Best Deity for a Paladin of Freedom?

[Palanan]

Which of the Pathfinder deities would be most appropriate for a paladin devoted to freeing the enslaved?

This will be someone who will fight slavers and oppressors directly when possible, and when faced with overwhelming odds will spend her own money to buy as many slaves out of freedom as possible. A blend of idealism and pragmatism, tempered by experience.

At first glance, it seems to be a choice between Iomedae and Sarenrae—but I don’t know the Pathfinder deities very well, and I’m happy to consider some lesser-known divine powers if they have a portfolio that involves freeing slaves and liberating the oppressed. I’m open to all official Paizo content, and I’d be especially interested in a source that discusses various deities’ attitudes towards slavery.

[Beowulf DW]

Milani, the Everbloom, is the patron of those that fight against oppression. Cayden Cailean is a good deity that fights for freedom. Desna is likely to take a dim view of slavery, as are Erastil and Torag.

[Waker]

It might sound silly, but Cayden Cailean might be the deity for you. He's CG, which is important for a Paladin of Freedom. And while most people think only of his association with alcohol, a big part of his following is based on freedom, both personal freedom and helping others. "Likewise, the act of fighting for freedom, both that of others and of oneself, is highly respected and honored; both liberators and chevaliers are welcome additions to the Lucky Drunk's faith" http://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Cayden_Cailean

[Gildedragon]

I'll third Cee-Cee
Fun, free spirited, martial oriented...
Like Ollie from 3.5 but Good

[legomaster00156]

Also going to advise Cayden Cailean. Milani is more about entire societal changes (in other words, revolutions), while Cayden is more about just doing good where and whenever you can.
That said, about buying slaves into freedom? Don't. If your GM handles this in any way realistically, then you're just funding the slavers' operations, which allows them to get even more slaves and sell them elsewhere.

[Gildedragon]

Also going to advise Cayden Cailean. Milani is more about entire societal changes (in other words, revolutions), while Cayden is more about just doing good where and whenever you can.
That said, about buying slaves out of freedom? Don't. If your GM handles this in any way realistically, then you're just funding the slavers' operations, which allows them to get even more slaves and sell them elsewhere.

Buying slaves wirh counterfeit coins, and promptly disguising everyone as you make your way out of town: very encouraged.

[Beowulf DW]

Also, Sarenrae might not be the best for a freer of slaves. She is the most powerful good deity, but she accepts slavery as practiced by some of her followers.

[Xethik]

When you say "Paladin of Freedom", do you mean the 3.5 Paladin variant? Or a Pathfinder Paladin with a focus on freedom?

I believe in Golarion, your alignment needs to be one-step away from your deity (if you have one) as a Paladin. This is not a Pathfinder Rule, but a setting rule. Or, it is at least in Pathfinder Society. Might be worth checking with your GM.

But yes, assuming you can worship a CG god, Milani and Cayden both work great. I feel like Cayden has had less-and-less focus on the freedom aspect as of late, with Milani becoming a more prominent deity whose larger focus is revolution and freedom from tyranny and slavery. But both should work.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Beowulf DW
Milani, the Everbloom, is the patron of those that fight against oppression.

…becoming a more prominent deity whose larger focus is revolution and freedom from tyranny and slavery.

This fits extremely well with what I had in mind, thanks.

Not sure about how to work the alignment, since my paladin concept just feels naturally LG, without overdoing the details.


Originally Posted by Waker
It might sound silly, but Cayden Cailean might be the deity for you.

Thanks, and I did see that he has “freedom” in his portfolio…but the problem is, my paladin just can’t bring herself to take him seriously.

Honestly, the part about doing good where you can, when you can really fits with her concept; but devoting herself to a celestial lush just doesn’t sit well. The guy is just too much of a goofball.


Originally Posted by legomaster00156
That said, about buying slaves into freedom? Don't. If your GM handles this in any way realistically, then you're just funding the slavers' operations, which allows them to get even more slaves and sell them elsewhere.

