Shadow pouncer Help

[Nosta]

I Finally came across The shadow-lord Prestige class and I am Totally down with abusing shadow-pounce.

I know Shadow-lord Requires me to have either a special Template
or spellcasting? Well I can swing the Template if that Helps.

I need Help mapping out my first 12 levels.

I'd Prefer to have Shadow-pounce By 12th level so I can start the game with it.


Bonus Points if I can Fight unarmed

[xkroku]

For the first 12 levels, as you want to be unarmed SS, just go Swordsage 5/Assasin 7
But I recommend something more like Rogue 5/Assasin 3/Swordsage 1/+Assasin 3, and replace Tarp Sense with Penetrating Strike (forgot which book it is in, sorry). This way you gain more of the sneak attack damage, and Swordsage in the middle is for Assasin's Stance and some neat maneuvers.

I would also think about Avenger, the good-aligned Assasin, in case DM doesn't want any evil characters in the party.

As for the feats, go:
SS 5/Assasin 7:
1st: Two Weapon Fighting
human bonus: Shadow Blade
SS bonus: Improved Unarmed Strike
3rd: Weapon Finesse
6th: Ability Focus (Death Attack)
9th: Darkstalker
12th: Superior Unarmed Strike/Improved Natural Attack (fist)

Get the Assasin's Stance (or anythinf form Shadow Hand really), that way you will get Dex to AC, attack and damage.


Rogue 5/Assasin 3/SS 1/+Assasin 3,
1st: Two Weapon Fighting
human bonus: Craven
3rd: Weapon Finesse
6th: Ability Focus (Death Attack)
9th: Improved TWF
12th: Darkstalker

Of course in the Rogue 5/Assasin 3/Swordsage 1/+Assasin 3, you would have to twf daggers to be effective. The Swordsage in the middle is to pick up some neat Shadow hand maneuvers and the Assasin's Stace.

The last 8 levels:
-Remember to end the Assasin/Avenger PrC at an odd level (preferably 9), so you'll gain 1 Sneak Attack Die.
-After the 14 level you can continue to just go Rogue or Swordsage.
-You get about 2 feats later (1 if you're going the TWF route), so I'm sour you'll find something you like

That is all, I hope I was useful :smallbiggrin:

[Nosta]

we worked my question
I plan to play a Shadowlord but need help with the build

[ExLibrisMortis]

xkroku, you forgot to include Telflammar Shadowlord in your builds :smalltongue:. I still agree with swordsage, of course. For some swift-action teleportation, consider a psionic dip for dimension hop - good choices include ardent (mantles), psychic warrior (bonus feat), and erudite (two bonus feats, can be traded for mantles, int-based). The Freedom mantle grants the power and a 10' increase in movement speed. Psychic Rogue would be nice, but dimension hop isn't on their power list by default, and they get 0 pp at level 1. Still okay for four levels, for +2d6 SA and three first-level powers, but I think rogue 3/ardent or psywar 1 gets you more (with fractional bab).

[Nosta]

Any way I can make a strong build with out psionics, My Group Tends not to use it, cause we have trouble understanding it. :/

I was Going to say is there some other viable option?

[ShurikVch]

Note: Telflammar Shadowlord isn't the only possible source of Shadow Pounce.

How about the Crinti Shadow Marauder?

[Nosta]

Note: Telflammar Shadowlord isn't the only possible source of Shadow Pounce.

How about the Crinti Shadow Marauder?

I did not know of this. thank you

any recommend build for this to get shadow pounce by 12th level?

[Dagroth]

There's always the famous Glaivelock pounce build.


Level 1:
Swordsage
Level 2-6:
Warlock (Eldritch Glaive, Draconic Knowledge, xxx-replaced)
Level 7: Warlock (Flee the Scene)
Level 8:
Swordsage (Assassin's Stance, Shadow Jaunt(?))
Level 9-12:
Telflammar Shadowlord
Level 13:
Abrupt Jaunt Wizard
14-18:
Abjurant Champion or Eldritch Theurge

Desert Wind, Diamond Mind, Setting Sun, Shadow Hand, Stone Dragon, and Tiger Claw.

Flaws:
Urbanite: You suffer a -4 penalty on all Knowledge (Nature) and Survival checks. If forced to camp outdoors in anything less substantial than a tent and bedroll, you have a 20% chance to awaken fatigued.
Callous: -4 penalty to all Sense Motive and Diplomacy checks.
Feats:
Level 1: Desert Wind Dodge
F: Mobility
F: Blind-Fight
Level 3: Adaptive Style
Level 5: Kung Fu Genius
Level 6: Spring Attack
Level 9: Knowledge Devotion
Level 10: Create Wand
Level 12: Practiced Spellcaster-Warlock


If you can use Incarnum, then Totemist 2 will get you Blink Shirt for 10' teleport as a move action...


