Battle Cleric of Tyr - build questions

[BB944]

So my wife has decided to play a cleric of Tyr this next game session. The campaign should go into the late teen's possible level 20. So a good plan in accordance to good role playing (in the case of multi-Classing) is needed.

So here is her character:

She was a born a merchant's daughter, who is a high member of a thieves guild in Waterdeep. One of his deals involved him agreeing to send his daughter to be boarding school at a temple of Tyr (things went sour with the local clergy)
Raised by the clergy (acolyte background) she grew fond of the principals of Tyr in the church and on the battle field. Becoming a quick study of the art of war and martial combat, but all the while becoming a champion of his cause.

So she is a Level 1 V.Human Cleric of the war domain.
Stats: (we rolled)
Str:16
Dex:10
Con:16 (+1)
Int:12
Wis:17 (+1)
Chr:14

First Feat = War Caster

She wants to be able to provide the party with utility and heals but be found on the front lines more often than casting spells from the back. So there will be lots of spirit guardians. This is her second game session and her last one was a barbarian, which she liked, but felt limited to combat only as the rest of the party took major roles in NPC interaction, and she felt like she was only good for an attack roll. But she liked the idea of being a force on the battle field. So definitely a martial cleric. She is dancing with the idea of going Great Weapon instead of Hammer and Shield

Full battle cleric, and a champion of Tyr? This is prime for a good multi class.

So ... should she?
I was looking at her putting in 5 levels of Paladin (Devotion) for the second attack. Thought that the second attack and a whole lot of 5d8 smites to slam down, with her 1d8 additional damage. Would be giving up her Divine Intervention capstone, damage resistance, and 9th level spells.
If she did when would be the ideal time to take the first paladin level? the second? the fifth? Our concern is the delay for higher level cleric spells. the more classes from other levels the later she will get game changing 5th and 6th level spells.

What about fighter? maybe just 2 for the action surge?

The rest of the party is a Lore Bard, Arcane Trickster, Ranger (hunter), and a Purple Dragon Knight. We have one player who is on the fence as to being a druid (not sure of order) or a Vengeance Paladin. (will likely go Druid though)

Suggestions are welcome, but please note the DM (me) is more interested in concept rather than optimization. But since I have no experience playing a 5e cleric (though have been playing them since 1986) I am eager to hear about some great optimizations to think about.

[Gtdead]

The most common way to optimize a battle cleric is the guiding bolt+GWM nova but since this build doesn't scale that well past lvl 5 I'd just optimize stats and leave it at that. Grab con resilience, warcaster, shield, possibly a dip in fighter for defender and action surge for better spell economy.

[djreynolds]

This screams.... multiclass with paladin. At least 2.

[Sans.]

5 levels of Paladin? Nah. If you take Paladin 5, you might as well take Paladin 6 because it's so good.

[BB944]

The most common way to optimize a battle cleric is the guiding bolt+GWM nova but since this build doesn't scale that well past lvl 5 I'd just optimize stats and leave it at that. Grab con resilience, warcaster, shield, possibly a dip in fighter for defender and action surge for better spell economy.

Looked it up, but that requires two rounds, cool though. I see it as a initiation as it is a ranged spell attack and can't be used in Melee with out having a disadvantage on the attack roll. But good way to soften up the target before closing in. Thanks for the tip though, I will pass it on.

[BB944]

5 levels of Paladin? Nah. If you take Paladin 5, you might as well take Paladin 6 because it's so good.

I cannot agree more that Aura is just bad a** .. but she is not a paladin and that 6th level of paladin would be giving up 8th and 9th level cleric spells. I suggested 5 levels of paladin for the two attacks, there by increasing her DPS in the martial combat. And I am hesitant to do that much due to loosing her ability to be resistant to damage (though at that point it would be less useful as I imagine that most attacks will be magical in nature)

Not to mention that there is a strong chance that there will be a paladin in the party. And there are no other full casters. So loosing spells like Earthquake and sunburst could be painful. Yet, it maybe a great option if that other player ends up going druid, as she could fill the paladin role...

