Bard homebrew PEACH!: More journeyman, less spellcaster

[JackOfAllBuilds]

Idea: Bard with half-casting and number of* known spells equal to* Ranger, extra attack at 5 in the core class, magical secrets at 6, 10, 18 (don't count against total known like additional magical secrets), any college feature of extra attack or magical secrets swapped 6th/14th level features (and works like fighter 11 extra attack)

Cantrips and Spellcasting at 1, leveled spells and slots at 2, bonus feat at 1; choice of inspiring leader or healer.

My idea is to take it away from a full spellcaster, and make it more of a journeyman, who is just using magic to get by. Thoughts?

*edited for clarity of not using ranger spell list

[cotofpoffee]

I don't see why it wouldn't work. Though I don't know if I would play this over just a Ranger or original Bard mechanically.

Thematically I'm a little concerned about using the Ranger spell-list for this concept. It's very nature themed. It's not a list of spells for people who are trying use magic to get by. It's a spell-list for a very martially inclined class to make their weapon skills stronger.

Wouldn't your concept of a journeyman be easily realized just by playing a low leveled character? Every character becomes an expert at what they do at high levels anyways.

[Laurefindel]

Thematically I'm a little concerned about using the Ranger spell-list for this concept. It's very nature themed.

OP does not refer to using ranger spells, but a number of spell known (presumably from the bard spells list) and spell progression equal to that of a ranger.

[RSP]

I don't think changing Bard from fullcaster to half caster for an extra attack is balanced, even with moving up the level 14 abilities. what are you giving at level 14? I think all this would do is limit the class to 6 levels (extra attack, level 14 abilities and magic secrets) before multiclassing off.

[JackOfAllBuilds]

I don't think changing Bard from fullcaster to half caster for an extra attack is balanced, even with moving up the level 14 abilities. what are you giving at level 14? I think all this would do is limit the class to 6 levels (extra attack, level 14 abilities and magic secrets) before multiclassing off.

Swapping around the abilities from the colleges so that those normally gained at 6 are moved to 14, and vis-versa.

Half caster with extra attack is ranger and paladin, so I think it's balanced. Greater healing and support balanced by lower hit die.

And I was saying a 14 valor bard would get 3 attacks for their action (college of swords too?) lack of spells of levels >5 warrants it I think (3levels later than fighter, and never gaining 4th attack cap)

[nickl_2000]

The only thing I am struggling with there is the ability to cast cantrips. I get the idea thematically why they would be able to cast them, but it gives them a leg up on all other 1/2 casters, and honestly cantrips can become pretty darn powerful.

Maybe if you took away ritual casting it would balance it out? Just a thought, maybe you have a better idea (or maybe you already feel you balanced it out :) )

[RSP]

Swapping around the abilities from the colleges so that those normally gained at 6 are moved to 14, and vis-versa.

Half caster with extra attack is ranger and paladin, so I think it's balanced. Greater healing and support balanced by lower hit die.

And I was saying a 14 valor bard would get 3 attacks for their action (college of swords too?) lack of spells of levels >5 warrants it I think (3levels later than fighter, and never gaining 4th attack cap)

The extra attack might work for the Valor Bard, but giving Lore an extra attack doesn't do nearly as much. The loss of spells for attack forces the class to a) be more MAD, and b) work around light armor and d8 hit points.

Essentially, this works if you're all about combat, as you're suggesting trading versatility for more damage for the class.

Valor Bard may work better in combat than a Fighter with this change, while the Lore probably loses out on having to drop Chr for Dex and, possibly, Con. You could play it as purely ranged, but it would be the only class typecast like that from a design perspective.

Personally, I like the Bard the way it is, but it could work, though I'd put more time in looking at Valor vs Fighter and make sure you aren't getting into the "casters are better fighters than fighters" with the extra attack and poached spells.

Likewise, I'd look at what the Lore actually would need to make use of the extra attack: I'm playing one now and they're too squishy to be in melee regularly to make use of the extra attack. And with less spells, they'd be forced to pick up a bow or just rely more on Cantrips. I'm not sure you're getting any mileage toward the flavor of the archetype by lessening its versatility in favor of adding damage.