Character Options

[NinaWu]

Joining a game at lv10 and have some really good stats to work with and was looking for clever multiclassing combos/options, something different to play. Starting (lv1) stats are 10, 12, 13, 16, 17, 18, PHB only. Not really sure what I want to play, was hoping to get an idea or two from here (fingers crossed). All ideas appreciated.

[djreynolds]

I personally never try to step on others toes, see what they are making.

Also what is the campaign?

[Arkhios]

Have you played before? If so, what kind of character did you play? I think that a new campaign is always an opportunity to play something you haven't tried before, and letting us know what you've done before would help us give further suggestions.

[NinaWu]

Have you played before? If so, what kind of character did you play? I think that a new campaign is always an opportunity to play something you haven't tried before, and letting us know what you've done before would help us give further suggestions.

I've played most, if not all classes, before. I was looking at a bard/pally but I think it's time for something new. I'm probably guilty of creating similar themed characters (usually DEX based) but never really played something clever using multiclassing (in 5e at least).

What would you create from the stats above?

[NinaWu]

I personally never try to step on others toes, see what they are making.

Also what is the campaign?

Campaign is a find and recover mission (magical artifact) and looking at the group so far there's a barb/monk, sorcerer, war cleric, fighter (polearm master), ranger, and moon druid. Big group i know, but still, I want to come up with a theme or the like, something fresh, unique, something that follows a different path to my usually DEX based characters.

[JellyPooga]

With that 16, 17 and 18, it's very tempting to go for one of the more attribute dependent Classes, I guess; Monk, Barbarian or Paladin come to mind.

A Half-Elf could have starting stats of Cha:18, X:18, Y:19, which is only a Feat (Resilient?) and 2 ASI's away from triple-20's. Either a Fighter or a Rogue gets three ASI's by level 10, though neither utilises that Charisma much.

Without more info on your preferences, etc. I can't help much more than that, really

[NinaWu]

With that 16, 17 and 18, it's very tempting to go for one of the more attribute dependent Classes, I guess; Monk, Barbarian or Paladin come to mind.

A Half-Elf could have starting stats of Cha:18, X:18, Y:19, which is only a Feat (Resilient?) and 2 ASI's away from triple-20's. Either a Fighter or a Rogue gets three ASI's by level 10, though neither utilises that Charisma much.

Without more info on your preferences, etc. I can't help much more than that, really

Thanks for your thoughts and comments. I'm open to playing anything. I'm looking for options that I haven't thought of before. Playing 5e I've been pretty linear in my approach and never come up with anything 'creative' as such and was looking for some inspiring examples I guess. Even thoughts around a theme for the character would be good. I'm just trying to break away from the 'stock standard' style character that I've always tended to play.

[Gtdead]

Paladin pops to mind.

[djreynolds]

Your stats are great, so here is something crazy.

A ranger/warlock, who hunts down sacrifices for his patron. 10, 12, 13, 16, 17, 18, the stats are there to do anything. Heck you can even get by throwing cantrips.

But see what the party is comprised of, and whittle it down.

Tempest cleric, medium armor with 2 levels of barbarian and 2 level of paladin.... grab a warhammer or maul and be Thor.

Str 18/ dex 12/ con 16/ int 10/ Wis 17/ chr 13.... or rearrange the stats

[NinaWu]

Your stats are great, so here is something crazy.

A ranger/warlock, who hunts down sacrifices for his patron. 10, 12, 13, 16, 17, 18, the stats are there to do anything. Heck you can even get by throwing cantrips.

But see what the party is comprised of, and whittle it down.

Tempest cleric, medium armor with 2 levels of barbarian and 2 level of paladin.... grab a warhammer or maul and be Thor.

Str 18/ dex 12/ con 16/ int 10/ Wis 17/ chr 13.... or rearrange the stats

Like the idea of the ranger/warlock. Never really played a ranger or a warlock much before. Could look at a wood elf (or any elf i guess) or half elf. Lv1 ranger. DEX 18, CHA 17, CON 16. How many levels of each for first 10 lvs (and progression from there)?

[Contrast]

I'll suggest my personal favourite which I've never got to play - astrength based rogue/barbarian with shield master and expertise in atheltics and shield bash everyone to the ground.

Bonus points for doing it as a halfling.

[NinaWu]

I'll suggest my personal favourite which I've never got to play - astrength based rogue/barbarian with shield master and expertise in atheltics and shield bash everyone to the ground.

Bonus points for doing it as a halfling.

Like it. I have played a halfling barbarian recently though i didn't have the creative flair of shield master.

[Arkhios]

Like the idea of the ranger/warlock. Never really played a ranger or a warlock much before. Could look at a wood elf (or any elf i guess) or half elf. Lv1 ranger. DEX 18, CHA 17, CON 16. How many levels of each for first 10 lvs (and progression from there)?

You said you've played mostly with dex-oriented characters. What about not going that route again?

Ranger/Warlock seems fine to me, but with your stats, maybe do something more along the line of Geralt (Witcher):

Ranger (Hunter)/Warlock (Fiend?)
V.Human: +1 wis, +1 cha, Medium Armor Master (18, 16, 12, 10, 13, 17)

STR 18, DEX 16, CON 12, INT 10, WIS 14(+1), CHA 18(+1)

Start with Ranger, continue to 5th level for Extra Attack, then switch to Warlock for the rest of your career.
From Ranger, take Defense fighting style.
Use a Greatsword and Pick Great Weapon Master and maybe Mage Slayer (or Tough, if you worry about your hit points) as your feats. (18 in your primary ability scores are more than enough for anyone at or below 10th level).

