Party Balancing Issues with our Buffed Ranger.

[Ataboiiwhynot]

I'm fairly new to D&D, but our party's DM has done several things that are beginning to make me wonder if the ranger is just going to be the star of the show.

Our party has the following characters in it, and we are all level 3.

An elf rogue.
A human sorcerer. (Me)
The dragonborn ranger that this post is about.



So our ranger has the following benefits:

This homebrew archetype: Slayer Blade Dancer. It mainly focuses on allowing him to dodge attacks. (Not the problem, but if anyone could tell me if there are any balancing issues here, it would be welcome.)
Double proficiency on attack rolls with shortswords and longbows and with strength and dexterity saving throws.
And the following 'interpretation' of a rule.


Our DM decided that wasn't enough of a buff to the ranger, so he made this ruling. Every attack action he makes he can make an attack for each arm. All of this without using a bonus action which could be used to cast Hunter's Mark or some other ranger spell. Everyone has this option, but he benefits from it more than anyone else would because of his particular build. (It doesn't work well with spells.)

He says he has some cool stuff for the rest of us in store, but I honestly don't know what and feel that he has gone a little over the top with buffing the ranger. I just need either justification for his actions or a sanity check telling me that this doesn't actually have any problems. Also please tell me if I'm just being really biased against the situtation. Thanks for the responses. :smallsmile:

(I didn't know how to prefix this, it is kind of an awkward gray area between DM help and Player help.)


EDIT:Because somehow it previously violated copyright.

[Khrysaes]

Questions:

1: Did you know about the rule for twf before making characters?

2: WHY IN GODS NAME WOULD YOU DOUBLE PROFICIENCY ON ATTACK!? I could see an increase to attack rolls, but not double proficiency, at best a second stat, especially at level 3 that is strong, since more attacks means more damage. Although, to be fair, it should be less damage because of the shortsword or longbow requirement.

Other than that, if everyone has the same option, then it is not the rangers fault for using it.
The double proficiency is what makes it strong. and maybe the other archetype features

[mgshamster]

Yup. You're justified. That's BS.

[Gryndle]

I tend to be a pretty permissive DM. but if someone came to my table wanting to use those rules I would tell them not to come back until they are sober or on brain meds.

its even worse in your case as those are the DMs rules.. def have a talk with them. double number of attacks is way too much. double prof bonus on attacks is way too much. both together is just flat out insane. I mean its soo insane I would wonder if they are just messing with you.

[Contrast]

Double proficiency on attack rolls with shortswords and longbows and with strength and dexterity saving throws.


Yeah this is already very questionable.


Our DM decided that wasn't enough of a buff to the ranger, so he made this ruling. Every attack action he makes he can make two attacks, one for each arm. When he gets the Extra attack feature, he can make four attacks instead. At 11th level he gets six attacks because of his archetype. All of this without using a bonus action which could be used to cast Hunter's Mark or some other ranger spell. Everyone has this option, but he benefits from it more than anyone else would because of his particular build. (It doesn't work well with spells.)

Ha what? :smallconfused:

Is he aware there is a rejigged UA ranger which is widely considered an improvement on the PHB one? Maybe suggest using that and leaving the houeruling alone?

If not I'd suggesting changing class to fighter and action surging your way through every encounter.

[Gtdead]

Case of idiot dm with zero knowledge of mechanics. Avoid at all costs.

I really don't understand why DMs do this. I know a couple of them that just won't play the game without butchering the mechanics because they think they know better, or that the powercreep they create is a good thing.

[Ataboiiwhynot]

To answer the questions so far.

1: I know about the rule for two weapon fighting, and everyone else does too, but the dm said that IRL this could be done, so why not allow it in the game.

2: Rangers don't normally get double proficiency in any of this, much less the rest of the party. The DM gave it to him because of his backstory.

3: I have talked to everyone in the party about it. The rogue, "I don't care, I just play for the plot." The ranger, "DM's rules are the final say." The DM, "This is my game, my rules, it is perfectly fine and nothing is wrong."

