I Challenge You to Break the UA Mystic

[QUARE]

My DM is doing a one-on-one practice run of the newest Mystic with me. He told me he wanted it a broken as possible. All books and UAs are allowed, as are feats and multi classing. Do your worst Playgrounders!

[sightlessrealit]

My DM is doing a one-on-one practice run of the newest Mystic with me. He told me he wanted it a broken as possible. All books and UAs are allowed, as are feats and multi classing. Do your worst Playgrounders!

Kay, 6th Lv+ Lore Master Wizard with 6th lv Wu jin Mystic.

[jaappleton]

After playing a Mystic, I'll be brutally honest... Its kinda overrated.

I was super excited for it. But in play, it's not so hot.

The best you can do is utilize Cloak of Air, uses Bestial Form for +2 to AC, and focus on Mastery of Wood & Earth. You've got +3 AC, and Disadvantage on attack rolls to hit you.

But you're spending Concentration on Cloak of Air. You've spend 5PP so far.

What can you do for offense? Yeah, you're tough to hit at that point. No doubt about that at all.

But you can't swing a sword as well as a martial class, or a half caster like the Paladin. You've spend some of your points so you can't utilize all of them to be a blaster like a mage. And you've got massive AC, but why bother if you're in the back slinging damage effects?

So you're tough to hit but can't do so much damage.

And all you've boosted is your AC. There's one Discipline that lets you boost your saving throws, for when the DM throws AoEs at you, but then you're burning more PP.

[Khrysaes]

My DM is doing a one-on-one practice run of the newest Mystic with me. He told me he wanted it a broken as possible. All books and UAs are allowed, as are feats and multi classing. Do your worst Playgrounders!

I think a 1 level dip into mystic (Nomad) is the most broken, especially since the mystic falls off in power past level 10 since it doesn't get anything above a comparable 6th level spell. The 4th level option is interesting if you don't start as a mystic, considering you may not have wisdom proficiency. Does this mean you just get a free variable proficiency?

As for why I think 1 level is best?

3 Disciplines, and 1 talent. since many of the talents aren't good without the opponent passing a save, pick Mind Meld, granting better telepathy than the level 2 ability. Pick something else if you go more than 1 level, but keep in mind saves, my favorites are at will charm and the invisibility against 1 enemy.

Nomad gives you two proficiencies with skills, tools or languages, that you can change out every long rest. Making you quite versatile. And I always enjoy versatility.

Disciplines. Nomad has Nomadic Mind, which grants the same as above but as a bonus action. proficiency at will. Combine with rogue 11, never roll below a 14, I think at that time, grows to 16.

The rest depend on what you want to build. Intellect fortress combines well with Bear totem Barbarian. Granting resistance to psychic damage. Then you have resistance to everything while raging.

I personally like the two that grant advantage to Stealth checks. Others that grant advantage to checks are useful as well.

For an Archer you would want Nomadic Arrow.

There is one that gives you 1/2 your Int modifier to Cha checks, which could be useful if you want to be a face. Although, I think a bard/rogue with expertise on Intimidate, Insight, Persuasion, and Deception may be better. You could take 1 level and get the three Disciplines that net you advantage on Intim, Persuade, and Deception.

Giant Growth would be really useful especially when combined with tunnel fighting(also in UA), and Polearm Mastery. Giving you even more reach for endless reactions. With sentinel they can't move afterwards. And a Vengence Paladin 7, can move afterwards.

Adaptave body is interesting, but not really broken.

There is 1 that gives you advantage on initiative roles, but you can get that with 1 ranger, and so much more.

Third Eye, and Master of darkness grant darkvision. Although 2 warlock gets better darkvision.

Brute Force would be good on a grappler or shield user for the advantage on athletics.

As you can see, while not innately broken, the mystic as a dip, even for 1 level, can augment So many different non magical character builds.

An option by the way, is to make a Blade Warlock/Mystic, with whatever weapon type you want from the UA with hexblade, archfey gets the moonbow, and Hexblade gets the great sword. Multiclass fighter or ranger too, and pick up the fighting style suited to it.

