View Full Version : Please help me choose spells

2007-08-01, 04:59 PM
Sorcerers are a lot of fun, but it can be pretty difficult to choose the correct spells that go with creating them. And that is my conundrum.

Meet Fen Tah (http://www.thetangledweb.net/profiler/view.php?id=19786). An outsider assasin casting as a level 17 sorcerer. I have already made my own suggestion as to what spells he should have, but somehow I don't think that they are good enough.

So... I would like to ask the skilled forumers if there are any spells I should change or swap out. What he is supposed to be is a very skilled assasin working for a potential BBEG. A "punisher" of sorts, who rely heavily on deception, swift strikes and spreading fear and respect for his master.

Iku Rex
2007-08-01, 05:07 PM
First of all,
Sorry, the requested character can not be shown. Either you don't have permission to edit it, the sheet isn't publicly viewable, or the character does not exist.
Books available?

2007-08-01, 05:25 PM
Fixed that. Books available would be Core mainly. I have BoED and CArc myself, and a friend of mine has almost all books, so that shouldn't be a limit.

2007-08-01, 05:27 PM
PAO because PAO 6 times a day HAS to be good.

2007-08-01, 06:39 PM
I would say that ray of enfeeblement is a must-have as a first level spell. It doesn't really lose any effectiveness as you gain levels, and that +22 is awesome for a touch attack.

2007-08-01, 06:47 PM
As an outsider, you'd better be abusing Alter Self. Incidentally, what flavor of outsider is this character?

2007-08-01, 07:29 PM
Spells you can probably do away with:

Sleep (not that useful for his level)
Displacement (you already have Mirror Image and Greater Invis. It's a bit redundant)
Prismatic Spray (This kinda overlaps with Finger of Death)

Project Image, Limited Wish, or Spell Turning might make good options for replacing Prismatic Spray.

Fear or Confusion may be a bit more appropriate than Rainbow Pattern for this guy's concept.

2007-08-01, 07:44 PM
Lose Sleep and swap it out for something like Color Spray or Ray of Enfeeblement which would proably be more useful depending on your concept.

Lose Hold Portal you can duplicate the effect with a higher level spell (Web, Shadow Conjuration, Greater Shadow Conjuration).

Lose Spider Climb and get something like Alter Self or Dimension Jump (No need to take Dimension Door)

Lose Dimension Door (I like Shadow Conjuration for general utility granting a Sorcerer more options. Things like Create Enchanted Tattoo or Spectral Stag for temporary short term aerial jaunts, Duplicate Web so you don't need to take it and free up a level 2 spell, Phantom Steeds, General Conjuration for various purposes (It's a little gray but emulate a level 3 Summon Monster with 5 monsters summoned), Use it to create a Sculpted Grease spell and free up a level 1 spell. Polymorph is great also.

Lose Bestow Curse.

Unless you are teleporting vast distances or to lots of unfamilar places keep Teleport instead of Greater Teleport. Summon Monster 7 can Summon a Movanic Deva from the Fiend Folio that can Raise the Dead for free and do lots of other neat things like Commune or Cure Serious........

Greater Shadow Conjuration would be a lot more useful for a sorcerer. Limited Wish could be more useful despite limited use (Exp cost).

(IMO spending a feat and taking an Arcane Domain like the Spell Domain would be a good idea for a sorcerer without access to a Spell Pool and even one with access as it would grant your PC a spellcasting bonus at every spell level including the option of 1 Limited Wish a Day along with a single Mage Armor, Silence, Any Spell, Rary's Mnemonic Enhancer, Break Enchantment, Any Spell Greater, Antimagic Field and MDJ at level 9) Remember even with domain spells you can cast a lower spell with a higher bonus spell slot.

Lose Flesh to Stone Any Spell Greater would be better if you do not have access to the Spellpool or do not take the Arcane Domain Spells for general utility with a limited spellbook of level 1 - 5 spells.

Forget Trap the Soul (The material component just costs to much to use at 1,000 GP a HD/Level normally with your fixed known spells (Get Shades as a Level 9 spell in another level)). I prefer Mindblank (Good for Party Buffs) with the SpellPool and Two Rings of Theurgy from Complete Arcane at 20,000 GP each as Each can be filled with up to 3 spells of any level which you can use as bonus known spells for spellcasting. To clarify your sorcerer 17 could use any 0 - 8th level spells stored in the rings as Known Spells for spellcasting.

Unless your campaign is going to be based around using Demand I'd choose something else.

Since you don't have a lot of Meta feats consider learning a few meta spells from scrolls as known spells. For example a Quickened Magic Missile is a level 5 spell if a wizard inscribes it on a scroll. Your PC could learn that spell as a known 5th level spell under the PHB page 54 learning Unusual Spells text. This would allow your PC to cast two spells in a round.