1) Swordsage-1
Feat-1: Desert Wind Dodge
Flaw Feat-1: Blind-Fighting
Flaw Feat-2: Mobility
2) Mystic Ranger-1 (Trap Expert ACF)
3) Mystic Ranger-2
Feat-3: Sword of the Arcane Order
4) Totemist-1
5) Totemist-2
6) Swordsage-2
Feat-6: Kung-Fu Genius (Int-to-AC instead of Wis-to-AC in light armor)
7) Wizard-1 (Abrupt Jaunt feature, Replace Wizard feats with Fighter Feats variant)
Feat-W: Spring Attack
8-11) Telflammar Shadowlord
12) Wizard-2 (if Wizard or Ranger aren't favored class)
13) Ranger-3 (Moon Warded Ranger variant for Wis-to-AC in light armor)

[Kaleph]

I'd consider the template, since alternatively you must be able to explicitly shadow jump, or use dimension door (not just any teleportation effect) as a spell or spell-like ability, which could be complicated to fulfill.

[Nosta]

There's always the famous Glaivelock pounce build.


Level 1:
Swordsage
Level 2-6:
Warlock (Eldritch Glaive, Draconic Knowledge, xxx-replaced)
Level 7: Warlock (Flee the Scene)
Level 8:
Swordsage (Assassin's Stance, Shadow Jaunt(?))
Level 9-12:
Telflammar Shadowlord
Level 13:
Abrupt Jaunt Wizard
14-18:
Abjurant Champion or Eldritch Theurge

Desert Wind, Diamond Mind, Setting Sun, Shadow Hand, Stone Dragon, and Tiger Claw.

Flaws:
Urbanite: You suffer a -4 penalty on all Knowledge (Nature) and Survival checks. If forced to camp outdoors in anything less substantial than a tent and bedroll, you have a 20% chance to awaken fatigued.
Callous: -4 penalty to all Sense Motive and Diplomacy checks.
Feats:
Level 1: Desert Wind Dodge
F: Mobility
F: Blind-Fight
Level 3: Adaptive Style
Level 5: Kung Fu Genius
Level 6: Spring Attack
Level 9: Knowledge Devotion
Level 10: Create Wand
Level 12: Practiced Spellcaster-Warlock


If you can use Incarnum, then Totemist 2 will get you Blink Shirt for 10' teleport as a move action...


1) Swordsage-1
Feat-1: Desert Wind Dodge
Flaw Feat-1: Blind-Fighting
Flaw Feat-2: Mobility
2) Mystic Ranger-1 (Trap Expert ACF)
3) Mystic Ranger-2
Feat-3: Sword of the Arcane Order
4) Totemist-1
5) Totemist-2
6) Swordsage-2
Feat-6: Kung-Fu Genius (Int-to-AC instead of Wis-to-AC in light armor)
7) Wizard-1 (Abrupt Jaunt feature, Replace Wizard feats with Fighter Feats variant)
Feat-W: Spring Attack
8-11) Telflammar Shadowlord
12) Wizard-2 (if Wizard or Ranger aren't favored class)
13) Ranger-3 (Moon Warded Ranger variant for Wis-to-AC in light armor)


your build seems fun. mind Explaining how it works?

[Dagroth]

your build seems fun. mind Explaining how it works?

Build #1: You need a race that has Warlock (or "any") as their Favored Class. I tend to prefer Primordial Half-Giant for this.

Start with Swordsage for good skills & Desert Wind Dodge (which is better than regular Dodge). You need Flaws to have enough Feats to qualify for TSL. I forget why you get a Feat at 5th level, so you should probably ignore it (I think I had Monk in the original build). A human would need 1 less Flaw, or could have a different Feat. Adaptive Style is pretty-much a must-have Feat for Swordsages.

Warlock gives you Flee the Scene & Eldritch Glaive, which gives you every round move-action d-door and a reach weapon that does 4d6 damage (6d6 when you get Practiced Spellcaster).

Second level of Swordsage is pushed back so that you qualify for Assassin's Stance as your 2nd Stance... thus getting you the 2d6 Sneak Attack you need for TSL. Plus it gives you Shadow Jaunt, a Standard-Action teleport effect.

I throw in Knowledge Devotion at level 9 because it really is "Weapon Focus for smart people". You don't have to toss a lot of skill points into knowledge skills because you're automatically getting +1 to hit & +1 damage vs. everything.

I just remembered where the 5th & 10th level Feats come from, but you should ignore them. They're from a home-brew template. Fortunately, the build doesn't need either one... they're just nice to have.

I toss in 1 level of Abrupt Jaunt Wizard because of Immediate Action teleporting just helping to abuse Shadow-Pounce even more.

