3.5 Is it possible to go full healer?

[Dayaz]

So there is a game i might be joining doon that has about 5-7 players, with some missing each week. The only thing they don't have covered is someone to run healing for them.

At level four, is it even possible to be a healer, and then what are some options going forward into further levels?

[MHCD]

Healing does not usually demand a primary role, so the question is: whst else do you want to do? Covering healing out-of-combat opens that up even further, as "divine caster" isn't even *the* go-to option anymore.

Still, some fun ideas: beguiler or dread necromancer or warmage into prestige bard and warweaver. Low levels, provide healing through wands and make sure your friends aren't hurt in the first place (debuffs, minion meat shields, buffs, BFC). Prestige bard greatly expands your spell list (including healing spells), and war weaver lets you do things like throw out (effectively) mass Heal's, without taking actions away from your powerful spellcasting. Or check out the favored soul entries in the war weaver handbook.

Simpler version: bard -> war weaver

Level 4? Some combination of cleric, warblade 2, and crusader (taken after warblade levels can give you rockin' healing at that level. Select all the Stone Dragon and White Raven maneuvers with warblade for an easy idiot crusader who refreshes Crusader's Strike every round, while still being able to use cleric wands and scrolls. Make your way to Ruby Knight Vindicator, take Extra Granted Maneuver, and make sure you add all the "maneuvers readied" to crusader" and enough "maneuvers known" to warblade to keep idiot crusader status when you add healing maneuvers or whatever else you want to spam on your crusader side - all while adding to your cleric abilities.

Simpler version: crusader / cleric / RKV. Buff, heal, tank, beat face, heal, repeat.

[noob]

Straight cleric, druid, wizard, healer or even other casting classes have often ways to heal people.
For wizards you either need one feat to access healing spells or a high enough level for getting polymorph spells and other arcane healing spells.
Healer is the poorest healer unlike what its name says: yes you got an at will healing ability but you are not going to help as much as a cleric who can boost his allies too(or use his powers to smite opponents and battlefield control all the way to victory)

[Guizonde]

So there is a game i might be joining doon that has about 5-7 players, with some missing each week. The only thing they don't have covered is someone to run healing for them.

At level four, is it even possible to be a healer, and then what are some options going forward into further levels?

here's my take on it, hopefully you're playing greyhawk: cleric of pelor then as soon as possible hit up the radiant servant of pelor prc. it's got a few requirements that are fluff-perfect for a healer, namely ranks in religion and medicine.

i played a dwarven rsop (cleric5/ rsop3) for three years in return to the temple of elemental evil. my dwarf was a battlefield surgeon, who after losing yet another patient in the war against tharizdun, decided to man up and hit up the local pelorite cathedral to be taught the ways of the sun and healing domains.

the build is not that overpowered as far as cleric builds go, but it makes the healer of the group a force multiplier to be reckoned with. undead cannot approach you, you banish everything undead (later on evil as well), you heal to a heinous extent before even throwing the dice, and if you manage to finish that prc (i couldn't, irl prevented the campaign from concluding), you'll become a saint. "good for the good god, light shining in darkness". oh, and the level 3 domain spell for the sun domain is a frikkin' laser beam that will maul anything sensitive to light and good.

i had a lot of fun doing that. in theory (read: powergaming and optimization), i was underpowered. in that game, i was exceptionnally useful just by standing. my saintly aura prevented my group from feeling a lot of area effects, and i don't know how many undead i destroyed without touching them. by and large, a great healer build that can boost the group quite well. it could be seen as a one-trick pony, but you're still a cleric first and foremost. you're there to buff and rebuff (undead, that is).

