Help! Paranoid Players

[doomtarot]

In my campaign we've got a player that is quite a bit paranoid. His character comes off as paranoid also. All of his characters do.

For example, one of the other players used a magical item to change his shape and changed into a copper dragon. The dragon happened to mention that the player (the current dragon) was about done creating his artificer items. The paranoid player immediately jumped to stating that the gargantuan dragon has been spying on him and accused said dragon of this fact.

He does this with every thing.

It is hard to thow anything surprising at them because he (and in turn his character) ask every possible question. His characters seem to always be a jack of all trades.

Created a puzzle dungeon and they went through the door way without completing the puzzle and 20ft later the party member was teleported back to the starting door way to the room. His character walked through the door way and focused magic at that spot 20ft away. Found nothing. Put on goggles of true seeing. Saw nothing. Used detect magic and concentrated while wearing goggles of true seeing. Found nothing. So he proceeded to get upset and mad about how there is a magical effect going off while there was no magic around. While all he had to do was turn around and focus the spell on the door way he had walked through.


Give me ideas to throw him off guard and either attempt to end the paranoia or work around it! The world is a custom one similar to Xoriat, so bizarre things can happen!

[MaxMAnAtArms]

Do you have any "relgious" PCs? Cleric/Pally/etc. Is it good or bad? Has said person Done proper rights for said god. Since gods can be jelous and upset which would mean no matter what Mr. Paranoid does He cant untrumph a god.

But thats also very much "limited"

Due some simple "non" magic traps.

See a puzzle that they ignore. Have a Basic "trap" stop them. they ignore/break trap. have it trigger a bigger one that was hidden beneath it. Where magic sight or etc will be useless.

Also keep track of his spells based on class ofc. Detect is a level 0 but all classes have limits on Spells per day including 0 spells.

[doomtarot]

I actually employed the magical trap under a mechanical trap for a "minesweeper" room in the same dungeon. They couldn't see the magic because it was pretty much under pressure plates that needed to be tripped first.

Also, none of the group ever plays a religious character. But, you did give me a possible idea regardless when you spoke of deities being upset.

[Dracul3S]

You use traps that cannot be detected and worry about paranoia creeping in? Have you ever thought about why your players turn paranoid? You might want to change something else befor adressing 'player paranoia'. I got the feeling that the cause is... experience with your dm style.

[OldTrees1]

"It's not paranoia if they really are out to get you"

Trying to catch them off guard is only going to increase their paranoia. Your magical puzzle door example may be a good case study. Due to the distance between the effect's trigger and the detectable source, have they started to spam Detect Magic on obviously unrelated areas of rooms before proceeding.

Personally I would talk to them OOC to get to know their wishes better. Do they wish to be inevitably surprised regardless of their efforts not to be surprised, or are they making those efforts to try to play a character that is never surprised?

[Guizonde]

reading your post, i feel that "paranoia" is the problem with you. with my team, we encourage proper paranoia to avoid getting killed to death, and improper paranoia tends to get us killed.

do you want to curtail your player's paranoid streak to speed up the game? to surprise the other players? another motive?

i'd say talk to the player out of session, because it seems like just more than a mild annoyance. if that's not the problem, why not mechanical traps? those things are undetectable by magic and can be quite lethal. one fun trap i've always wanted to use is the collapsing ceiling. the mechanism for the trap is above a door and gets triggered when that door is opened (so you can't see it by checking the door for traps). the ceiling collapses once the people are inside. feel free to add a grille to bar exiting that way, and add a real-time clock to run like the blazes through a corridor. believe me, they won't want to wait to detect magic or traps in that situation. if they do, meh. meat pancakes. tasty.

[Florian]

It´s nor "paranoia", it´s incompatible play styles.
You want them to solve a riddle, your player wants to know how to use the rules to bypass the riddle, like "Detect Magic" and then "Dispel Magic".
Think about this difference yourself and then have a talk.

[doomtarot]

I had only used the hidden traps once. I usually stick with straight mechanical or straight magical. I had to do it that way for the puzzle to work.

The party doesn't mind puzzles and stuff. We all do it periodically. I guess the biggest issue is this player seem to let his paranoia keep his character ALWAYS prepared and ALWAYS able to overcome obstacles.