Lastly I didn't see any PRCs. A sorcerer normally doesn't lose anything except familiar enhancement leveling so you should PRC.

If not PRCing consider using the Variant Spellcaster because you get access to all spell lists for known spells and using devices plus bonus feats at levels 1, 5, 10 and 15 instead of Summon Familiar which could be used for taking things like Turn Undead (Great with DMM Persist Spell with Extend Spell Complete Arcane), Evasion and other feats like Summon Familiar if you really want one although Obtain Familiar from Complete Arcane is a better feat since the familiar gets all the leveling benefits when PRCing plus unless you are using lots of charisma dependent powers you could make your primary ability intelligence which would give your PC quite a few more skill points to play with.

A PRC like Fiend Blooded from Heroes of Horror would fit into your theme. MotAO is strong for a sorcerer and increasing the PC situationally by granting a few more spellcasting options.

2007-08-01, 08:05 PM
8th level spells:

Demand? You're not going to get too much use out of that without Eschew Materials - the spell requires a piece of the subject.

Likewise, you don't want Trap the Soul - the material component gets expensive. You won't use either of those spells very often.

I'm fond of Greater Planar Binding - with a little knowledge of Outsiders, it lets you prepare for a battle - by Calling the perfect outsider (comparable to the Wizard preparing the perfect spell). Goes well with Moment of Prescience, as bargaining is an opposed Charisma check - to which Moment of Prescience can apply. You can get a 95% success rate that way fairly readily, even against some fairly strong outsiders (especially as a Sorcerer-cognate; with your a +9 Charisma bonus, the +17 to your check gives you a 28 on a roll of 2 - a Planetar rolling a 20 gets 26; a Pit Fiend rolling a 20 gets a 28 - which ties you (and you've got the better modifier). Moment of Prescience is, in and of itself, a very useful spell - and most of the rolls an assassin will want to make are opposed (Hide, Move Silently, Disguise, and so on). Pairing with that, of course, you'll want two opposed Magic Circle Against spells (Law/Chaos, Good/Evil) at 3rd level; I'd be inclined to drop Displacement and Vampiric Touch, as there's better things to do with your actions as a 17th level caster than Vampiric Touch, and Displacement is mostly redundant with Greater Invisibility and Mirror Image. Likewise, you'll need Dimensional Anchor at 4th - I'd suggest dropping Dimension Door - it's redundant with either Teleport or Greater Teleport. Dismissal (5th) is handy, but not required for the tactic.

You don't need Greater Teleport - you cast as a Sorcerer; take Teleport and cast it again if you miss. Prismatic Spray is too unreliable. Finger of Death is reasonable, but if you come across undead, things with Death Ward, a scarab of protection, or just lots of SR, it's useless.

You can get a lot of mileage out of Greater Shadow Conjuration (goes well with Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus in Illusion, due to the double-save mechanic) for the simple reason that it can do a LOT - Summon Monster VI as a standard action, Wall of Iron without the pesky components, Acid Fog to slowly eat away at someone, CloudKill, Secret Chest, Wall of Stone, Major Creation, and so on (replace with Shades when you have 9th level spells).

Simulacrum isn't an optimal spell, but it's very flavorful for an Assassin - kill the target, snitch the body away for the 12 hour casting, and drop the Simulacrum in the dead man's stead - do it right, and nobody will be any wiser.

Spell Turning is an excellent defensive measure at high levels; I highly recommend it. With a 10 minute/level duration, it'll last nearly three hours - which means you can keep it up nearly always.

Limited Wish is almost required - it'll cover your rear RIGHT NOW when you find you need a 6th level or lower spell you don't know. You can also fake a Heal that way by way of the Adept's (NPC class in the DMG) version of the spell, which is 5th level.

Greater Dispel Magic is a good choice, and Disintegrate will go a long ways, as will Flesh to Stone. However, you don't want two offensive spells at the same level that won't work on the same target. Drop one of them (I'd suggest Flesh to Stone - it won't affect undead, while Disintegrate will), and go with, oh, Shadow Walk (for the Planar Travel, mostly), Repulsion, Analyze Deowemer, or Contingency.

Drop Overland Flight. As an Outsider, you can get much more mileage out of Alter Self. Mirage Arcana is interesting, but it's too situational for a Sorcerer's spell. Hold Monster isn't too bad, but as a Transmutation specialist, the save every round is going to cause you some severe problems. Cone of Cold is okay, although blasting isn't an ideal use of your time (but it's fun, and it usually won't overshadow anybody).

