Which type of Fighter makes the best archer?

[Dudewithknives]

Here is the deal.

I am designing a backup character in case my current one dies in the campaign I am in.

We are light on ranged damage, like very light.

I want to make a Fighter archer but what subclass is the issue.

All UA is open as well as most 3rd party or DM's Guild things as long as i get approval first.

Also we get a free feat at 1st level so that could make a big difference.

The rest of the party is a Moon Druid, a Blades Bard, and a Death Cleric built to melee.

SO here are the ideas I came up with:

1. Fighter - Samurai subclass with a longbow and take the sharpshooter feat.
The idea of 3 times per short rest to give every shot for 2 rounds advantage, ignore cover, and get resistance to BPS for those 2 rounds is great.
This would be more a point blank archer, so taking Close Quarters Shooter would be better than archery.

2. Fighter - Sharpshooter subclass with a longbow and take any feat that gives +1 Dex so I can start with an 18.
Slightly better damage, but gets redundant if I ever take the sharpshooter feat. Honestly I just see Samurai as just plain better.

3. There have been multiple threads about Battlemaster or Eldritch Knight archers, so that is possible.

4. Some combination I have never seen or some 3rd party of DM's Guild archery based fighter subclass.

Any opinions or ideas?

[N810]

A couple of levels in ranger might help... for colossus slayer and hunters mark.
or some levels for rogue assassin... for sneak attack and auto crits on a surprise round.

[SMac8988]

I'm partial to battle master archers. Most of your manuvers can be used at range, and being able to shot a sword out of someone hand at 600 ft, while your bard is trying to talk with them is intimidating as ****.

I would almost suggest taken a few levels of rogue with it for the damage bump, the assassinate ability, and the increased ability to stealth for better chances at the shots.

[Specter]

None of them are bad, really.

- Battlemaster allows you to exert control over the battlefield, albeit not every turn.
- Champion will give you more crits. If you have a reliable source of advantage (such as Faerie Fire), it will be good damage.
- Eldritch Knight makes you more reactively defensive with Shield and Absorb Elements. Some other goodies like Misty Step and Find Familiar also come in handy.
- Samurai is very nice when coupled with Sharpshooter for that advantage, and gives you free Wisdom saves.

[cotofpoffee]

You can make Battlemaster or Eldritch Knight archers, but the abilities of these subclasses tend to be a little more melee orientated.

You can try the Arcane Archer. It gives you many cool magic shot options. It's also been revised once already so it's more polished than the rest of UA content. From a glance the power looks pretty good and the theme is unique.

It may also be good to consider a few levels of Ranger. Rangers are the specialized ranged class. Two levels will give you Hunter's Mark. Three levels can give you the first Hunter subclass ability. Horde Breaker or Colossus Slayer are pretty good ranged abilities.

[Arcangel4774]

What level are you and what level do you expect to get too?

I'd personally suggest arcane archer with the sharpshooter feat. But multiclassing may be in order depending on levels

[solidork]

The fighter that I'm most interested in playing personally is the Scout. I like having a lot of skills and you get a very good defensive maneuver as well as one of the better offensive ones (especially with sharpshooter). The original Ranger's Natural Explorer feature isn't that exciting, but if your DM lets you get the revised version's it is pretty amazing.

[Beastrolami]

Samurai is a bit more self sufficient. And better at earlier levels. But, Sharpshooter is just plain broken at max level. And does more damage than a samurai. If you want to do range, and ONLY range. The biggest benefit of a samurai is the advantage. So... if no one in the party can/will give you advantage, go samurai. if you can get advantage from a party member, go sharpshooter, and clean up the battlefield.

[Trum4n1208]

I admit to being partial to the ranged Battlemaster, but that's just me. I haven't messed with it much, but the new Arcane Archer looks decent, and should be fun, though I wish you got more uses of the Arcane Shot. Perhaps 2 + INT modifier?

[Dudewithknives]

What level are you and what level do you expect to get too?

I'd personally suggest arcane archer with the sharpshooter feat. But multiclassing may be in order depending on levels



Currently we are level 3 but fully expect to get to at least 15 maybe even 18.

I was very, very, unimpressed with arcane archer. Only 2 uses of their main feature per short rest is just crazy, and the idea that they get so many more choices later, but still only ever 2 at one time is bad design.
Curving Shot is kind of nice.

Also I have a major problem with the idea that the Arcane Archer does not cast spells at all. I have played an AA at least 5 times, the idea that they do not cast spells means they are not Arcane Archers at all they are Arrow Alchemists if you want to keep the same initials.

Due to campaign reasons, no Ranger, but multi class is fine otherwise.

I am thinking either a Goblin or a High Elf.

[cotofpoffee]

Currently we are level 3 but fully expect to get to at least 15 maybe even 18.