You should be able to purchase a Half-plate, so do that. With Half-plate, medium armor master and Defense fighting style, you would have AC 19 (same as plate mail + defense style).
Even though your con is only 12, at 10th level your hit points would still be 69. With the false life invocation (whatever it was called) you'd still be able to soak quite impressive amounts of damage when the AC isn't enough to avoid it. Dexterity saving throw proficiency from ranger and dex 16 means you'll have very decent save bonus too (+9), so you should be succeeding on dex saves more often than not. Also, you get to be very stealthy - even with that half-plate, thanks to Medium Armor Master.

[NinaWu]

You said you've played mostly with dex-oriented characters. What about not going that route again?

Ranger/Warlock seems fine to me, but with your stats, maybe do something more along the line of Geralt (Witcher):

Ranger (Hunter)/Warlock (Fiend?)
V.Human: +1 wis, +1 cha, Medium Armor Master (18, 16, 12, 10, 13, 17)

STR 18, DEX 16, CON 12, INT 10, WIS 14(+1), CHA 18(+1)

Start with Ranger, continue to 5th level for Extra Attack, then switch to Warlock for the rest of your career.
From Ranger, take Defense fighting style.
Use a Greatsword and Pick Great Weapon Master and maybe Mage Slayer (or Tough, if you worry about your hit points) as your feats. (18 in your primary ability scores are more than enough for anyone at or below 10th level).

You should be able to purchase a Half-plate, so do that. With Half-plate, medium armor master and Defense fighting style, you would have AC 19 (same as plate mail + defense style).
Even though your con is only 12, at 10th level your hit points would still be 69. With the false life invocation (whatever it was called) you'd still be able to soak quite impressive amounts of damage when the AC isn't enough to avoid it. Dexterity saving throw proficiency from ranger and dex 16 means you'll have very decent save bonus too (+9), so you should be succeeding on dex saves more often than not. Also, you get to be very stealthy - even with that half-plate, thanks to Medium Armor Master.

You make a compelling case. I'm just throwing all of that into the 5e app right now. Outlander background?

[Arkhios]

You make a compelling case. I'm just throwing all of that into the 5e app right now. Outlander background?

Any background would be fine, i think. It's a pity you're not allowed to use SCAG. There's one background that might suit a Witcher pretty well: Knight of the Order (of Witchers, whatever it's called)

[Ruebin Rybnik]

First a moment of sadness for having those stats and only getting to use the PHB. Ooh the things we could create.

Okay you could play a skirmish caster/controller by going rouge/warlock. First 8 in Rogue for ASI's, sneak att, cunning action, uncanny dodge, and evasion.
Then start into Warlock for casting, pact of blade and invocations. Fiend pact and Assassin would go nice together I think.
You could delay rogue at the start if you want to start with Extra att from Warlock. Start warlock 6/rogue 4, then next 2 lvls warlock for ASI and invocations.

The end goal would be 8 rogue/12 warlock to give you atts 1d8+4d6+5dex+5cha running in and out of combat with the ability to screw up the enemy by casting when needed.
Or go to 14 warlock for hurl through hell for when there is more than one big target in play. That is worth the ASI you give up.

[Khrysaes]

Edit: reread original post. PHB Only. do 8 Paladin/12 warlock. Fuel Paladin Smites with Warlock slots, unless you need a higher level cast for a spell. Pick Pact of tome for all rituals up to 6th level sells. Fiend or Archfey. Get lifedrinker invocation, and devil's sight. Max Str, Con, Cha.

PHB Ranger is not good. I would still ask about the stuff below.

Is UA Allowed? If so,

TL:DR: V.Human or Half Elf,

Simpler: 8 Deepstalker Revised Ranger/12 Fey Bladelock with Moonbow.

Gains. proficiency in Strength, Con, and Wisdom Saving throws, and +30ft darkvision to the warlock's Devil sight for 150ft darkvision that pierces magical darkness.

Start 6 ranger/4 warlock, or 5/5.

Complex: 6 Paladin of redemption/2 Revised Ranger(or fighter for action surge)/12 Fey Bladelock with Moonbow.

Gains: Proficiency in Wisdom and Charisma Saving throws, Charisma bonus to all saves, Unarmored/No Shield AC of 16+ Dex, Same spell slots as 8 Ranger, two Fighting Styles(archery & Close quarter's shooter), Paladin Spell list for first and second level spells, including Shield.

Loses in comparison: Str and Con save proficiency, 2nd level ranger spells known, Improved Darkvision, One ASI, Greater Favored Enemy, Dash as bonus action.

Start 6 Paladin/4 Warlock. fit ranger in whenever.


Long Rambling Reasoning:

Snag either some fighter or Paladin... the only problem is that you have overlapping Extra attack. But both get you a second Fighting style. Paladin 6 gets your cha to saves, which is strong. Fighter 6 gets you an ASI.

Paladin of Redemption gets 16 + Dex AC while unarmored and not using a shield. Which is better than an armored bow user.

Eldritch Knight and paladin get more spell slots for you to use. Paladin is better in this case for multiclassing.

Ranger Deepstalker 7, gets you Wis as a proficient save. Honestly though, I don't think higher level ranger is good at all. I prefer it for 4 levels, getting extra attack from another class. I also dont particularly like spell casting, but you are going warlock, and spell casting is good for the following. Revised Ranger is better than normal ranger, and isn't vastly over powered.


Fey Warlock with Pact of the Blade can get the MoonBow, which is a longbow summoned from PotB. and with it you can expend spell slots to cause a smite like effect, currently with no cap, but 2d8 damage per slot level.

So a Redemption paladin 6/Moon Bow Warlock 4 would be good since you start at 10. You can up paladin for more spell slots, and take 4 ranger or Fighter EK, getting a second fighting style, so you can have both archery and close quarters shooter for a +3 to hit, and some more spell slots. and for the last 6 levels you go 2/4 pally/warlock for two ASI, or 6 warlock, getting to 10, getting your 5th level slots, and beguiling defense.

