Storm King's Thunder Party Op for Noob DM

[stormsouldevil]

Help me, help my players? We are all pretty much noobs and as GM that weight follows heaviest on me. (Please Tag spoilers. Not for my benefit of course just for the benefit of other peeps)

I'd like to avoid introducing them to the fun of character death for a while. Since I hear that levels 1-3 are littered with the corpses of characters I figure the best way is to keep them fairly well built. Both as a party and as individual characters


We have
1 Human Druid
1 Water Genasi Cleric
2 undecideds (Bard, Wizard and Ranger have been popular choices.
1 Half Orc barbarian (Me :D)

The druid and Cleric are probably following spell builds, and the barb is looking at sword and board. I know that while fighting giants the shield wont be a lotta good because of size differences; but I needs a tank. Also thought about pushing towards goliath because of thematics; but Id need a pretty good reason to do so.

I think that one character is definitely going for the Ranger (UA of course) with dex and the other will then probably go Bard.

So like I said? Does this look like its heading in the direction I want? A solid balanced party that can handle things. Should I be sheparding one player towards a certain path? or worse making sure they dont take something useless?

All input welcome.

[Sariel Vailo]

give them a way to heal make health potions available. and if they died they should have used an action to heal. theyve got the potions.or options.
either way ranger has healing spells but they may not want to use them.alla (battle mercy)aka cancer. bard has healing paladin and if that fails aasimar have a minor healing ability. just be cool miss hits occasionally if youre rolling hot.its about their fun and your story even if "hit" say it missed. treat important story encounters as an actual fight. random fights as well stage productions. have a dm face. for new dms its the hide behind youre screen rolling dice and look up somberly prepare a dificult encounter that you are sure theyll win and actually let loose.

[Prakriti]

Do I understand this right? You plan on playing a character in a game you yourself are DMing? Because this is actually one of the cardinal sins of DMing and definitely not something you want to do. Do a search for "DMPC" for more information.

[Mhl7]

We are all pretty much noobs and as GM that weight follows heaviest on me.

1 Half Orc barbarian (Me :D)


I strongly advise against doing this. DMPC are usually bad. There are various reasons. First of all it is bad for you: as a first time DM you will be very busy all the time, the DMPC is just another layer of complication that you will put yourself in. You run in to the risk of doing your job, DMing, worse because you have too much on the table.
However, things can be worse: you can incur the risk of stealing the spotlight. This is the worst experience ever from the player perspective. It feels like watching a show, not participating in a game and it sucks.

I never use a DMPC and I think you shouldn't. At the very least until you have enough experience to use it correctly. For sure not as a first time DM.

If you feel like they need some help, you can introduce NPCs. For this, always use pregenerated characters (like the ones at the back of the Monster Manual or Volo's Guide). If you create them, they can be too OP or you can be too attached, or both.
If an NPC is helping the party, I usually do it like this.
There are 'one shot NPCs', but there can also be 'perpetual NPCs'. In the former case the NPCs sticks with the party for just one or two encounter. For instance if you feel that they need help. This can also be very strong NPCs, but they usually cover support roles. For instance a cleric will use Bless on three party member and then spend the rest of the fight healing the **** out of the PCs. He won't cast spirit guardian and dive in the center of the battle raining death on the enemies. This is bad: it takes the spotlight away from the PCs.
In the case of 'perpetual NPCs' I follow these rules: they are weaker than the party, waaaaay weaker. They cover secondary roles and they NEVER excel in what they do. It is alway the party that decides wether to keep them or not. I give the stats to the players so that they can use them and I have less on my plate.

Don't worry about players death. Spending the night looking at the DM playing with themselves is way worst than dying at every encounter!

