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Crusher
2017-05-18, 08:25 PM
As a player, to me, doing more things = having more fun. So, ideally, I try to build characters with interesting backstories who can reasoanly reliably use their bonus actions and/or reactions in combat.

So I have an idea for a character. Point buy, AL. Stupid but good, and he never knew his father but mom always said he was part-dragon (like Star-Lord, kinda, but dumber).

I'm thinking he starts off vHuman for Dual-Wielder, and a martial class so he can dual wield something like longsword + whip (dragon's fang and the dragon's tail!). Or maybe rapier if Dex based.

Then at level 2 or 3 or so, he multiclasses into Sorc as a dragon sorc (Mom was telling the truth!!!!!) and then starts tossing around Greenflame Blades.

The trick is to find a way to make his bonus actions/reactions useful. If he uses the scales for AC he can't use Defensive Fighting style, and with no shield he can't go Protection. If he uses GFB he's not using Attack action so no bonus action off-hand attacks.

Is there a way to make these pieces fit? I like the idea of Paladin/Sorc (smiting with Reach seems spiffy), but he'd never get to do it if he uses GFB, right? Plus, no dual-wield style if regular attacking makes sense. Can Dueling be made to work? Perhaps Ranger instead?

Other than occasionally Quickening a GFB it doesn't seem like there's a way to make the off-hand weapon more than just for show. Its a conundrum. Are there other bonus action attacks/abilities I'm overlooking? I'd like him to be mostly together at a fairly low level.

Mongobear
2017-05-18, 08:37 PM
Don't go dual wield.

Instead of the Dual Wielder feat, take Polearm Master. This one Feat gives you not only a reliable Bonus Action, but ALSO a reliable Opportunity Attack.

Level 1 V. Human, take PAM and be a Paladin, take Defense fighting style, wear Chainmail. Get to Paladin 2 (3 if you want Devotion's Channel Divinity) or Paladin 6 if you want Extra Attack just because their Aura is amazing.

After your Paladin levels, go straight Sorcerer. Draconic is still good even if you wear heavy armor. Use Metamagic to buff up turn 1 with Quicken since it takes your Action to activate Sacred Weapon (if you go that far into Paladin). After that, Smite your heart out.

Consensus
2017-05-18, 08:39 PM
I dont have much to add, but if UA is avaible a fighting style you'd wanna look at is mariner. +1 AC as long as you don't wear heavy armor and a climbing and swimming speed.

Khrysaes
2017-05-18, 08:45 PM
Don't go dual wield.

Instead of the Dual Wielder feat, take Polearm Master. This one Feat gives you not only a reliable Bonus Action, but ALSO a reliable Opportunity Attack.

Level 1 V. Human, take PAM and be a Paladin, take Defense fighting style, wear Chainmail. Get to Paladin 2 (3 if you want Devotion's Channel Divinity) or Paladin 6 if you want Extra Attack just because their Aura is amazing.

After your Paladin levels, go straight Sorcerer. Draconic is still good even if you wear heavy armor. Use Metamagic to buff up turn 1 with Quicken since it takes your Action to activate Sacred Weapon (if you go that far into Paladin). After that, Smite your heart out.

I agree with this. if you go Paladin of the Ancients, and go to level 8, you do sacrifice 7th level spells.. :( but you get an amazing Defensive buff, and still get 5 ASI. you could drop the 5th ASI for the 7th level spells and 13 sorc though. Definitely Avenging or Devotion paladin if you have less than 7 paladin. 14th level is your dragon wings, although if gooing paladin it wouldn't be gotten until 20th level anyways.

You could then try to reflavor your paladin to be more sorc like. Perhaps this paladin draws on their bloodline. Perhaps the Ancient is your Ancient Dragon Father?

Or, while it would be less optimal. a Tempest Cleric/Lightning dragon Sorceror. instead of praying to the lightning god, your power is all Bloodline.

Corran
2017-05-18, 08:59 PM
If you want to dual wield a longsword/rapier and a whip, and still use GFB, you can only do it with haste on.

You use your action for gfb, you use the action granted from haste to make a longsword/rapier attack, and that attack procs your bonus action for a whip attack (assuming dual wielder).

Haste hurts when dropped, so starting with a class that gives you con save proficiency (fighter or sorcerer, or even barbarian, but I do not really recommend this last one, unless perhaps it fits the flavour you are looking for that much) will definitelly help. Warcaster will also help, both in keeping you concentration on haste, and in casting your sorcerer spells with your hands full.

A variant human sorcerer can have all these by level 5.

I suggest going dex based (especially since you want to rely and show off your dragon scales).