Alternatively, you could do 6 paladin, 2 revised ranger, getting both archery and tunnel fighting and spell slots as a 4th level full caster, which admittedly is only first and second level slots, but they have good buffs. and 12 levels of Moonbow warlock. You get the same ASI as 6/4/10, which is 4, but you get 3 Warlock slots at 5th level per short rest, and the lifedrinker invocation for your charisma to damage.

With your amazing stats, you could easily be a half elf, max charisma con and dex, and get something like sharpshooter. Or be a variant Human.

With redemption paladin and max dex your ac would be 21, and since you start at level 10, if you have 6 paladin at that point, with your high charisma and Dex, you will have nice AC and saves all around, your Wis and Charisma saves will be the best since you are proficient.

An alternate, more simplistic path is 8 Deepstalker Revised Ranger/12 Warlock. Proficiency in Str, Dex, and Wis saving throws, grab resilient Con and you have the big ones. 6 invocations, including 150ft darkvision, and Cha to damage(as necrotic damage). Use warlock spell slots to fuel smites with moonbow, use ranger slots for buffs like hex or hunter's mark, pass without a trace. you get 1 6th level spell.

[NinaWu]

Your stats are great, so here is something crazy.

A ranger/warlock, who hunts down sacrifices for his patron. 10, 12, 13, 16, 17, 18, the stats are there to do anything. Heck you can even get by throwing cantrips.

But see what the party is comprised of, and whittle it down.

Tempest cleric, medium armor with 2 levels of barbarian and 2 level of paladin.... grab a warhammer or maul and be Thor.

Str 18/ dex 12/ con 16/ int 10/ Wis 17/ chr 13.... or rearrange the stats

How would you develop option 1; ranger/warlock?
I'm not too concerned about party dynamics, it's a good group of players and all options have been/will be covered.

[NinaWu]

Edit: reread original post. PHB Only. do 8 Paladin/12 warlock. Fuel Paladin Smites with Warlock slots, unless you need a higher level cast for a spell. Pick Pact of tome for all rituals up to 6th level sells. Fiend or Archfey. Get lifedrinker invocation, and devil's sight. Max Str, Con, Cha.

PHB Ranger is not good. I would still ask about the stuff below.

Is UA Allowed? If so,

TL:DR: V.Human or Half Elf,

Simpler: 8 Deepstalker Revised Ranger/12 Fey Bladelock with Moonbow.

Gains. proficiency in Strength, Con, and Wisdom Saving throws, and +30ft darkvision to the warlock's Devil sight for 150ft darkvision that pierces magical darkness.

Start 6 ranger/4 warlock, or 5/5.

Complex: 6 Paladin of redemption/2 Revised Ranger(or fighter for action surge)/12 Fey Bladelock with Moonbow.

Gains: Proficiency in Wisdom and Charisma Saving throws, Charisma bonus to all saves, Unarmored/No Shield AC of 16+ Dex, Same spell slots as 8 Ranger, two Fighting Styles(archery & Close quarter's shooter), Paladin Spell list for first and second level spells, including Shield.

Loses in comparison: Str and Con save proficiency, 2nd level ranger spells known, Improved Darkvision, One ASI, Greater Favored Enemy, Dash as bonus action.

Start 6 Paladin/4 Warlock. fit ranger in whenever.


Long Rambling Reasoning:

Snag either some fighter or Paladin... the only problem is that you have overlapping Extra attack. But both get you a second Fighting style. Paladin 6 gets your cha to saves, which is strong. Fighter 6 gets you an ASI.

Paladin of Redemption gets 16 + Dex AC while unarmored and not using a shield. Which is better than an armored bow user.

Eldritch Knight and paladin get more spell slots for you to use. Paladin is better in this case for multiclassing.

Ranger Deepstalker 7, gets you Wis as a proficient save. Honestly though, I don't think higher level ranger is good at all. I prefer it for 4 levels, getting extra attack from another class. I also dont particularly like spell casting, but you are going warlock, and spell casting is good for the following. Revised Ranger is better than normal ranger, and isn't vastly over powered.


Fey Warlock with Pact of the Blade can get the MoonBow, which is a longbow summoned from PotB. and with it you can expend spell slots to cause a smite like effect, currently with no cap, but 2d8 damage per slot level.

So a Redemption paladin 6/Moon Bow Warlock 4 would be good since you start at 10. You can up paladin for more spell slots, and take 4 ranger or Fighter EK, getting a second fighting style, so you can have both archery and close quarters shooter for a +3 to hit, and some more spell slots. and for the last 6 levels you go 2/4 pally/warlock for two ASI, or 6 warlock, getting to 10, getting your 5th level slots, and beguiling defense.

Alternatively, you could do 6 paladin, 2 revised ranger, getting both archery and tunnel fighting and spell slots as a 4th level full caster, which admittedly is only first and second level slots, but they have good buffs. and 12 levels of Moonbow warlock. You get the same ASI as 6/4/10, which is 4, but you get 3 Warlock slots at 5th level per short rest, and the lifedrinker invocation for your charisma to damage.

With your amazing stats, you could easily be a half elf, max charisma con and dex, and get something like sharpshooter. Or be a variant Human.

With redemption paladin and max dex your ac would be 21, and since you start at level 10, if you have 6 paladin at that point, with your high charisma and Dex, you will have nice AC and saves all around, your Wis and Charisma saves will be the best since you are proficient.

An alternate, more simplistic path is 8 Deepstalker Revised Ranger/12 Warlock. Proficiency in Str, Dex, and Wis saving throws, grab resilient Con and you have the big ones. 6 invocations, including 150ft darkvision, and Cha to damage(as necrotic damage). Use warlock spell slots to fuel smites with moonbow, use ranger slots for buffs like hex or hunter's mark, pass without a trace. you get 1 6th level spell.

Thanks for the time you've put in here and the insights. Definitely only PHB but I really like the more complex combo's you've put in here.

