Help with a Cleric build

[Silex]

Back again folks, as I get a lot of solid suggestions from this community! This time around, I am looking at a Cleric build. Here is what I'd like to incorporate:

Cloistered cleric
Church inquisitor
Sacred exorcist
Radiant servant of pelor
Maybe 1 level of contemplative for the extra domain?
And possibly the Saint template

Most likely going to be a human.

So, I am looking for the drop-out points for each class, suggested feats, spells and domains, as well as equipment.

I am already aware of the DMM persist cheese, but not trying to make this super OP or cheesy.

Any ideas and suggestions would be useful. Would like the build to be from 1 to 20.

Thanks in advance all!

[Zaq]

That's kind of a lot of elements to cram into one character. What are you hoping to gain from each thing you listed? Why is each one important to you? What do you want the character to actually do?

[GilesTheCleric]

I see what you're trying to do, and it's the same thing I tried when I was new to optimisation. As Zaq said, though, do you have a goal? Right now, it's a generic "slightly improved Cleric without drawbacks". If you take a harder look at what you think you're gaining vs losing with this approach, it's not as appealing as it seems on the surface. Firstly, progressing turning doesn't matter. There's an excess of items and spells that can make up for any lost levels, and undead will only ever be a horde of weaklings that you don't need to bother turning, or a BBEG that your GM will prevent you from turning at all. Trying to maintain your save progression doesn't matter much, either. You gain spells that improve your saves, or could shell out a little gp for the ever-popular Cloak of Resistance; that's not to mention the many flat-out immunities you could have from spells that entirely negate the need for high saves. And finally, extra domains are nice, but Pelor doesn't have any good ones to offer, and Inquisition only has one good spell that's already on your list (True Seeing).

In short, what you're paying -- more point buy for a higher int score, burning skill points, plus wasting some feat picks -- just isn't worth the apparent gain. I recommend instead thinking about how you want to play your character. What types of tools would your character use to solve a problem? How would they prefer to contribute in combat? How does their personality drive their growth?

If this is more about just making a solid character, don't stress about it. Cleric 20 is as powerful a character as you could ever need. Taking weaker options won't hurt you all that much, while investing heavily in order to find small improvements just isn't that efficient. If you are looking for a way to further power up, it's going to be something that's equally as "cheesy" as DMM:P, because only things of approximately that magnitude will make any noticeable difference. If that's what you want, then instead consider looking for ways to boost your caster level, your spell DCs, or your flexibility (eg. domain spontaneity).

[Silex]

I see what you're trying to do, and it's the same thing I tried when I was new to optimisation. As Zaq said, though, do you have a goal? Right now, it's a generic "slightly improved Cleric without drawbacks". If you take a harder look at what you think you're gaining vs losing with this approach, it's not as appealing as it seems on the surface. Firstly, progressing turning doesn't matter. There's an excess of items and spells that can make up for any lost levels, and undead will only ever be a horde of weaklings that you don't need to bother turning, or a BBEG that your GM will prevent you from turning at all. Trying to maintain your save progression doesn't matter much, either. You gain spells that improve your saves, or could shell out a little gp for the ever-popular Cloak of Resistance; that's not to mention the many flat-out immunities you could have from spells that entirely negate the need for high saves. And finally, extra domains are nice, but Pelor doesn't have any good ones to offer, and Inquisition only has one good spell that's already on your list (True Seeing).

In short, what you're paying -- more point buy for a higher int score, burning skill points, plus wasting some feat picks -- just isn't worth the apparent gain. I recommend instead thinking about how you want to play your character. What types of tools would your character use to solve a problem? How would they prefer to contribute in combat? How does their personality drive their growth?

If this is more about just making a solid character, don't stress about it. Cleric 20 is as powerful a character as you could ever need. Taking weaker options won't hurt you all that much, while investing heavily in order to find small improvements just isn't that efficient. If you are looking for a way to further power up, it's going to be something that's equally as "cheesy" as DMM:P, because only things of approximately that magnitude will make any noticeable difference. If that's what you want, then instead consider looking for ways to boost your caster level, your spell DCs, or your flexibility (eg. domain spontaneity).

I am not necessarily trying to fully optimize, nor am I new to optimization. I am the DM for this campaign, and this is for an NPC that will be working with the PCs. The goal is to be able to help cess out the evil hiding within religious organization, and to be able to fight the evil and the greater power for which it is working.

Basically, I'd like to have all the tools at hand to help the PCs. This is a horror campaign with the coming of a custom Elder Evil.

I come to the community to see what other players and DMs would suggest as far as the build within the constraints, and their overall take on the character and concept.

[jdizzlean]

I don't have a lot to offer, I've never played a cleric myself, but i agree w/ the above poster that you don't need 5 classes/templates to accomplish what you're trying to do.