[lunaticfringe]

Why isn't the rogue dual wielding?

[Potato_Priest]

To answer the questions so far.

1: I know about the rule for two weapon fighting, and everyone else does too, but the dm said that IRL this could be done, so why not allow it in the game.


Show your DM this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJBEDxh0RQw), and either ask for a twfnerf or a buff for the other styles to bring them up to par.

[suplee215]

To answer the questions so far.

1: I know about the rule for two weapon fighting, and everyone else does too, but the dm said that IRL this could be done, so why not allow it in the game.

2: Rangers don't normally get double proficiency in any of this, much less the rest of the party. The DM gave it to him because of his backstory.

3: I have talked to everyone in the party about it. The rogue, "I don't care, I just play for the plot." The ranger, "DM's rules are the final say." The DM, "This is my game, my rules, it is perfectly fine and nothing is wrong."

to refute 1 it is actually not possible in real life. Especially not with accuracy. Remind your DM that dual wielding is not twice as effective in real life, otherwise there will be actual examples of knights, soldiers, and martial arts practicing dual wielding.

2 if a back story give you such a huge benefit make your backstory you are the child of a god.

3 sounds like this is a "leave the table" situation sadly which i hate to say as I know if I left my table I will have nowhere to play.

[Sigreid]

That's broken as hell before you even get to the 2 for 1 attacks.

[NecessaryWeevil]

to refute 1 it is actually not possible in real life. Especially not with accuracy. Remind your DM that dual wielding is not twice as effective in real life, otherwise there will be actual examples of knights, soldiers, and martial arts practicing dual wielding.


There are real life examples of dual-wielding in combat and in martial arts (see: escrima bastons, rapier and dagger fighting). I would phrase it slightly differently: "if dual wielding was twice as effective in real life, everyone would dual wield in real life."

[MrStabby]

One of these would be crazy. Both together is... Well whatever the word for double crazy is.

Archery fighting style is widely considered to be particularly powerful And that only adds +2 to hit and only on bows. Double proficiency is just obscene. More damage from more attacks not using a bonus action is a little game breaking at low levels. At least at high levels more flying enemies can take the edge off this.

Sounds like the whole thing is a mess though.

[Me1000]

That's broken as hell before you even get to the 2 for 1 attacks.

I agree. that is what it is

[imanidiot]

I'm fairly new to D&D, but our party's DM has done several things that are beginning to make me wonder if the ranger is just going to be the star of the show.

Our party has the following characters in it, and we are all level 3.

An elf rogue.
A human sorcerer. (Me)
The dragonborn ranger that this post is about.



So our ranger has the following benefits:

This homebrew archetype: Slayer Blade Dancer. It mainly focuses on allowing him to dodge attacks. (Not the problem, but if anyone could tell me if there are any balancing issues here, it would be welcome.)
Double proficiency on attack rolls with shortswords and longbows and with strength and dexterity saving throws.
And the following 'interpretation' of a rule.


Our DM decided that wasn't enough of a buff to the ranger, so he made this ruling. Every attack action he makes he can make two attacks, one for each arm. When he gets the Extra attack feature, he can make four attacks instead. At 11th level he gets six attacks because of his archetype. All of this without using a bonus action which could be used to cast Hunter's Mark or some other ranger spell. Everyone has this option, but he benefits from it more than anyone else would because of his particular build. (It doesn't work well with spells.)

He says he has some cool stuff for the rest of us in store, but I honestly don't know what and feel that he has gone a little over the top with buffing the ranger. I just need either justification for his actions or a sanity check telling me that this doesn't actually have any problems. Also please tell me if I'm just being really biased against the situtation. Thanks for the responses. :smallsmile:

(I didn't know how to prefix this, it is kind of an awkward gray area between DM help and Player help.)

You should definitely multiclass into ranger ASAP.