Mystic doesn't do much for this build past level 10, so take 10 mystic, starting of course in a different class so you can use strength of mind for free... Be a Wu Jen, and use the 64 psi points to fuel your Smites with the Warlock Weapon, and Disciplines to augment it. 64 points can convert to 9 5th level slots, the highest a mystic can use. you also get couple low level warlock slots that recharge on a short rest so that you never run out of smites. Wu Jen also nets you a couple spells, allowing you to take Find Familiar, and a couple others that are more useful, like invisibility or some such.

a 14th level Wu Jen combined with Bear Barbarian would also work, since you have resistance to most/all types of damage, the feature is uniquely suited to the character with limited immunity to any damage. I would say you could combine it with the aforementioned warlock, but I believe you need 5 levels to get one of the weapons.

I didn't think about this at first, but in the Warlock version, if you could convince your DM that Scout Fighter(also a UA) gets the Natural Explorer of Revised Ranger, then that option is probably better than choosing ranger. Alternatively, take 3 Battlemaster and 2 Spell-less revised ranger, and have 5 maneuvers known and 8 dice to use them, as well as two fighting styles.(tunnel fighter and GWM)

[DragonSorcererX]

1. Be a Soul Knife.
2. Use the Soul Knife thing of reducing an AC to 10.
3. Pump everything you can on this attack.
4. Profit.

[nmitchell2]

My DM is doing a one-on-one practice run of the newest Mystic with me. He told me he wanted it a broken as possible. All books and UAs are allowed, as are feats and multi classing. Do your worst Playgrounders!

Just a tad late to the party but my personal favourite is to dip three levels of Immortal Mystic on an Abjuration Wizard. Temp HP stacks with Arcane Ward, giving you a nice buffer before enemies get to your actual HP and you have decent AC with Immortal Durability. You're a Wizard with 9th level spells, it's not like you're strapped for options on your turn either. This build would start with one level of Mystic before jumping out to Wizard until at least Mystic 1/Wizard 6 and would have to choose wisely when to get the next two levels of Mystic.

[Kaliayev]

My DM is doing a one-on-one practice run of the newest Mystic with me. He told me he wanted it a broken as possible. All books and UAs are allowed, as are feats and multi classing. Do your worst Playgrounders!

Check out carrdrivesyou's guide (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?542539-Mind-Over-Matter-A-Guide-to-the-5e-Mystic) for an analysis of the class overall. Personally, I would like to try an arcane trickster/order of the nomad mystic combo. Ideally, you would end up 11 rogue/9 mystic. Go into combat with your focus on nomadic step and your concentration on enduring invisibility. Wreak havoc with nightcrawler level poofing and sneak attacking.

[carrdrivesyou]

Check out carrdrivesyou's guide (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?542539-Mind-Over-Matter-A-Guide-to-the-5e-Mystic) for an analysis of the class overall. Personally, I would like to try an arcane trickster/order of the nomad mystic combo. Ideally, you would end up 11 rogue/9 mystic. Go into combat with your focus on nomadic step and your concentration on enduring invisibility. Wreak havoc with nightcrawler level poofing and sneak attacking.

I appreciate the shout-out! Also, I actually built a character using that exact strategy. Results were mixed depending on terrain type (open areas and tight spaces were bad while alleyways and rooftops were excellent). But there are always different circumstances.

What I have built looks good on paper, but have not yet tested out. Try the following build:

11 fighter (Battlemaster), 9 mystic (Immortal)
Disciplines of note: Brute Force, Giant Growth, Diminution
Talents: Blind Spot
Feats: PAM, GWM, Sentinel
Race: Bugbear

STR 20 (16 base, +4 from ASIs)
DEX 14
CON 14
INT 14
WIS 9
CHA 8

AVG HP 154

Weapon: Halberd Three attacks (d10s), + bonus action attack (d4)
+2d6 per hit (Bludg) from giant growth
+5 Strength damage per hit (15-20)
+10 damage GWM (per hit)

Total: 3d10 + 8d6 + 15 damage per turn, and your choice of + 1d4 or + 1-7d6 from Brute Force

+5 feet racial reach
+5 feet focus reach on giant growth
+10 feet reach from Giant form
+5 Reach from weapon