I was very, very, unimpressed with arcane archer. Only 2 uses of their main feature per short rest is just crazy, and the idea that they get so many more choices later, but still only ever 2 at one time is bad design.
Curving Shot is kind of nice.

Also I have a major problem with the idea that the Arcane Archer does not cast spells at all. I have played an AA at least 5 times, the idea that they do not cast spells means they are not Arcane Archers at all they are Arrow Alchemists if you want to keep the same initials.

Due to campaign reasons, no Ranger, but multi class is fine otherwise.

I am thinking either a Goblin or a High Elf.
The Arcane Archer's shots are pretty much all stronger than a Battlemaster's maneuvers so it's pretty fair that they get less shots per rest. Plus they're ranged which is already a bonus. If they had more shots the Battlemaster would become worthless.

I also like that they managed to make the Arcane Archer feel magical without needing spells. Its a breath of fresh air from everything magical needing spell slots. The Ranger already serves as the class that can shoot magical effects through their ranged attacks anyways.

Regardless, maybe a Warlock could work? They serve as mainly a ranged attacker with magic to back them up. With UA you can grab Moon Bow and make ranged smites through your bow. It's pretty nifty.

[Mortis_Elrod]

Might you try this http://mfov.magehandpress.com/2016/11/marksman.html ?

If not Battlemaster is really good, but this all depends on the type of archer you want to go for. Skirmishing? long range sniping? Party tricks archer? .

[Specter]

You can make Battlemaster or Eldritch Knight archers, but the abilities of these subclasses tend to be a little more melee orientated.

With all due respect I strongly disagree. I can't think of any good maneuver that is melee-only except for Riposte, and spells are spells regardless of where you are in the field.

[Arcangel4774]

Arcane archer level 3 is nice with the magic +1 arrows. But as a martial archetype it's hardly worth going past 7.

Fey bladelock 3 gets a powerful smite at range, but suffers like the arcane archer at 2 per short rest (as it requires spell slots). Issue here is you're throwing all your Warlock eggs in the archery basket. You have to invest one feat for the weapon, one for extra attack if you want it, one for making that weapon +x at the relevant levels, one to add cha to attacks when it comes up.... however this can work nicely if you have spell slots to feed your smites. From a sorcer or bard perhaps.

Kensai 3 gets a nice mini hex/hunters mark at the cost of a bonus action each round it's used. But you can't use the monk stun at range.

The mystics nomadic arrow has some some nice bonuses, the action free attack at the beginning of your turn is nice but requires concentration and 5 on mystic. Also really isn't a class that is focused on archery in the first place.

Rogue snipers are nice if you get reliable sneak attacks, which with the melee goon squad you're running with, shouldn't be hard. But with sneak attack scaling you aren't going to want to multiclass much.

Final note is the artificer with its gun that unfortunately requires a bonus action to use and scales like a rogue, meaning you're going to want to be single class (except for a dip for fighting style likely). The robo pet bird makes this class fun for flying above the fight and shooting enemies, however.

Other people have more to say on EK and BM archers than I do, so I'll defer to them.

Thoughts on comboing what i mentioned:
Arcane archer 5 mystic 5 get 3 attacks per round a level early and has the bonus of sharing dex/int.
Wu Jen mystic 6 could feed spell slots to a Warlock if you don't want to get a caster that does it for you. But it's only efficient vs the nomadic arrow ability for 2nd, 4th (which you can't do until a higher level) and 5th level slots. You can use both at the same time though.

[cotofpoffee]

With all due respect I strongly disagree. I can't think of any good maneuver that is melee-only except for Riposte, and spells are spells regardless of where you are in the field.
Fair enough. I remember taking a look at it in the past and seeing that there wasn't many. I might have been looking at exclusively dex based maneuvers, rather than ranged maneuvers.

However, i must point out that your list is incorrect. Trip Attack and Feinting Attack are essentially melee only. While they aren't explicitly stated to be melee only, Feinting Attack requires you to be within 5 ft. Trip Attack hurts you because you have disadvantage on enemies that are prone. Lunging Attack and Sweeping Attack are also explicitly melee only, but they suck anyways. Regardless, that's still a number of maneuvers that won't work with ranged or work poorly with ranged. There are no ranged exclusive maneuvers. That's why I said it's a little more focused on melee.

The reason why I say Eldritch Knight is more melee focused is that the biggest advantage they get is their ability to layer on protection spells ontop of their heavy armor. When people talk about what's good about the Eldritch Knight its this. This extra defense benefits melee Fighter so much more than ranged Fighters. When you take an ranged Eldritch Knight, you really have to compare it to a Ranger, since it's another partial caster martial. In that case I don't see much reason to take a ranged Eldritch Knight. Rangers can do more damage with Hunter's Mark unless the Fighter Action Surges, which is only 1/rest. The Eldritch Knight gets good AoE attacks but the Ranger is the martial class that does very well against hordes. No one questions that fact about the Ranger, even people who think they're weak.