[Decstarr]

While it is an obvious case of overpowering characters, I kind of disagree with the others here and do not really see a problem. As I see it, doing something like this causes several issues that should be addressed:

- Other players feel significantly weaker because one PC outshines them all and therefore lose interest to play --> This is a big one, but since it seems that your other player is fine with it, maybe all it takes is a little buffing of your own PC to be on par with the OP ranger and all is fine?

- The DM has to put significantly more work into creating challenging and interesting encounters since he entirely messes up the balance of the game as intended by RAW --> as long as you guys have fun and don't mind slaughtering stuff you shouldn't be able to slaughter OR the DM already adjust the difficulty, this isn't a problem at all. If the combat part of the game gets too easy and is boring, you will have to address it.

- If any of you ever play at a "normal" table, you'll have trouble adjusting to the standard difficulty and will feel rather weak for quite a long time.

Summing up, the way I see it all you need to do is find a way to either live with this really strong rogue doing all the killing - if he's good at role-playing and has a great backstory, I don't see a problem here - and focus on the strengths of your own PC more. Or you find a way to be as strong as the rogue is and make it a Gimli-vs-Legolas scenario in which you constantly bicker about who gets more killing done. You might even want to think about trying to build your own character in a way that you can buff the rogue even more - hello HASTE! - and enjoy turning him into an even more unstoppable killing machine.

I understand that players have trouble if other players "steal the spotlight" but personally, it has never bothered me much if I am offered some other areas that I can shine. You are a sorcerer, so be the face of the group. Focus on role-playing and decision making, be the strategist and the leader. Treat the guy as what he is: your muscle whose main task is to keep the baddies from hitting you. And more than anything: enable him. You'll see how satisfying it actually is if your muscle kills enemies even faster with your help.

Edit: Just Multiclass into Paladin, your group will need a tank anyways I'd say and the Sorcadin is the best multiclass anyways :-)

[Lombra]

I don't know your context, but see how it plays. Maybe the game will play out nicely for everyone, the choices that the DM made given what you said are ridiculous, but if your character wll get as ridiculous it may become fun.

[Contrast]

- Other players feel significantly weaker because one PC outshines them all and therefore lose interest to play --> This is a big one, but since it seems that your other player is fine with it, maybe all it takes is a little buffing of your own PC to be on par with the OP ranger and all is fine?

At the moment these rules make him strong but not overwhelmingly so. The real issue is when they hit level 5. +6 to hit (before stat modifiers) and 4 attacks - thats a level 20 fighter.

[JellyPooga]

At the moment these rules make him strong but not overwhelmingly so. The real issue is when they hit level 5. +6 to hit (before stat modifiers) and 4 attacks - thats a level 20 fighter.

And at level 5, the OP will have access to Fireball, which will deal guaranteed damage, up to 48, to everything in the room.

That's just the tip of the iceberg.

I'm not condoning this GMs obviously borked houserules, but the OP is playing a full-caster; he'll be doing more, in more interesting ways, than this hyper-Ranger ever will soon enough.

My advice to the OP; don't sweat it. Ride the shark and see if it's fun; this Ranger player might have all the cards now, but further down the line this GM might well be handing out other such "freebies". It might not be D&D by-the-book, but that doesn't mean it can't be fun.

[Harrumphreys]

Yuck, arbitrary and clumsy rulings that fiddle with fundamental game mechanics? Leave the table before it becomes an arms race.

[Khrysaes]

And at level 5, the OP will have access to Fireball, which will deal guaranteed damage, up to 48, to everything in the room.

That's just the tip of the iceberg.

I'm not condoning this GMs obviously borked houserules, but the OP is playing a full-caster; he'll be doing more, in more interesting ways, than this hyper-Ranger ever will soon enough.

My advice to the OP; don't sweat it. Ride the shark and see if it's fun; this Ranger player might have all the cards now, but further down the line this GM might well be handing out other such "freebies". It might not be D&D by-the-book, but that doesn't mean it can't be fun.

But the OP can only use fireball a couple of times each long rest. yes it does much more damage, but it is on a limited resource.