The thing is, all of his characters are like this. In the campaign I am running and in others. He himself is a very paranoid person. I guess using the examples I did were bad ones.

He uses his paranoia to bypass everything. If a town regulates things more than most would, he, and his character, start assuming there is something wrong and the people in the town are trapped.

If a town has hardly any guards then he automatically thinks something is wrong and begins to question everyone in the town about why they have no guard.

Some bandits sneak into the town and are caught by the party. They take one alive and give it to the guards, then question it and it gives vague answers. "How many are going to be in the camp when we get there? "I don't know." "How do you not know? You're lying to me. You know how many are in your camp." Then he takes it to someone to torture it where he then gets the information of "I can't tell you how many are in our camp cause we send out more than one party. So I am not aware of how many will be in the camp when you arrive there."

And like with the dragon "encounter" I mentioned in my earlier post, he was friendly with the party member turned dragon until the "dragon" mentioned the party member was about done making stuff, which the "dragon" knew because it was the party member. The paranoid player immediately became paranoid and started accusing the "dragon" of spying on him.

[doomtarot]

This player had actually just last night heard another player fail a fort save with a 30 the DC was 33. And then he rolled his d20 and he was heard to say "11" and then started adding everything up and somehow managed a total of almost 40. The other player has a decent fort save and had rolled under a 10. When questioned, he had this and this and this which helped his fort on top of this too.


During another campaign, Spider Queen, that we had started to honor a friend who had been working on it and passed before it was finished, we could start with a lvl 10 character, with the starting gold for that lvl and a +3 weapon, which is how our friend had started it. He somehow had goggles of true seeing, ring of invisibility, scroll of true res, wand of fly, items of teleport to get him to safety, so on so forth and has bypassed and succeeded in EVERY obstacle.

It's typical for any of his characters. I honestly would prefer to try to cut out the paranoia somehow or give him good reasons to be paranoid because it seems to aggravate most of the party when we play.

[John Longarrow]

if it bothers yourself and the other players, deal with it out of character. Anything you do in game won't change his approach until you address it out of game.

[OldTrees1]

It's typical for any of his characters. I honestly would prefer to try to cut out the paranoia somehow or give him good reasons to be paranoid because it seems to aggravate most of the party when we play.

1) If you do not like the Paranoia, do not exacerbate it. This means do not escalate until you know more.

2) Get to know this player a bit more. Why are they so paranoid (use different words/phrases in the talk)? Are their expectations about the severity of failure different than your expectations?

3) Make your game a safe place for this player to be surprised. What that means depends on the answers you are supposed to get in step 2. The idea is you need to dispel the reason for the paranoia rather than try to give more good reasons for it (which would only make them even more paranoid).

4) If you are unable to achieve step 3, then your game is not a match for this player. What they need out of the game will need to be found with another DM.

[Madwand99]

I'm confused. This player sounds awesome. I don't understand the problem. He sounds like a good player. Now, if he's metagaming, that's a problem, but it doesn't sound like it. This is exactly the sort of player I like to play with. Is he being disruptive somehow?

[ryu]

I'm confused. This player sounds awesome. I don't understand the problem. He sounds like a good player. Now, if he's metagaming, that's a problem, but it doesn't sound like it. This is exactly the sort of player I like to play with. Is he being disruptive somehow?

Also of note is that it's only metagaming if the person in question is using knowledge their character has no way of knowing. Having an extremely paranoid general plan that can be applied to most situations, and modifying based on things that have actually happened to you? That's not metagaming. That's the opposite of metagaming.

[Guizonde]

I'm confused. This player sounds awesome. I don't understand the problem. He sounds like a good player. Now, if he's metagaming, that's a problem, but it doesn't sound like it. This is exactly the sort of player I like to play with. Is he being disruptive somehow?

from what i gather, the dude is metagaming insofar as all his characters are like that. i've played paranoid characters, and it was a hassle. i played devil-may-care characters just after to see what would happen when i don't think about everything (to note, i am clinically paranoid, and it felt great to let go for a few sessions).

a healthy metagame knowledge of everyday tasks in an rpg is good (remembering to do perception checks). systematically casting "detect magic/evil/traps/4th wall" every time the group moves 5ft is both boring and slows the group down. i get the feeling said dude thinks he's playing call of cthulu instead of dnd.