[Specter]

Fair enough. I remember taking a look at it in the past and seeing that there wasn't many. I might have been looking at exclusively dex based maneuvers, rather than ranged maneuvers.

However, i must point out that your list is incorrect. Trip Attack, Lunging Attack, and Feinting Attack are essentially melee only. While they aren't explicitly stated to be melee only, Lunging Attack's buff is meaningless for ranged Fighter. Feinting Attack requires you to be within 5 ft. Trip Attack hurts you because you have disadvantage on enemies that are prone. Though I do admit i made a mistake earlier.

The reason why I say Eldritch Knight is more melee focused is that the biggest advantage they get is their ability to layer on protection spells ontop of their heavy armor. This benefits melee Fighter so much more than ranged Fighters. When you take an ranged Eldritch Knight, you really have to compare it to a Ranger, since it's another partial caster martial. In that case I don't see much reason to take a ranged Eldritch Knight. Rangers can do more damage with Hunter's Mark unless the Fighter Action Surges, which is only 1/rest. The Eldritch Knight gets good AoE attacks but the Ranger is the martial class that does very well against hordes. No one questions that fact about the Ranger, even people who think they're weak.

Yep, that's why I said the 'good' maneuvers. The only maneuvers which rely on melee attacks are Lunging Attack (who cares), Riposte (good) and Sweeping Attack (good riddance). So you're only really missing out on Riposte, as stated. You can Trip as your last attack to help your buddies. And some other irrelevant maneuvers like Maneuvering Attack and Pushing Attack are actually decent at the hands of an archer.

As for Eldritch Knight vs. Ranger, I don't think that's a necessary debate. But if we were to compare both of them, Ranger deals more damage, while EK takes less damage. And after all's said and done, Fighters get 2 ASI's more than Rangers, so there's that.

[cotofpoffee]

Yep, that's why I said the 'good' maneuvers. The only maneuvers which rely on melee attacks are Lunging Attack (who cares), Riposte (good) and Sweeping Attack (good riddance). So you're only really missing out on Riposte, as stated. You can Trip as your last attack to help your buddies. And some other irrelevant maneuvers like Maneuvering Attack and Pushing Attack are actually decent at the hands of an archer.

As for Eldritch Knight vs. Ranger, I don't think that's a necessary debate. But if we were to compare both of them, Ranger deals more damage, while EK takes less damage. And after all's said and done, Fighters get 2 ASI's more than Rangers, so there's that.
You can use Trip on your last attack, yes, but that makes it so much less effective. Notice how you have to limit yourself in order to use it. You may as well not use it then. Regardless, there are still maneuvers that you can't use as a ranged Battlemaster. There are no maneuvers a melee Battlemaster can't use. That's being focused towards melee. Also Riposte is really powerful, so not being able to use it hurts, even if it is the only good maneuver a ranged Battlemaster can't use.

Taking less damage as a ranged class is much less important. Their protection is distance. Regardless, it's debatable that a ranged Eldritch Knight takes less damage than a Ranger. The Ranger gets a lot of sweet defensive buffs in their Hunter subclass. A melee Eldritch Knight most definitely gets more milage out of the subclass.

[Khrysaes]

With UA being allowed, you may consider Bard 10/Fey Bladelock 3/??? Get moonbow, and swift quiver as the bard magical secret. You also can use bard spells and abilities for support, or the slots to fuel the smite with moon bow.

I would consider either 4 warlock/16 bard, getting you higher level slots, or perhaps a few fighter levels for the action surge and fighting style. If you went eldritch knight, and 4 fighter/4 warlock/12 bard, you could still get the 7th level spell slot. Not to mention a few more cantrips and spells. Arcane archer or samurai has good fighter level 3 abilities too. Too bad you cant go ranger, getting the fighting style, hunter's mark, revised ranger's natural explorer, and an archetype like deepstalker or hunter.

Rogue Arcane trickster would be good too, a couple sneak attack dice, cunning action, more expertise, and similar spells as the 4 fighter.

[Mortis_Elrod]

I would do Arcane Archer 12/Kensei 8

you get some really nice stuff from both.

[Specter]

You can use Trip on your last attack, yes, but that makes it so much less effective. Notice how you have to limit yourself in order to use it. You may as well not use it then. Regardless, there are still maneuvers that you can't use as a ranged Battlemaster. There are no maneuvers a melee Battlemaster can't use. That's being focused towards melee. Also Riposte is really powerful, so not being able to use it hurts, even if it is the only good maneuver a ranged Battlemaster can't use.