The idea is that you start with the Shadow Jaunt maneuver (hopefully in a surprise round) and full-attack for 6d6 (+2d6 Sneak) per hit. Then Abrupt Jaunt to the opposite side (or to a very nearby monster) and full-attack again... then Flee the Scene to another monster (or the same one if you're fighting a really touch monster) and full-attack a third time in the round.

As long as you husband your Abrupt Jaunt uses, you can still full-attack on the rounds that you use Adaptive Style to recover your Shadow Jaunt maneuver.

Warlocks are also the masters of Wands thanks to being able to take-10 and there are a bunch of nice spells you want to make this build shine.


Build #2 doesn't require any specific race... I think I was targetting Greensnake Naga as the race, just for the cool factor (and the Venomfire spell).

Mystic Ranger is from Dragon 336 and gives spells starting at 1st level (and adds 0 & 5th level Ranger spells)

The build & combat tactics are similar... using Totemist's Blink Shirt for move-action teleporting (bind Blink Shirt to Totem Chakra for this) but you give up damage output for the sheer versatility of SotAO Mystic Ranger spellcasting.

On further reflection, build #2 should have Midnight Dodge instead, for the extra point of Incarnum.

Moon-Warded Ranger replaces "Combat Style" with Wis-to-AC. (Dragon 340) You may not care about it if your Int isn't very high (you still want an Int & Wis of at least 15 for spellcasting), so you may just take Two-Weapon fighting for Shadow Pouncing.

If Ranger (or "any") is your Favored Class, just keep going with Mystic Ranger. The nice thing about this build is your spellcasting. The "Primal" spell line, Venomfire (+1d6/caster level for 1hr/caster level? Nice!) and other spells to increase your melee combat (lots of great Wizard spells too!) will make you very effective.

For Feats at 9+, consider getting Extend Spell to make some of those spells last 2 days... Practiced Spellcaster isn't important... but the extra duration on some spells and extra damage on others can be handy. Increasing your combat effectiveness if your Str is low (Weapon Finesse & Shadow Blade) and improving your 2 weapon combat later on can help too.

[Kaleph]

I believe a (minor) bug of the second build is that you need 4 ranger levels to qualify for SotAO, but you can just postpone it a few level and it's done.

Regarding blink shirt, do you think it qualies as SLA? The manual is silent about the nature of soulmelds' abilities...

[ben-zayb]

Before you use a Glaivelock Shadowpouncer, I'd ask the DM first if he allows a houserule that Eldritch Glaive can be activaed on a full-attack. Eldritch Glaive, by Rules as Written, can normally only be activated with a full-round action.

If your base attack bonus is +6 or higher, you can (as part of the full-round action) make as many attacks with your eldritch glaive as your base attack bonus allows.
Also, Flee The Scene takes a Standard Action, as every other warlock invocation unless explicitly stated, so if possible I'd go with a Totem-bound Blink Shirt instead.

[Matrota]

I'd seriously check out this thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?147731-3-5-Shadowpounce-Pounce-Battle-Jump-Win). Potential 6 full attacks in 1 round? Yes please.

[Nosta]

here is my current build


1: Abrupt Jaunt Wizard/Combat Wizard/Improved Grab/
2: Abrupt Jaunt Wizard
3: Abrupt Jaunt Wizard/Multi Attack
4: Rogue SA(1d6) TRP-Finding/Pounce
5: Rogue Evasion
6: Swordsage Quick to act +1 discipline focus (weapon focus)-Claws Kung fu Genius
7: swordsage AC Bonus INT To AC
8: Shadowlord Shadowsight, shadow jump/Rake
9: shadowlord Shadow blur
10: Shadowlord Shadow walk
11: shadowlord Shadow pounce
12: warshaper Morphic Immunities /Rend/Morphic weapons

[Dagroth]

here is my current build


1: Abrupt Jaunt Wizard/Combat Wizard/Improved Grab/
2: Abrupt Jaunt Wizard
3: Abrupt Jaunt Wizard/Multi Attack
4: Rogue SA(1d6) TRP-Finding/Pounce
5: Rogue Evasion
6: Swordsage Quick to act +1 discipline focus (weapon focus)-Claws Kung fu Genius
7: swordsage AC Bonus INT To AC
8: Shadowlord Shadowsight, shadow jump/Rake
9: shadowlord Shadow blur
10: Shadowlord Shadow walk
11: shadowlord Shadow pounce
12: warshaper Morphic Immunities /Rend/Morphic weapons

You seem to be missing the prerequisite Feats of Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack & Blind-Fighting.

I assume you're taking the template for your "Dimension Door" ability. Abrupt Jaunt Wizard doesn't count for the pre-req, but it does count as a teleportation effect for the actual Shadow Pounce.

I would take Rogue or Swordsage as your first level for the much greater number of skill points and larger initial hit-die.

Edit: P.S. If you can get your GM's approval, the Chameleon race from Ebberon make for the very best Warshapers... because they can effectively always be considered to be in their alternate form.