+ Stealth
Saves: Strength, Constitution, Wisdom, Intelligence (Wisdom can be swapped out as needed each long rest)



Pros:
30 foot reach and you are HUGE
56-123 damage per turn before bonus actions
Have all saving throws needed with planning
Decent HP
Heavy Armor (Or medium with DEX, your choice)
Free Stealth Proficiency

Cons:
YOU ARE HUGE. YOU CANNOT BE MORE OF A TARGET.
Full Fighters will have slightly more HP


Overall: You are a massive target, but one that brings the pain. Shift into Giant Form, and focus on Diminution. Use Blind Spot to get into position with your still advantaged ridiculously ironic stealth, and then bring some pain. Once the fight starts, you'll take some hits, but your armor should be able to help you avoid a fair amount of hits. You'll have 30 tHP from giant form, and a 2tHP buffer each round after that.

I really wanna play this, but I just don't have a game for it!

-Carr

EDIT: Forgot about the 5ft reach from the halberd itself.

[Kaliayev]

Try the following build:

11 fighter (Battlemaster), 9 mystic (Immortal)
Disciplines of note: Brute Force, Giant Growth, Diminution
Talents: Blind Spot
Feats: PAM, GWM, Sentinel
Race: Bugbear

STR 20 (16 base, +4 from ASIs)
DEX 14
CON 14
INT 14
WIS 9
CHA 8

AVG HP 154
AC

Weapon: Halberd Three attacks (d10s), + bonus action attack (d4)
+2d6 per hit (Bludg) from giant growth
+5 Strength damage per hit (15-20)
+10 damage GWM (per hit)


I feel like this warrants a big ol' legendary action, where you just do a 360° spinning attack at everything in range with your halberd. It would take up your whole turn and could only be done once a minute, but it would be pretty epic. I mean, you're huge for jebus's sake.

[Aett_Thorn]

I feel like this warrants a big ol' legendary action, where you just do a 360° spinning attack at everything in range with your halberd. It would take up your whole turn and could only be done once a minute, but it would be pretty epic. I mean, you're huge for jebus's sake.

I was going to wonder if something like this might mesh well with Whirlwind Attack from the Hunter Ranger. But that's still limited to 5' per the ability's description. Imagine if it was "In Range" instead. With a reach like that, you could get a huge AoE if it worked.

[Ovarwa]

As broken as possible at what character level?

[Aett_Thorn]

As broken as possible at what character level?

Well, the OP is from almost a year ago. So at this point, just go nuts.

[Merudo]

After playing a Mystic, I'll be brutally honest... Its kinda overrated.

I was super excited for it. But in play, it's not so hot.


What levels did you play as? Did you ever play a level 9-10 Mystic?

Mystics are totally broken at these levels.

[Maxilian]

2 nice combos:

Barb 5 / Mystic 3

-Take Master of Ice and use Frozen Sanctuary (no concentration), that gives you 20 Temporal Hp, while raging you could count that as 40 temp hp. (Is like another version of the Armor of Agathys build but with more HP and no extra damage when the enemy hits you)

-This can let you ignore Bear totem as you get many different resistance depending what you have as your atunment for the moment (so pick as the battle need) or go with the option that give you resistance to force and you have a barb will all the resistances.

Warlock 3 / Mystic 2

-Take miniature form, make yourself tiny and use your pact familiar or the Raven familiar from the subclass as your mount and blast people around. (It also makes you a great stealth character)

[8wGremlin]

What levels did you play as? Did you ever play a level 9-10 Mystic?

Mystics are totally broken at these levels.

Can you prove it? Could you post a Mystic build that you think is broken at those levels.
Then we can see that you are right. Espousing that it's broken without proving it, is no help to anyone.
Thank you.

[DeAnno]

Can you prove it? Could you post a Mystic build that you think is broken at those levels.
Then we can see that you are right. Espousing that it's broken without proving it, is no help to anyone.
Thank you.

I built and played a Mystic from 9-13 recently. I wouldn't quite call it broken but there is a lot you can do if you set yourself up correctly, you sort of become the 2nd best or 1st best at most things in the party.

