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Lemmy
2017-05-14, 07:34 PM
Hello, fellow playgrounders. How are you all? I hope everything is going awesome in your lives!

Tell me... Do you like Clerics? Do you enjoy playing stalwart followers of the divine, channeling the mercy and/or invoking the wrath of greater powers?

Well, so do I! Playing a Cleric can be a lot of fun! There many different role-playing opportunities in them.

But you know what is not fun? Building a Cleric. The class is as boring as it gets. There are no meaningful choices to be made anywhere. You pick 2 domains and... That's about it.You get all your stuff at 1st level and then have nothing else to look forward to. You don't even have to choose your spells! Every even-numbered level is extremely boring except for 1, maybe 2 of them.

The idea behind this project is to make Clerics (and domains in general) more interesting. How? By giving domains some modularity. Now you get cool (although not necessarily powerful) domain powers every 4 levels... And you get a nice scaling bonus to knowledge checks related to your faith. Add that to spell progression and domains, and suddenly the class gets something cool every level, and players finally have something to look forward to.

However, Clerics are already a very powerful class and a few domain powers are actually quite potent… That means the class doesn’t need a buff, so while this homebrew ends up as a power up for Clerics, the increase in power (hopefully) isn't an issue. Spells are still the Cleric's main tools, but now players can join their friends in having with the planning/building aspect of the character creation process.

With no further delays... Here is:

Lemmy's Revised Cleric for Pathfinder RPG (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1LTPsJxfFlEiGNpPBzYQdcD0OXyt0fNEFbNz7-1vmchk/edit?usp=sharing)

(also compatible with D&D 3.X, although some minor changes might be necessary)

(Spell Casting and Channel Energy are unchanged... For now. I just failed to add them to the document. Will do it later.)

I hope you enjoy.

All feedback is appreciated. So share your thoughts! :smallsmile:

khadgar567
2017-05-14, 11:25 PM
Domain request soul , hunt, and jungle please and did you get my mail mate

Lemmy
2017-05-15, 07:42 AM
Domain request soul , hunt, and jungle please
Wait... Are those domains? Or sub-domains? I don't remember them (in Pathfinder, anyway). In any case I'll take a look at them and see what I can do. :smallcool:


and did you get my mail mate
Yes. I also sent a reply e-mail. :smallsmile:

khadgar567
2017-05-15, 08:44 AM
Wait... Are those domains? Or sub-domains? I don't remember them (in Pathfinder, anyway). In any case I'll take a look at them and see what I can do. :smallcool:


Yes. I also sent a reply e-mail. :smallsmile:
They are not complate domains mate just names with few powers brewed by me. Pluss its good way to flex your system for abuse test

Lemmy
2017-05-15, 09:01 AM
They are not complate domains mate just names with few powers brewed by me. Pluss its good way to flex your system for abuse test
I see. I'll think of a way to incorporate them. Right now, though, I really want to create the Plant and Protection domains (Well... Not right now, exactly, since I'm a bit busy at the moment, but you know what I mean :smallbiggrin:).

khadgar567
2017-05-15, 10:33 AM
I see. I'll think of a way to incorporate them. Right now, though, I really want to create the Plant and Protection domains (Well... Not right now, exactly, since I'm a bit busy at the moment, but you know what I mean :smallbiggrin:).
I know happy to help if you need

Lemmy
2017-05-15, 10:40 PM
I know happy to help if you need
I always welcome suggestions and criticism. :smallsmile:

rferries
2017-05-15, 11:36 PM
Always a pleasure to see ambitious projects like these. Keep up the good work!

aimlessPolymath
2017-05-16, 12:17 AM
Huh.
So a Revised cleric gives up all normal cleric spellcasting other than domain spell slots? Am I reading that right? Or is the omission of spellcasting unintentional?

Special abilities look very nice. I'll try to do an in-depth comparison later.

Inclusion of channel energy feels a little off, but I'm biased against it.

Slightly off-topic but one thing that I really want to see as a homebrew project is a compilation of domain/portfolio abilities, bringing domain abilities, warpriest blessings, variant channeling effects, feats, and so on under one roof, so that they can be easily slotted in to, say, paladins with minor domain powers, or whatever.


Domain review (organized arbitrarily- might swap to domainwise, ratings semi-arbitrary):

Yes, I'm aware that these are the basic domain powers. Still need a look over.

Animal:
1/10 Combat use: Not happening, barring in-combat diplomacy, and who does that?
8/10 Noncombat use: Super useful for espionage, scouting, gaining allies, etc. You can spend it for a minute or so when you send out your minion, then save it until you need to spend it.

Charm:
6/10 Combat use: Handy, has no save, and you have average BAB, which makes for good touch attacks, but any creature you would want to stunlock have too many HD for it to be useful.
2/10 noncombat use:No. Possible use when you're sneaking around, to ensure stealthy takedowns.

Death:
4/10 Combat Use: Decent damage, when you measure it over the time period. You have better things to do at 1st level (like... hitting them with your mace), and the damage scales badly.
1/10 noncombat use: No.

Healing:
2/10 Combat Use: You don't want this to ever come up. Upgrades to 6/10 if the reading of only getting domain spells is true, because it's reusable combat healing.
1/10 noncombat use: In any situation where you might want to use this, you can use Channel Energy instead.

Luck:
7/10 Combat Use: It takes a standard action to use, and is worth about an extra attack's worth of accuracy. Good to help out the fighter, though!
10/10 Noncombat use: YES. You can use this on practically anything.

Magic:
7/10 Combat Use: Ranged attack based off your primary stat? Heck yeah!
1/10 Combat use: No.

Travel:
6/10 combat use: Eehh. I haven't seen much difficult terrain often. Honestly, the longstrider spell is more useful than this.
2/10 noncombat use: Probably not going to come up, but "not taking penalties" can be fiangled into moving through some forms of hazardous terrain safely.

Trickery:
8/10 combat use: Handy to have, doesn't take your standard action, almost guaranteed to soak an attack- what's not to love?
2/10 noncombat use: There's probably something you could do with this?

War:
3/10 combat use: Eeehh. Standard action use means it takes dedicated work to take advantage of, since you could make an attack instead.
1/10 noncombat use.

Storm Burst:
4/10 combat use: Ranged attacks are nice, touch attacks are nice, penalties to their strike back are nice.
2/10 noncombat use.


I'll probably continue with this tomorrow.

Edit: I lied!

Animal:
9/10 combat usage. Animal companions are great, and this scales very well, although it starts weakish.
8/10 noncombat- combined with the 1st level ability, it has lots of uses, including being a mount, tracking, scouting, and so on.

Charm:
Hard to put a hard number on it, but it's rather specialized against enchantment effects, which are campaign-dependent. Not going to be relevant often, though you'll be glad of it when it is. Somewhat more concerning is that Charisma is generally a low secondary stat for clerics.

Death:
Weak combat uses, other than anti-undead, where you're fully set up anyway thanks to Channel Energy.
Great noncombat usage. Even if you prepare Speak With Dead, this will be available almost all the time, and can be spread amongst various corpses.

Healing:
Boring and cure spells are rarely your main source of healing. A paladin-mercy- like ability would be far more handy for condition removal.

