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Donovan
2007-08-01, 01:13 PM
I am currently DMing an evil-based, urban campaign. Basically, the PCs are assassins and saboteurs attempting to corrupt a small NG city (a heavily modified version for Saltmarsh from DMG2, actually). Anyways, one of my players has expressed interest in integrate trap use with his character. I was wondering if anybody knew of rules for creating and, more importantly, installing *mid-range* traps. I am not looking for the Combat Trapsmith (who has traps that are a little too short term), however the DMG trap crafting rules are too large scale in nature (they are more for making room sized, built in traps it seems). I was wondering if there were rules available to, say, let the player build trap kits then install them in somebody house when they aren't around, for example. I was just wondering if there were already rules on the topic before I homebrew something together.

Miles Invictus
2007-08-01, 01:37 PM
Could you give some examples of what a mid-range trap is, exactly?

The core trap listings include arrow traps, dart traps, tripwires, and the like. Those all sound fairly portable; the challenge will be increasing their CR so they're appropriate to the player's targets.

Keld Denar
2007-08-01, 01:38 PM
Spell traps only require craft wonderous item, a little time, and some gold and xp. Pick a spell, bam, you got a trap.

Mechanical traps are a little different. IMO, they don't work very well like you specified. Most of them involve removing or replacing parts of the wall and floor. Some things that might work are the ol' crossbow + tripwire trap, especially for coming out of a hallway into a room. Apply poison at your own risk.

Neverwinter Nights had a very simplified trapping system, where the PC just bought (or recovered via disarm) traps, carried them around, and then made a set trap check to place the trap on the floor. Anything that walked across that floor was subject to the trap damage, which scaled with the level of the trap and the DCs to set, disable, and detect them. Traps were basically glorified glyphs of warding with a damage type and amount. This would be the most simple thing to do, but it lacks any real flavor or color other than "you step there and take damage from fire/spikes/acid/cold/etc"

Donovan
2007-08-01, 02:07 PM
What I meant by mid-range trap is something along the lines of a hinged blade bolted along side of a door with a tripwire, a crossbow pointed at a door with it's trigger tied to the doorknob, a poison gas sphere attacked to a door's jam; things along those lines. I was specifically not talking about a crushing room trap.

My problem is that the rules regarding these sorts of improvised or modular traps don't mesh well with the current DMG rules. Case in point: Razor-Wire across Hallway is a CR 1 trap in the DMG. It costs 400gp. Using standard craft rules, we convert that into silver pieces for 4000sp. We then make weekly craft rolls against the craft DC of 20. Lets say the player has a Craft(trapmaking) of +10 and takes 10 for each weeks work. Thats (10+10) x 20 = 400sp worth of work on that trap for that week. So, it will require this player 10 weeks and about 140 gp to create razor wire to stretch across the hallway. Does that sound really wrong to anybody else? I'm assuming that our intrepid assassin can make the razor wire at home, and then install it in the 15 minutes it would take anybody in the real world. 10 weeks to make razor wire though? I could see this level of work being required if you wished to install a crushing ceiling trap, but for something as low tech as this seems ridiculous.

I can't be the first person to notice how illogical this seems, so I figured there had to be alternate rules available.

tannish2
2007-08-01, 02:49 PM
well maybe require craft(blacksmithing) to make razor wire, and craft (trapsmithing) to set it up, maybe take 10 minutes, an hour, something like that, or do something like they did with traps in NWN, u use craft(trapmaking) to make one, and you can set it up wherever you like in a couple minutes, instead of days, so maybe swinging weapon traps or dart traps would be the normal DC to make, simple to set up with a stone shape spell to install it, but otherwise a pain in the ass, or lower the search DC

Bassetking
2007-08-01, 02:51 PM
You're... looking at the situation from the wrong angle...

The "Trapmaking" involved there wouldn't be the creation of the wire to place in the trap, but rather the actual action of nailing a piece of wire across the hallway.

So, it's taking you ten weeks to hammer two nails into the walls.

Congrats, you're a contractor on a federally funded project.

Quietus
2007-08-01, 03:00 PM
I generally let people be creative with traps; If you have Object A, Object B, and Object C, and you can describe how you want to set them up in a paragraph, awesome. Make a craft (trapmaking) check. That check sets the spot/search DC that monsters will have to beat to realize it's there. If you want, for example, to use a tripline that fires a crossbow, and you happen to have a length of rope and a crossbow, make the roll - I'll apply -2 circumstance for improvised tools (rope is easy to see), but you can still DO it. If you happen to have a simple thin cord, then that's a straight roll, and if you have went to the trouble of buying well-made, nearly invisible cord, +2 for masterwork tools.

Then you only need to worry about the cost of a thin cord, instead of 400 GP as the DMG suggests.

Donovan
2007-08-01, 03:10 PM
I generally let people be creative with traps; If you have Object A, Object B, and Object C, and you can describe how you want to set them up in a paragraph, awesome. Make a craft (trapmaking) check. That check sets the spot/search DC that monsters will have to beat to realize it's there. If you want, for example, to use a tripline that fires a crossbow, and you happen to have a length of rope and a crossbow, make the roll - I'll apply -2 circumstance for improvised tools (rope is easy to see), but you can still DO it. If you happen to have a simple thin cord, then that's a straight roll, and if you have went to the trouble of buying well-made, nearly invisible cord, +2 for masterwork tools.

Then you only need to worry about the cost of a thin cord, instead of 400 GP as the DMG suggests.

That's pretty much how I was thinking of doing it, especially since I'm more interested in telling a story and having fun, not rolling dice. It was really more of a "WTF" sort of thing when I tried to sit down and figure out the rules.

hewhosaysfish
2007-08-01, 03:16 PM
Dammit, now I want to play a trap-smith wizard who uses Fabricate to created crushing-ceiling traps in 30 seconds...