[noob]

here's my take on it, hopefully you're playing greyhawk: cleric of pelor then as soon as possible hit up the radiant servant of pelor prc. it's got a few requirements that are fluff-perfect for a healer, namely ranks in religion and medicine.

i played a dwarven rsop (cleric5/ rsop3) for three years in return to the temple of elemental evil. my dwarf was a battlefield surgeon, who after losing yet another patient in the war against tharizdun, decided to man up and hit up the local pelorite cathedral to be taught the ways of the sun and healing domains.

the build is not that overpowered as far as cleric builds go, but it makes the healer of the group a force multiplier to be reckoned with. undead cannot approach you, you banish everything undead (later on evil as well), you heal to a heinous extent before even throwing the dice, and if you manage to finish that prc (i couldn't, irl prevented the campaign from concluding), you'll become a saint. "good for the good god, light shining in darkness". oh, and the level 3 domain spell for the sun domain is a frikkin' laser beam that will maul anything sensitive to light and good.

i had a lot of fun doing that. in theory (read: powergaming and optimization), i was underpowered. in that game, i was exceptionnally useful just by standing. my saintly aura prevented my group from feeling a lot of area effects, and i don't know how many undead i destroyed without touching them. by and large, a great healer build that can boost the group quite well. it could be seen as a one-trick pony, but you're still a cleric first and foremost. you're there to buff and rebuff (undead, that is).
Undead fighting specialisation is very efficient when in an undead based campaign(read: any campaign where each opponent spell-caster animate twice his caster level in undead hd because it is cheap for him or any undead centred campaign)
The problem is rather when there is no undead and that you meet opponents who harm your team with stuff other than damage and stats reduction and conditions.
Which is rare for the latter seeing how monsters in the base manuals are based on harming with damage or stats reduction or conditions.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Depends on what you're looking to do. There are sort of three ways to do healing in 3.5: You can top everyone off after a fight, you can spread around incidental healing mid-battle while concentrating on other things, or you can make a dedicated effort to turn your spell slots into big bursts of health.

The first option tends to rely on wands, usually of Cure Light Wounds or Lesser Vigor. With the right party composition (ie, everyone plays undead or takes Tomb-Tainted Soul), a Dread Necromancer can provide at-will healing from level 1, 1d8 at a time; at level 5, a Cleric can persist Mass Lesser Vigor to provide a trickle for everyone, all day long; at the same level, a Binder (with Improved Binding) can (but probably shouldn't) bind Buer and produce infinite healing, or they can grab Healing Devotion and power it with Tenebros' 5-round-recharge Turn Undead uses.
The second option... you can use things like the Close Wounds spell to provide swift or immediate-action healing... you can be a Crusader and use hit-a-target-heal-a-target maneuvers like Crusader's Strike and Martial Spirit... you can be a Favored Soul with the Deity's Favor ACF to grant temporary hit points every time you cast a spell... there are many things.
The third option is, well, play a class with lots of healing spells and take things like Augment Healing, Radiant Sevant of Pelor, Combat Medic, Imbued Healing, that sort of thing.


So the question is "what sort of healer do you want to be?" (And, I guess, the usual attendant questions: what sort of books are available, what sort of optimization level is acceptable, that sort of thing).

[Guizonde]

Undead fighting specialisation is very efficient when in an undead based campaign(read: any campaign where each opponent spell-caster animate twice his caster level in undead hd because it is cheap for him or any undead centred campaign)
The problem is rather when there is no undead and that you meet opponents who harm your team with stuff other than damage and stats reduction and conditions.
Which is rare for the latter seeing how monsters in the base manuals are based on harming with damage or stats reduction or conditions.

indeed. i did not mean it was underpowered, far from it. i caused so much havoc and outshone (no pun intended) the team so badly whenever undead were afoot that the dm rewrote parts of the campaign so we were facing fiends just so he could curb my specialization. against devils and cultists, i fell back on my combat medic role and everyone was participating fairly again. i was still a cleric, so no worries there. i could hold my own in a fight in a pinch, burning light (or however that spell is called in english) does moderate damage to living and non-evil creatures (instead of "too much"), but the funnest thing i did was bull's strength on me and the halfling monk, throwing him into combat and making him change size. nobody wants to tangle with a monk hitting at d12 per strike, especially when he packs 5 of those. of course, being in a campaign with a psycho-dm, being able to nearly heal 100hp in a single cure moderate wounds became a necessity. i had a lot of fun, all things considered. it was my second dnd character, and i was unfamiliar with the rules regarding fighting, so i stuck in the back and threw all the buffing spells on my teammates. some might find that boring, but i enjoyed the fact that my party would've been dead too many times over, and they thanked me for it. meanwhile, they made sure none of the monsters came too close to me (and paid for all my stuff in exchange for healing).

even if the rsop is usually seen as an undead-hunter, it's to my knowledge the most powerful healer prc i know of. if there are undead, there won't be with an rsop. if there are no undead, you can single-handedly keep a platoon in fighting shape for breakfast. that's of course not including all the team bonuses you grant.