[Khrysaes]

Thanks for the time you've put in here and the insights. Definitely only PHB but I really like the more complex combo's you've put in here.

do you get any free magic item?

I would still argue that Paladin 8/Warlock 12 is your best bet for PHB Only. I sure there are other multiclass options that add too it, like 2 ranger/rogue/fighter. Ranger is probably the worst of the 3, instead of 8 palaidin at the cost of the ASI and 7th level ability. and a spell slot, unless it is ranger. I think 2 sorc is good too? I am not sure if you can get quicken with 2 sorc.

with a 10, 12, 13, 16, 17, 18, I would say either up strength and use a heavier hitting weapon/heavy armor, or up dex and use a rapier. Dex is good even in heavy armor, for the more common saves and initiative. STR 15 is a requirement for fullplate, but it is also easier to get with magic items. You could also up dex and use cha to hit with shillelagh and a quarter staff or club. So decide if 15(+3 studded leather) + Dex(20), or 21(+3 full plate) is more up your alley. Dex is useful to either character, but less so to one who doesn't use it as ac, and with that 16 put into strength, you can hit pretty well, and wear full plate.

As a half elf you can start with 18/18/19/10/12/13 spread. which is 2 asi and resilient away from 3 20's. But if you don't care about getting 3 20's, a 20/18/16/14/12/10 may be a better spread. 1 ASI to cap Con. +5 to all saves at start from 6 paladin/4 warlock. This nets you more feats. gives you enough strength for the full plate, and a not horrible 14 dex for +2 on initiative and dex saves.

If you multiclass into something other than Warlock or Paladin, consider taking that class as your first level class for your save proficiency. although you would need 13 strength to get into Paladin. but with 6 paladin, and 20 charisma you get a +10 to charisma saves, so the charisma proficiency may be wasted for something that may be a better save like Con or Dex, with dex being a more apt choice because you can max Con easily too, so it would be in the same situation as Cha, although it is better. and a different secondary save. You could always take resilient wisdom if you want proficiency there.

Fighter for fighting style and action surge, giving you another action 1/short rest.

rogue for expertise and cunning action. and a small 1d6 sneak attack.

Ranger keeps the same spell slots, but the revised ranger is much better. You get a favored enemy, a natural terrain, and a second fighting style.

It still gets your massive charisma to saves and damage, with Agonizing Blast for ranged, and Lifedrinker for melee, if you go bladelock.

You save an invocation by getting extra attack from Paladin.

Paladin smites and warlock spell slots mesh well together.

You could still flavor it as someone hunting things for their patron.

Ancients(palaidn) and Fey (Warlock) a thematically similar enough that they could be the same higher power you make an oath to.

Tome warlocks are much more versatile than a familiar or blade. Because you can cast spells as rituals that emulate the same features, especially with more cantrips. Pick Guidance, and shocking grasp, vicious mockery, shillelagh, message, are good choices too.

[djreynolds]

How would you develop option 1; ranger/warlock?
I'm not too concerned about party dynamics, it's a good group of players and all options have been/will be covered.

A fighter/ warlock is easier to build simply with stats

But a ranger/warlock could be fun... story wise.

But you know what would be cool, monk/warlock.... Str 10/ dex 18/ con 13 / int 10/ Wis 17/ chr 16, grab human variant Str 10/ dex 18/ con 14 / int 10/ Wis 18/ chr 16 (put your +s in con and wisdom) AC 18.

You have great melee attack and eldritch blast.

Shadow monk 6/ Warlock 4.... 10th level Str 10/ dex 20 (asi)/ con 14 / int 10/ Wis 20 (ASi)/ chr 16 20AC

Grab devils sight and darkness... very good build

Try this thread out

http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?469125-GUIDE-Dealing-Death-Handbook-of-the-True-Assassin&p=6707781#post6707781

its in the forum's guide section, very good

[Khrysaes]

A fighter/ warlock is easier to build simply with stats

But a ranger/warlock could be fun... story wise.

But you know what would be cool, monk/warlock.... Str 10/ dex 18/ con 13 / int 10/ Wis 17/ chr 16, grab human variant Str 10/ dex 18/ con 14 / int 10/ Wis 18/ chr 16 (put your +s in con and wisdom) AC 18.

You have great melee attack and eldritch blast.

Shadow monk 6/ Warlock 4.... 10th level Str 10/ dex 20 (asi)/ con 14 / int 10/ Wis 20 (ASi)/ chr 16 20AC

Grab devils sight and darkness... very good build

Try this thread out

http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?469125-GUIDE-Dealing-Death-Handbook-of-the-True-Assassin&p=6707781#post6707781

its in the forum's guide section, very good


Yes, devils sight and darkness is a great combination.

[NinaWu]

A fighter/ warlock is easier to build simply with stats

But a ranger/warlock could be fun... story wise.

But you know what would be cool, monk/warlock.... Str 10/ dex 18/ con 13 / int 10/ Wis 17/ chr 16, grab human variant Str 10/ dex 18/ con 14 / int 10/ Wis 18/ chr 16 (put your +s in con and wisdom) AC 18.

You have great melee attack and eldritch blast.

Shadow monk 6/ Warlock 4.... 10th level Str 10/ dex 20 (asi)/ con 14 / int 10/ Wis 20 (ASi)/ chr 16 20AC

Grab devils sight and darkness... very good build

Try this thread out

http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?469125-GUIDE-Dealing-Death-Handbook-of-the-True-Assassin&p=6707781#post6707781

its in the forum's guide section, very good

Feats and archetypes?

[djreynolds]

Go to notable threads and the guides and classes

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?377491 just click this and go to class guides.

[NinaWu]

do you get any free magic item?