I have built a cleric for play, that will progress cleric 3, church inquisitor (probably 8) and then back into cleric. I do like the thought of applying saint to him later on, as i think that's a natural progression of the concept i've built.

this is that character at lvl 1:
https://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=1160404

and that character at lvl 9, but probably a touch OP on gear:
https://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=1167394

I also personally don't see the benefit to a cloistered cleric, but that's just me.

Especially if you're using this as an NPC, and not a PC, why not just fudge the abilities w/o having a character sheet that is 3 pages long due to the absurd amount of class abilities?

[GilesTheCleric]

suggest as far as the build within the constraints, and their overall take on the character and concept.

Alright. First of all, Pelor. You can pick from Glory, Good, Healing, Nobility, Purification, Strength, and Sun. Good is nice if you pick up Good Improved Power (Drag324 24) to buff the party, plus there's plenty of spells there that you'll cast frequently. Between the rest of the domains, eh. Might as well take any of them and then trade them out for a [domain] feat (CC 55-61). Several can be used to aid the party; Protection devotion is nice. If you take RSoP, you're stuck with Sun.

Cloistered cleric: excellent choice. If you're going high-int and playing a supporting role, then you could keep the Knowledge domain, though since you're human you could also instead take Able Learner (RoD 150) and move into Knowledge Devotion to make more of an impact in combat. Adding Faerie Mysteries Initiate (Drag319 58) to the mix wouldn't be bad, and would make you less MAD.

Church inquisitor: This doesn't add anything you can't already do with spells. Stopping at 3rd level will save you casts of True Seeing. All of the other features can be duplicated with Protection from Evil, Detect Thoughts, or Divination.

Sacred exorcist: You already have at-will Detect Evil from Church Inquisitor. Protection from Evil will net all the other benefits. The only unique skill here is the always-on Consecration at 5th, which is a bit neat. Maybe you could constantly carry a holy altar with you to really make it worthwhile. Instead of using the Exorcism ability, look at casting Exorcism (FC1) or taking the Exorcism domain (ECS 106), both of which get better results. If you allow Prestige domains, then there's also Prestige Exorcism (DotF 79).

Radiant servant of pelor: Luckily you get Heal, and Mass CLW to combine with empower/ maximise. Unfortunately, the wording of the various means of casting more domain spells means that you probably only get one of each per day unless you start replacing higher-level domain slots with Heal/ Mass CLW. Stopping at level 2 is ideal, since you can only use Empower/ max with Mass CLW, and by the time you get Maximise, you're going to want to be relying on Heal instead. You could replace this class with Belts of Healing, Wands of Lesser Vigor/ Faith Healing, or perhaps Draconic Aura: Vigour (DM).

Maybe 1 level of contemplative for the extra domain?: Unless you're picking a non-Pelor deity or there's another devotion feat you want, then there's not much need to take this.

And possibly the Saint template: Saint is good. Is the party all good or exalted? If not, then this could create some fun roleplay opportunities, though it might also impede on the party's decision-making.

Most likely going to be a human: Human is a great pick.

Feats: I've mentioned some up above; If this is going to be a support character, you might also consider things like:
Thrall Bred LoM 182
Greater/ Shield Mate MiH 28
Spellfire Wielder MoF 25
Grappling Block OA 63
Improved Aid OA 63
Reactive Counterspell PGtF 42
Redirect Spell
Bodyguard Drag310, Robilar’s, Stand Still
Stalwart Defense PHB2 83
Divine Ward PHB2 88
Wolfpack RotW 153
Allied Defense ShS 19
Faith Unswerving ToB 34
Protective Parry Drag301 38
Extend Defense Drag339 87
Squire of Legend (Sunyartra) CC 110
Tiger Mask Drag300 65

Spells: There's so many to pick. Without knowing the needs of the party, it's difficult to say. I figure this is where you'll solve the "tools to help the party" bit of the character, so it will vary.

Equipment: Can't go wrong with the big six (https://docs.google.com/document/d/14D5o2dCyDVgni91iuVFrs2RDRDaCD7O-dUkcO5CCIcE/edit#heading=h.798rufhf7i35). I will always recommend the Anklet of Translocation (MIC), and of course the ever-present WoLV and Belts of Healing. Scrolls of niche/ restorative spells (with or without Scribe Scroll) are great, too.

[Silex]

Alright. First of all, Pelor. You can pick from Glory, Good, Healing, Nobility, Purification, Strength, and Sun. Good is nice if you pick up Good Improved Power (Drag324 24) to buff the party, plus there's plenty of spells there that you'll cast frequently. Between the rest of the domains, eh. Might as well take any of them and then trade them out for a [domain] feat (CC 55-61). Several can be used to aid the party; Protection devotion is nice. If you take RSoP, you're stuck with Sun.