At level 9 my build was roughly like this:

V-Human, Lucky feat. 20 Int, 16 Con, rest of your stats are pretty meaningless (Dex>Wis>Cha>Str)

I took Nomad because I like how Memories of a Thousand Steps is essentially a perfect defense against one AC attack. You also get a bunch of skills but it barely matters because you get a switching skill from a Discipline anyways.

You get 7 total Disciplines, 2 of which must be Nomad. Take Nomadic Step, Nomadic Mind, Precognition, Mastery of Wood and Earth, Psionic Weapon, Psychic Assault, Psychic Inquisition.

For your gear, it's sort of mildly important to have some kind of magic weapon, the higher +bonus the better. Nothing else is a big deal at all.


Nomadic Mind mainly gives you two things, a floating free skill from its focus and a phasing scrying sensor from Phasing Eye. The switching skill is really ridiculous, it makes you better than a Bard at being a skill monkey in some ways.
Nomadic Step gives you plenty of personal mobility. In addition to that, Phantom Caravan lets you teleport the party to anywhere you can see with your Phasing Eye, making you a super-master of infiltration and exfiltration.
Mastery of Wood and Earth is mainly there to give you Animate Weapon to get damage from when you need it. It also has a lot of other generally good powers like a strong wall and an Earth Elemental.
Psionic Weapon is pretty much strictly for boosting your Animate Weapon. Use bonus action to Lethal Weapon for 7, use standard action to Animate Weapon for 7, attack with Int to deal Weapon Damage+1d8+7d10+7d10+Int. Usually comes to about a neighborhood of 90 damage, which is a nice little burst if not top tier DPS. The Lucky feat is mainly there to make this expenditure of 14 pp not miss.
Precognition is mainly there just to get advantage on Initiative and to spend 7pp to give the party +10 to Initiative for important fights. Also has a bless-like effect to make your Weapon hit better and shore up your meh saves.
Psychic Assault has a couple useful things, mainly Ego Whip as a cheap stun and Psychic Crush as an expensive AoE stun. Always good to have some Int save targeting stuff in a build.
Psychic Inquisition gives an assortment of good-to-mediocre mind reading and mind control powers. Generally you won't be quite as good at this as a Wizard but you're often good enough at it to get by.
Scattered amongst all these Disciplines are a bunch of reactions, mainly a +4 AC teleporter and a forced disdavantage-izer. Use the former for general use and the latter to prevent crits.


So there you are. A great skill monkey, master of infiltration and scouting, wielder of a good damage burst, someone with great battlefield mobility and reasonable survivability (saves are a bit weak and undefended in this setup), the game's best party Initiative buff, Int saves, summons, and decent mind control powers, all in one build at level 9. Is it broken? That's for you to decide.

[Kaliayev]

You get 7 total Disciplines, 2 of which must be Nomad. Take Nomadic Step, Nomadic Mind, Precognition, Mastery of Wood and Earth, Psionic Weapon, Psychic Assault, Psychic Inquisition.

A mystic without bestial form? Madness!


I'm kinda surprised you went past nine on mystic. The consensus is that's the ideal point to start multi-classing, assuming you're not going for a pure build to get that auto-revive. Most of your chassis is powered at level nine, making further leveling pretty undesirable. What else were you looking to get out of the class? Psionic mastery can be neat, but you lock some of your disciplines in the process.

[DeAnno]

I'm kinda surprised you went past nine on mystic.

I'd gotten away with enough and was good enough relative to the party that going for Multiclassing on suspect grounds seemed unnecessary. More Mystic levels gave me more endurance with the PP drip from Psionic Mastery, and taking Moderately Armored at level 12 increased my survivability a lot because +1 armors and shields were available (I had something like 22 AC after that, and then my various reaction defenses on top of that.)

The 8th discipline is also kind of good for fixing your meh saves, you can either take Intellect Fortress (for mental saves) or Adaptive Body (for losing vast amounts of hp to Dex-Energy saves.) Or even something else if you get into dangerous combats less, there are plenty of good Disciplines around. I mean the back half of the class isn't great but it's not terrible either.

My damage was trailing back a bit compared to the Paladin by 13, but I was still the most generally useful party member by a long way. And really, what are we even multiclassing? It's not like that's going to get us 6th level spells either :smallwink:. Fighter 3-4 for Action Surge+misc would maybe be pretty good I guess.