Taking less damage as a ranged class is much less important. Their protection is distance. Regardless, it's debatable that a ranged Eldritch Knight takes less damage than a Ranger. The Ranger gets a lot of sweet defensive buffs in their Hunter subclass. A melee Eldritch Knight most definitely gets more milage out of the subclass.

Tell you what, I won't trip, then. Or riposte (even though by RAW you could just kick the guy). The rest is just the same.
There are 3 maneuvers out of 16 that are melee-only. 2 of those are irrelevant for optimization. You'll learn 7 maneuvers at most. Forgive me if I don't see this as a 'melee-focused' subclass.

EKs are optimal with sword-and-board, but between a great weapon EK and an archer EK my money's on the archer.

EK taking less damage that a Ranger in general is not debatable, unless you as a Ranger multiclass as a Wizard/Sorcerer to grab Shield.
When you talk about 'defensive buffs', I'll assume Escape the Horde and Evasion, which are the archer's go-to choices. Escape the Horde gives you disadvantage on opportunity attacks, nice. You know what else does that, except for all attacks? Blur, which you can get at 8th level. Evasion is nice, but EKs also have Absorb Elements which cuts elemental damage in half (regardless of whether it's a DEX save or not), so it's not that vital. And in any case, a Fighter can also grab Tough as one of his 2 bonus feats and go to town. Hooray.

Also, I'm not crapping on Rangers, just stating how Fighters will definitely stay alive longer than them.


With UA being allowed, you may consider Bard 10/Fey Bladelock 3/??? Get moonbow, and swift quiver as the bard magical secret. You also can use bard spells and abilities for support, or the slots to fuel the smite with moon bow.

I would consider either 4 warlock/16 bard, getting you higher level slots, or perhaps a few fighter levels for the action surge and fighting style. If you went eldritch knight, and 4 fighter/4 warlock/12 bard, you could still get the 7th level spell slot. Not to mention a few more cantrips and spells. Arcane archer or samurai has good fighter level 3 abilities too. Too bad you cant go ranger, getting the fighting style, hunter's mark, revised ranger's natural explorer, and an archetype like deepstalker or hunter.

Rogue Arcane trickster would be good too, a couple sneak attack dice, cunning action, more expertise, and similar spells as the 4 fighter.

This works, but it takes way too long to come online. To get extra attack, you would need 6 levels in Bard, and then you want more levels to get the 10th-level Magical Secrets (Swift Quiver), and THEN you take the warlock levels. And you still don't have the archery fighting style, which hurts. If you want something like this, go Fighter 5/Lore Bard X, it gives you much nicer stuff earlier on (except for the bow smiting).

[pdegan2814]

I've played an archer Battlemaster, and it was fun. Menacing Attack was probably my most-used maneuver, imposing disadvantage on an enemy AND keeping it from closing ranks was awfully effective. I get the arguments that Trip Attack is of limited use as an archer, but that depends on your party makeup and the initiative order. Plus, you get Precision Attack to turn misses into hits, which is a surefire way to increase your damage output. :smallsmile: The revised Arcane Archer looks like fun, keep in mind that if you have a magic bow then the +1 bonus to your arrows will stack with the bow's bonus(again, increasing your to-hit chance will do wonders for your DPR). Champion isn't a terrible choice if you can get advantage on your shots at least semi-regularly. When I played my archer I took some Rogue(Assassin) levels too(ended that campaign at Fighter8/Rogue5). I had both Sharpshooter and Alert, so I would frequently be going before the enemies, burning my Action Surge for 4 shots at advantage w/ Sharpshooter. Add in the Sneak Attack damage(my party's tank quickly learned to make sure I could get SA pretty much every round) and I was probably the highest damage dealer of the group, both peak and average.

[Khrysaes]

I was thinking about it, and with UA allowed, you could make an elf or half elf with Elven Accuracy feat. With that melee line up of teammates, you would readily get Advantage. If you go Champion for improved crit, and warlock/moonbow for the ranged smites, this takes 6 levels, .. 8(or 12) fighter for the extra ASI, attacks and increased saves, and either the rest rogue for the sneak attacks, or warlock/some other spell caster for the spell slots to fuel smite, burn those smites on a crit, which you have a high chance of netting. 12 Fighter 8 Rogue is good, since you get all the defensive abilities of a rogue, decent sneak attack dice too. with 12 fighter you would have 6 asi by 20.

15 or 16 fighter/4 warlock would net you 2 slots to fuel smites, and a pretty high crit chance with advantage. or hex. hex would be useful too. and you could get the Quasit familiar for a maybe Magic Resistance. at the very least an invisible scout.

The slot would be 4d8 for the smite, where as hex is 1d8 per hit, and transfers, and you get 3+ attacks, so hex is probably better than smite.