I would suggest asking the DM to nerf the rules as well.

Perhaps instead of DOUBLE attacks (based on off hand), just ONE EXTRA attack based on off hand per action, perhaps limited by the weapon type(no heavy, no versatile, maybe finesse only). Still wouldn't take the bonus action, but it becomes more limited, this same mechanic would then need to be applied to other attacks that work on the bonus action like the monk's extra unarmed strike.

As far as double proficiency, A possible fix is to ask it to be an extra fighting style instead. It wouldn't be as devastating. Or, more powerful, an extra feat... Still not a scaling +2-6 to attack.

[Saiga]

One of these would be crazy. Both together is... Well whatever the word for double crazy is.

I believe that's putting crazy as one of your expertise choices. :smalltongue:

[Findulidas]

Well if you play with such a GM then you can probably kiss balance goodbye.

[Sir cryosin]

There are real life examples of dual-wielding in combat and in martial arts (see: escrima bastons, rapier and dagger fighting). I would phrase it slightly differently: "if dual wielding was twice as effective in real life, everyone would dual wield in real life."

In that fighting style the dagger is mostly used for defense not for attacking unless you have a opportunity to do so. In the rapier and dagger style your not using both weapons to attack with. One is for blocking defecting, locking, and distracting.

[Findulidas]

In that fighting style the dagger is mostly used for defense not for attacking unless you have a opportunity to do so. In the rapier and dagger style your not using both weapons to attack with. One is for blocking defecting, locking, and distracting.

Its also usually better to have either a buckler or a shield. Since IRL not only can they be used to block with, you can also take advantage of the fact that they defend you better and counterstrike much more freely. Also use them to attack with of course. Shields are also usually better if you face more than one opponent since you can more easily defend a larger area with a shield. You also really dont want to be hit IRL which means a much more solid way of defending yourself while still having a weapon is most likely a better choice.

Reach is also very much underrated in most tabletop games I would say. There is a reason halberds, pikes and spears are that much more common than swords in historical battles. Its not just cos they were cheaper to make, its also that you can hit your opponent before he can even hurt you. I feel I going more and more offtopic though...

[mephnick]

Guy has no concept of balance or why mechanics work the way they do. Might as well play a game with no rules.

This makes me physically ill as a DM.

[MadBear]

Normally, I'd suggest talking with your DM on this one, but seeings as you already did this, I'd suggest leaving if your not having fun. The DM doesn't understand how to balance the game, and his rules are kinda crazy OP. That's just my take though.

[Findulidas]

Guy has no concept of balance or why mechanics work the way they do. Might as well play a game with no rules.

This makes me physically ill as a DM.

The rule per se isnt whats bad about it really. Its the fact that as a DM you are supposed to set up a game that everyone on the table enjoys. Having a set amount of rules that everyone should follow helps this a lot since you can refer to it to rule things out and there will be less sad faces about it. However if everyone is enjoying the game then who cares, calvinball might be enjoyable if you play it with the right people. The fact hes not happy and its due to the homebrewed contents of the DM is a problem though. Its clearly the DM's fault.

[gameogre]

Geez guys! Man you hopped all over this DM without even knowing who it is! Is this your DM?http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/File:Drizzt_Do%27Urden_-_Sojourn_-_Jeff_Easley.jpg

I thought so!

Now does that maybe explain a little bit?


Look man just ask DM Do'Urden to maybe buff the other class's up to Ranger levels, It's just a game,nobody actually believes Rangers aren't the best.

Also does his Panther attend the games? Would pay money to see that cat retrieve dice,

[Mortis_Elrod]

Geez guys! Man you hopped all over this DM without even knowing who it is! Is this your DM?http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/File:Drizzt_Do%27Urden_-_Sojourn_-_Jeff_Easley.jpg

I thought so!

Now does that maybe explain a little bit?


Look man just ask DM Do'Urden to maybe buff the other class's up to Ranger levels, It's just a game,nobody actually believes Rangers aren't the best.