[Dayaz]

I like the rkv most, simply because it let me heal through damage. My only concern is whether or not it can hold up to such a large group.

The rsop is also good, but with that one I'm afraid i would get bored since all i can really do is healing.

[D4rkh0rus]

Might I suggest the Eldritch Disciple? You can take Warlock (and a level of Cleric) to qualify for Ur-priest (use the old god variant for neutral goodness), take 2 levels of Ur-Priest, then go eldritch disciple.

one of the abilities (which can be taken at lvl 1 Eldritch disciple, lets you, as a swift action, expend a turn undead and create a eldritch essence infusion that heals instead of dealing dmg, and theres a shape infusion called eldritch glaive.)


Couple DMM and Persisted Divine power. You now have Full BaB, and with each attack you hit with the glaive, which applies the Eldritch disciple healing. Since its a melee weapon, some DMs might rule that power attack does work.

So enjoy Healing at the very least, 1d6/2 levels x number of attacks per round. (since turn and rebuke undead dont stack, you'll have quite a few uses.

Ps: this of course, would be for the later levels. by 4 you'd be a lvl 4 Warlock, which does get +10 to UMD so you can probably spam wands.

[Guizonde]

I like the rkv most, simply because it let me heal through damage. My only concern is whether or not it can hold up to such a large group.

The rsop is also good, but with that one I'm afraid i would get bored since all i can really do is healing.

rsop is in order: undead annihilator, maximized healer, regular cleric. believe me, it's not a one-trick pony, although not as versatile as a straight-up cleric.

would you mind explaining a bit more what you want to do? straight-up healing is not up everyone's alley, and even paladins have some minor healing ability alongside more offensive potential. if you want to be a skill-monkey, go bard with wands, if you want to be a beatstick capable of dishing out the pain and the healing, try a codzilla. what's the optimization level of the band and the foreseen levelling? it's not much use getting a long-build to pull off an insane combo if the party is gonna stop at level 7. maybe tell us a bit more about the flavor of the game? who knows, maybe the other characters involved might make someone on the forum have an idea for your perfect build.

[denthor]

I I have been in this position with 4th level character cleric start up I took bacob as the deity domains were tricky for sure I need invisibly & magic(I think) I know I did not take knowledge.

I suggest 2nd level cleric /2nd level rouge as a strating point

[Godskook]

A Bard with Healing Hymn, at level 4, can cast CLW and heal 1d8+11(15.5avg).

A Healer(class) can also add her Charisma bonus to her castings. A Bard 1/Healer 3 adds +7+Cha_Mod to her healing rolls with Healing Hymn running.

With Mass CLW at level 4 spells, you can at character level 8, heal a crowd for 1d8+8+11+8+Cha_Mod*. Reasonably at least 37.5 HP. To compare, a level 8 raging Barbarian with +5 Con has 97.5HP. So a 38% heal to the tankiest characcter on your team, but its AoE. Or you can cast Cure Crit for 51HP cure.

If your DM is mildly generous, you can try talking him into the following houserules:
1.Making Healer Charisma-SAD for casting. Probably worth a feat, but ****ty class base, so maybe he'll be nice?
2.Letting this Healer/Bard use Virtuoso or something similar to progress Healer casting. All you really need is bardic usages

*Bonuses are, in order, base spell value, Healing Hymn, Augment Healing feat, Healing Hands Healer class feature.

If you're determined to be a -healer-, this is probably a helpful part of the build.

Note: If you can talk your DM into let you take leadership for a Healer Cohort, talk a reliably available fellow player into taking the Bard levels, or otherwise seperate the Bard and Healing onto different characters, that works so much better, obviously.

