Sorcerer/Marshal + Eldritch Knight

[artimus261]

So I was looking over the marshal for an unrelated character and kinda realized, they do in fact get martial weapons and have a decently nifty level 1 bonus that relies on their charisma. In essence a level 4 sorcerer/1 marshal could go into eldritch knight until level 15, cast as a level 13 sorcerer, have +12/+7/+2 bab and actually come away with a bonus based around their charisma modifier to 1 thing forever, like overcoming spell resistance for one example, or as an extra AC bonus against attacks of opportunity, decent options for a caster to have on all the freakin time

[Eldariel]

The sad part is missing out on BAB. If using fractional BAB it's less of an issue as the loss can later be recouped via. Sacred Exorcist or whatever but if not, it can be annoying. Well, unless you plan on Persisting Divine Power but then you shouldn't be taking non-caster levels. But yes, the Motivate-auras, particularly Motivate Str (combat maneuvers among others)/Dex (Initiative among others), are really strong and you shouldn't ignore their benefits.

[Zombimode]

So I was looking over the marshal for an unrelated character and kinda realized, they do in fact get martial weapons and have a decently nifty level 1 bonus that relies on their charisma. In essence a level 4 sorcerer/1 marshal could go into eldritch knight until level 15, cast as a level 13 sorcerer, have +12/+7/+2 bab and actually come away with a bonus based around their charisma modifier to 1 thing forever, like overcoming spell resistance for one example, or as an extra AC bonus against attacks of opportunity, decent options for a caster to have on all the freakin time

Try to convince your DM to upgrade marshalls to full bab (there is really no reason whatsoever for them to have medium bab being a clearly fightery flavored class).

[artimus261]

We actually use a homebrew fix for them that gives them a lot of new support abilities, keeps them active in combat without needing them to throw themselves at the bad guys.

also considering they get a +4 attack for an aura that applies to not only them but also to all other allies within 60ft, i don't think they really need the good bab, almost makes up for it and keeps them to their intended purpose, support.

[Zombimode]

All full-bab classes get class Features that enhance their combat abilities. Having abilities that make up the difference between medium and full bab puts the Marshall at the same place of competency as the Warrior - and that is not the Point of comparison you should strive for.

Full bab is more then to-hit Bonus. It gives more attacks and earlier, and is used for feat and PRC requirements.

Unless your class offers something really gamechanging, like Swordsage or Psychic Warrior, full bab is the baseline for a competent warrior-type class.

Of course, if that is not how you view the Marshall (despite it's description and visual representation), full bab appears much less important.

[Waker]

Of course, if that is not how you view the Marshall (despite it's description and visual representation), full bab appears much less important.

I'd think a better comparison for a Marshal would be a Bard rather than a Warrior-type class. While it's true they get armor and weapon proficiencies, the Auras are the big reason you take the class. That being said, it would be nice if the class did get something else, such as another ability or bonus combat feats.

[artimus261]

I'll go ahead and post the fix my dm came up with, bunch of handy stuff

Rallying Cry(Ex): Beginning at 3rd level the marshal can give out a rallying cry to help his allies spring into action. As a full-round action the marshal bestows the benefits of his cry to all allies within 90ft that can hear and understand him and has an intelligence score of 3 or higher. All affected allies have all fear effects removed from them along with the dazed, dazzled, fascinated, and stunned status. Additionally they gain a morale bonus on attack rolls and weapon damage rolls against a single enemy designated by the marshal equal to his Charisma modifier for 1d10 rounds. The marshal can perform this ability a number of times each day equal to 1 + his Wisdom modifier.

Warning Shout(Ex): The marshall gives a shout of warning to an ally, preparing her for an incoming assault. Beginning at 5th level the Marshal can cry out a warning to an ally within 60ft of him as an immediate action. The ally must be able to hear and understand the marshal and have an intelligence score of 3 or higher. The ally gains a bonus equal to the Marshal’s Wisdom modifier as a bonus to their AC or Reflex saves against the next attack or spell that is targeting them. The marshal must be aware of the attack to give an ally the benefit of warning shout. The marshal can do this a number of times during each encounter equal to his Wisdom modifier.

Combat Movement: The marshal gains Mobility as a bonus feat at 6th level.

Surmounting Splendor(Ex): As the marshal becomes more adept at spreading his presence in the heat of battle he is able to keep more and more auras active. Upon reaching 7th level the Marshal can begin keeping multiple minor auras active all at once. The Marshal is able to keep a number of minor auras active at all times equal to the bonus granted by his major aura(2 auras at 7th, 3 at 12th, and 4 at 20th). The number of minor auras the marshal has active cannot exceed his Intelligence modifier.

Improved Aid(Ex): The marshal has grown extremely adept at aiding his allies in combat. Starting at 8th level the bonus the marshal bestows with his Aid Another action now gains a bonus equal to his Intelligence modifier. Additionally at 13th level the marshal can use the aid another action as a swift action. He can of course still use it as a standard action as well.


Makes all of their mental stats actually count for something, but also ensures these abilities are handy without heavy mental stats

[Grod_The_Giant]

The Marshal is already a bit MAD (they probably want Str/Dex, Cha, and Con alike); there's no need to make 'em invest in other mental stats as well. My personal preference is to gestalt them with Fighters or Knights, but eh.

In any case, your original point stands: Marshal 1 is a fine alternative to the classic Fighter 1 dip for a Cha-based gish. At least if you're not sweating the BAB or potential bonus feat.

[artimus261]

Yeah I figured being able to use my primary casting stat for a bonus to get through SR or as an ac bonus against AoOs was worth a feat. Both are so useful for a caster in the end and being able to give it to others is just icing on the cake

[Fouredged Sword]

Any specific reason you are not tanking abjurant champion for the full bab and full casting?

[artimus261]

Well I'd have to spend a feat and have +5 Bab. But it's not as if I couldn't do that after, Sorc 4, Mrsh 1, Eldritch Knight 10, AbjChmp 5. If I wanted to. But I might go Archmage.

[Fouredged Sword]

See, the free quicken for some spells is really good for a sorcerer who cannot normally quicken spells.