Also does his Panther attend the games? Would pay money to see that cat retrieve dice,

Panther is actually the rogue

[Ataboiiwhynot]

Again, thanks for the replies, but what is the best way I can bring this to my DM's attention and get him to change something without making him angry at me. I have asked him about this before, but he has always gotten mad and said that it is his game and that I can't alter his decision.

[Findulidas]

Again, thanks for the replies, but what is the best way I can bring this to my DM's attention and get him to change something without making him angry at me. I have asked him about this before, but he has always gotten mad and said that it is his game and that I can't alter his decision.

There probably is no good way. We havent heard his side of the story either to be fair.

[Jacquerel]

I don't think there really is a way to tell a DM that doesn't want his rules challenged that his house rules are bad and not fun.
If what you have already tried has provoked that response, I'm not sure you can do anything that wouldn't. He quite possibly just doesn't care that the Ranger is overshadowing everyone else.
You could link him to this thread but I don't think it would make him very happy.

[Mortis_Elrod]

Again, thanks for the replies, but what is the best way I can bring this to my DM's attention and get him to change something without making him angry at me. I have asked him about this before, but he has always gotten mad and said that it is his game and that I can't alter his decision.

Here's what you do. Go fighter till level 15 and take twf and dual wield axes. BUT take champion. ask if oyu can change to half orc, then put the rest of your levels in barbarian, make sure to grab savage attacker.

Start criting like crazy with advantage to every attack with reckless attack and rage bonus and half orc plus savage attacker. Do this all the time. Even if its a social encounter start picking a fight. Just forget you were a sorcerer at all.

[Decstarr]

Talk to him specifically addressing your feelings. I doubt linking to this post would do any good, more likely to have the opposite effect. I'd go like this:

Hey man, there are some effects of your home brew rules that greatly affect balance and make playing my character less enjoyable for me. Mainly, once Rogue hits lvl 5, he'll attack 4 times with a +6 modifier which is what an ordinary lvl 20 fighter would do. Quite frankly, I don't see any possible way for me to enjoy playing with a one-man army like this since it renders everything my PC could do more or less redundant.

Alternatively: Adjust and live with it, focusing on all the other aspects of the game in which the rogue isn't OP. Mainly role-playing and utility.

Or, just quit this table. If you talked to him about it before and he got mad AND you think you're unable to enjoy it with an OP teammate, then why waste your time?

[gameogre]

Again, thanks for the replies, but what is the best way I can bring this to my DM's attention and get him to change something without making him angry at me. I have asked him about this before, but he has always gotten mad and said that it is his game and that I can't alter his decision.


He is going to get angry. Any DM who would make these changes isn't gonna be the most well balanced well meaning DM out to make the best game for his players he can. Sorry about that but thems the breaks,

My advice to you is to open the DM's guide and start reading. It's more than likely that IF you care enough to come here and ask, IF you care enough to read all the rules and IF you care enough to try and build a game your players will have fun with......then you should be DMing.

I would not however stop playing with this DM. Use him to learn what not to do.

Playing under other DM's is one of the best things you can ever do. Every single time you can pick up on ways to improve your game, good or bad there are lessons to be learned at every table.


How did the DM's house rules make you feel? Do you think they are well thought out? Did he take the players wants and likes into account? Are they well thought out and how do they effect the other parts of his game? You can learn from all these.

Things I have learned under other DM's.

1-Nobody cares about world history of your 80,000 year old setting unless it can be directly related to the players AND be one paragraph or less.

2-DMPC's - Just Fing Don't. Even when done right,it's wrong.

3-One fun characteristic detail about a place is better than any amount of flavor text.

4-Nobody gives a crap about your world/dungeon maps, just make sure you can use them anything else is waste.

5-House rules need to be simple and easy to remember and well thought out AND everyone needs to agree to them before the game starts for the first time. If you want to change something mid game make sure everyone is on board with it.

5-EVERYONE needs to bring something to eat or drink or chip in some bucks.