[Malifice]

Help me, help my players? We are all pretty much noobs and as GM that weight follows heaviest on me. (Please Tag spoilers. Not for my benefit of course just for the benefit of other peeps)

I'd like to avoid introducing them to the fun of character death for a while. Since I hear that levels 1-3 are littered with the corpses of characters I figure the best way is to keep them fairly well built. Both as a party and as individual characters


We have
1 Human Druid
1 Water Genasi Cleric
2 undecideds (Bard, Wizard and Ranger have been popular choices.
1 Half Orc barbarian (Me :D)

The druid and Cleric are probably following spell builds, and the barb is looking at sword and board. I know that while fighting giants the shield wont be a lotta good because of size differences; but I needs a tank. Also thought about pushing towards goliath because of thematics; but Id need a pretty good reason to do so.

I think that one character is definitely going for the Ranger (UA of course) with dex and the other will then probably go Bard.

So like I said? Does this look like its heading in the direction I want? A solid balanced party that can handle things. Should I be sheparding one player towards a certain path? or worse making sure they dont take something useless?

All input welcome.

Just make sure you dont let them long rest till they've gotten around 6 encounters as a general rule and you'll be fine.

Either place time constraints on them (machinations of the temples), environmental challenges (the cultists come react to what they do) or use the gritty rest variant.

Not doing this is a common noob DM mistake.

[Khrysaes]

I agree with the comments above about DM PC's. Unless you just have them stand around unless talked to, perhaps an NPC to provide story exposition.
The only time they should take the initiative is to forward a story, but not hog the spotlight.

If you want to see good DM PC's watch the 6-14 or so episodes of Critical Role, the more the better. The DM has two, a Mind Flayer Mage(sorc or wiz), and a Halfling Paladin.

I would say that watching Critical Role is just a good lesson on DMing in any case, the DM does it very well to me.

Episode 12 is also good to watch as a stand alone for DM tips.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-p9lWIhcLQ&list=PL7atuZxmT954bCkC062rKwXTvJtcqFB8i

[Contrast]

I'm playing in a campaign recently where the DM is new and didn't feel we were struggling enough. Rather than giving us more combats he decided to give us a harder combat. We were only level 2 with the hit points that entailed and 3 PCs were making death saving throws within 2 rounds.

Party build out obviously has an impact on their ability to survive but it remains pretty trivial in the face of your ability as the DM to pit them against things. I would try and deliberately softball encounters until you start to get hang of the system a little more yourself (or make sure to leave yourself an out in terms of allied reinforcements or a need to take the PCs alive, etc) and remember that multiple smaller combats are easier for you to balance and adjust (or comepletely remove if the party is on its last legs) than one big combat.

[stormsouldevil]

Thanks to everyone who has and will reply.

DM stuff: I am going to be using roll20 so my ability to softball is quite limited. "Uhhh Dm that's clearly a crit.....". Gem of this treasure hoard is of course "Combat more, not combat unfair". Ive been in games where that has happened and its not the funnest. But the circumstances that lead to that are extreme. (Weird and odd party optimization in pathfinder)

DMPC: Ty everyone for the concern, I'm noob to 5e but not noob to rolling dice. I've seen DMPC done both really well and really bad. The bad examples abound of course, but ive found moderate DMPCs are really good. Never hogging the spot light and being a bit more background but also not being an obvious thing either. Further not having a lot of "God speaks to me" moments (if any). I will of course look at the sources provided and recommended but especially considering my concerns I dont think I will be abandoning it.

[Contrast]

By softball I didn't really mean fudge the dice (though that works too I guess).

I meant pit them against disorganised bandits rather than organised bandits (meaning when you're running them they aren't as tactically smart and run away easier) or if they're going to be against organised bandits, put in a couple fewer than suggested (as I said, just til you start to get a feel for the system). Nothing worse than accidentally killing the party because you didn't realise how dangerous something was :smallbiggrin:

If the players are new as well they probably won't be operating at peak efficiency either so it'll probably balance out anyway.

[stormsouldevil]

Oh yeah. I am going to pit them up to some more tactically intensive stuff but on the whole id rather see them having the tactical advantage. Using a module makes things a bit more complicated but I can soft ball that.

[Douche]

Do I understand this right? You plan on playing a character in a game you yourself are DMing? Because this is actually one of the cardinal sins of DMing and definitely not something you want to do. Do a search for "DMPC" for more information.