Luck:
Mm... It's handy, but not going to come up that often. Better at higher levels, where there will be more rolls going around, but I'd estimate that it comes up something like 1/encounter.

Magic: Two cantrips. Really. Really? Needs more oomph.

Travel:
Gotta go fast! Speed is always good, especially for heavy armor users.

Trickery:
Very, very nice! You can get a whole lot of power out of this, depending- the most notable, of course, is forgotten trick. Extremely good.

War:
Worth ~ 2 feats, at best- a melee weapon and a ranged one. Not very good feats, either. Consider augmenting with free Weapon Focus in every weapon- equivalent to a +1 attack bonus, plus easy prerequisites for several feats.

Weather:
Eh. Add energy resistance and it's decent-ish.

Lemmy
2017-05-16, 08:51 AM
Huh.
So a Revised cleric gives up all normal cleric spellcasting other than domain spell slots? Am I reading that right? Or is the omission of spellcasting unintentional?
Ugh... I actually forgot to add the spell-casting portion. -.-'

Cleric spell-casting remains the same as RAW... Basically, the Cleric gains 2 extra skill points (NO CLASS SHOULD HAVE ONLY 2 OF THEM! Well... Maybe Int-based full casters), Monastic Training and a bunch of different domains.

BTW, right now, most Base Domain Powers are the same 1st level domain powers found in RAW, with a few tweaks added to some (usually just more uses per day).

aimlessPolymath
2017-05-16, 01:38 PM
So, the revised cleric gives up nothing compared to the base cleric (a class noted to be one of the T1 greats)? That seems a little excessive- maybe consider dropping spell progression a bit (1 spell/day per level, maybe) to compensate?

Something feels off about that.

Rebuke Death is terrible. It was terrible when it was printed, and it's terrible now.



Animal:
Raptor mode is always handy, but the limitation of "self only" holds this back a lot, keeping you from giving it to someone who can make use of it. Okay for the versatility to approach different situations.
IN A DECENT PLACE

Charm:
It would be fine if it were minutes per level. Swift action is nice, but that only matters in combat-related situations, which charm is unusable in.
NEEDS HELP(Duration up)

Death:
If you channel negative energy, you're happy, otherwise you're sad.
BUILD-DEPENDENT

Healing:
Eehh. It will auto-stabilize people, which is nice. Best use is with a low-level spell with AoE, like Path of Glory. The healing is pretty small, though, and healbot healers are boring.
NEEDS HELP

Luck:
Amazing as always.
GREAT

Magic:
Eeh again. Dispelling is amazing, but touch range is less so, plus you have it as a domain spell anyway.
NEEDS HELP

Travel:
Eeh. It will rarely come up. Other than that, not having to worry about Concentration checks from weather is nice?
NEEDS HELP

Trickery:
Short duration for infiltration is sad(seriously, Disguise Self is 10 min/level), but you can use this for quick entry, I suppose.
NEEDS A LITTLE HELP (duration up)

War:
Niice. Would be a bit better if you got Weapon Focus (Everything), letting you move past some prerequisites, but still very handy.
DECENT

Weather:
It's fun to blow out your entire allotment in one go, but it does so little damage!
BAD

Blackstorm
2017-09-15, 06:45 AM
Ok, necroposting time.
Lemmy, Your revised fighter is amazing, I appreciated it. I just discovered your work, and it's impressive, thank you.
I tried to search a good cleric rework, and I found yours. So... Wow, seems exactly what it take to give some customization to the clerics, that yes, is boring as hell to build.
But, it seems you have somehow put aside this project, and this make me really sad. I'm thinking to reprise and finish your work, but before doing that, I need to ask you if you want to finish it. You're really good in balancing things, as far I can see, so it would be worth to finish this. And that would be higly appreciated by almost all the players in the world.

Lemmy
2017-09-15, 04:06 PM
Ok, necroposting time.
Lemmy, Your revised fighter is amazing, I appreciated it. I just discovered your work, and it's impressive, thank you.
I tried to search a good cleric rework, and I found yours. So... Wow, seems exactly what it take to give some customization to the clerics, that yes, is boring as hell to build.
But, it seems you have somehow put aside this project, and this make me really sad. I'm thinking to reprise and finish your work, but before doing that, I need to ask you if you want to finish it. You're really good in balancing things, as far I can see, so it would be worth to finish this. And that would be higly appreciated by almost all the players in the world.
Hey, Blackstorm! Thanks for the interest. I'm glad you enjoy my work (I love my Fighter revision as well, but I guess I'm biased. :smallbiggrin:).

So... It's not that I dropped the project... It's just that while I can still check and post on the forums, since I can quickly do it from my phone... I have very little free time to devote to things that take more time and effort (like updating homebrew projects)... And what ever little time get to assign to RPGs, is usually spent actually playing the game.

There are 3 main projects I really, really want to work on... My Cleric revision, my Custom Weapon Generation System and my Mage base class...

Unfortunately... Free time is a very precious and scarce commodity for me right now... So I have to prioritize.

Hopefully, things will get better soon (I recently got my Saturdays back, so that's a good start!). And with a little luck, this break will allow me to return with fresh new ideas! :smallsmile:

Anyway... That's all for now.

Thank you again for your interest. :smallsmile:

Lemmy
2017-10-06, 10:53 PM
Ooph...

Almost halfway done! 16 out of 18 domains are done!

I really like how the Knowledge, Plant and Sun domains turned out...

Can't wait for my next Cleric! Hopefully I'll have a chance to actually play a character instead of GMing at some point. :smallbiggrin:

aimlessPolymath
2017-10-06, 11:56 PM
Since this is back up, might as well continue my level-by-level review of the domain abilities. I'm trying to compare their relative power and utility.

Level 12:

Animal Domain: There are probably some pretty impressive things you can do with this- consider the power of doubling up on beast shape III, for example. A buff focused cleric loves this.
Charm: +2 DC is nice, but if you look at the rules for Diplomacy, this equates to a +5 conditional modifier to Diplomacy. Not the most impressive. Suggest something like maybe the effects of the attitude shift last for significantly longer?
Darkness: Feels bad. Minor resistance and a saving throw bonus to an extremely narrow class of creatures. Maybe a continuous blur effect while in dim light or darkness to buff this up? Something?
Death: Feels... decent. Extremely repeatable, useful ability. Comparable to a double-strength Lay On Hands (1x for damage, 1x for healing). You'll have better spells, but this is a solid default option.
Destruction: A natural progression of the Sunder-type abilities. Bypassing hardness is pretty important to have, so this lets you pick your weapons more freely. That said, a feat that only cares about critical hits is a bit of a limited ability. A solid but unimpressive level.
Healing: The ability to always have this spell as an option is very good to have. Extra healing granted is not very much at this level relative to the healing you do- it does make low-level cure spells much more efficient, though. A solid level, though the only real draw is the Breath of Life ability.
Knowledge: This is a very powerful tool to have at-will. It means always knowing what's behind the door, and always being able to overhear conversations.
Luck: A pretty impressive ability! Could be very swingy, letting you use the healing to turn around a fight. Makes a pretty bad low-level ability much better, which could be used as a pattern elsewhere- consider letting the cleric spend two uses of Bleeding Touch to use the 12th level ability.
Magic: This breaks the mold by having an upgrade at 18th level- very unusual! A bonus feat is nice but not great at this point.
Plant: A very powerful divinatory ability in the wild.
Protection: Damage spreading is always nice, and it multiplies the power of Channel Energy. Very solid
Sun: Eeeeeh. Does very little except against the weakest of foes. The undefined range makes it usable on a strategic level, but on a tactical level, anyone who this hits would die by collateral spell damage anyway. Suggest letting it blind creatures within a 15 foot cone regardless of HD, letting you aim it a bit.
Travel: Teleportation is always very nice! A strong pick.
Trickery: For usage limits, see notes on Luck. Much like Healing, having these spells available at all times is extremely useful as an escape/emergency trickery option.
War: I like the usage limit. Much like Luck, makes an unimpressive ability much much better. Solid, and a decent swing of damage in a group.
Weather: I'm rating this as pretty good because you can easily set up appropriate situations with your spells.