Cloistered cleric: excellent choice. If you're going high-int and playing a supporting role, then you could keep the Knowledge domain, though since you're human you could also instead take Able Learner (RoD 150) and move into Knowledge Devotion to make more of an impact in combat. Adding Faerie Mysteries Initiate (Drag319 58) to the mix wouldn't be bad, and would make you less MAD.

Church inquisitor: This doesn't add anything you can't already do with spells. Stopping at 3rd level will save you casts of True Seeing. All of the other features can be duplicated with Protection from Evil, Detect Thoughts, or Divination.

Sacred exorcist: You already have at-will Detect Evil from Church Inquisitor. Protection from Evil will net all the other benefits. The only unique skill here is the always-on Consecration at 5th, which is a bit neat. Maybe you could constantly carry a holy altar with you to really make it worthwhile. Instead of using the Exorcism ability, look at casting Exorcism (FC1) or taking the Exorcism domain (ECS 106), both of which get better results. If you allow Prestige domains, then there's also Prestige Exorcism (DotF 79).

Radiant servant of pelor: Luckily you get Heal, and Mass CLW to combine with empower/ maximise. Unfortunately, the wording of the various means of casting more domain spells means that you probably only get one of each per day unless you start replacing higher-level domain slots with Heal/ Mass CLW. Stopping at level 2 is ideal, since you can only use Empower/ max with Mass CLW, and by the time you get Maximise, you're going to want to be relying on Heal instead. You could replace this class with Belts of Healing, Wands of Lesser Vigor/ Faith Healing, or perhaps Draconic Aura: Vigour (DM).

Maybe 1 level of contemplative for the extra domain?: Unless you're picking a non-Pelor deity or there's another devotion feat you want, then there's not much need to take this.

And possibly the Saint template: Saint is good. Is the party all good or exalted? If not, then this could create some fun roleplay opportunities, though it might also impede on the party's decision-making.

Most likely going to be a human: Human is a great pick.

Feats: I've mentioned some up above; If this is going to be a support character, you might also consider things like:
Thrall Bred LoM 182
Greater/ Shield Mate MiH 28
Spellfire Wielder MoF 25
Grappling Block OA 63
Improved Aid OA 63
Reactive Counterspell PGtF 42
Redirect Spell
Bodyguard Drag310, Robilar’s, Stand Still
Stalwart Defense PHB2 83
Divine Ward PHB2 88
Wolfpack RotW 153
Allied Defense ShS 19
Faith Unswerving ToB 34
Protective Parry Drag301 38
Extend Defense Drag339 87
Squire of Legend (Sunyartra) CC 110
Tiger Mask Drag300 65

Spells: There's so many to pick. Without knowing the needs of the party, it's difficult to say. I figure this is where you'll solve the "tools to help the party" bit of the character, so it will vary.

Equipment: Can't go wrong with the big six (https://docs.google.com/document/d/14D5o2dCyDVgni91iuVFrs2RDRDaCD7O-dUkcO5CCIcE/edit#heading=h.798rufhf7i35). I will always recommend the Anklet of Translocation (MIC), and of course the ever-present WoLV and Belts of Healing. Scrolls of niche/ restorative spells (with or without Scribe Scroll) are great, too.

I very much like your suggestions and thoughts on this!

Anyone else care to weigh in?!

[Eldariel]

Equipment: Can't go wrong with the big six (https://docs.google.com/document/d/14D5o2dCyDVgni91iuVFrs2RDRDaCD7O-dUkcO5CCIcE/edit#heading=h.798rufhf7i35). I will always recommend the Anklet of Translocation (MIC), and of course the ever-present WoLV and Belts of Healing. Scrolls of niche/ restorative spells (with or without Scribe Scroll) are great, too.

It's worth noting that the big 6 are notably worse on casters than mundanes. Between Magic Vestment and Greater Magic Weapon, magic armor and weapons beyond +1 Abilities is practically speaking a waste for Clerics, and they have numerous ways to acquire natural armor, deflection and resistance bonuses. Only the casting stat bonus is something I'd really bother to itemize: the rest of the items I'd focus on improving my casting.

[GilesTheCleric]

It's worth noting that the big 6 are notably worse on casters than mundanes. Between Magic Vestment and Greater Magic Weapon, magic armor and weapons beyond +1 Abilities is practically speaking a waste for Clerics, and they have numerous ways to acquire natural armor, deflection and resistance bonuses. Only the casting stat bonus is something I'd really bother to itemize: the rest of the items I'd focus on improving my casting.

You're right, and it's good to mention. In this particular case, I didn't see much need to think too hard about itemisation, though. If the NPC dies, then the players can loot the corpse for things that should always be useful, and if it's a primarily buff-focused character, then DCs aren't too important. You could argue for +CL for longer duration buffs, but I don't think it makes much difference at the reasonably high levels this NPC sounds like it will be used in.