I would still argue that Paladin 8/Warlock 12 is your best bet for PHB Only. I sure there are other multiclass options that add too it, like 2 ranger/rogue/fighter. Ranger is probably the worst of the 3, instead of 8 palaidin at the cost of the ASI and 7th level ability. and a spell slot, unless it is ranger. I think 2 sorc is good too? I am not sure if you can get quicken with 2 sorc.

with a 10, 12, 13, 16, 17, 18, I would say either up strength and use a heavier hitting weapon/heavy armor, or up dex and use a rapier. Dex is good even in heavy armor, for the more common saves and initiative. STR 15 is a requirement for fullplate, but it is also easier to get with magic items. You could also up dex and use cha to hit with shillelagh and a quarter staff or club. So decide if 15(+3 studded leather) + Dex(20), or 21(+3 full plate) is more up your alley. Dex is useful to either character, but less so to one who doesn't use it as ac, and with that 16 put into strength, you can hit pretty well, and wear full plate.

As a half elf you can start with 18/18/19/10/12/13 spread. which is 2 asi and resilient away from 3 20's. But if you don't care about getting 3 20's, a 20/18/16/14/12/10 may be a better spread. 1 ASI to cap Con. +5 to all saves at start from 6 paladin/4 warlock. This nets you more feats. gives you enough strength for the full plate, and a not horrible 14 dex for +2 on initiative and dex saves.

If you multiclass into something other than Warlock or Paladin, consider taking that class as your first level class for your save proficiency. although you would need 13 strength to get into Paladin. but with 6 paladin, and 20 charisma you get a +10 to charisma saves, so the charisma proficiency may be wasted for something that may be a better save like Con or Dex, with dex being a more apt choice because you can max Con easily too, so it would be in the same situation as Cha, although it is better. and a different secondary save. You could always take resilient wisdom if you want proficiency there.

Fighter for fighting style and action surge, giving you another action 1/short rest.

rogue for expertise and cunning action. and a small 1d6 sneak attack.

Ranger keeps the same spell slots, but the revised ranger is much better. You get a favored enemy, a natural terrain, and a second fighting style.

It still gets your massive charisma to saves and damage, with Agonizing Blast for ranged, and Lifedrinker for melee, if you go bladelock.

You save an invocation by getting extra attack from Paladin.

Paladin smites and warlock spell slots mesh well together.

You could still flavor it as someone hunting things for their patron.

Ancients(palaidn) and Fey (Warlock) a thematically similar enough that they could be the same higher power you make an oath to.

Tome warlocks are much more versatile than a familiar or blade. Because you can cast spells as rituals that emulate the same features, especially with more cantrips. Pick Guidance, and shocking grasp, vicious mockery, shillelagh, message, are good choices too.

I'm popping a few of these options from the whole thread into the 5e app to see which best gels with me. So if I shoot for the 21(+3 full plate) how do I get that build to lv10?

Start half elf pally; STR; 17 (+1 HE) DEX; 12 or 10, CON; 18 INT; 10 WIS 13 (+1 HE) CHA; 16 (+2 HE)
Pally Fighting style; DEF or GWF?
Archetype; Vengeance (or themed with ancients and fey. Which would be better?)
Cap CON at 20 (ASI)
Archetype; Fiend
Any particular invocations?
Pact of the tome
Another ASI or feat? If feat, GWM?

Thoughts?

[Bloodcloud]

Barbarian gets a lot from high stats. And with such a group, wolf totem would be badass.

One fun multiclass build I found is ftr 7 warlock 13. ftr 1 - wlk 5 ftr 7 - wlk 13. Vhuman, start with crossbow expert and gain warcaster at 4.

Essentially you melee with eldritch blast and repelling blast, pushing your enemies away from the squishies, into area effect damage from casters. You have access to darkness/devil sight, or all ritual, or at-will disguise/illusion... your concentration is nigh unbreakable, and with action surge and eblast + hex you get some serious nova going, both in melee and range with brutal OAs. Very versatile, and powerfull.

[Citan]

Joining a game at lv10 and have some really good stats to work with and was looking for clever multiclassing combos/options, something different to play. Starting (lv1) stats are 10, 12, 13, 16, 17, 18, PHB only. Not really sure what I want to play, was hoping to get an idea or two from here (fingers crossed). All ideas appreciated.


I've played most, if not all classes, before. I was looking at a bard/pally but I think it's time for something new. I'm probably guilty of creating similar themed characters (usually DEX based) but never really played something clever using multiclassing (in 5e at least).

What would you create from the stats above?
Several great options.

Classics
Fighter 2 / Bladesinger 18: fighter for TWF style and action surge, Bladesinger for everything else. With a High Elf you can start with 20 DEX and 18 INT, 16 CON which is totally great.
DANG sorry missed the "PHB only" bit. Ah well, I let this here for anyone.

Eldricht Knight 11 / Sorcerer 9: start as Fighter, start dipping 1 level of Sorcerer after Fighter 5, then either aim for 3rd Attack first or towards 3rd level spells first (You could easily go ranged meaning you safely use Haste on yourself, which is not so far from having a permanent 3rd attack).