Extremely good:Animal, Knowledge, Plant
Solid and neat: Death, Healing, Luck, Protection, Sun, Travel, Trickery, War, Weather
Solid but unimpressive: Destruction, Magic- both of these boil down almost entirely to a bonus feat.
Not great or extremely niche: Charm, Darkness, Sun

Basically, those last five might need another look, everything else is good.

Lemmy
2017-10-07, 12:23 AM
Since this is back up, might as well continue my level-by-level review of the domain abilities. I'm trying to compare their relative power and utility.

Level 12:

Animal Domain: There are probably some pretty impressive things you can do with this- consider the power of doubling up on beast shape III, for example. A buff focused cleric loves this.
Charm: +2 DC is nice, but if you look at the rules for Diplomacy, this equates to a +5 conditional modifier to Diplomacy. Not the most impressive. Suggest something like maybe the effects of the attitude shift last for significantly longer?
Darkness: Feels bad. Minor resistance and a saving throw bonus to an extremely narrow class of creatures. Maybe a continuous blur effect while in dim light or darkness to buff this up? Something?
Death: Feels... decent. Extremely repeatable, useful ability. Comparable to a double-strength Lay On Hands (1x for damage, 1x for healing). You'll have better spells, but this is a solid default option.
Destruction: A natural progression of the Sunder-type abilities. Bypassing hardness is pretty important to have, so this lets you pick your weapons more freely. That said, a feat that only cares about critical hits is a bit of a limited ability. A solid but unimpressive level.
Healing: The ability to always have this spell as an option is very good to have. Extra healing granted is not very much at this level relative to the healing you do- it does make low-level cure spells much more efficient, though. A solid level, though the only real draw is the Breath of Life ability.
Knowledge: This is a very powerful tool to have at-will. It means always knowing what's behind the door, and always being able to overhear conversations.
Luck: A pretty impressive ability! Could be very swingy, letting you use the healing to turn around a fight. Makes a pretty bad low-level ability much better, which could be used as a pattern elsewhere- consider letting the cleric spend two uses of Bleeding Touch to use the 12th level ability.
Magic: This breaks the mold by having an upgrade at 18th level- very unusual! A bonus feat is nice but not great at this point.
Plant: A very powerful divinatory ability in the wild.
Protection: Damage spreading is always nice, and it multiplies the power of Channel Energy. Very solid
Sun: Eeeeeh. Does very little except against the weakest of foes. The undefined range makes it usable on a strategic level, but on a tactical level, anyone who this hits would die by collateral spell damage anyway. Suggest letting it blind creatures within a 15 foot cone regardless of HD, letting you aim it a bit.
Travel: Teleportation is always very nice! A strong pick.
Trickery: For usage limits, see notes on Luck. Much like Healing, having these spells available at all times is extremely useful as an escape/emergency trickery option.
War: I like the usage limit. Much like Luck, makes an unimpressive ability much much better. Solid, and a decent swing of damage in a group.
Weather: I'm rating this as pretty good because you can easily set up appropriate situations with your spells.


Extremely good:Animal, Knowledge, Plant
Solid and neat: Death, Healing, Luck, Protection, Sun, Travel, Trickery, War, Weather
Solid but unimpressive: Destruction, Magic- both of these boil down almost entirely to a bonus feat.
Not great or extremely niche: Charm, Darkness, Sun

Basically, those last five might need another look, everything else is good.

Thank you for the feedback.

It' true that not all 12th level powers are equal... My main focus is making the domains as a whole be balanced, even if they aren't equal on a level-by-level comparison. That said, you make very good points.

Charm domain... I honestly don't know what to give to this domain at this level. Like... No idea. At all. :smallsigh:

Your idea for the Darkness domain is pretty cool, I think i'll go with it. :smallsmile:

Destruction... I'm thinking of replacing Sundering Strike with a different ability... Maybe something akin to the Bonebreaker feat (but using Destructive Strike instead of Stunning Fist).

Magic Domain...Same problem as the Charm domain. I just don't know what to do... I thought about making it scale at levels 15 and 18, but it doesn't feel very fun or interesting.

For the Sun domain, I made the Solar Flare ability only take a swift action to be activated. That way, it's not all that powerful, but doesn't cost much from your action economy either.

Lemmy
2017-10-07, 01:33 AM
BTW, aimlessPolymath...

You should know that I now expect you to update your level-by-level analysis and comparative full domain analysis when all domains are done! :smallbiggrin:

khadgar567
2017-10-07, 01:56 AM
Is there a guide to create homebrew domains after we get the core domains checked? I can realy use some help for domains in my setting?

Lemmy
2017-10-07, 02:20 AM
Is there a guide to create homebrew domains after we get the core domains checked? I can realy use some help for domains in my setting?
Well... Not really a guide, but a few advices...

- First off, it's a good idea to check abilities of similar level and start from there.

- Remember: Clerics are powerful, so domain powers don't need to be particularly strong... But they should be interesting and fun!

- Taking a look at thematic spells that aren't too powerful or too weak is also a nice idea, but keep in mind that if you really want to give clerics extra casting of a certain spell, you should probably do it a few levels after that spell isn't the top level anymore (e.g.: giving a 1st level spell as an SLA or (Su) ability when the Cleric has access to 3rd~4th level spells). Of course, if the spell is extremely situational (like, say, Tree Shape), then it should be okay to give it early.

- Try to understand what players probably want when they take that domain. e.g.: My Healing Domain is has of Cha-based effects and buffs to Channel Energy and Cure spells, even though many (possibly most) Cleric builds don't focus on those... But a player who took the Healing domain almost certainly wants to focus on healing and restoration.

- Keep in mind that not everything needs to be limited to X uses per day. If the effect is very minor, doesn't scale much and/or requires serious action investment, it might be okay to just make it an at-will ability.

- Of course, try to avoid exploitable loopholes or overly powerful synergies... But don't lose your mind over it either. If players want to break something, they will break it.

Hope that helps! If you want more specific help, like suggestions for your custom domains, I'd be glad to help. :smallsmile:

As always, I also appreciate all feedback given. :smallbiggrin:

aimlessPolymath
2017-10-07, 01:59 PM
Eheheheh... not sure how much I'll be able to do for future domains. This takes a while to do.
I'm judging these level-by-level because it's not fair to domains to make them better at some levels but not at others. It violates one of the important rules of D&D otherwise- that two characters of equal level should be about as good as each other.

