yes? They work for this? Oh, that amulet that enchants natural weapons also applies to unarmed strikes? Hrm...that might be of much more value then.

Feral Trance might be cool. +4 to Dexterity, and +2 to unarmed strike damage. I am not sure if the bonus bite attack would stack with my existing one though, and it doesn't work with pounce, by raw. If it did just straight up grant a second bite that would probably be worth while.

AC bonus from Con is nice, but I'm at a +6 Con bonus right now, and not seeing it be likely for me to take a Con item over Str, I am not sure it wouldn't be better to just buy a +1 Breastplate, which could be enchanted later, unlike being unarmored. Huh....but it applies to Touch and Flat Footed, so long as I'm not immobilized. That's probably really good?

It does only cost 1 feat that I wasn't going to get otherwise (save for Multiattack), and 8 skill points (2 levels of barb worth). I'm told it's a really good class...and I think, without the natural attacks, it would be, likely. I mean the damage is still not as good as a Greatsword, but it's better than a monk.

Could someone convince me more solidly that it's worth taking?

Be sure to add in a Monk's Belt for Wis-to-AC and an additional two step increase in Unarmed Strike damage. Monk's Belt brings your UAS damage up to 1d8, and FoTF would increase it from there to 2d6.

It may also be worth a one level dip in Monk. This would net you increased Unarmed Strike damage a little faster, good saves, and, if you take the Overwhelming Attack combat style, you get Improved Unarmed Strike and Power Attack as bonus feats on first level.

If you play as a Dwarf, and take two levels of Deep Warden, you'll get Con to AC again, for 2x Con + Wis to AC. The class has Endurance as a prerequisite feat, which Combos nice with Steadfast Determination, which shifts will saves to Concentration, and natural 1's are no longer automatic failures. Lots of Con synergy.

[Solaris]

Monk has an alignment restriction.

Chaos monk, which can be found in the back of a Dragon Magazine, is chaotic. That might be more useful.

[Darrin]

Power Lunge (Ghostwalk) will fix the Str bonus problem at least on charges.

[Rebel7284]

Being an ex-monk is a thing, you don't lose much. Requires changing alignment mid-build, but I don't expect that would be a problem for most DMs.

[Solaris]

Being an ex-monk is a thing, you don't lose much. Requires changing alignment mid-build, but I don't expect that would be a problem for most DMs.

You're right; they even retain all class abilities. That'll learn me to post without double-checking first!

[SangoProduction]

Be sure to add in a Monk's Belt for Wis-to-AC and an additional two step increase in Unarmed Strike damage. Monk's Belt brings your UAS damage up to 1d8, and FoTF would increase it from there to 2d6.

It may also be worth a one level dip in Monk. This would net you increased Unarmed Strike damage a little faster, good saves, and, if you take the Overwhelming Attack combat style, you get Improved Unarmed Strike and Power Attack as bonus feats on first level.

If you play as a Dwarf, and take two levels of Deep Warden, you'll get Con to AC again, for 2x Con + Wis to AC. The class has Endurance as a prerequisite feat, which Combos nice with Steadfast Determination, which shifts will saves to Concentration, and natural 1's are no longer automatic failures. Lots of Con synergy.

Ah. Right I forgot about attack styles. Yeah, I would need to get both of those feats soon (even if I already planned on PA), and I already took a level of Cleric with Fractional BAB, so I'm not losing BAB from going in. It would probably be better than taking a fighter level or 2, to go in to monk in that case That helps alleviate the pain of going in to the class, and with Monk's Belt working for damage, if you go 1 lvl monk, that would make it rather decently useful.

Also, You can't get 2x [attribute] to a stat, because they'd be coming from the same source.

[Metahuman1]

Unless your going to be mercilessly boosting Con AND going for doubling up on it to your AC, I'd actually probably just wear a Chain Shirt. If I happened to have a high enough Dex for it to be worth while, I'd see if the DM would allow segmented for it, and I'd see if he'd allow other odd ball Mundane modifiers (Fey Craft, those upgrades form the dragonlance books that let you keep dropping the ACP, Reinforced, Chana-Nari and Dashtana form OA.). before enchanting it.

This way you can have the AC and the special armor property's, which are more important.



I'd also ask the DM about putting the Aptitude property on Amulet of Mighty Fists, keyed to Unarmed Strike, and see if you can snag the Hammer Fist feat. If you can do both, that should dramatically increase your AC.

[Gullintanni]

Ah. Right I forgot about attack styles. Yeah, I would need to get both of those feats soon (even if I already planned on PA), and I already took a level of Cleric with Fractional BAB, so I'm not losing BAB from going in. It would probably be better than taking a fighter level or 2, to go in to monk in that case That helps alleviate the pain of going in to the class, and with Monk's Belt working for damage, if you go 1 lvl monk, that would make it rather decently useful.

Also, You can't get 2x [attribute] to a stat, because they'd be coming from the same source.

They're actually two different abilities. Fist of the Forest adds Con-to-AC while Deepwarden trades Dex-for-Con to AC, which is why it works. Two abilities of the same name that operate entirely differently.

And technically, you gain nothing by taking a level of Monk except for the feats, even with a Monk's belt. But the feats are a solid benefit for a one level dip, since you need them both.

[JustIgnoreMe]

They're actually two different abilities. Fist of the Forest adds Con-to-AC while Deepwarden trades Dex-for-Con to AC, which is why it works. Two abilities of the same name that operate entirely differently.
There's an argument that the type of bonus is the same: it's "Stat Modifier". I've seen it argued on here before. I don't agree with it, but I can see that the wording is ambiguous enough.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?511548-Stacking-untyped-bonuses&p=21583549#post21583549

[Gullintanni]

There's an argument that the type of bonus is the same: it's "Stat Modifier". I've seen it argued on here before. I don't agree with it, but I can see that the wording is ambiguous enough.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?511548-Stacking-untyped-bonuses&p=21583549#post21583549

In my experience the forum consensus is that 2x Con to AC works in this case. I've never heard of a Stat bonus. If they're not specifically called out as such, then they're untyped. That said, I haven't done any analysis on the subject.

So...do your research//ask your DM I guess.