Life Cleric 1+ / Druid 1+ / Monk X (any): as a Wood Elf, you can start with 20 DEX and 18 WIS. Start Monk, dip one level somewhere around character lvl 5 (depending on whether there is already a Cleric or not), Druid somewhere after you get Extra Attack, then either stick Monk all the way up to 18 or make clever mix and matches.
Great Cleric spells with Monk: Bless, Shield of Faith, Spirit Guardians, Command.
Great Druid spells with Monk: Jump (non-concentration), Longstrider (non-concentration), Spike Growth (borderline OP depending on DM ruling about it being magical or not), Plant Growth, Thorns Whip...
An exceptionally good build (although it comes online late and bars many great high level features of Monk) is Land Druid 6-7 (Spike/Plant Growth with "free move" feature from Druid) paired with high movement Open Hand Monk and a single level in Rogue for Athletics Expertise.
Cast Plant Growth > You can pull/push them away to cluster them up for a friend's AOE, or just swiftly move and attack them while they struggle.
Since you have great starting stats, you could even stack Mobile and Mage Slayer. ;)
If DM considers Spike Growth is "non-magical plant", then you are more than golden. Shove the enemy, grapple him by foot (or whatever looks like it) and run him through the shards at your full speed, using Dash as bonus action.
2d4 per 5 feet may end up as (35 (Wood Elf) + 25 (Monk speed) + 10 (Longstrider)) normal speed, doubled by Haste (Grassland Druid), and tripled still by free Dash from Haste and Dash as bonus action from Monk.
((35+25+10)*2)*3/5 = (7+5+2)*2*3 = 84 instances of automatic 2d4 damage. So an average 210 damage PER TURN.
Isn't that stupidly efficient? ;) (Isn't that why any reasonable DM would consider Spike Growth magical? XD Although to be fair, even if it was, just have an ally cast Fly on you and it's nearly the same result, just hover over the spikes).

I'd like to suggest you some other crazy builds tailored to the fact you got some improbable multiclass available. But apart from Paladin 6 / Monk 14 I don't have time to think about it right now. Maybe tomorrow if you're still looking for ideas. ;)

[Khrysaes]

I'm popping a few of these options from the whole thread into the 5e app to see which best gels with me. So if I shoot for the 21(+3 full plate) how do I get that build to lv10?

Start half elf pally; STR; 17 (+1 HE) DEX; 12 or 10, CON; 18 INT; 10 WIS 13 (+1 HE) CHA; 16 (+2 HE)
Pally Fighting style; DEF or GWF?
Archetype; Vengeance (or themed with ancients and fey. Which would be better?)
Cap CON at 20 (ASI)
Archetype; Fiend
Any particular invocations?
Pact of the tome
Another ASI or feat? If feat, GWM?

Thoughts?

out of your non top 3 stats(str, con, cha), dex or wis pick one.Wis, you are proficient in this, so boosting it even more may be a waste, it does increase your perception though, which is by far the most used skill in the game, also, insight. Dex, You aren't proficient in the saves, and it ups initiative and stealth.. Int is completely useless to you.

you are already proficient in wisdom saves, and that +1 he bonus too it doesn't add much other than to round it out. If you went with 19 con, you can grab resilient, get proficiency AND cap it out, it is just as important as wis, if not more so. Either way, it is 3 ASI. One gets you a +1 wis save increase, one gets you a +2-6 Con save increase.

Are you going 8 Paladin over the course of the build? If so, maybe consider Oathbreaker Paladin in the DMG... if that is allowed... Or you can go 6 Paladin just for the saves and 14 warlock for the archetype and 7th level spell.

As for Vengeance or Ancients, it depends on how many paladin you are taking, same with Oathbreaker. if you are only going 6 paladin, I would suggest Vengeance, while if you go 7 or 8, Ancients is one of the best defensive abilities in the game, and Oathbreaker will up your damage, however, both of them have more lackluster channel divinity abilities and spells, so they rely on that 7th paladin level. Oathbreaker also fits with the Fiend warlock, although it also buffs enemy fiends, so a double edge sword.

On the brightside, if going Fiend Warlock, 6 paladin lets you get hurl through hell, a solid ability that can stop the big bad for a turn so your team can get some recovery in. Mind you, you wouldn't get this till 20.

Fighting Style: If you have a level of fighter(giving up warlock 14), you can get both. Otherwise, GWF is probably "better", because one is "only" a 5% less chance of being hit. Its really a choice between defensive or offensive focus, and whether your DM says that your smite dice can be rerolled with GWF.

If you go GWF, GWM is good. Otherwise.. don't grab it.

Lucky is always a good feat to get, especially as on a paladin the higher chance to crit(which is when you want to smite) by turning disadvantage into super advantage means a higher crit chance. and with an 8/12 split you get one more (after maxing str, con, cha).

Resilient is a good feat of course. Dex would be good since you have a high con and are already proficient in Wis.

Warcaster isn't a bad choice, nor is shield master if you use a shield, it is basically evasion. Polearm/Sentinal either together or by themselves, depending on what your weapon choice is. It really depends on what your play style is.

Invocations:

Since you aren't going blade route.

Devil's Sight, best darkvision in the game, only beaten by a warlock multiclassed deepstalker ranger from UA.

Agonizing Blast: A great boost to ranged damage.

Book of ancient secrets: The biggest reason to take Tomelock in the first place.

Beguiling influence: you have massive charisma, this gives you two of the most used charisma skills as proficiency, allowing you to take two others with your Paladin/Race/BG skills. Get perception, athletics, and probably stealth and insight if you can. Since these 6 skills are likely the most used. You also get 6 as of Class/Race/BG, so this isn't too pressing.

Repelling blast is incredibly useful for control. It is 10ft per hit, so up to 40ft per blast. If you push them off a cliff or into lava...

Master of Myriad forms: Worth mentioning. If you DM isn't using errata, the PHB doesn't specify warlock level of character level as the requirement. Incredibly useful if you can swing it at 15th character level.

Fiendish Vigor: A minor but useful boost to your HP, at will. Armor of Agathys light, especially as you are a melee combatant.

Sculpt the Flesh and Silent Image one have a lot of utility. Polymorph into something with a lot of HP can really extend your survivability. Silent Image is useful for distractions or hiding. Stay still in the woods under a silent image of a bush, and it may improve your stealth ability.

Others, like summoning an elemental, are also good. The elemental in particular is worth mentioning. Because of your high con + cha, especially if you become proficient in con saves, and take warcaster, it is really good because the elemental is powerful. But if you break concentration(all con saves) it turns on you.. so really only take it if you take Resilient Con and maybe warcaster.