[Metahuman1]

Cleric of Pelor into Radiant Servant. You should also dip 1 level of crusader, and think about working in spare levels after you finish Radiant Servant of Pelor with Ruby Knight Vindicator that's been tweaked to work for good/pelor (this is not an unreasonable thing to do.).

Now, here are the tickers.

1: Jack up your turn undead attempts. The more of them you have the better, period.

2: Take 2 flaws, you'll most likely want the feats.

3: Pay for a druid to make you a Bogun, and buy 2 mundane Sap's (Simple weapons, players handbook.) as soon as you get that crusader level. Also, make sure you pick martial spirit as your stance. And remember, the Sap's aren't your primary weapon and don't need to be magic or even master work.

4: Take spontaneous domain casting AFC from PHB 2.

You shouldn't miss out on 9th level spells, should be able to get some decently high level maneuver's. Radiant Servant and possibly some Divine Metamagic like DMM: Chain/reach/quicken, MAYBE Persist on a few key buffs but don't go hog wild with it, and the maneuver's, should make in combat healing and meleeing efficient and worth while. Particularly if you throw a couple of feats into it like Power Attack, though you really should need little in this regard.



And that stance and Bogun? Between fights, pick up the Saps, tell the bogun to stand still and not resist, and full attack it for none lethal damage. You heard right, none lethal. It's a construct, it's immune to that, but it's AC is crap since its holding still for you, so you should be consistently hitting it every time. And that means 2 HP back per swing for whomever in the party. A generally very cost efficient way to keep everyone in the party's HP topped off.

[Grod_The_Giant]

I like the rkv most, simply because it let me heal through damage. My only concern is whether or not it can hold up to such a large group.

The rsop is also good, but with that one I'm afraid i would get bored since all i can really do is healing.
AoE trickles aren't hard to get-- a one-level Dragon Shaman dip will let you shoot an Aura of Vigor that heals everyone up to half, and the aforementioned Mass Lesser Vigor will get your whole group with no issues. Maybe go for a Cleric-heavy entry to RKV, for the added healing muscle?

A Radiant Servant's class features may be focused on healing, but it's still a full Cleric. Do whatever Cleric-y things you want; you might lose some small amount of effectiveness from not having a dedicated PrC, but it's not like that'll make a big difference with the 10/10 casting. (And extra turning, and bonus domain; both are excellent benefits for standard-issue clerics)

[Dayaz]

Yeah, the Dragon Shaman and the Warlock with the CLW wand are what they have for healing atm.

I really like the bard/healer idea. I'll run that and the rkv by the dm soon

[Florian]

Let´s put it this way: It is possible but it´s not feasible.
D&D is build on swift and aggressive action, not outlasting a fight. Consider: Using wands of CLW and Lesser Vigor are the recommended ways to heal. That´s already covered. What´s not covered is removing status conditions, like Lesser restoration, Remove Disease/Curse, and so on. That´s easy with an aggressive cleric build that´s able to scribe/buy scrolls.

[Elkad]

While mass cure spells seem efficient in a big party, they really aren't. Because unless your party is very coordinated about swapping out wounded members from the front line, in a melee fight you end up with 1 guy almost dead, one hurt moderately, and a bunch that are still full health. They do work well for fireballs though.

Does the group have a bard? A-Game paladin (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?445134-Weekly-Optimization-Showcase-quot-A-quot-Game-Paladin) goes bouncing around through a bunch of ACFs, and ends up with a nice mix of full-power bard buffs and heals (though the heals don't start getting good till L5, when you pick up Divine Spirit (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20070209a)), good spell selection (including Wizard spells). And can still wreck faces with full melee capability and be the party face.

It should give you enough healing power to keep people standing, especially combined with the damage output you bring to the whole group so the fights are over sooner. Top them off after battle by any of the normal means (wands).


Note that some of the other stuff in this thread (like beating inanimate objects, or immune-to-my-damage-type party members, while in Martial Strike stance) will get you a DMG to the head at many tables. Tread cautiously.

[Mehangel]

I would recommend taking Reserve Feats such as: Mitigate Suffering and Touch of Healing (both from Complete Champion).