Also, I just wanted to point out, that I have seen a lot of cool information from this forum of multiclassing and optimization, but I have seen little on [I]when[I] to optimize. That is my main concern.. but maybe the answer is just to play it by ear?

[Biggstick]

Grab Magic Initiate for BB and/or GFB. This, alongside the War domain's level 8 and 14 damage to attack rolls will give the War Cleric a solid offensive attack.

Character useing BB once they have access to said cantrip.

Level 1 (Human feat): Warcaster. Damage rolls. 1d8+3
Level 4 ASI: Magic Initiate (BB in this case). Damage rolls. 1d8+3 (rider 1d8)
Level 5: Damage rolls. 2d8+3 (rider 2d8)
Level 8 ASI: Resilient Con. Damage rolls. 3d8+3 (rider 2d8)
Level 11: Damage rolls. 4d8+3 (rider 3d8)
Level 12 ASI: +2 Wisdom. Damage rolls. 4d8+3 (rider 3d8)
Level 14: Damage rolls. 5d8+3 (rider 3d8)
Level 16 ASI: +2 Con, Lucky, Tough, etc. Damage rolls. 5d8+3 (rider 3d8)
Level 17: Damage rolls. 6d8+3 (rider 4d8)
This, on top of Spirit Guardians and/or Spiritual Weapon, make for some pretty powerful offensive output. You already have Warcaster at level 1, meaning you have solid opportunity attacks available with BB and/or GFB. Once this character gets into a group of enemies, they probably aren't going very far.

All in all, stay Cleric. Her stats are good enough to not need early ASI's to bump them, and open up Magic Initiate for her damage output. it also allows her to have a nasty opportunity attack on top of that already sticky character.

[Gtdead]

Looked it up, but that requires two rounds, cool though. I see it as a initiation as it is a ranged spell attack and can't be used in Melee with out having a disadvantage on the attack roll. But good way to soften up the target before closing in. Thanks for the tip though, I will pass it on.

It's possible to dip warrior for action surge.

[Biggstick]

I cannot agree more that Aura is just bad a** .. but she is not a paladin and that 6th level of paladin would be giving up 8th and 9th level cleric spells. I suggested 5 levels of paladin for the two attacks, there by increasing her DPS in the martial combat. And I am hesitant to do that much due to loosing her ability to be resistant to damage (though at that point it would be less useful as I imagine that most attacks will be magical in nature)

Not to mention that there is a strong chance that there will be a paladin in the party. And there are no other full casters. So loosing spells like Earthquake and sunburst could be painful. Yet, it maybe a great option if that other player ends up going druid, as she could fill the paladin role...

Also, I just wanted to point out, that I have seen a lot of cool information from this forum of multiclassing and optimization, but I have seen little on [I]when[I] to optimize. That is my main concern.. but maybe the answer is just to play it by ear?

First point. There are still plenty of sources of plain old Bludgeoning, Piercing, and Slashing. A Dragon's Claw attack is non-magical slashing damage. It's Tail is non-magical bludgeoning. It's Bite is non-magical piercing. It's Wing Attack is non-magical bludgeoning, etc. etc. There are still plenty of instances where always on resistance to the three most common damage types in the game will be useful for a support tank that a War Cleric is.

Second point. If looking to Multiclass out of Cleric, the breakpoints vary. Most people on the boards would probably agree that after Cleric 8 is a good breakpoint, and I would agree. If you're wanting to start as Fighter for 1-2 levels, that works out well enough too. Personally I don't think starting Fighter as a War Cleric is necessary though. I would probably not really consider multiclassing until much later in the game, as getting to 17th level Cleric would be my first objective. After that though, feel free to grab Fighter levels for Action Surge and/or Manuevers.

[Bloodcloud]

Multiclassing delays a lot of cool thing. Magic initiate to pickup shield or even better absorb element combined with booming blade and watever else could help without the multiclass. Don't forget to plan for viability and power across all level, not just the theoriticl lvl 20.