[Jerrykhor]

A mystic without bestial form? Madness!


I'm kinda surprised you went past nine on mystic. The consensus is that's the ideal point to start multi-classing, assuming you're not going for a pure build to get that auto-revive. Most of your chassis is powered at level nine, making further leveling pretty undesirable. What else were you looking to get out of the class? Psionic mastery can be neat, but you lock some of your disciplines in the process.

You rate Bestial Form very highly? I think besides the +2AC and non-conc flight, its a rather average Discipline. Though i don't really like the fluff of being feral (more of a character issue).

[Kaliayev]

I'd gotten away with enough and was good enough relative to the party that going for Multiclassing on suspect grounds seemed unnecessary. More Mystic levels gave me more endurance with the PP drip from Psionic Mastery, and taking Moderately Armored at level 12 increased my survivability a lot because +1 armors and shields were available (I had something like 22 AC after that, and then my various reaction defenses on top of that.)

The 8th discipline is also kind of good for fixing your meh saves, you can either take Intellect Fortress (for mental saves) or Adaptive Body (for losing vast amounts of hp to Dex-Energy saves.) Or even something else if you get into dangerous combats less, there are plenty of good Disciplines around. I mean the back half of the class isn't great but it's not terrible either.

Ah, cool. At higher levels, I guess mystic is almost as good as monk when it comes to save flexibility.


My damage was trailing back a bit compared to the Paladin by 13, but I was still the most generally useful party member by a long way. And really, what are we even multiclassing? It's not like that's going to get us 6th level spells either :smallwink:. Fighter 3-4 for Action Surge+misc would maybe be pretty good I guess.

I've got a post in carr's thread about wrestling gargantuan creatures. It's probably too late to incorporate into your build, but it's a lulzy concept. Other than that, rogue, bs, and extra attack multi-classes can be worthwhile.



You rate Bestial Form very highly? I think besides the +2AC and non-conc flight, its a rather average Discipline. Though i don't really like the fluff of being feral (more of a character issue).

An hour of +2 AC is darn good. The other bestial transformations basically replicate a bunch of utility spell effects, meaning you're accessing them sooner than classes that actually cast spells. It's a pretty neat discipline and kinda a no-brainer at early levels. It's also one of the main draws for any class that's dipping into mystic. If you're going for a lot of levels in mystic, you can easily cast bestial form off later on, when you've got various 7 pp options vying for your attention.

[DeAnno]

I've got a post in carr's thread about wrestling gargantuan creatures. It's probably too late to incorporate into your build, but it's a lulzy concept. Other than that, rogue, bs, and extra attack multi-classes can be worthwhile.

I was pretty action-starved and did all my single target damage with Animate Weapon anyway, so Extra Attack and Wizard are both a bit meh (Bladesinger stance isn't that much better than just Medium Armor + Shield, really.) Rogue is ok for some skills but really doesn't provide too much either, in a way doing things in a very specific way wedges you away from a lot of common MCs. I think the only thing really worth doing is Fighter 3-4, mostly due to Action Surge.

[Sinon]

You rate Bestial Form very highly? I think besides the +2AC and non-conc flight, its a rather average Discipline.Yeah, except for those awesome things, it is kinda meh. :smallsmile:

I was surprised at the absence of Intellect Fortress - Psychic Backlash (disadvantage, negating advantage, or damage) and Psychic Parry (save what once was not saved) - gotta have those.

[Jerrykhor]

Yeah, except for those awesome things, it is kinda meh. :smallsmile:

I was surprised at the absence of Intellect Fortress - Psychic Backlash (disadvantage, negating advantage, or damage) and Psychic Parry (save what once was not saved) - gotta have those.

Heh. When picking disciplines, I keep looking at each Discipline and trying to find the perfect one, one which has both good abilities and good psychic focus. But its very hard lol.

Anyway, I've reconsidered Bestial Form and decided its good. Tough Hide is a waaaaay superior Shield of Faith, its ridiculous.

[Matticusrex]

All the nomad teleporting spells are insane for battle positioning.