Ya know, I'm a bit perplexed by this. I've always taken it as a given before, but since then I've noticed.... Well, the DMPC never actually solves any problems. He's just another body for combat. My DMs have utilized this before when we're short a person, and the DMPC never makes any skill checks, never speaks unless spoken to (it'd also be pretty weird for a DM to just roleplay a conversation between his PC & NPC). He's just there to help us fight when we're understaffed, so to speak.

[stormsouldevil]

I've seen and used DMPC to add to the party outside of combat. Either with skills ot the like.

A DMPC will typically at best be quieter. A good DM can handle the occasional conversation with their PC but it does make the most sense to pick a Clas wit more limited social skills.

[Sir cryosin]

You have a nice sizes party there is no need for a DMPC. The group I'm playing with we are playing throught storm kings thunder and we are all squishy PC's. A rogue,bard,druid, artificer, and a wiz-cleric only one lv of cleric. We have only one character die and that was my mystic because I was stupid and ran into a room by my self with 5 giants and 4 goblin's in it. And trued to fight them. But my point you don't need a optimized party. I play and DM in 3 games a week and are saying if any ask what is everyone else playing is just play what you want and what looks fun.

Here is some advice. stop stressing over this. Don't run a DMPC. Read the module so you not sitting there reading to much during the game. And just have fun remember your playing the monsters have fun with them instead of a DMPC.

[Mortis_Elrod]

Do I understand this right? You plan on playing a character in a game you yourself are DMing? Because this is actually one of the cardinal sins of DMing and definitely not something you want to do. Do a search for "DMPC" for more information.

It's actually not hard to do right, i play DMPC's all the time. Party loves the characters quirks. All you have to do is not shine, which is easy.

[stormsouldevil]

Lol, that's how my normal PCs end up most of the time. When I'm DM I command attention, but as a PC I typicly fade into the background a bit. Not helped by the fact that I typically go for odd classes

[Vogonjeltz]

Help me, help my players? We are all pretty much noobs and as GM that weight follows heaviest on me. (Please Tag spoilers. Not for my benefit of course just for the benefit of other peeps)

I'd like to avoid introducing them to the fun of character death for a while. Since I hear that levels 1-3 are littered with the corpses of characters I figure the best way is to keep them fairly well built. Both as a party and as individual characters


We have
1 Human Druid
1 Water Genasi Cleric
2 undecideds (Bard, Wizard and Ranger have been popular choices.
1 Half Orc barbarian (Me :D)

The druid and Cleric are probably following spell builds, and the barb is looking at sword and board. I know that while fighting giants the shield wont be a lotta good because of size differences; but I needs a tank. Also thought about pushing towards goliath because of thematics; but Id need a pretty good reason to do so.

I think that one character is definitely going for the Ranger (UA of course) with dex and the other will then probably go Bard.

So like I said? Does this look like its heading in the direction I want? A solid balanced party that can handle things. Should I be sheparding one player towards a certain path? or worse making sure they dont take something useless?

All input welcome.

The party as described sounds pretty squishy. You have one front-line character (Barbarian) with the rest being fairly fluffy.

That being said, Storm King's Thunder has a large number of situations where bad decisions by the party will simply get them killed. You can't do much of anything to prevent this beyond just telling them that bad decisions are likely to get them killed and then trusting their judgment.


Do I understand this right? You plan on playing a character in a game you yourself are DMing? Because this is actually one of the cardinal sins of DMing and definitely not something you want to do. Do a search for "DMPC" for more information.

There's nothing wrong with the DM playing a character, and it's highly advisable to shore up a small group. There's a big distinction between bad use and good use, and some DMs being incapable of proper use doesn't make the idea itself bad.

Preferably that just means letting the players make decisions and only providing serious input if they ask for it, or do something as they direct.

[stormsouldevil]

Managed to stack my party up a bit; but still pretty squishy- now we have a Pally at least though.

Just updating this, starting a new topic on my Barb