Firearms in Pathfinder, availability and power level.

[EisenKreutzer]

I've been watching the Pirates of the Carribean movies. Which means I've been reading Freeport: City of Adventure and Razor Coast.
Which means I want to run a pirate campaign.

Reading through Freeport and Razor Coast, I can't help but notice that the two settings (which are otherwise very compatible) have two differet approaches to firearms.

In Freeport, firearms are rare and expensive, but generally slightly more powerful. By contrast, in Razor Coast firearms are much cheaper and more on par with Ultimate Combats firearms.

Now, In my book no pirate is complete without a flintlock pistol in their sash, so I definitely want firearms to be a part of this campaign.
But I don't really have a solid grasp of Pathfinders firearms rules, as I have never played in a game that features firearms.

So, Playground, these are my questions:

How powerful are firearms as a baseline in Pathfinder? I know the Gunslinger is considered very weak.

How much of an impact would increasing the availability of firearms have on a campaign?
Would switching them from Exotic to Martial disrupt the basic assumptions of Pathfinder?

For those with experience with either Freeport, Razor Coast or both: Which approach do you prefer? Rare and expensive, or relatively cheap and ubiquitous?

[Florian]

Gunslinger is considered to be weak because it doesn´t offer utility. Once you have the reloading problem solved, they´re very good damage dealers, tho.

The main advantage of Ultimate Combat/Ultimate Equipment guns is being able to go against Touch AC in the first range increment, making them slightly more powerful against heavily armored targets than comparative magical weapons could be, justifying the higher price tag.

[legomaster00156]

Indeed, the ability to target touch AC allows a firearm wielder to take significant attack penalties and still hit. If you can work out a way to reload as a free action, you can pile on Deadly Aim, Rapid Shot, and their ilk to to fan the hammer.

[Geddy2112]

Yeah, guns are really good at hitting things and doing damage. A lot of enemies and monsters at higher level are armor based or bigger than large, so gunslingers will always hit and do a lot of damage.

That said, that is basically all the gunsligner can do.

Making firearms martial weapons and having a 1 level dip in gunslinger get dex to damage will see a lot of gunslinger dips in your party. Having them as martial weapons won't change much as non gunslingers will still prefer other weapons, or they will be a niche sidearm. Having firearms be available to enemies of the party en masse will set heavy armor users at a disadvantage from the rest of the party.

[legomaster00156]

Having firearms be available to enemies of the party en masse will set heavy armor users at a disadvantage from the rest of the party.
To be fair, I doubt many people who may, at any time, need to make a Swim check will be wearing heavy armor.

[Vhaidara]

To be fair, I doubt many people who may, at any time, need to make a Swim check will be wearing heavy armor.

I mean, Swim is Str based. So even accounting for ACP, Str based characters will probably have better swim checks than Dex based characters. And as dangerous as the drowning rules are, the stabbing rules are more dangerous if you have no Dex and only light armor.

For perspective, the difference between Full Plate and a Chain Shirt is only 4 ACP, while the AC difference is 5 base, with 2 points difference if you assume they can both fill out their respective max dex mods.

[stanprollyright]

I'm starting a wild west campaign tomorrow.

Guns tend to have high base damage relative to their size, and most have X4 crits. Adding in the touch AC thing, they are very powerful weapons, but not game-breakingly so. Touch range is short. It's a very heavy feat investment, what with normal archery feats+rapid reload+gunsmithing+deed stuff. Even with quick clear, a jammed gun is an action tax every time you roll low. Ammo is rather expensive, and easy to get wet and ruined.

Gunslingers do a lot of damage, but they don't do much besides shoot. Most classes also have a "...WITH GUNS" archetype that give you some gun feats and a gunslinger deed.

[Honest Tiefling]

No experience, but...Even if someone could swim in heavy armor, I think that there is a chance people will go for the more thematic light armored approach. Is this a concern with the party? Or is everyone going to make tiefling gunslingers so they can reload with their butt? And if they do so...Is this an issue?

Or take the extremely lazy approach and let the players vote on it. That way, any issues are their fault for how they voted, but any good aspects means you are running it well.

[Starbuck_II]

I still say Penetration is a better mechanic. Not just because I invented it.
Guns: Penetration
Replace misfire and Touch AC mechanic;
Penetration bypasses the combination of armor, natural armor, and/or shields within 2nd increment (however, keep reading). One-handed firearms have a PR of 3, two handed firearms have a PR of 6, but this is ½ outside of 1st increment. Also PR automatically increases based on enhancementx2, so a character with a +5 musket bypasses 16 points of AC from armor, natural armor, and/or shields within 1st increment, but only 8 in 2nd increment.
Broken Condition: Penetration lowered by 4 (minimum 0).
Gunslinger:
Deadeye Deed: Same method by extends penetration
Quick Clear: If Firearm gains broken condition, can ignore for 1 minute.
Gun Training: Raises Penetration by 1 every 5 levels.

Alchemy cartridge: Lowers Penetration by 1 or more when used (use misfire value)
Dragon's breath: The nonmagical flame deals 2d6 + BAB points of fire damage to all targets within the cone of the scatter firearm (DC 15 Reflex save half). If you roll a 1 with either of the damage dice, the firearm gains broken condition or explodes if broken.

On another note:
Everyone carries a firearm if they are cheap
Even if shoot at start of combat then reload after battle, expensive guns prohibit this tactic.

[EisenKreutzer]

With regards to Swim checks, I am toying with the idea of Boyancy from Cerulean Seas to make swimming and water combat more interesting. A character in heavy metal armor would sink like a stone with those rules, which seems realistic.

[Necroticplague]

Also, though often overlooked among all the other little fiddly things about guns, they have a built-in functionality that can act like improved Power Attack. Their handedness isn't effected by inappropriate size, so the only penalty for using a large one is -2 attack. While this is a bad deal for smaller firearms, for some heavy duty ones, this can be +7 damage for -2 attack, which is a better ratio than Deadly Aim.