[DragonSorcererX]

What type of Fighter makes the best archer? Any of them that isn't a Ranger! :smalltongue:

[cotofpoffee]

Tell you what, I won't trip, then. Or riposte (even though by RAW you could just kick the guy). The rest is just the same.
There are 3 maneuvers out of 16 that are melee-only. 2 of those are irrelevant for optimization. You'll learn 7 maneuvers at most. Forgive me if I don't see this as a 'melee-focused' subclass.

EKs are optimal with sword-and-board, but between a great weapon EK and an archer EK my money's on the archer.

EK taking less damage that a Ranger in general is not debatable, unless you as a Ranger multiclass as a Wizard/Sorcerer to grab Shield.
When you talk about 'defensive buffs', I'll assume Escape the Horde and Evasion, which are the archer's go-to choices. Escape the Horde gives you disadvantage on opportunity attacks, nice. You know what else does that, except for all attacks? Blur, which you can get at 8th level. Evasion is nice, but EKs also have Absorb Elements which cuts elemental damage in half (regardless of whether it's a DEX save or not), so it's not that vital. And in any case, a Fighter can also grab Tough as one of his 2 bonus feats and go to town. Hooray.

Also, I'm not crapping on Rangers, just stating how Fighters will definitely stay alive longer than them.

.
Not being able to use several maneuvers as ranged does, in fact, mean it's melee focused. It has more features for melee. Especially when the ones you mention are some of the more poweful maneuvers. That is not debatable. Melee has more to work with. That doesn't prevent the Battlemaster from being an effective ranged option. You will find that nowhere did i say they were not an effective ranged option. But melee having more is melee having more.

I'm not even sure why you're so absolutely adamant that having great defense is of vital importance to a ranged character. As a failsafe perhaps it's good. But in normal play ranged characters get much less focus on damage. Their purpose is to do damage from afar and be able to target anything. That's what being at ranged is for, not defense. I'll concede the point about Rangers having debatable defense, because it's not exactly of the utmost importance as a ranged character. Again, melee will get more mileage out of the Eldritch Knights superior defence. Yeah sure ranged can benefit but this is a discussion about optimization. Not playing a class to it's strengths is a waste in terms of this discussion.

Also, quit with the mocking tone. You'll notice that I'm not doing it, only debating points. I won't respond further if you continue acting like that.

[Mortis_Elrod]

What type of Fighter makes the best archer? Any of them that isn't a Ranger! :smalltongue:

one day this won't be true. THEN YOU'LL SEE! YOU'LL ALL SEE

[jaappleton]

Whatever one you decide, you said anything is pretty much available, right?

Look into two levels of Druid. Specifically Circle of the Shepard from Unearthed Arcana. You get access to Faerie Fire, always a good spell, and access to the lv2 Hawk feature of Circle of Shepard: No saving throw, just Advantage on all ranged attack rolls for 1 minute, usable once every short rest. I believe its a bonus action to activate.

So activate it, two attacks at lv5 with Advantage (Helloooo, Sharpshooter!), Action Surge for another two.

[Specter]

Not being able to use several maneuvers as ranged does, in fact, mean it's melee focused. It has more features for melee. Especially when the ones you mention are some of the more poweful maneuvers. That is not debatable. Melee has more to work with. That doesn't prevent the Battlemaster from being an effective ranged option. You will find that nowhere did i say they were not an effective ranged option. But melee having more is melee having more.

I'm not even sure why you're so absolutely adamant that having great defense is of vital importance to a ranged character. As a failsafe perhaps it's good. But in normal play ranged characters get much less focus on damage. Their purpose is to do damage from afar and be able to target anything. That's what being at ranged is for, not defense. I'll concede the point about Rangers having debatable defense, because it's not exactly of the utmost importance as a ranged character. Again, melee will get more mileage out of the Eldritch Knights superior defence. Yeah sure ranged can benefit but this is a discussion about optimization. Not playing a class to it's strengths is a waste in terms of this discussion.

Also, quit with the mocking tone. You'll notice that I'm not doing it, only debating points. I won't respond further if you continue acting like that.

There's no mocking tone here. What's mocking, 'hooray'? Loosen up, this isn't real life or business hours.

Okay, let's go with this: some maneuvers are melee-only, but that doesn't make ranged BMs any less effective. You'll find it hard to disagree with that one.

Based on what you've stated, it seems you think the best Fighter archer is a Champion, which has been proven not to be (by the game's math), not in terms of damage and defensively not until higher levels (18+).

And now I'm not even sure we play the same kind of games. Your archers/mages don't get attacked? At the beginning of combat, there's a somewhat tight formation, so anything goes. And other archers/mages can still target you. And enemies can come from behind, making you the prime target. And sometimes they come from all sides. And... you get the picture. Higher defense also means more freedom to do whatever you want. With 22 AC and being attacked with disadvantage, you can be sure I won't fear any opportunity attacks.