Advice for alternate domain abilities:
Charm domain:
-You gain a +5 bonus to Diplomacy checks against creatures under the effects of one of your mind-affecting spells.
-Your language-dependent spells have +3 DC against creatures with an attitude of at least Friendly towards you.

Destruction:
I really, really, want to see Shrapnel Strike, maybe buffed up a little. It's one of my pet feats.

Magic domain:
-Whenever you succeed on the Spellcraft check to identify a spell, you gain a +2 bonus to saving throws and dispel attempts against it.
-(Or: You gain spell resistance 5+level against it?)

Sun domain change is fine, I guess.

Level 16:

Animal: Not particularly strong, but not terrible either? It's a nice bit of versatility, letting you adapt to an appropriate environment or task.
Charm: I'm actually a bit surprised that this comes here- it feels similar to the other abilities at 12th level that affect Channel Energy. It's a decent ability, but one round of negation on these effects isn't fantastic, and can lock you into just using Channel Energy every round rather than dealing with the root cause.
Darkness: Hm. Fast Healing 1 is very little in-combat, but a lot out of combat, which doesn't work well with creating a stationary area- it's good for setting up a safehouse, but not good while traveling. Suggest changing it to DR 2/-, or a deflection bonus to AC.
Death: Immunities are decent, saving throw bonus is decent but narrow. I'm not going to sit up for it, but it's good to have.
Destruction: Fun and splashy, if not - hold on, 10d6 per cleric level has to be a typo.
Healing: Nice combo with Protection, and if you're taking damage too. Buut... fights at this level can be very swingy, and you might not be there in time. Breath of Life can bring people back, but then you can't cast Heal quickly... hm. One thing the healing domain is missing is the ability to cast touch spells at range, which needs to go somewhere in the domain. Not saying it goes here, but it should go somewhere. Also maybe casting Cure spells as a swift action, which would let you combo with Breath of Life more easily (maybe expend uses of Rebuke Death to do so?)
Knowledge: Solid but unimpressive. Sadly doesn't combo with Lore Keeper?
Luck: A handy AC buff, I suppose, and you can spread it around. Only one hit is sad, since iteratives are a thing now.
Magic: Very nice! Now you can have a whole Spell Resisted party.
Plant: Um. Is it just me or is this pretty bad? Reading the spell description, you get very little from the spell...
Protection: Good to have, if not fantastic. Depends who gets the shield, really.
Sun: Pew pew lasers! Daylight isn't good at this level sadly, but a very fun tool. Could go down a few levels and be balanced, but fine here.
Travel: Being able to teleport your whole party on a whim is incredibly good.
Trickery: Very neat, lets you escape a full attack when needed.
War: Um. Strictly better than Protection intentional?
Weather: Cool cool.



A-class:Travel
Solid and splashy: Animal, Magic, maybe Protection, Sun, Trickery, Weather
Solid but unimpressive: Death, Knowledge, Luck
Needs rework/buff: Charm(minor), Darkness(more), Healing (some crucial stuff missing in domain), Plant maybe
Broken AF:Destruction

I'm very happy with this level overall overall- lots of cool powers that I'd feel happy picking.

Lemmy
2017-10-07, 03:04 PM
Eheheheh... not sure how much I'll be able to do for future domains. This takes a while to do.
I'm judging these level-by-level because it's not fair to domains to make them better at some levels but not at others. It violates one of the important rules of D&D otherwise- that two characters of equal level should be about as good as each other. True... But isn't the complete pack that should be balanced, rather than specific pieces?


Advice for alternate domain abilities:
Charm domain:
-You gain a +5 bonus to Diplomacy checks against creatures under the effects of one of your mind-affecting spells.
-Your language-dependent spells have +3 DC against creatures with an attitude of at least Friendly towards you.

Destruction:
I really, really, want to see Shrapnel Strike, maybe buffed up a little. It's one of my pet feats.

Magic domain:
-Whenever you succeed on the Spellcraft check to identify a spell, you gain a +2 bonus to saving throws and dispel attempts against it.
-(Or: You gain spell resistance 5+level against it?)

Sun domain change is fine, I guess.Hmmm... Those are good ideas. I gotta think about it.
Shrapnel Strike is a pretty cool feat, BTW.


Level 16:

Animal: Not particularly strong, but not terrible either? It's a nice bit of versatility, letting you adapt to an appropriate environment or task.
Charm: I'm actually a bit surprised that this comes here- it feels similar to the other abilities at 12th level that affect Channel Energy. It's a decent ability, but one round of negation on these effects isn't fantastic, and can lock you into just using Channel Energy every round rather than dealing with the root cause.
Darkness: Hm. Fast Healing 1 is very little in-combat, but a lot out of combat, which doesn't work well with creating a stationary area- it's good for setting up a safehouse, but not good while traveling. Suggest changing it to DR 2/-, or a deflection bonus to AC.
Death: Immunities are decent, saving throw bonus is decent but narrow. I'm not going to sit up for it, but it's good to have.
Destruction: Fun and splashy, if not - hold on, 10d6 per cleric level has to be a typo.
Healing: Nice combo with Protection, and if you're taking damage too. Buut... fights at this level can be very swingy, and you might not be there in time. Breath of Life can bring people back, but then you can't cast Heal quickly... hm. One thing the healing domain is missing is the ability to cast touch spells at range, which needs to go somewhere in the domain. Not saying it goes here, but it should go somewhere. Also maybe casting Cure spells as a swift action, which would let you combo with Breath of Life more easily (maybe expend uses of Rebuke Death to do so?)
Knowledge: Solid but unimpressive. Sadly doesn't combo with Lore Keeper?
Luck: A handy AC buff, I suppose, and you can spread it around. Only one hit is sad, since iteratives are a thing now.
Magic: Very nice! Now you can have a whole Spell Resisted party.
Plant: Um. Is it just me or is this pretty bad? Reading the spell description, you get very little from the spell...
Protection: Good to have, if not fantastic. Depends who gets the shield, really.
Sun: Pew pew lasers! Daylight isn't good at this level sadly, but a very fun tool. Could go down a few levels and be balanced, but fine here.
Travel: Being able to teleport your whole party on a whim is incredibly good.
Trickery: Very neat, lets you escape a full attack when needed.
War: Um. Strictly better than Protection intentional?
Weather: Cool cool.



A-class:Travel
Solid and splashy: Animal, Magic, maybe Protection, Sun, Trickery, Weather
Solid but unimpressive: Death, Knowledge, Luck
Needs rework/buff: Charm(minor), Darkness(more), Healing (some crucial stuff missing in domain), Plant maybe
Broken AF:Destruction

I'm very happy with this level overall overall- lots of cool powers that I'd feel happy picking.
Oops! It was meant to be 1d6 per level... Dealing 560 damage on average with an at-will ability might be a tad too much... :smallbiggrin:

The war domain ability was meant to be "any weapon, but not shields...", thus making it an offensive ability compared to the Potection domain's defensive one.

Oh, and the healing domain does get the ability to cast cure spells from a distance... But only at 20th level. Maybe I should make it come into play earlier.

aimlessPolymath
2017-10-07, 07:39 PM
True... But isn't the complete pack that should be balanced, rather than specific pieces?
Well, yes, but you get the pieces bit-by-bit, not all at once, so if some people get the good bits earlier, that isn't fair. I'm comparing the bits you get at a given level to determine how they match up. If all the bits are equal, then the package is equal. If they aren't, then it's much harder to determine.