[Arbane]

"I always like to have a single paranoid player when I'm GMing..." (http://imgur.com/gallery/YzrTP)

[denthor]

I keep saying this everybody gets mad

Start at level 1 work your way up and keep to core as long as you can.

Your paranoid player will not be able to have all the great magic items he wants. Unless he builds them himself he must rely on NPC's and more importantly he must decide if the challenge to get the item is worth the risk to adventure.

The jack of all trades skill point thing goes away why because he will put points into things that matter in the moment not for some random what would happen he would have to plan his character and that means not everything can be done at once

for the record i had character use two hours of real time searching to what amounted to 1,000 square feet in a cave only found a trap that activated and magic mouth spell also activated which let the other party know something with intelligence entered the cave complex. Because they could see the rock 5 feet inside the cave and the magic mouth did not go off when they entered. We were not inside when it happened so who cares if there was a meaningless trap in my opinion

How would your player respond? to the above the others showed up two days later at night.


This is a trap that will unhinge him

cave with a north or a south entry way so no direct sunlight most of the year. 50 feet in of a 150 foot hallway there is a wooden door this is hinged to the wall and is to small for the passage way on all sides three inches it swings either way easily so that you can pass right through. it makes no sound it is well greased. The trap if they light a torch to see in the entry way light goes beyond the door and lets anybody who is watching make a spot check roll to notice the light that should not be there this can warn an entire complex.
since light in the dark can be seen about 200 feet away in a dark cave and you are 100 feet to the end of the hall way

disarming said trap do not light a torch or cast a light spell.

[OldTrees1]

I keep saying this everybody gets mad

Start at level 1 work your way up and keep to core as long as you can.

Your paranoid player will not be able to have all the great magic items he wants. Unless he builds them himself he must rely on NPC's and more importantly he must decide if the challenge to get the item is worth the risk to adventure.

The jack of all trades skill point thing goes away why because he will put points into things that matter in the moment not for some random what would happen he would have to plan his character and that means not everything can be done at once

So to try to solve the paranoia, you remove what might have been calming them down? Powerlessness is a cause of paranoia. I would first find out if their paranoia is due to a feeling of weakness before I would risk exacerbating what I was trying to remove.

That said, if it is some other kind of paranoia, this solution would change their symptom without removing the cause for their paranoia. So partial solution?



This is a trap that will unhinge him

disarming said trap do not light a torch or cast a light spell.

If the character is truly paranoid, then they already suspect they have fallen for dozens of these traps before this thread was made. Do not expect this to unhinge them more than they already are.

[Tohsaka Rin]

Paranoia can stem from a feeling/fear of being helpless.

One way to combat this, is to make the player feel more at ease about the game. A good discussion with the player, before or after a session, one-on-one to address their worries will likely do some good.

Not everything can be fixed just by talking, but I've learned that a LOT of ingame problems can be mitigated, by discussing things with a player out of game.

[The_Jette]

I had only used the hidden traps once. I usually stick with straight mechanical or straight magical. I had to do it that way for the puzzle to work.

The party doesn't mind puzzles and stuff. We all do it periodically. I guess the biggest issue is this player seem to let his paranoia keep his character ALWAYS prepared and ALWAYS able to overcome obstacles.

The thing is, all of his characters are like this. In the campaign I am running and in others. He himself is a very paranoid person. I guess using the examples I did were bad ones.

He uses his paranoia to bypass everything. If a town regulates things more than most would, he, and his character, start assuming there is something wrong and the people in the town are trapped.

If a town has hardly any guards then he automatically thinks something is wrong and begins to question everyone in the town about why they have no guard.

Some bandits sneak into the town and are caught by the party. They take one alive and give it to the guards, then question it and it gives vague answers. "How many are going to be in the camp when we get there? "I don't know." "How do you not know? You're lying to me. You know how many are in your camp." Then he takes it to someone to torture it where he then gets the information of "I can't tell you how many are in our camp cause we send out more than one party. So I am not aware of how many will be in the camp when you arrive there."

And like with the dragon "encounter" I mentioned in my earlier post, he was friendly with the party member turned dragon until the "dragon" mentioned the party member was about done making stuff, which the "dragon" knew because it was the party member. The paranoid player immediately became paranoid and started accusing the "dragon" of spying on him.


