Step-by-step replacing of LA with RHD instead of DnD 3.5's LA-buyoff?

[Schattenbach]

As I'm pretty disappointed by the way both LA and LA-buyoff work (they don't really work all that well, after all ... LA-buyoff seems to be fine at first but gets way too good later on, especially if one starts at high enough levels when most or all of the LA has already been bought off), I'm considering to change it so that one actually has to get some RHD (though that would get somewhat weird for humanoids and creatures that usually don't progress with any RDH ... what to do there instead of giving them some silly Humanoid RHDs or weak non-RHD HDs like Expert instead?) at the point where they could buy some of the LA off (so instead of spending some minor EXP to get a shot at some shiny new class level, they get the - usually more expensive and less powerful - RHD instead?

Some opinions about how to improve this would be nice as well as some insight about possible negative sideeffects.

Thanks in advance.

[Celestia]

"LA buyoff," "way too good."

I'm sorry. I just can't wrap my mind around this statement. Perhaps if I hired the services of thirty sages we could figure it out...

LA buyoff is like putting a band aid over a gaping head wound. Sure, it's better than just bleeding to death, but it's not really helping much. Anything with an LA higher than +2 basically can't ever get rid of it, and anything with +4 or higher is competing with epic levels. That DR 10/magic is totally worth giving up an epic feat, right?

[Zancloufer]

This would be odd. Honestly some of the best monsters with hefty LA tend to be Outsiders and Dragons and they have GOOD RHD. Pretty sure 90% of Gestalt combos give weaker chassis than Dragon's get out of the box. Which would lead to two possibilities: (1) For some races with good RHD it would be better than LA-Buyoff. (2) It is just much much worse as you don't gain lost levels back faster AND you are limited in what you advance in when you catch up.

Also as was mentioned LA-Buyoff isn't that good. LA beyond +2 isn't worth taking WITH LA buy off as it takes too long to catch up with the rest of the party and the bonuses from a "stronger race" generally are not worth being behind in level 90% of the time.

[Schattenbach]

Thanks for help thus far.


"LA buyoff," "way too good."

I'm sorry. I just can't wrap my mind around this statement. Perhaps if I hired the services of thirty sages we could figure it out...

LA buyoff is like putting a band aid over a gaping head wound. Sure, it's better than just bleeding to death, but it's not really helping much. Anything with an LA higher than +2 basically can't ever get rid of it, and anything with +4 or higher is competing with epic levels. That DR 10/magic is totally worth giving up an epic feat, right?[/QUOTE]


There seems to be a slight misunderstanding going on here. To clear things somewhat up, I'm talking about cases where one could actually start at high enough levels (level 30/40/50+) to completly buy that LA (even those beyond LA +2) off without too much (LA beyond +5 is still quite impossible to completely buy off in most cases, though ... and higher LA-stuff is often not the slightest bit worth it, anyway, as Zancloufer pointed out) of an issue (for example, in some cases, its even possible to get a whole bunch of nice LA+1 or LA+2 templates along the way and buy them off once at a time ... LA buyoff ends up being too good for low LA races - and templates - and still not much better than it would've been anyway for high LA stuff) and thus doesn't need to suffer any of the major downsides of having to actually to play what its like to be (for example) one or two entire spell levels (talk about LA usually ends up with talk about casters after all, because they're more seriously hit by that until epic levels but once one has reached that point, things get quite a bit easier for them with 9th level spells and epic casting feats backing them up) behind.

It's pretty obvious that some things (like the DR 10/magic you mentioned before) become worthless later on or overlap with other things (though in that case, one "could" also use the LA-related guidelines, like those from Savage species, to automatically adjust the LA downwards based on guidelines like those from Savages species), though there are things where that's most likely not the case.



This would be odd. Honestly some of the best monsters with hefty LA tend to be Outsiders and Dragons and they have GOOD RHD. Pretty sure 90% of Gestalt combos give weaker chassis than Dragon's get out of the box. Which would lead to two possibilities: (1) For some races with good RHD it would be better than LA-Buyoff. (2) It is just much much worse as you don't gain lost levels back faster AND you are limited in what you advance in when you catch up.

Also as was mentioned LA-Buyoff isn't that good. LA beyond +2 isn't worth taking WITH LA buy off as it takes too long to catch up with the rest of the party and the bonuses from a "stronger race" generally are not worth being behind in level 90% of the time.

Dragon or Outsider RHD are still significantly worse than taking some Druid/Cleric PrC/Arcane PrC/Thrallherd/etc. (or anything that provides more Caster levels and/or the right skills to further improve said spellcasting/manifesting capabilities, etc.) ... though still better than the basic fighter level (though later on, that's arguably only the case in terms of skillpoints and such, as the epic progression changes some things later on and, with Divine Power boosting the BAB to the possile maximum, the attack bonus might actually end up a bit behind in and itself because RHD usually don't provide epic attack boni and as such only the regular BAB that gets maxed out by Divine Power anyway) or any other level of any class without noteable class features and/or decent chassis.

[Barbarian Horde]

You could try using the link below and see if you like the materials on it.

It touches on turning any CR into playable monster levels as a mean to get around LA. I think they did a fantastic job IMO.

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=9557.0

[Celestia]

If you're starting out at level 30+ then no amount of high LA races or templates could ever overshadow the absurdity that is epic spells. A level 30 human wizard is far better than any phrenic half-dragon troll or whatever.