Animal: Hmm. Speak with Animals at will is pretty good, which makes up for the other ability not being very good- how often will duration come up at this point? If you're both injured, why not mass heal, or channel energy, since the rest of the party will be wounded too? Also, I needed to ask this earlier, but what if you never picked the level 4 ability?
Charm: Stylish and powerful. I like.
Darkness: Shadow Walk is cool, but you get it as a domain spell anyway. Also, feelsbad if you didn't get Blessed by Shadows.
Death: You can cast all those spells normally, but animate dead with no spell component is very nice, and always having them as options is pretty handy.
Destruction: Again, a number of these semi-require you to have specific abilities chosen earlier. This one is a pretty neat power, but it's going to be worse than the level 16 option in most situations.
Healing: Death from hp loss is just no longer a danger. It doesn't register. Very cool power for level 20!
Knowledge: Mmmm... could use a bit more than True Seeing, which is a domain spell. X-ray vision! Blindsight!
Luck: Statistically, this will trigger 1 out of every 6 rounds. Statistically, it will give about +0.5 to rolls. Statistically, that's terrible. It's a pretty bad power.
Magic: A powerful ability to use, except that it's only on domain spells. Would twiddle it to be any of a specific list of metamagic feats (the "make it bigger + better ones), but any spell.
Plant: Continues the theme of "get a domain spell 3/day". A somewhat better buff spell to get.
Protection: A +1 armor enchant equivalence.
Sun: A stylish and cool power!
Travel: Very cool! Very, very cool.
Trickery: A decent spell, but not great. It lasts hours by default, so it isn't much better than having the spell normally.
War: Not as cool. Divine Power is good but not amazing to have always ready, and Divine Favor barely registers.
Weather: Cool spell to have continuously. Reliance on a previous ability is a bit unfortunate.

Not doing the tier list because I'm tired. Specific domain notes are in the spoiler, but I note that these can be mostly sorted into two general categories:
-Domain spell 3/day plus a bit.
-Minor power that won't come up much (protection, luck)
-Really cool and stylish capstone abilities.
In addition, several of the abilities refer to earlier domain powers. While not bad, per se, I would reorganize the powers so that all "prerequisites" are at the same level. That way, there's no feelsbad when you, a Destruction/Weather priest, realizes you took neither Aura of Destruction nor Storm Walker because you wanted to be Thor.

Lemmy
2017-10-10, 08:48 AM
Well, yes, but you get the pieces bit-by-bit, not all at once, so if some people get the good bits earlier, that isn't fair. I'm comparing the bits you get at a given level to determine how they match up. If all the bits are equal, then the package is equal. If they aren't, then it's much harder to determine. I was more thinking about

X = A
X + Y = A + B,
X + Y + Z = A + B + C

But, you're right in that making sure that abilities of same level are equally powerful is a far easier and simpler to balance things than trying to balance every possible power combination.



Animal: Hmm. Speak with Animals at will is pretty good, which makes up for the other ability not being very good- how often will duration come up at this point? If you're both injured, why not mass heal, or channel energy, since the rest of the party will be wounded too? Also, I needed to ask this earlier, but what if you never picked the level 4 ability?
Charm: Stylish and powerful. I like.
Darkness: Shadow Walk is cool, but you get it as a domain spell anyway. Also, feelsbad if you didn't get Blessed by Shadows.
Death: You can cast all those spells normally, but animate dead with no spell component is very nice, and always having them as options is pretty handy.
Destruction: Again, a number of these semi-require you to have specific abilities chosen earlier. This one is a pretty neat power, but it's going to be worse than the level 16 option in most situations.
Healing: Death from hp loss is just no longer a danger. It doesn't register. Very cool power for level 20!
Knowledge: Mmmm... could use a bit more than True Seeing, which is a domain spell. X-ray vision! Blindsight!
Luck: Statistically, this will trigger 1 out of every 6 rounds. Statistically, it will give about +0.5 to rolls. Statistically, that's terrible. It's a pretty bad power.
Magic: A powerful ability to use, except that it's only on domain spells. Would twiddle it to be any of a specific list of metamagic feats (the "make it bigger + better ones), but any spell.
Plant: Continues the theme of "get a domain spell 3/day". A somewhat better buff spell to get.
Protection: A +1 armor enchant equivalence.
Sun: A stylish and cool power!
Travel: Very cool! Very, very cool.
Trickery: A decent spell, but not great. It lasts hours by default, so it isn't much better than having the spell normally.
War: Not as cool. Divine Power is good but not amazing to have always ready, and Divine Favor barely registers.
Weather: Cool spell to have continuously. Reliance on a previous ability is a bit unfortunate.
You make some good points here. I address it when I get on a PC, because writing on my cell phone is kinda of a pain. :smallbiggrin:

rferries
2017-10-10, 07:32 PM
1) Why Appraise? (not a criticism, I'm always in favour of more class skills).

2) Excellent idea re: 4 skill points/level, I agree it should be the new baseline for classes.

3) Do you need to have lower-level powers to qualify for higher level ones (e.g. no domain apotheosis unless you have all other powers from that domain)?

4) Monastic Training is great - what about Knowledge (the planes) too? It's always bugged me that the actual afterlife (Outer Planes) doesn't fall under Knowledge (religion) anyways.

The domains are all great. Some suggestions/comments (feel free to ignore -you have invested a HUGE amount of effort into these and it's definitely paid off, so my comments could well be tampering with a masterpiece).

5) In general, give constant low-level abilities for the low-level powers e.g. replace the base animal power with Wild Empathy (not as powerful as speak with animals, but nice to have as a backup). Buff the higher-level powers (Avatar of Destruction's 2d6 damage/round isn't very useful at 20th level).

6) Also in general, streamline it so that you need to spend channel energy uses to use the activated domain powers, a la [Divine] feats (and I readily admit that this is my pet concept).

7) Animal: Add the power to wild shape (animal only) as a druid of your cleric level to the apotheosis.
n.b. the Animal Companion ability is better than 99% of all other powers from the other domains, my other suggestions will try to buff the 4th-level powers of other domains to be as useful as an animal companion.

8) Charm: Apply Big Ego to all saves, and AC as well (as a nymph's unearthly grace). Spend channel energy attempts to duplicate charm/suggestion effects by preaching (same concept as the apotheosis power, really).

9) Darkness: Add +10/+20/etc % to how "real" your shadow spells are. Give the ability to become incorporeal/constant 10% concealment? Animal companion is still >> BlinD-Fight and low-light vision.

10) Death: Skeletal minion (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/specialistWizardVariants.htm#skeletalMinion) or undead companion (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeClasses/blackguard.htm) (as ex-paladin blackguard), matching Animal Companion.

11) Destruction: Greater Sunder hyperlink leads to Improved Sunder... and those feats are not as useful as an Animal Companion (running theme, haha!). Avatar of Destruction could be a constant effect that makes your attacks and spells overcome all forms of DR/hardness/regeneration.

12) Healing: Healer's Blessing could stack with Empower Spell? Gives you permanent fast healing?