6-Speaking in character is cool, being believable as that character is far better.

7-Players are the center of the story but not the world.

8-Being prepared for a game is not planning every detail of it, the players decide where the focus of the game goes not the DM. This can be fixed for the DM if he asks ahead of time. Guys I bought this adventure about hunting pirates is that ok? works a hell of a lot better than you are suddenly on a ship at sea hunting pirates, when last we you left off in a goblins cave.

[Beelzebubba]

Again, thanks for the replies, but what is the best way I can bring this to my DM's attention and get him to change something without making him angry at me. I have asked him about this before, but he has always gotten mad and said that it is his game and that I can't alter his decision.

You chose a slightly inaccurate title for the thread. I'd instead say it's:

"My DM is a thoughtless power-tripping man-child with no business running a game."

You want serious advice? Sever. Walk away.

Don't try to change the idiot, he has too much of an ego about being the big strong arbitrary judgment-maker. This dude is a knob. You're not making him mad. He's deciding to get mad when anyone challenges his little power trip. He has no interest in making the game fun for you. It's all about him.

You deserve someone that, when you bring up a concern, says 'oh man, sorry it's not working out, what's going on?' and listens to your concerns and takes them seriously.

Your time is WAY more valuable than that. You deserve someone who considers how you feel, who wants you to have fun, who tries to make the game fair and enjoyable!

[KorvinStarmast]

My advice to you is to open the DM's guide and start reading. . I snipped the rest of your most excellent post.

For the OP:
Are you in competition with the Ranger player?
If so, why?
Melee characters have a variety of ways to get hosed by monsters. First time you all run into a black pudding, step back and watch this ranger turned blender get confused and possibly outmatched.

If you focus on the success of your team -- the three of you -- then does it really matter if in some fights the ranger rocks? No. If all that your DM presents is sword fights, I'd be worried after about level 4.

Not all fights are sword fights. I'd stop complaining and start playing.

I've played D&D with some fantastic DM's, some OK DM's, and some learning DM's. And I've also played with some awful DM's whose campaigns rarely lasted more than a dozen sessions.

Are these people your friends? If so, Focus on That.

[Ataboiiwhynot]

I'll keep playing for a while and keep in mind everyone's advice. The players are my friends, but not the DM. However, if it gets to the point that there is no point in me burning spells in an encounter I will probably leave since the rest of the party can take care of itself.

[Khrysaes]

I'll keep playing for a while and keep in mind everyone's advice. The players are my friends, but not the DM. However, if it gets to the point that there is no point in me burning spells in an encounter I will probably leave since the rest of the party can take care of itself.

If you are concerned about it and don't want to bring it up to the DM, and are friends with the players. You could discuss it with your friends, and altogether bring it up to the DM. It will be more impact, especially if the Ranger Player is of the same mind as you. Be sure to communicate that it isn't as fun for you to play with an imbalanced character. The point of the game is for everyone to have fun, and if not everyone is having fun, then there is a concern. Now, this isn't to say that everyone gets the limelight equally, but it should at least be a trade, one person, and then another.

[jaappleton]

The PHB Ranger does, in fact, need a buff. However, what the DM did is simply far too much. He essentially gave the character two +3 weapons to start with, and more.

Its fine for each character to shine occasionally. Normally they're supposed to share the spotlight equally, but of course each wants a moment to shine brighter.

What the DM has done is essentially turned off the spotlight on the rest of the party.

[GlenSmash!]

i can only commiserate with you as I think there is little you can do to remedy this beyond leaving the game.

I honestly can't fathom why this buffed ranger exists, when the Revised Ranger from UA is already pretty buffed compared to the PHB Ranger.

My condolences on your DM.

[DireSickFish]

The high road is to leave the game altogether.

The middle road is to suffer through it and have fun with your friends how you can. Sure the DM sucks but at least you get to pretend with your pals.

The low road is to completely undermine the GM and devolve into pettiness. Get under his skin and undermine his game. It would require a lot of work and you walk a fine line between being to obvious and just getting booted right away, and being to subtle and going back to the middle road.