I understand that, for instance, a shielded Eldritch Knight with War Caster will be, in general, more effective than an archer Eldritch Knight at defense. But saying an EK archer is not an optimized archer is simply inverting the discussion category. If you find the EK archer unoptimized, mention other classes/archetypes that can bring significantly more to the table (Ranger isn't one of those, as I've stated above).

[cotofpoffee]

There's no mocking tone here. What's mocking, 'hooray'? Loosen up, this isn't real life or business hours.
Thank you for proving my point. We're done here.

[DragonSorcererX]

one day this won't be true. THEN YOU'LL SEE! YOU'LL ALL SEE

Arcane Archer > Ranger!

Because fantasy magical pseudosciense > hippie weed magic!

[Crusher]

I have no useful suggestions on fighter type, but I strongly recommend multi-classing into War Cleric. The occasional extra shot on bonus action is nice, but the using Channel Divinity for bonus aim is great fun.

At level 3 (level 1 fighter/level 2 cleric, Archery fighting style), you can self-cast Bless and manage a +19-20 to hit once/long rest. Makes for good RPing fun.

"I am the best archer in all the lands, King!" "Prove it, outlander!" Then promptly shoot a worm out of a flying sparrow's mouth 600' away (you went vHuman and took Sharpshooter, right?) BLINDFOLDED. Because its (hypothetically) AC 15 with 3/4 cover, giving it AC 20. Which you hit on a 2 or better, so disadvantage isn't a problem.

[Specter]

Thank you for proving my point. We're done here.

Yeah, it's easy to back away pretendind to be hurt when all your premises are weak. Could you at least state that rangers are no better thsn EKs? And that nobody cares if some maneuvers are melee-oriented? That would really make my day. #thisismocking


I have no useful suggestions on fighter type, but I strongly recommend multi-classing into War Cleric. The occasional extra shot on bonus action is nice, but the using Channel Divinity for bonus aim is great fun.

At level 3 (level 1 fighter/level 2 cleric, Archery fighting style), you can self-cast Bless and manage a +19-20 to hit once/long rest. Makes for good RPing fun.

"I am the best archer in all the lands, King!" "Prove it, outlander!" Then promptly shoot a worm out of a flying sparrow's mouth 600' away (you went vHuman and took Sharpshooter, right?) BLINDFOLDED. Because its (hypothetically) AC 15 with 3/4 cover, giving it AC 20. Which you hit on a 2 or better, so disadvantage isn't a problem.

Very nice. And other than that, you can also have Divine Favor for battles, which unlike Hex/Hunter's, can affect all enemies.

[djreynolds]

1. Champion archers would have to have a reliable source of advantage... such as hiding or find familiar via magic initiate, to land lots of crits to make it worth.

2. Scout, which I have played, is great. You have skills and precision.

3. But battlemaster is the best, the maneuvers will aid your team when you need it. Trip, disarm, menacing, and precision are huge.

IMO, grab magic initiate and HEX or find familiar. This is for a non-multiclass fighter

[BoxANT]

Battlemaster
Human (var.)
Criminal (gives you stealth, deception and thieves' tools)
Dex 16, Con 14, Wis 14
Skills: Deception, Stealth, Athletics, Perception, Insight
Fighting Style (Archery)
Student of War (Smiths or Tinkers depending)

If you get a bonus feat even better:
1) Crossbow Expert (2 hand crossbows)
1) Sharpshooter
4) +2 Dex
6) +2 Dex

Maneuvers: Precision Attack, Parry, Evasive Footwork (helps you hit, and create distance)

At level 6 you'll have a +10 to hit (+5 with sharpshooter) and will have 3 hand crossbow attack that do about 18.5 each (55.5 total).

[DeAnno]

Battlemaster, Monster Hunter, or Scout are what you want, since Precision Attack clones combine unbelievably with Sharpshooter and are a great way to get ranged damage. In fact, if you are damage focused, you will be spamming precision attack to fix Sharpshooter misses so often that you won't have a lot of dice for other maneuvers, which is why you might be attracted to MH or Scout for their extra bonuses and superior defensive maneuvers.

Revised Ranger Deep Stalker 3 is also a very tempting dip, as it gives you a number of bonuses on the first turn of combat which synergize very well with Action Surge.

[solidork]

If you get a bonus feat even better:
1) Crossbow Expert (2 hand crossbows)


You can actually make a normal attack with a hand crossbow and then a bonus attack with that same crossbow if you have crossbow expert. Also, using two hand crossbows doesn't even work because you need a free hand to reload, iirc.

Do the first and third benefits of Crossbow Expert turn a hand crossbow into a semiautomatic weapon? The short answer is no.