Here, you'll want Teleport (if you miss, you can just try again), Shadow Evocation (as it will duplicate some useful spells - Fire Shield, Wall of Fire, Wall of Ice, Resilient Sphere, Ice Storm, Daylight, Continual Flame (yes, RAW, you CAN use a [Shadow] spell to duplicate things with the [Light] descriptor...), Wind Wall, Tiny Hut, and the like) and it can be used when you want to play a blaster vs. mooks (Fireball! Ice Storm! Lightning Bolt!). Dismissal is a good spell for getting home (fail your save vs. your spell) in your case (and it helps when Planar Binding goes south). Tack on Telekinesis for the utility and fun stuff (take a look at the damage on the 15 Colossal Sling Bullets you can throw around; it's also a very handy "casting denial" spell, by way of the Grapple option) and you're good to go. You can also replace Telekinesis with, say, Mage's Private Sanctum if you're worried about people trying to locate you.

Drop Dimension Door - it's redundant with Teleport/Greater Teleport. The Touch range of Bestow Curse will dampen its utility; I would advise against it. Rainbow Pattern is okay, but at the level you're playing, most high-will save things will make the save, and most low-will save things will have too many HD for you to affect. Greater Invisibility is good, though.

Here you'll want Dimensional Anchor (for the Planar Binding, and to keep your victims from retreating by way of Plane Shift, Teleport, or the like), Enervation (it's good at ALL levels). Then grab either Shadow Conjouration (for utility spells - Phantom Steed, Mage Armor, Unseen Servant, and the like), or Polymorph (for the flexibility inherent in the spell).

Mentioned this earlier - drop Displacement (redundant with Greater Invisibility and Mirror Image) and Vampiric Touch (you've got better things to do with your actions). Haste and Major Image are good.

You'll want two diametrically opposed Magic Circle spells at this level, for your Planar Bindings. You can get away with just one if you're okay with only grabbing outsiders from one side of the track. If you go that route, you'll want Blink (good defensive spell), or Arcane Sight (find all magic fast).

Touch of Idiocy won't be overly useful at the level you're playing. Spider Climb is too single-purpose for a Sorcerer. Mirror Image, Glitterdust, and Web are winners at just about any level.

I'd suggest Rope Trick (get up places, hide out for hours at a time invisibly, and take a nap to recover spells) and Alter Self (as you're an outsider, you've got an insane number of good forms available, with anything from Flight to Natural Armor at your fingertips - plus it helps with infiltration by way of +10 to Disguise).

1st: Grease is good (enables rogues), Shield is good (increases AC - and you're at the point where the duration is reasonable), Hold Portal is just about worthless, Sleep's Hit Die limit will kill its effectiveness, and Magic Missile is two slow for killing things.

I'd suggest replacing Hold Portal, Magic Missile, and Sleep with Mage Armor (for the AC), Magic Aura (so your items don't register as magic when you don't want them to), and Ray of Enfeeblement (because it's a nice debuff).

What, you don't list cantrips?

2007-08-01, 08:13 PM
Actually, I agree. Polymorph, Alter Self, and Spell Turning are must haves.

2007-08-01, 09:00 PM
Being awhile since I'v posted here, but here goes.

I'v being working on a low level Sorcerer recently, so you'll probably notice a heavy use of low level spells. I disagree with the old idea of a Sorcerer having an attack spell every level, I mean whats the point? Take what you need dump the rest. To this end, I'd like to suggest dropping a feat and taking Highten Spell and just rasing those save or dies to a good level. Doing this lets you learn more spells that may save your life later.

Key spells of Sorcerer Awesomeness:
Wings of cover (level 2, race of dragon) stops one attack/spell per round, as an immediate action. This works by stopping line of sight, however they can cancel there action and change to say fireball against which you gain +8 AC and +4 to reflex save. This will be your bread and butter anti-caster spell.

Halt (level 2 PHB II): immediate action save vs. inability to move anywhere that round. Where Wings of cover protect you from casters, so does Halt protect you from fighters. They can't touch you if they can't reach you.

[note: these both effect a single target, as an assasin, this really shouldn't be to much of a drawback]

Wings of flurry (level 4, RoD) 1d6 per CL, uncapped! This is the bread and butter for your blasting needs, its uncapped so it remains awesome. It has a short range however [30 feet, with a 30 foot blast radius] but otherwise acts like a force-fireball that keeps on giving.

Curse of the Putrid Husk (level 3, BoVD) (Will negates) save or [almost] die. Mind-affecting, so it may not get to much use, but its effective. One round dazed, then 1d10 minutes of being unconscious.

Telekinesis (level 5, PHB) as already stated, awesome.

I haven't spent a great deal of time looking at all the different high level spells, however Disintegrate is a must have and more than one direct damage is a no-no.

Hope that helps.

Sornjss Lichdom
2007-08-01, 09:40 PM
Well scinse your into the whole assassin thing, try wall of dispel magic, maybe even greater, its in Spell Compediuom. Theres alot of usefull spells in there.

*flips a few pages*

The orb spells are very useful against spell resistance, and sensory depravation is just a god send when it comes to a get away.