13) Knowledge: Lore Keeper is brilliant! Devout Scholar can actually compete with Animal Companion too, IMHO! :)

14) Luck: Good Karma - another competitor for Animal Companion, but would be better if you could have multiple Karma points.

15) Magic: Almost as good as Animal Companion. The capstone is great - Quickened mage's disjunction ahoy!

16) Plant: Replace Growth with the benefits of Animal Companion for the leaf leshy.

17) Protection: Aura of Protection - make constant, and/or apply to saves too. Divine Body Armor - heavy fortification and/or unearthly grace.

18) Sun: Sun's Blessing - powerful but niche... blinding beauty as a nymph, maybe?

19) Travel: Fleet-Footed is good, arguably as good as an Animal Companion depending on the situation. Capstone is great.

20) Trickery: Give extra skill points to benefit from Blessed Trickery (as with Knowledge domain). Capstone is an example of a 20th-level ability that really is just duplicating a low-level spell... ideally would be at-will greater invisibility or somesuch.

21) War: Martial Training could include Tower Shields and an extra [Fighter] feat too.

22) Weather: Storm Walker ER could be buffed and could scale with level, but is otherwise very clever.

I didn't read all of the powers in-depth (i.e. picked the 4th-level powers as my hill to die on), but those I read all seemed quite nice. However in general I'd look at what spells are available to a cleric of the given level (or what class features are available to other classes), and give them domain powers of equivalent power (save with better durations/at-will/constant use, to make them more "special"). I do like how many of your domains grant a touch attack as the base power... my long-winded point is, it's easier to balance domains against each other if they follow similar progressions. Finally, think of how useful each power is a) in combat vs b) outside of combat (tricks, traps, social skills, etc)... ideally each domain could be useful in both scenarios using different powers.

23) Feats are nice. Amplified Channel is great. Domain Initiate could stand to grant full access to an extra domain though (or at least up to 8th-level spells/power of that domain, with a Domain Adept feat granting the remaining spells/powers).

You've got my creative juices flowing! I may try my hand at a 3.5 version too.

Lemmy
2017-10-11, 02:30 PM
Animal: Hmm. Speak with Animals at will is pretty good, which makes up for the other ability not being very good- how often will duration come up at this point? If you're both injured, why not mass heal, or channel energy, since the rest of the party will be wounded too? Also, I needed to ask this earlier, but what if you never picked the level 4 ability?Hmmm... True. I think I'll make Shared Blessings just an scaling effect of the Animal Companion power (or maybe a feat, so that Druids can benefit from it as well) and change the domain power into something different... Maybe give claws and/or scent to the Cleric?


Darkness: Shadow Walk is cool, but you get it as a domain spell anyway. Also, feels bad if you didn't get Blessed by Shadows.
Well... Yeah, being a domain spell means you can only cast it once, and it can be dispelled/disrupted/etc. Besides, having it as a handy (Su) ability means you can use your domain spell slot for a different spell. But I'm trying to think of something more interesting... Maybe the Cleric can instead spend an use of Touch of Darkness as a move action to cast Shadow step as a (Su)? Doesn't have the problem of the character possibly not having the required domain power, since Cleric get both basic powers.


Death: You can cast all those spells normally, but animate dead with no spell component is very nice, and always having them as options is pretty handy.I like this capstone, even without the Animate Dead (Su)... It has a bunch of cool, but situational spells at will. I was a bit worried about at-will Animate Dead, but then I remembered it already has a HD-limit ingrained into the spell itself, so it barely matters... Besides, the Cleric is saving what? 500 gp in spell components? That's less than lunch money at 20th level!


Destruction: Again, a number of these semi-require you to have specific abilities chosen earlier. This one is a pretty neat power, but it's going to be worse than the level 16 option in most situations.Hmm... Destruction is difficult... Because I want it to be cool and thematic, but without giving huge amounts of damage potential to Clerics. :smallsigh:. In any case, I changed it so that the Cleric spends a couple uses of the basic domain power, so there are no prerequisites the cleric doesn't get for sure.


Healing: Death from hp loss is just no longer a danger. It doesn't register. Very cool power for level 20!
Well, when you spend 20 levels being a heal-bot, you better be damn good at it! :smallbiggrin:


Knowledge: Mmmm... could use a bit more than True Seeing, which is a domain spell. X-ray vision! Blindsight!Well.. Yeah, it's a domain spell... But it's a 6th level domain spell that only lasts a few minutes and has a (admittedly insignificant) spell component cost... Maybe add a clause that makes the true seeing also apply to the Remote Viewing domain power?


Luck: Statistically, this will trigger 1 out of every 6 rounds. Statistically, it will give about +0.5 to rolls. Statistically, that's terrible. It's a pretty bad power.You're right... I changed it to something else:

Pushing Your Luck (Su): You can spend 1 use of your Bit of Luck domain power as a swift action to grant yourself a little luck: Roll 2d6. If you roll any number other than 2 or 7, you add +1d6 to the result all your rolls for your next turn. If you roll a 7, you instead add a +2d6 bonus, but if you roll a 2, you instead suffer a -1d6 penalty.


Magic: A powerful ability to use, except that it's only on domain spells. Would twiddle it to be any of a specific list of metamagic feats (the "make it bigger + better ones), but any spell.Good idea. I changed it so that it affects any cleric spell.


Plant: Continues the theme of "get a domain spell 3/day". A somewhat better buff spell to get.
I honestly don't know what to give to this domain at 20th level... I'm thinking of giving some plant-like qualities to the cleric... Immunity to disease/poison, can feed off sunlight, something like that.


Protection: A +1 armor enchant equivalence.
Good point. Criticals are quite deadly at 20th level, though... Hmm... Maybe expand it to 50% and let the Cleric reduce it to 25%, but grant the same bonus to all his allies?


Sun: A stylish and cool power!
Thanks, I really like it. I might sneak some bonus against fear effects as well... :smallbiggrin:


Travel: Very cool! Very, very cool.
Thanks! I'm thinking about how to make the 16th level domain power no require the 12th level one (although, to be fair, who'd pass up the chance to teleport as a move action :smalltongue:).


Trickery: A decent spell, but not great. It lasts hours by default, so it isn't much better than having the spell normally.
Hmmm... That's true... What if the Cleric constantly got the benefits of the Nondetection spell (but could turn it off it down if he wants) and could spend an use of the base domain power to become invisible as per the Invisibility spell??


War: Not as cool. Divine Power is good but not amazing to have always ready, and Divine Favor barely registers.
Well, he does get immunity to fear and disease as well... Actually, maybe fear and fatigue is a better fit for the theme... Perhaps allow the Cleric to cast Divine Favor as if Quickened too?


Weather: Cool spell to have continuously. Reliance on a previous ability is a bit unfortunate.
That's true... But I didn't want to make the 4th level ability completely pointless at 20th level. Hmm... Gonna think about this one.


In addition, several of the abilities refer to earlier domain powers. While not bad, per se, I would reorganize the powers so that all "prerequisites" are at the same level. That way, there's no feelsbad when you, a Destruction/Weather priest, realizes you took neither Aura of Destruction nor Storm Walker because you wanted to be Thor.
Indeed. I tried to remove as many "pre-requisites" as possible, or change them to only requiring the base domain power (since Clerics gain both of those anyway).