Playing like a skirmisher would be recommended (any chance you change your heritage to lightning dragon to justify more BB -well, it does thunder and not lightning damage but whatever).

ps: Adding mobile eventually, and taking a level of warlock at some point later in your career (for armor of agathys), could be of much help mechanically. Could the warlock pact be with dad (and refluff fiend pact as dragon pact, with all these fiery spells they get? up to you, but know that armor of agathys is too good on squishy gishes -though cold damage now that I think of it:smallfrown:)

Crusher
2017-05-21, 12:22 AM
If you want to dual wield a longsword/rapier and a whip, and still use GFB, you can only do it with haste on.

You use your action for gfb, you use the action granted from haste to make a longsword/rapier attack, and that attack procs your bonus action for a whip attack (assuming dual wielder).

Haste hurts when dropped, so starting with a class that gives you con save proficiency (fighter or sorcerer, or even barbarian, but I do not really recommend this last one, unless perhaps it fits the flavour you are looking for that much) will definitelly help. Warcaster will also help, both in keeping you concentration on haste, and in casting your sorcerer spells with your hands full.

A variant human sorcerer can have all these by level 5.

I suggest going dex based (especially since you want to rely and show off your dragon scales).

Playing like a skirmisher would be recommended (any chance you change your heritage to lightning dragon to justify more BB -well, it does thunder and not lightning damage but whatever).

ps: Adding mobile eventually, and taking a level of warlock at some point later in your career (for armor of agathys), could be of much help mechanically. Could the warlock pact be with dad (and refluff fiend pact as dragon pact, with all these fiery spells they get? up to you, but know that armor of agathys is too good on squishy gishes -though cold damage now that I think of it:smallfrown:)

I really appreciate everyone's input. Corran especially, great ideas. Might start him Sorc and go 5 straight levels for Haste before multiclassing into something martial (up to then he's stuck dual-wielding daggers... or 1h quarterstaffs).

Khrysaes
2017-05-21, 03:00 AM
I really appreciate everyone's input. Corran especially, great ideas. Might start him Sorc and go 5 straight levels for Haste before multiclassing into something martial (up to then he's stuck dual-wielding daggers... or 1h quarterstaffs).

If you go Paladin as your martial, which seems likely as it meshes well with sorc, It may be worth considering taking first, you get a wis save instead of con though, which may not be what you want.
You may also want to consider skills and starting equipment.

But, you are going to want more levels from sorcerer, for higher and more spell slots that can fuel smite. Also more spells and sorcery points. Find your cutoff points, with paladin its usually 6, 7, or 8, for Aura, Subclass Feature, and ASI respectively. Depends on your subclass and how much you want the ASI.

6 gets Cha to saves.

7: An Ancients paladin would want this, while a vengeance paladin wouldn't care as much. Consider the spells and level 3 ability when choosing the subclass. If you don't want level 7, then get a stronger level 3.

8: ASI, 8/12 is the only way to have the same amount as a non multiclassed character, unless it is in combination with fighter or rogue, who get a bonus one at 6 and 10 respectively.

Consider what you lose from sorc for levels 13 and 14.

13 = level 7 spell KNOWN. 14 is bloodline ability, which again depends on your bloodline as to how good it is. Is wings better than aura of warding?

With paladin/sorc, multiclass spellslots apply, so a 8/12 will have slots as a level 16 sorc, while a 6/14 will have slots as a level 17 sorc.

I am AFB and forget if 7/13 rounds up or down, but its a 16 or 17 sorc. Wont have spells known, but good for upcasting using lower slots for smite.

Lombra
2017-05-21, 06:21 AM
I had the same action economy dilemma while building a gish character. I wanted it versatile, but sorcadin didn't convince me and eldritch knight just felt too martial for my likings. I opted for a Fighter 1/bladelock X, heavy armor and CON proficiency, polearm master, war caster, heavy armor master, great use for reactions and bonus actions.

JAL_1138
2017-05-21, 07:08 AM
Spell Sniper will give you 10ft reach with Booming Blade or Greenflame Blade, and Booming Blade can be Twinned (although my understanding is that GFB can't, since it targets multiple creatures). If you go with a dragon heritage that has a lightning breath-weapon instead of fire, it doesn't get the extra damage (BB is Thunder) but it fits quite nicely thematically.

JellyPooga
2017-05-21, 08:28 AM
If you really want to make the most of bonus actions, then a 2 level dip into Rogue is a must-have for Cunning Action, when you don't need that extra attack that PAM/dual wielding offers.

Don't forget to pick up Misty Step as well, if you can get your mitts on it. Handy for when disengage isn't quite good enough.