[Yagyujubei]

just wanna throw in on shadow monk/warlock. That's the most fun I've had out of all the classes ive played by far but its really MAD so this might be a good time to play it if you never have. plus a really high dex would benefit the high number of attacks a monk gets with flurry. you can go chainlock to get a super familiar and be the best spy/scout ever. Also, it wouldnt hurt to see if your DM would allow you to sacrifice an ASI/feat to make it so shadow walk didn't take up a bonus action as having too many abilities that use the bonus action is the only weakness of the build.

if that isnt your cup of tea, paladin is unbeatably good with a strong stat array. can sub warlock or bard or sorcerer for wacky nonsense

[Mortis_Elrod]

i'm going to go ahead and give you something really weird.
VHuman
lvl1
Str 13(+1) Dex 12 Con 16 Int 10 Wis 17(+1) Cha 18
Pole arm Master
by level 10
Str 14 Dex 12 Con 16 Int 10 Wis 20 Cha 20
Moon Druid 8 / Paladin 2
Polearm master

When not in Animal form you use a quaerstaff and shield. But thats only if fighting is neccesary, you do have 20 in CHA and wisdom. Gain insight and the social skills, as well as perception to be a wise old man with a mean stick. If you must fight go animal form and bite smite. If you don't need to smite you got HP coming back with those left over slots. You don't need high str or dex because you use the animal's, and shillelagh out of wildshape. Also you are a fullcaster still. No extra attack but PAM is very good and almost makes up for it. Add in more Druid or pally levels as desired. Go OoTA for maximum synergy.


For AC pick up some Scale Mail, or some Half Slate (Slate is a good sturdy rock/ not metal) , or mabe your dm is reasonable and will let you have metal armor (i doubt it nobody likes metal druids, they prefer punk rock druids).

Start whichever you like, though i think pally gets better starting stuff... just make sure to pick up Deception/Persuasion, Insight and Perception as skills. For cantrips ...Shillelagh, Guidance and one other your choice. For Wildshape forms to focus on i think there's a list somewhere....
Right so when you wildshape you should go these options:
Damage- Giant Elk: charge them till they fall then kick them when they are down.
Flight- Giant Eagle: Fly away, maybe drop off a ring or two at the nearest volcano, or save the day. decent damage too
Swim- Plesiosauras: you swim good. okay damage.
Tank- Um... look for highest HP and AC. though its not gonna be alot, might want to get out if you need to tank.

This is a fun build usually unavailable due to stats. I recommend it as well as having you quarterstaff made out of Mahogany. But not just any mahogany, but mahogany from the plane Melchior 7, where the trees grow over 300 feet tall and breath FIRE!. From these trees your quarterstaff was forged in an ancient blood ritual of the melchior people. Not only does this make your quarterstaff nigh indestructible, but it can also bend the fabric of space and time itself!

[JAL_1138]

Are those stats pre-racial bonus? If so, go half-elf, put the 18 in Con, the 16 in Cha (racial +2 to 18), the 17 in Dex (take one of your racial +1s in it to get 18), put the 13 in Wis (take your other racial +1 to bump it to 14), the 12 in Int, and the 10 in Str. Take two levels of Fighter (take Archery Style) and eight levels of Valor Bard, build for Dex, take Crossbow Expert and Sharpshooter at Bard 4 and Bard 8. Take Greater Invisibility as one of your spells, so you can use it to get easy Advantage on attacks and give Disadvantage to most people trying to hit you. And when they do hit you, your 18 Con gives you a bucketload of HP, and starting Fighter gives you Con save proficiency. You'd be a solid spellcaster (with decent healing, too), a solid archer, and a solid skillmonkey. With Action Surge from Fighter 2, to drop two spells a round or a full round of attacks after casting a spell, or a total of five attacks in a round.

If you're going to level up from there, take Elemental Weapon as a Magical Secret at Bard 10, and take Dex to 20 at Bard 12. At Bard 16, take Cha to 20.

You could get 20s in Dex (and Cha, if you're going to level past 10) faster by sticking to 16 Con and going Vhuman, starting with 18 dex, 16 Con, and 18 Cha. Crossbow Expert as your starting feat, Sharpshooter at Bard 4, and Dex to 20 at Bard 8.

[Khrysaes]

Are those stats pre-racial bonus? If so, go half-elf, put the 18 in Con, the 16 in Cha (racial +2 to 18), the 17 in Dex (take one of your racial +1s in it to get 18), put the 13 in Wis (take your other racial +1 to bump it to 14), the 12 in Int, and the 10 in Str. Take two levels of Fighter (take Archery Style) and eight levels of Valor Bard, build for Dex, take Crossbow Expert and Sharpshooter at Bard 4 and Bard 8. Take Greater Invisibility as one of your spells, so you can use it to get easy Advantage on attacks and give Disadvantage to most people trying to hit you. And when they do hit you, your 18 Con gives you a bucketload of HP, and starting Fighter gives you Con save proficiency. You'd be a solid spellcaster (with decent healing, too), a solid archer, and a solid skillmonkey. With Action Surge from Fighter 2, to drop two spells a round or a full round of attacks after casting a spell, or a total of five attacks in a round.

If you're going to level up from there, take Elemental Weapon as a Magical Secret at Bard 10, and take Dex to 20 at Bard 12. At Bard 16, take Cha to 20.

You could get 20s in Dex (and Cha, if you're going to level past 10) faster by sticking to 16 Con and going Vhuman, starting with 18 dex, 16 Con, and 18 Cha. Crossbow Expert as your starting feat, Sharpshooter at Bard 4, and Dex to 20 at Bard 8.

Swift quiver may be a great choice too..

[JAL_1138]

Swift quiver may be a great choice too..

It is.