The first benefit of the feat lets you ignore the loading property (PH, 147) of the hand crossbow if you’re proficient with that weapon. The upshot is that you can fire it more than once if you have a feature like Extra Attack. You’re still limited, however, by the fact that the weapon has the ammunition property (PH, 146). The latter property requires you to have a bolt to fire from the hand crossbow, and the hand crossbow isn’t going to load itself (unless it’s magical or a gnomish invention). You need to load each bolt into the weapon, and doing so requires a hand.

To dig deeper into this point, take a look at the following sentence in the definition of the ammunition property: “Drawing the ammunition from a quiver, case, or other container is part of the attack.” The sentence tells us two important things. First, you’re assumed to be drawing—that is, extracting with your hand—the ammunition from a container. Second, the act of drawing the ammunition is included in the attack and therefore doesn’t require its own action and doesn’t use up your free interaction with an object on your turn.

What does that all mean for a hand crossbow? It means Crossbow Expert makes it possible to fire a hand crossbow more than once with a feature like Extra Attack, provided that you have enough ammunition and you have a hand free to load it for each shot.

Does Crossbow Expert let you fire a hand crossbow and then fire it again as a bonus action? It does! Take a look at the feat’s third benefit. It says you can attack with a hand crossbow as a bonus action when you use the Attack action to attack with a one-handed weapon. A hand crossbow is a one-handed weapon, so it can, indeed, be used for both attacks, assuming you have a hand free to load the hand crossbow between the two attacks.

http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/sageadvice_feats/

[MeeposFire]

You can actually make a normal attack with a hand crossbow and then a bonus attack with that same crossbow if you have crossbow expert. Also, using two hand crossbows doesn't even work because you need a free hand to reload, iirc.

Do the first and third benefits of Crossbow Expert turn a hand crossbow into a semiautomatic weapon? The short answer is no.

The first benefit of the feat lets you ignore the loading property (PH, 147) of the hand crossbow if you’re proficient with that weapon. The upshot is that you can fire it more than once if you have a feature like Extra Attack. You’re still limited, however, by the fact that the weapon has the ammunition property (PH, 146). The latter property requires you to have a bolt to fire from the hand crossbow, and the hand crossbow isn’t going to load itself (unless it’s magical or a gnomish invention). You need to load each bolt into the weapon, and doing so requires a hand.

To dig deeper into this point, take a look at the following sentence in the definition of the ammunition property: “Drawing the ammunition from a quiver, case, or other container is part of the attack.” The sentence tells us two important things. First, you’re assumed to be drawing—that is, extracting with your hand—the ammunition from a container. Second, the act of drawing the ammunition is included in the attack and therefore doesn’t require its own action and doesn’t use up your free interaction with an object on your turn.

What does that all mean for a hand crossbow? It means Crossbow Expert makes it possible to fire a hand crossbow more than once with a feature like Extra Attack, provided that you have enough ammunition and you have a hand free to load it for each shot.

Does Crossbow Expert let you fire a hand crossbow and then fire it again as a bonus action? It does! Take a look at the feat’s third benefit. It says you can attack with a hand crossbow as a bonus action when you use the Attack action to attack with a one-handed weapon. A hand crossbow is a one-handed weapon, so it can, indeed, be used for both attacks, assuming you have a hand free to load the hand crossbow between the two attacks.

http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/sageadvice_feats/

Well two hand crossbows work but only just once unless you can get around the reloading problem. This is why in the end I allow them just to use two as it offers no benefit and is technical a worse option (no free hand to do whatever you need to do with it) so if it is cooler I allow it but yes technically the first salvo 2 hand crossbows cease to work as an idea.

[Khrysaes]

Okay,

I currently have a level 3 Battlemaster Fighter that uses a longbow.

My DM allows some UA, not tunnel fighter without changes, but most UA.

I was planning on at level 6, taking 2 levels of revised ranger(for 6 and 7), picking up the second fighting style(in this case archery to add to close quarters shooter that I started with), natural fighting, favored enemy, and as the DM has allowed it, the spell-less variant's superiority dice and 2 maneuvers, which beats out battle master 7 for the same level.

I have been considering altering being a battle master for Monster Hunter.

Reasons:

It gets 4 maneuvers, instead of 3.

One of them is precision
One of them does damage and imposes disadvantage on concentration,
One is good defensively,
and one is good for the skills insight and perception.

I also get 2 skills, 1 language, detect magic as a ritual, and a 1/long rest protection from good and evil.

Bonus at level 7 for 2 dice per attack, and synergy with favored enemy.

My current battle master maneuvers are Precise attack, trip, and disarm.

To keep the same maneuvers, I would give up my two from ranger for them, but I net a total of 6 maneuvers instead of 5.

After Precise attack, what are the best maneuvers, should I give up the nice defensive and skill one, for the versatility of staying with battle-master? I seem to get more from monster hunter, but...