This player had actually just last night heard another player fail a fort save with a 30 the DC was 33. And then he rolled his d20 and he was heard to say "11" and then started adding everything up and somehow managed a total of almost 40. The other player has a decent fort save and had rolled under a 10. When questioned, he had this and this and this which helped his fort on top of this too.


During another campaign, Spider Queen, that we had started to honor a friend who had been working on it and passed before it was finished, we could start with a lvl 10 character, with the starting gold for that lvl and a +3 weapon, which is how our friend had started it. He somehow had goggles of true seeing, ring of invisibility, scroll of true res, wand of fly, items of teleport to get him to safety, so on so forth and has bypassed and succeeded in EVERY obstacle.

It's typical for any of his characters. I honestly would prefer to try to cut out the paranoia somehow or give him good reasons to be paranoid because it seems to aggravate most of the party when we play.

Honestly, this is how it works when you're interrogating someone who has information that you want. You shake them up, intimidate them, and call them a liar. You make them want to tell the truth, because they think you can see right through them. If the enemy spills information like "we send out multiple teams so I don't know how many will be there" then you have new information, and can start questioning in a different direction. "How many teams do you send out? How big is the average raiding party size? How many people do you have total, including whoever might be out at any given time?" This is all good information. If the average team size is ten, and they can only send out four teams at a time, but they have fifty bandits total, then you know that they leave their camp nearly deserted sometimes, and can plan to attack the town when the most people are out, then ambush the groups as they return.
Btw, do you ever check your player's sheets to make sure that they're being honest? I let players create their characters, but everything has to be approved by me before they can play. So, if they're saying they have x item that boosts y ability, I should already know about it. I don't know what level they're playing at, but it seems suspicious to get a roll of near 40 when you rolled below ten.

[Telonius]

Sounds to me like you have a couple related problems. First, the guy's paranoid playstyle seems to be incompatible with what you want or are expecting. Paranoia in general is a thing that's kept characters alive since first edition. (There's a reason that "gygaxian" has come to mean "filled with random death traps that activate when you look at them funny"). Particularly if this guy is an older gamer, a bit of paranoia is to be expected. The trick is to get it in balance with what's actually appropriate to the game, and to everybody else's enjoyment of it. I'd suggest having a talk with him about it. If he's inspecting every square inch of the dungeon before moving forward, that's going to be bogging down gameplay for everybody. Make it clear to him that he needs to pick up the pace.

After you have that discussion, I'd suggest putting a time constraint on the players. Not necessarily get out a stopwatch; but say that the princess is going to be killed in x hours; or you have x rounds to disarm the trap as it activates. Hesitate and be lost. Paranoia really only sets in when there's enough time for it. Otherwise, it's just action.


The second problem sounds like you're not fully trusting how he's getting his numbers. (Paranoia is contagious). If you think there's any funny business going on there, you're fully in your rights as DM to ask him to explain how and why he's getting the numbers he's getting. +29 to a save is definitely possible, especially if Tome of Battle is involved. But not unless you're higher level. I also wouldn't assume he's deliberately cheating. You should rule out incompetence before you explain it with malice.

[Quertus]

Playing the game with a combination of paranoia and proper role-playing is a perfectly valid play style, and one I'd personally prefer over blind overconfidence through metagaming. Calling it out as badwrongfun says more about you than it does about this player.

However, this play style not being fun for you or your group is a perfectly valid concern. So, from what you've described, we're talking about a difference in style, not a bad player.

Obviously, the best way to deal with a difference in style is to talk to the player. Be prepared to describe both his play style and your own, what specifically your issue is with his style, exactly what you aren't enjoying, and what you'd like to see. Find out why the player plays this way. See what it would take to get him to play "your way", or what alternatives y'all can come up with that you both find acceptable.

Be prepared to empower him to play in the style you prefer. That may mean a troll blooded character with a contingent Revivify and a free True Resurrection. That may be a guarantee that there will be no backstabbing "friendly" NPCs, no traps, or whatever else is causing his behavior. That may be nothing more than a pat on the back for playing ball.

Whatever it is, be prepared to make the necessary changes to elicit the behavior you desire.

Or, y'all may just like different styles of play, not be able to find a middle ground where everyone is happy, be completely incompatible, and need to go your separate ways.