I haven't crunched the numbers to see which average damage is higher when accounting for accuracy and crit chance (not even sure I remember how)--Swift Quiver gets an extra attack, with each attack doing less damage than an Elemental Weapon attack, but has an extra chance to hit and to crit. Elemental Weapon gets better accuracy (between EW at 5th level and Archery Style, you're effectively at a -1 to hit instead of a -5) and does 2d4 extra damage per attack, but it gets fewer attacks than Swift Quiver. That's assuming a hand-crossbow--Swift Quiver can be used to great effect with a heavy crossbow or longbow for really long range attacks, whereas Elemental Weapon doesn't keep up with Swift Quiver if you're not getting a bonus action attack with a hand crossbow, I think even if you upcast it to 7th level for +3 to hit and +3d4 damage.

If you call damage a wash, some advantages EW has over SQ are that EW makes the weapon count as magical (especially helpful if you can't guarantee you'll get a magic weapon), can be tailored to the enemy's resistances, lasts an hour instead of 10 minutes, and can be cast on another party member if it's needed. I personally like it better for those reasons, despite the range limitations of hand crossbows. Hard to go wrong with either, though.

[NinaWu]

do you get any free magic item?

I would still argue that Paladin 8/Warlock 12 is your best bet for PHB Only. I sure there are other multiclass options that add too it, like 2 ranger/rogue/fighter. Ranger is probably the worst of the 3, instead of 8 palaidin at the cost of the ASI and 7th level ability. and a spell slot, unless it is ranger. I think 2 sorc is good too? I am not sure if you can get quicken with 2 sorc.

with a 10, 12, 13, 16, 17, 18, I would say either up strength and use a heavier hitting weapon/heavy armor, or up dex and use a rapier. Dex is good even in heavy armor, for the more common saves and initiative. STR 15 is a requirement for fullplate, but it is also easier to get with magic items. You could also up dex and use cha to hit with shillelagh and a quarter staff or club. So decide if 15(+3 studded leather) + Dex(20), or 21(+3 full plate) is more up your alley. Dex is useful to either character, but less so to one who doesn't use it as ac, and with that 16 put into strength, you can hit pretty well, and wear full plate.

As a half elf you can start with 18/18/19/10/12/13 spread. which is 2 asi and resilient away from 3 20's. But if you don't care about getting 3 20's, a 20/18/16/14/12/10 may be a better spread. 1 ASI to cap Con. +5 to all saves at start from 6 paladin/4 warlock. This nets you more feats. gives you enough strength for the full plate, and a not horrible 14 dex for +2 on initiative and dex saves.

If you multiclass into something other than Warlock or Paladin, consider taking that class as your first level class for your save proficiency. although you would need 13 strength to get into Paladin. but with 6 paladin, and 20 charisma you get a +10 to charisma saves, so the charisma proficiency may be wasted for something that may be a better save like Con or Dex, with dex being a more apt choice because you can max Con easily too, so it would be in the same situation as Cha, although it is better. and a different secondary save. You could always take resilient wisdom if you want proficiency there.

Fighter for fighting style and action surge, giving you another action 1/short rest.

rogue for expertise and cunning action. and a small 1d6 sneak attack.

Ranger keeps the same spell slots, but the revised ranger is much better. You get a favored enemy, a natural terrain, and a second fighting style.

It still gets your massive charisma to saves and damage, with Agonizing Blast for ranged, and Lifedrinker for melee, if you go bladelock.

You save an invocation by getting extra attack from Paladin.

Paladin smites and warlock spell slots mesh well together.

You could still flavor it as someone hunting things for their patron.

Ancients(palaidn) and Fey (Warlock) a thematically similar enough that they could be the same higher power you make an oath to.

Tome warlocks are much more versatile than a familiar or blade. Because you can cast spells as rituals that emulate the same features, especially with more cantrips. Pick Guidance, and shocking grasp, vicious mockery, shillelagh, message, are good choices too.

Yep, total spend of 12,500gp must have 2 uncommon items at 3000gp or less EACH. 1 rare only.

[Khrysaes]

Yep, total spend of 12,500gp must have 2 uncommon items at 3000gp or less EACH. 1 rare only.

Is it 12500gp AND 2 uncommon and 1 rare? or is it 12500GP to spend, with some of it being FORCED to be spent on those 3 magic items?

NOTE: This is riskier, but may be worth it. So consider...

One option is to pick the belt of Hill Giants strength as your Rare item, then you can put your 10 into strength. However, should you lose the belt or it be disabled....

pick up a mithral or adamantine/+1 armor, and a +1 weapon as your uncommon items, unless something really stands out to you.

With this your starting stats would be, before race, 21(str), 18, 17, 16, 13, 12, and you don't need int. Perhaps put the 13 into wis.

If half elf you could start with a nice 21 str, 19 con, 18 cha, 17 or 18 dex or wis, and 13 or 14 the other one.

I lean towards 18 dex, being proficient in wis on top of charisma if you go 6 paladin, also benefits you stealth and inititive rolls. 18 Wis would benefit your perception and insight, both great skills.

With 1 ASI into Cha, and 1 ASI into resilent Con, you have 21 str, 20 cha, 20 con, and proficiency in con saves, making it very hard to interrupt your spells that require concentration. This also frees up (if 8 paladin 12 warlock, or some other 8/12 split), 3 ASI.

You can't buff STR past 21 with ASI. if you use ASI on STR, then it just raises from 10 should you take your belt off.

There are higher level belts too if you find them, should you need an increase in STR.

As far as skill proficiencies go,

try and snag Perception, Stealth, Insight, Persuasion, Deception, and one of Acrobatics or Athletics. This combination seems to be the most commonly used skill set, and you should get 2 from race, 2 from class, and 2 from background.
The criminal(spy), or Urban bounty hunter(Scag) are always considered good, because it gets you two of those, Stealth and Deception, and thieves tools. Bounty hunter fits a paladin more. Though a redeemed criminal turned paladin isn't a bad choice.

Paladin gets Persuasion and Insight or athletics.

Half elf gets the other two.