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Princess
2017-05-14, 07:39 PM
A random npc has inspired me to consider some combination of Fighter and/or Rogue with Wizard to try and make a hybrid warrior caster who can handle both melee and ranged combat fairly well. I'm leaning strongly towards Dex as their main stat, followed by int and con, and the goal is to come up with something Adventurer's League allowed. So Any option in the PHB is good to go, and one of Elemental Evil, Sword Coast, or Volo's Monsters is allowed but not more than one.

Has anyone tried something like this before? At what point in the build would Fighter or Wizard levels offer diminishing returns? Would you rather have extra options from Wizard levels or just more sneak attack dice from Rogue? Ideally the character wants to be casting spells soon (Eldritch Knight or Arcane Trickster might work if Wizard levels are saved for later), but by 6th level there should be some variety of magic options in addition to being a decent bow and finesse warrior. I especially welcome input from anyone who has tried something like this before.

RickAllison
2017-05-14, 09:04 PM
For being a good finesse-wielder, you can't go wrong with the two SCAG cantrips, Booming and Green-Flame Blade. You appear to want something a little more martial, however, someone who fires bows and relies on their weapon combat rather than spells for damage, or at least combining the two. The desire to use a ranged weapon rather than cantrips is the particularly difficult aspect to reconcile, as few wizard components play as nicely with ranged weapons.

To that end, your best option may be Eldritch Knight 7 to 10. This lets you enjoy a bonus ASI for your MADness, gain War Magic to combine your cantrips with weapon attacks (Minor Illusion+heavy crossbow is a great option, as you can use the illusion to create a barrier to sight so you can always attack with advantage/normally if you have disadvantage), gives you a nice spellcasting base (up to 2nd-level spells at level 10), you can pick up Indomitable so you can survive a saving throw when you most need it (very nice for someone who may have to stand alone), and you can inflict disadvantage on saving throws so your low-level, single-target, but powerful spells can hit more often.

Alternatively, straight Arcane Trickster also works for this, and either 9 or 11 should be your breakpoint. 9 gives you the ability to inflict disadvantage when you are hidden from the target (note: this does mean that you don't need to be hidden from everyone, just the target), which is rather easy thanks to your Cunning Action. 11 also qualifies as a breakpoint thanks to Reliable Talent. If your primary trick in combat is to Hide and strike, then having it so your minimum is 23+ means that you can pull ridiculous Hides in combat. Remember that darkvision only lets you see as if an area is dim light which inflicts disadvantage (-5 to passive Perception) and suddenly even ancient dragons became possible to hide from flawlessly if you are at range.

At those points, multiclassing into Wizard becomes quite profitable. You certainly have reasons to stay single-classed, but those points give you some of the best options where you can then move into the Wizard class for lateral growth.

For your wizard, I would heavily look at Bladesinger. For AL, you are stuck with the race restriction, and your weapons must be one-handed to not break Bladesong. Oh-so-conveniently, Rogues and Fighters gain the ability to use hand crossbows, which are one-handed ranged weapons. You can thus fight perfectly well from a skirmishing range as a Bladesinger, and a Bladesinger/Arcane Trickster is particularly potent. Since this is the only wizard archetype with Extra Attack and with no current methods within the class to significantly boost ranged weapons, this or a primary non-wizard class are your best options for this kind of PC.

One multiclass that could also work as a total-mage, ranged-weapon, primary-wizard is a drow Wizard with a Warlock dip. This further bumps your MADness, but Hex is a great way to boost your ranged weapon's damage while giving you magical versatility far exceeding the EK/AT builds. Since you lose the bonus ASIs, gain a new stat to worry about (you would have to go down to either 12 Con or 13 Int/16 Dex to start with), and need a feat to take advantage of Extra Attack with the hand crossbow (and get an extra one...), you would need to focus your spells on utility because your save DC and attack bonus will suffer. for the sake of your Dex. In exchange, you will have up to three attacks at 2d6+Dex each, as well as a huge amount of spellcasting versatility.

Clone
2017-05-15, 09:44 AM
There are a lot of good options to go with, but as I'm currently playing a Bladesinger with a mix of melee and ranged using spells for utility rather than normal damage, I'll leave my two cents.

I think a single level of fighter at the beginning would suit the build the best. Tiny Hp bump, second wind, CON proficiency to combo with bladesong buff and heavy armor if you decide bladesinging isn't what you want at the time. Picking up either the archery fighting style, defense or my favorite: two-weapon fighting.

Duel wielding shortswords when in combat and taking warcaster at 5th level means you have decent damage output early levels, picking up mirror image and/or blur to increase your evasiveness, and using shield or absorb elements to further increase that. At level 6 you get 3rd level spells so pick up haste and use the SCAG cantrips. That way you Booming blade, get the extra attack from haste which allows you to attack with your offhand. Then at 7th level you get extra attack to help with your archery. You don't lose out on spellcasting and assuming a 14 in CON and 16 in INT, your concentration checks start off as +7 at level 3 and +8 with advantage at level 5, meaning only a nat 1 against attacks dealing 22 damage or less will drop concentration. There is also the boost at level 15 of adding INT to each attack.

The way I've played my Bladesinger (only level 4 so far, so not too far) I wasn't allowed multiclass, so I use my longbow in most instances and when I need to melee or bladesong, I switch to my rapier and use the Green-Flame Blade.

Catullus64
2017-05-15, 11:03 AM
I'm presently playing Fighter 2/Wizard (Bladesinger) 10. My overall thoughts on the build after a goodly number of hours of playtime:

Mobility itself is excellent: between Bladesong's +10 boost, the Mobile feat, teleportation spells, and Haste as my go-to combat buff, there has never been a scenario where I was unable to get to where I needed to be in a fight, and moving in and out of melee means that my character takes noticeably less damage than the rest of the party. Granted, my DM makes heavy use of positioning and split objectives in his combat, and we do play using a grid. Sheer speed and maneuverability may be less essential at your table.

Survivability is fantastic given the number of strong defensive reactions and buffs from Wizard spells, and the combo of Fighter's CON save proficiency + Bladesong's Concentration Bonus means that this character has never once flubbed a concentration save. The Fighter abilities and Bladesong mean that you benefit more from short rests than standard wizards, which has been a godsend.

Consistent melee damage output has been somewhat more difficult. The Dueling Fighting Style and Action Surge from the Fighter levels have helped offset this slightly, but in hindsight Two-Weapon Fighting may have been a better investment, as my Bonus Action is nowhere near as busy as I anticipated. If you want to deal significant melee damage, the Arcane Trickster/Wizard build that previous posters have suggested is probably a better choice.

Overall, my philosophy on the build is that, from a mechanical perspective, you are essentially functioning like a normal Wizard. A normal Wizard should ideally be standing in the backline, maintaining some potent concentration effect (Haste, Wall Spells, Summons, etc.) while chipping away at enemies with cantrips and the occasional non-concentration damage or debuff spell. A skirmisher Wizard is essentially doing the same thing, just replace chipping away with cantrips with darting in and out of the frontline slicing at enemies.