Ooph... That was a lot to write. Thank you very much for your interest and feedback. I hope you enjoy my work. :smallsmile:

Stay tuned for future updates!

Lemmy
2017-10-11, 03:24 PM
Wow... Another post with multiple points to address...

*takes a deep breath*

Here we go! :smallcool:


1) Why Appraise? (not a criticism, I'm always in favour of more class skills).
I have no idea. It's in the Cleric's list of class skills. I suppose it's so the Cleric can identify/appraise religious relics and stuff like that.


2) Excellent idea re: 4 skill points/level, I agree it should be the new baseline for classes.
Indeed!


3) Do you need to have lower-level powers to qualify for higher level ones (e.g. no domain apotheosis unless you have all other powers from that domain)?
Nope. Every 4 levels you pick one domain power of that level or lower.


4) Monastic Training is great - what about Knowledge (the planes) too? It's always bugged me that the actual afterlife (Outer Planes) doesn't fall under Knowledge (religion) anyways.Hmmm... I don't know... Many planes aren't particularly important to Clerics (e.g.: why would a cleric of the Deity of Justice be particularly knowledgeable about the Plane of Fire?) Keep in mind that the bonus does apply to subjects of particularly importance to the Cleric's faith, even if it's not Kn(Religion) check... So a the Cleric of that Deity of Justice might get the bonus on checks to remember/learn the local laws, for example.


The domains are all great. Some suggestions/comments (feel free to ignore -you have invested a HUGE amount of effort into these and it's definitely paid off, so my comments could well be tampering with a masterpiece).I always welcome suggestions, criticism and feedback. Even if I don't agree or implement it, you can be sure I'll at least take it into consideration.


5) In general, give constant low-level abilities for the low-level powers e.g. replace the base animal power with Wild Empathy (not as powerful as speak with animals, but nice to have as a backup). Buff the higher-level powers (Avatar of Destruction's 2d6 damage/round isn't very useful at 20th level).
Most base domain powers are just the original power from RAW, sometimes tweaked a little bit... I didn't add Wild Empathy because it's mostly useless and very boring... Speak With Animals, even limited, is way more fun!


6) Also in general, streamline it so that you need to spend channel energy uses to use the activated domain powers, a la [Divine] feats (and I readily admit that this is my pet concept).Hmm... I don't know. Many (likely most) Cleric builds put little to no emphasis in Charisma/Channel Energy... So I didn't want to force them to do it.


7) Animal: Add the power to wild shape (animal only) as a druid of your cleric level to the apotheosis.
n.b. the Animal Companion ability is better than 99% of all other powers from the other domains, my other suggestions will try to buff the 4th-level powers of other domains to be as useful as an animal companion.Yeah... Animal Domain is difficult to design... OTOH, his spells aren't very good.


8) Charm: Apply Big Ego to all saves, and AC as well (as a nymph's unearthly grace). Spend channel energy attempts to duplicate charm/suggestion effects by preaching (same concept as the apotheosis power, really).That'd be waaaay too good. Giving a better version of Divine Protection to a full-caster would make even the holiest of Paladins try to kill me! :smallbiggrin:


9) Darkness: Add +10/+20/etc % to how "real" your shadow spells are. Give the ability to become incorporeal/constant 10% concealment? Animal companion is still >> BlinD-Fight and low-light vision.I'm re-thinking the Darkness domain to be more useful... The 4th level domain power and the domain apotheosis are bugging me... :smallannoyed:


10) Death: Skeletal minion (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/specialistWizardVariants.htm#skeletalMinion) or undead companion (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeClasses/blackguard.htm) (as ex-paladin blackguard), matching Animal Companion.
I was thinking of buffing the "One of Us" ability, but I'm not sure about giving it a full-scale undead companion.


11) Destruction: Greater Sunder hyperlink leads to Improved Sunder... and those feats are not as useful as an Animal Companion (running theme, haha!). Avatar of Destruction could be a constant effect that makes your attacks and spells overcome all forms of DR/hardness/regeneration.As a constant effect, it would be too good, but might be a possible use of the Destructive Smite ability. Not sure... This is another domain whose apotheosis I'm rethinking. In any case, it might eb just me, but I don't value Animal Companions that much... They are great and all, but they wouldn't be my first choice of class feature.


12) Healing: Healer's Blessing could stack with Empower Spell? Gives you permanent fast healing?
Permanent FH would be too good. Specially at 4th level. This is the original power of the domain... I might buff it a little to make it more useful, but I'd rather give a nifty secondary ability to cure spells than just increase their raw power.


13) Knowledge: Lore Keeper is brilliant! Devout Scholar can actually compete with Animal Companion too, IMHO! :)
I'd rather have skill points than an Animal Companion... XD


14) Luck: Good Karma - another competitor for Animal Companion, but would be better if you could have multiple Karma points.
Well... Although you can't have multiple Karma points, the ability can still be used multiple times a day.


15) Magic: Almost as good as Animal Companion. The capstone is great - Quickened mage's disjunction ahoy!
Glad you like it. :smallsmile:


16) Plant: Replace Growth with the benefits of Animal Companion for the leaf leshy.
Nah... Woodland Strike is mostly a flavor ability.


17) Protection: Aura of Protection - make constant, and/or apply to saves too. Divine Body Armor - heavy fortification and/or unearthly grace.
Yet another domain whose apotheosis I'll probably going to change... Don' know about making Aura of Protection a constant effect, but I might change its type of bonus.


18) Sun: Sun's Blessing - powerful but niche... blinding beauty as a nymph, maybe?
I'll almost certainly buff Solar Flare. Not entirely sure how, though.


19) Travel: Fleet-Footed is good, arguably as good as an Animal Companion depending on the situation. Capstone is great.
Everyone loves the Travel domain! :smallbiggrin:


20) Trickery: Give extra skill points to benefit from Blessed Trickery (as with Knowledge domain). Capstone is an example of a 20th-level ability that really is just duplicating a low-level spell... ideally would be at-will greater invisibility or somesuch.I think Blessed Trickery is fine... There are some really good Ninja Tricks.


21) War: Martial Training could include Tower Shields and an extra [Fighter] feat too.
Tower shields suck... But getting a bonus Combat feat might be a good idea...


22) Weather: Storm Walker ER could be buffed and could scale with level, but is otherwise very clever.
Another one I want to buff a little bit... Gotta work on this one.


I didn't read all of the powers in-depth (i.e. picked the 4th-level powers as my hill to die on), but those I read all seemed quite nice. However in general I'd look at what spells are available to a cleric of the given level (or what class features are available to other classes), and give them domain powers of equivalent power (save with better durations/at-will/constant use, to make them more "special"). I do like how many of your domains grant a touch attack as the base power... my long-winded point is, it's easier to balance domains against each other if they follow similar progressions. Finally, think of how useful each power is a) in combat vs b) outside of combat (tricks, traps, social skills, etc)... ideally each domain could be useful in both scenarios using different powers.I think most domains have something cool to do both in and out of combat... Although some do focus more on one situation or the other (makes sense that the War domain is mostly focused on combat, after all).