I think I had planned for 5 fighter and 2 ranger, then at levels 19 and 20 take my last 2 levels(7 and 8) of fighter. so two of these likely wouldn't have been used much at all.

Trip,
Disarm,
Menacing,
Distracting
Parry
Precision.
Maneuvering??

if you had to pick 2 of them? I had also considered asking the DM if I could get the defensive scout one and monster hunter ones as normal maneuvers instead of parry and maneuvering.

Party consists of:
Me: Ranged Fighter.
Open palm Monk
Devotion paladin
Life Cleric, I think? Cleric for sure..
Moon Druid
Lore Wizard.

[Grondsmash]

For fighter the best non-magic is Monster Hunter, the best magic is Arcane Archer, both offer the Archery fighting style for +2 attack. MH has the best things to spend Sup. Dice on, and although Arcane Archer has some cool shots but curving arrow is awesome, so a bonus action turns a miss into a hit, you can use every round if needs be (no limit)

I have found the NEW best Magic user is Warlock, pact of the blade. At 3rd you get Improved Pact and have a +1 att/dam weapon, can have it poof into your hand at any time. You can enhance the bow (and subsequently the arrows) with magic. Being able to cast seeing 120' in the dark to shoot your enemies before they see you then cast darkness which blinds them and you can still see them clearly to shoot them (and don't let the DM cheat and allow the baddies to "know" the right way to run out of your darkness when they have now idea). Life drinker for Cha dam on top of Dex damage, and a bunch of other invocations that a creative person can make a serious advantage of.
And before anyone has an aneurysm, Improved specifically states that bows can be your blades, and you can cast the normal spells on them as if they were a blade, so Booming blade and green flame blade are perfectly acceptable spells for them by RAW.

You get an extra attack if you keep going in Warlock, or lots more attacks if you keep going in Fighter, and all three Warlock, Arcane Archer & Monster Hunter all regain their abilities after a short rest.

Rogue is a great level 1 starting dip for the skills, Expertise and the situational SA bonus, but further levels are a trap, as it only scales with Rogue and getting the SA is only situational. If you feel the need at best go 3 levels and choose scout for the mobility bonus, situational SA is now 2d6.

If you are going few warlock and lots of fighter then consider Magic Initiate (Booming, Green Flame Blade & Find Familiar) as they will scale with character gaining the bonus damage later on, and a Familiar scout is always a useful thing in this game. And Sharpshooter is also a must.

Other feats to look at are Elven Accuracy or war caster. if you go war caster and don't find a familiar interesting, then take eldritch blast (the blade spells are in both wizard and Warlock). By RAW it will mean your eldritch blast will scale by character not class, so you can multiple eldritch blast on AoO and not waste arrows/spells/Superiority Die/Arcane shots, but still hurt the bastard!

So before you reach 10th level you can shoot up to 2 +1 (or +2) magical arrows, with extra bonuses (or bonus Sup. die) to hit, Hex on the target for extra damage and disadvantage to one save and possible extra Cha damage to target and others I choose within 5' of it) spells on them for either cool effects (Arcane Shots or weapon enhancement spells) and/or lots more dice for damage (up to 2 Sup. dice), double ability damage (Dex & Cha), if you get the right situation +1d6 SA damage, and take the -5 att +10 damage, because if you roll REALLY crappy and miss, you can just curve it into the bad guy beside the one you were aiming at and odds are you roll better and hit and deliver all this cool damage.

[MrWesson22]

This thread is a year old.

[Garresh]

Not being able to use several maneuvers as ranged does, in fact, mean it's melee focused. It has more features for melee. Especially when the ones you mention are some of the more poweful maneuvers. That is not debatable. Melee has more to work with. That doesn't prevent the Battlemaster from being an effective ranged option. You will find that nowhere did i say they were not an effective ranged option. But melee having more is melee having more.

I'm not even sure why you're so absolutely adamant that having great defense is of vital importance to a ranged character. As a failsafe perhaps it's good. But in normal play ranged characters get much less focus on damage. Their purpose is to do damage from afar and be able to target anything. That's what being at ranged is for, not defense. I'll concede the point about Rangers having debatable defense, because it's not exactly of the utmost importance as a ranged character. Again, melee will get more mileage out of the Eldritch Knights superior defence. Yeah sure ranged can benefit but this is a discussion about optimization. Not playing a class to it's strengths is a waste in terms of this discussion.

Also, quit with the mocking tone. You'll notice that I'm not doing it, only debating points. I won't respond further if you continue acting like that.

Does that mean that wizard is melee because booming blade is the best scaling cantrip? Plus they get absorb elements which is fantastic in melee.

You heard it here folks, wizard is a melee class.

[Garresh]

This thread is a year old.

Shhh. This thread is funny.