Do you feel it when you succeed in a save against a Helm of Opposite Alignment

[Jon_Dahl]

We were talking about this the other day with my players. It says this in Spell Descriptions:


Succeeding on a Saving Throw

A creature that successfully saves against a spell that has no obvious physical effects feels a hostile force or a tingle, but cannot deduce the exact nature of the attack. Likewise, if a creature’s saving throw succeeds against a targeted spell you sense that the spell has failed. You do not sense when creatures succeed on saves against effect and area spells.

However, the helmet does not have any spell-like effects. It does not even have a supernatural effect. It's a magical item that brainwashes people.

What do you think?

[ryu]

The thing trying and failing to screw with your mind is felt for the same reason dominate spells are. You still get that feeling even if the spell is still silent invisible cast from another plane and you were busy fighting someone else. You likely don't know WHAT was trying to get you with such well hidden factors and a distracting opponent to pin blame on, but literally making a save IMMEDIATELY upon putting on a helmet? You bet your backside anyone not stupid is gonna correlate cursed item.

[Necroticplague]

We were talking about this the other day with my players. It says this in Spell Descriptions:



However, the helmet does not have any spell-like effects. It does not even have a supernatural effect. It's a magical item that brainwashes people.

What do you think?

my own view, unrelated to the rules: If it's effect is major enough to justify the save, it does something with enough force to justify giving a short roguelike-style message, regardless of success. For the helm, I'd probably give something along the lines of "you feel more sure of who you are" on a succesful save.

[Psyren]

We were talking about this the other day with my players. It says this in Spell Descriptions:



However, the helmet does not have any spell-like effects. It does not even have a supernatural effect. It's a magical item that brainwashes people.

What do you think?

While it's not strictly a spell, I would treat it exactly like that.

[lbuttitta]

Yes; according to the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#savingThrow):

A creature that successfully saves against a spell that has no obvious physical effects feels a hostile force or a tingle, but cannot deduce the exact nature of the attack. Likewise, if a creature’s saving throw succeeds against a targeted spell you sense that the spell has failed. You do not sense when creatures succeed on saves against effect and area spells.
I would assume that a one-time magic item effect would have the same property as that of a spell.

[Psyren]

I just checked Rules Compendium and they indeed broadened it beyond just spells. RC 112:



SUCCESS AND FAILURE
If the result of the saving throw roll equals or exceeds the
save’s DC, the saving throw succeeds. The DC for a save is
determined by the attack. A creature that successfully saves
against an effect that has no obvious physical repercussions
feels a hostile force or a tingle, but can’t deduce the exact
nature of the attack. Likewise, if a creature’s saving throw
succeeds against a targeted effect, the effect’s creator senses
that the effect has failed. A caster can’t sense when creatures
succeed on saves against effect spells or area spells, or against
similar abilities.