23) Feats are nice. Amplified Channel is great. Domain Initiate could stand to grant full access to an extra domain though (or at least up to 8th-level spells/power of that domain, with a Domain Adept feat granting the remaining spells/powers).I don't want a single feat to give access to everything else the feat has... And I don't know what other domain-based feats are around. Too many to count. :smalltongue:


You've got my creative juices flowing! I may try my hand at a 3.5 version too.
This version isn't too difficult to adapt... Mostly just change the class skills and give x4 skill points at first level. Maybe let characters choose between Channel Energy and Rebuke Undead.

Anyway... Thank you for you interest and feedback. I hope my little project can make your games even more enjoyable. :smallsmile:

aimlessPolymath
2017-10-12, 01:55 PM
Responses to your response.
I'm just going to churn out some possible alternatives/modifications to the existing powers.

Animal: Minor shapeshifting would be fully appropriate for natural weapon generation. Maybe as a swift action, you can create a natural weapon with a small benefit attached?
Darkness Apotheosis- New version looks good.
Destruction: Eeeh. It still doesn't feel especially impressive damage-wise. There are lots of features that deal 10d6 per round, easily, at this level. If anything, I could see it being swapped for the level 16 feature. Or alternatively:
Entropy: As a standard action, choose a creature you can see. It makes a Fortitude save and a Will save. If it fails the Fortitude save, it takes double damage (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/l/litany-of-righteousness) from all sources. If it fails the Will save, it cannot benefit from healing. If both are failed, it takes 1 point of Con drain per round. These effects last until you die, it dies, or use this ability on another creature.
Knowledge: What I'd really like to do is to qualitatively distinguish non-level 20 from level 20. Using it through remote viewing is one option. Another is maybe whenever you use true seeing, whether through the domain power or not, you also share the effect with all allies within 60 ft.
Luck looks good now.
Magic is missing part of my comment, which is to restrict it to a subset of metamagic feats. I'm not sure, but I'm fairly sure it would be busted otherwise (quicken anything, 3.5e persist-cheese maybe)
Plant: I'd be OK with copying domain spells, as long as they have their own twist to it. Maybe you can meld with a plant you animate, making it into power armor? Maybe whenever you animate plants, you simultaneously entangle everything within a 100 foot radius?
Protection: Mmm. Not super sold on this one in general. It's something that won't often come up, and will only have moderate effects when it does. What about, like, a massive pool of temporary hit points, shared communally, but you choose the type of damage it works against? Or a pool of points to spend on AC/Saving throws, up to 10 per roll? It would provide many of the same defensive benefits, but could be more broadly applicable.
Trickery change sounds great!
War: Divine favor is a +3 bonus to attack and damage. Having it constant wouldn't be game-breaking, I don't think.

Lemmy
2017-10-17, 12:32 PM
Hey, aimlessPolymath! Sorry it took me so long to reply... I got a lot of free time this week, but when I felt like homebrewing I decided work on my Mage class and finally take it to a point where it's actually playable (although still incomplete).


Animal: Minor shapeshifting would be fully appropriate for natural weapon generation. Maybe as a swift action, you can create a natural weapon with a small benefit attached? Yeah... I'm thinking about revamping Animal and Plant domains a bit... I'll post the prototype of the new versions later.


Darkness Apotheosis- New version looks good.
Glad you like it. :smallsmile:


Destruction: Eeeh. It still doesn't feel especially impressive damage-wise. There are lots of features that deal 10d6 per round, easily, at this level. If anything, I could see it being swapped for the level 16 feature. Or alternatively:
Entropy: As a standard action, choose a creature you can see. It makes a Fortitude save and a Will save. If it fails the Fortitude save, it takes double damage (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/l/litany-of-righteousness) from all sources. If it fails the Will save, it cannot benefit from healing. If both are failed, it takes 1 point of Con drain per round. These effects last until you die, it dies, or use this ability on another creature.
Yeah... Taking double damage/con drain is a little much... Even for 20th level, Apotheosis abilities should be more cool than powerful.


Knowledge: What I'd really like to do is to qualitatively distinguish non-level 20 from level 20. Using it through remote viewing is one option. Another is maybe whenever you use true seeing, whether through the domain power or not, you also share the effect with all allies within 60 ft.hmmm... I'll think about it.


Luck looks good now.Thanks. :)


Magic is missing part of my comment, which is to restrict it to a subset of metamagic feats. I'm not sure, but I'm fairly sure it would be busted otherwise (quicken anything, 3.5e persist-cheese maybe)Yeah, i added a clause that says you can't use the ability if the metamagic feat would push the spell to a level you aren't able to cast. That should cut most of the cheese, I think.


Plant: I'd be OK with copying domain spells, as long as they have their own twist to it. Maybe you can meld with a plant you animate, making it into power armor? Maybe whenever you animate plants, you simultaneously entangle everything within a 100 foot radius?Yeah... Plant domain is probably gonna be changed considerably.


Protection: Mmm. Not super sold on this one in general. It's something that won't often come up, and will only have moderate effects when it does. What about, like, a massive pool of temporary hit points, shared communally, but you choose the type of damage it works against? Or a pool of points to spend on AC/Saving throws, up to 10 per roll? It would provide many of the same defensive benefits, but could be more broadly applicable.That's a cool idea... Something to consider.


Trickery change sounds great!
Glad you like it.


War: Divine favor is a +3 bonus to attack and damage. Having it constant wouldn't be game-breaking, I don't think.
Hmmm... Constant Divine Favor actually sounds pretty good. I'll add that and keep the abiltiy to spontaneously cast Divine Power as well.

aimlessPolymath
2017-10-17, 04:55 PM
More cool than powerful, huh?

Destruction ability attempt #2:
Rain of Destruction:
Once per day, when you cast a spell with a casting time of no more than one minute which affects an area, you can turn the spell into a siege weapon. The area of the spell is increased by a factor of 5. This does not stack with Widen Spell. Furthermore, you may continue to channel the spell after you have cast it by maintaining concentration on it. If you do, the spell is cast again for each minute that you continue to channel, up to two extra castings.

Intended to multiply spells like shout, storm of vengeance, fire storm, earthquake, the holy word group, maybe some aura-based spells. Basically any area spell becomes instantly ten times awesomer.

Possibly not destruction-related enough- there are a number of buff spells which affect areas, and Hymn of Peace is the opposite of what you want.


3 passive abilities that I'm not as happy about, but would still be decent options (feel free to mix & match):

Try #3:
Inevitability: Half of the damage of your spells and abilities is now irresistible divine damage that can not be reduced by any means. Furthermore, each time you do damage in this way, you also do 2 points of Con and Charisma damage to the target.

2 Con/Cha damage is around 1 point per HD of the target, or around 1 hit point per caster level on average.

Try #4:
Judgement: The damage from your spells and abilities can no longer be healed by any means. An Atonement spell ends this effect, as does a wish or miracle. Furthermore, you can choose to designate any number of targets to take no damage from your spells and abilities. Creatures killed by damage you deal from spells and abilities are instantaneously vaporized, leaving behind only their equipment.

#5:
Total Annihilation:
Those slain by your spells and abilities can not be resurrected by any means, nor can they rise as undead, or survive death through some ability. Those reduced below 0 hit points by your spells and abilities are instantly slain regardless of other abilities they possess.