As someone with no stake sin this the low road, and stories from it, are what I want to see. As an actual human being with empathy, the high road and just cutting your losses is the most virtuous path.

[Sir cryosin]

What you do is continue playing in this campaign. Multi-class into Warlock take about 2 or 3 levels and Warlock. To pick up the invocations Eldritch spear in agonizing blast. Soda Eldritch blast now has a range of 300 ft to add your Christmas on a fire to everything Beam. Pick up the feat spellsniper Turing your EB up to 600ft. Pick quicken and distance meta-magic options. Pick spell the following spells blink, counter spell, fireball,magic missile, greater invisibility. What you do is turn invisible quicken a EB for up to 4 beams. From 1200ft away. Then next turn quicken EB again then as action drop a fireball down. Then just rinse and repeat and if you really want to get crazy with the attack rolls find or craft a wand of warmage and switch out fire for scorching Ray. You can also take 2 more levels bringing you up to five levels in warlock to get one of those new invocation for the fiend pact warlock where it lets you to cast Fireball as a bonus action if you already cast Eldritch blast.

[Ruebin Rybnik]

IF you care enough to read all the rules and IF you care enough to try and build a game your players will have fun with......then you should be DMing.

I would not however stop playing with this DM. Use him to learn what not to do.
Playing under other DM's is one of the best things you can ever do. Every single time you can pick up on ways to improve your game, good or bad there are lessons to be learned at every table

I Agree with gameogre. This will be a great way to learn more about how to DM. In the mean time I would suggest finding a way boost your character. You said that these rule interpretations are for everybody. If a martial can attack with double prof with two hands, then surely a caster could cast a spell with each and in a turn. You could even design your own broken homebrew subclass for the sorcerer. like maybe the ability to regain points when a creature you can see dies. Flavor is as you absorb their life energies as they pass on. With more sorc. points you could be really deadly at any level.If he doesn't go for it remember he said he has something in store for you as well, and if it's anything like what he did for the ranger i feel sorry for the monsters that run into you guys.


What you do is continue playing in this campaign. Multi-class into Warlock take about 2 or 3 levels and Warlock. To pick up the invocations Eldritch spear in agonizing blast. Soda Eldritch blast now has a range of 300 ft to add your Christmas on a fire to everything Beam. Pick up the feat spellsniper Turing your EB up to 600ft. Pick quicken and distance meta-magic options. Pick spell the following spells blink, counter spell, fireball,magic missile, greater invisibility. What you do is turn invisible quicken a EB for up to 4 beams. From 1200ft away. Then next turn quicken EB again then as action drop a fireball down. Then just rinse and repeat and if you really want to get crazy with the attack rolls find or craft a wand of warmage and switch out fire for scorching Ray. You can also take 2 more levels bringing you up to five levels in warlock to get one of those new invocation for the fiend pact warlock where it lets you to cast Fireball as a bonus action if you already cast Eldritch blast.

I like this idea a lot except i would go Hexblade pact instead. the Fiend invocation still cost you a spell slot. Hexblade lets you crit on a 19, deal extra CHA dmg, and heal when you kill. So turn one Greater Invisibility and and curse target. Turn two cast EB twice doing (1d10+CHA+CHA+PROF)*8 with a good chance to crit sense you're rolling with advantage. I have a Sorcerer 6/Warlock 14 blaster build i made that can pump out 208 dmg per turn consistently before you count crits that will probably happen. This could actually work well with the Ranger becuase you use EB to push all the targets together so he can reach more targets with his many attacks. To start go sorcerer3 then warlock 2, next take sorcerer to 6 and finish warlock off. Kicks into gear at PC lvl8 doing 64 dmg per turn. Even with 4 attacks i doubt the ranger will put out the much.

[Ataboiiwhynot]

He has rules that allow it to work with sorcerer, but it burns higher level spell slots and is very limited on how it can be done. He gets his benefits without having to burn any abilities.