[BB944]

Grab Magic Initiate for BB and/or GFB. This, alongside the War domain's level 8 and 14 damage to attack rolls will give the War Cleric a solid offensive attack.

Character useing BB once they have access to said cantrip.

Level 1 (Human feat): Warcaster. Damage rolls. 1d8+3
Level 4 ASI: Magic Initiate (BB in this case). Damage rolls. 1d8+3 (rider 1d8)
Level 5: Damage rolls. 2d8+3 (rider 2d8)
Level 8 ASI: Resilient Con. Damage rolls. 3d8+3 (rider 2d8)
Level 11: Damage rolls. 4d8+3 (rider 3d8)
Level 12 ASI: +2 Wisdom. Damage rolls. 4d8+3 (rider 3d8)
Level 14: Damage rolls. 5d8+3 (rider 3d8)
Level 16 ASI: +2 Con, Lucky, Tough, etc. Damage rolls. 5d8+3 (rider 3d8)
Level 17: Damage rolls. 6d8+3 (rider 4d8)
This, on top of Spirit Guardians and/or Spiritual Weapon, make for some pretty powerful offensive output. You already have Warcaster at level 1, meaning you have solid opportunity attacks available with BB and/or GFB. Once this character gets into a group of enemies, they probably aren't going very far.

All in all, stay Cleric. Her stats are good enough to not need early ASI's to bump them, and open up Magic Initiate for her damage output. it also allows her to have a nasty opportunity attack on top of that already sticky character.

Talked it over with her, and we agreed that this is definitely a best route. Better than multiclassing ... may take 3 in paladin for the smite and additional Channel Divinity but not likely. ... but still this is great. Love the synergy with AoO and War Caster. Defiantly a great way to control the battle field with SG and SW.

Thank you for this awesome advice

-edit- spelling

[CaptainSarathai]

You could just go 2 levels of Pally. That's Smite and a Fighting Style.

If you can cover it up somewhere, a dip into Warlock with the Undying Light patron would handle getting your Cantrips, as well as +Cha to Fire/Radiant spell damage.
Another Warlock option would be to go Hexblade, Pact of the Blade, run it up to 5th and snag Thirsting Blade.
During this run you can also nab a "Smite-Like" ability similar to the Paladin, and/or the ability to +1 your weapon, and also get the Shield spell and ___Blade cantrips. Hexblades also get a sort of "marked for death" type ability that gives you boosted accuracy and damage against a single target.
You also get the usual stuff, like Hex and the option of using Eldritch Blast for ranged, refilling Spell Slots, etc.

[Galadhrim]

Talked it over with her, and we agreed that this is definitely a best route. Better than multiclassing ... may take 3 in paladin for the smite and additional Channel Divinity but not likely. ... but still this is great. Love the synergy with AoO and War Caster. Defiantly a great way to control the battle field with SG and SW.

Thank you for this awesome advice

-edit- spelling

I played a tempest cleric with this build through level 10 and it was a ton of fun. Swinging that big boom stick (booming blade + divine strike) inside of spirit guardians makes for an effective tank. All of that and your bonus action is still free to wield your spiritual weapon for a second attack or to pick up fallen allies with healing word.

If your friend is still on the fence paladin standing next to this cleric will do wonders for her. charisma to saves from your paladin buddy plus bless on top of that makes her to hit so much better and her concentration save almost unbreakable.

[CaptainSarathai]

It should be noted that the Multiclass rules state that two instances of Channel Divinity do not give additional uses. You only get the standard number of uses, but can choose which effect to use each time.

[solidork]

Grab Magic Initiate for BB and/or GFB. This, alongside the War domain's level 8 and 14 damage to attack rolls will give the War Cleric a solid offensive attack.

I'm playing a Half Orc War Cleric that gets Booming Blade from a custom magic item, and it definitely helps. Keep in mind that RAW, you can't Booming Blade and then make a bonus attack with War Priest.