It’s certainly a difficult moral question, but my paladin would answer this by saying that the people she buys out of slavery will be free, rather than remaining in slavery for the rest of their lives.

Remember, idealism merged with pragmatism. Sometimes you have to take the small victories, and walk away while you can.


Originally Posted by Xethik
When you say "Paladin of Freedom", do you mean the 3.5 Paladin variant? Or a Pathfinder Paladin with a focus on freedom?

I’m aiming for both at once, if I can get the mechanics to mesh.

The 3.5 variant is kinda meh, without much going for it besides the name and the alignment, but I’d like to work it in if I can. On the Pathfinder side, I’m thinking either the Divine Defender or Sacred Servant archetypes, although if I go with Milani then there could be alignment issues again.

[Psyren]

I think a sober Caydenite would be a fun concept myself. Someone who is all about the camaraderie but wants to make sure everyone gets home safely. I have actual friends like this.

But yeah, if you don't like Cayden then someone like Milani or Desna is the next best thing.

[Sayt]

First call for me would be Milani as well, with Arshea as a second depending if you're going more for the self expressive freedom angle.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Sayt
First call for me would be Milani as well….

Yup, the more I read about Milani, the better she seems as a likely patroness. Just that darn alignment gap to deal with.


Originally Posted by Sayt
…with Arshea as a second depending if you're going more for the self expressive freedom angle.

Huh. I’ve never even heard of this one before.

But she’s pretty much the opposite of where my paladin is, on a whole range of issues.

[Psyren]

What about Desna? Big on freedom, CG, not a lush...

[legomaster00156]

It’s certainly a difficult moral question, but my paladin would answer this by saying that the people she buys out of slavery will be free, rather than remaining in slavery for the rest of their lives.

Remember, idealism merged with pragmatism. Sometimes you have to take the small victories, and walk away while you can.
This displays a lack of sense of supply and demand. Clearly, if more slaves are being purchased, there is more demand for slaves. This means that more slaves must be imported/captured/kidnapped/etc., and the cycle begins anew, with a larger and larger demand for every batch, and more and more money being poured into the slavers' pockets.

[Waker]

Man, everyone keeps making fun of Caiden for being a lush. He doesn't have a problem with drinking, if anything he's too good at it.
Seriously though, while drinking is obviously part of the Church and it's followers, getting sloppy drunk is actually frowned upon.

[Gildedragon]

Man, everyone keeps making fun of Caiden for being a lush. He doesn't have a problem with drinking, if anything he's too good at it.
Seriously though, while drinking is obviously part of the Church and it's followers, getting sloppy drunk is actually frowned upon.

I do love his apotheosis: ie getting so drunk one forgets the single most significant moment of his life.
At some point during the night he went to folk "hey ya'll wanna see something cool" and proceeded to get across a bottomless hole.
And probably then thought inside the cathedral there was bound to be more to drink.
He probably talked to the masonry "guys I'm OK. I'm OK... No I'm not. Hold my hair"

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Psyren
What about Desna? Big on freedom, CG, not a lush...

Hmm. Desna seems to be more focused on the wandering aspects of freedom, sort of the goddess of footloose and fancy-free.

Her main emphasis seems to be on travel, and I could see a paladin of Desna devoted to making overland passage safe in a region, or even leading an expedition to clear and reopen an ancient and long-abandoned imperial highway. That could be a cool concept in itself, but not quite what I’m going for here.

Also, Desna is the same alignment as Milani, so if there’s a hard and fast rule about hewing to a patron’s alignment, that’s still an issue for my LG paladin.


Originally Posted by Legomaster00156
This displays a lack of sense of supply and demand. Clearly, if more slaves are being purchased, there is more demand for slaves. This means that more slaves must be imported/captured/kidnapped/etc., and the cycle begins anew, with a larger and larger demand for every batch, and more and more money being poured into the slavers' pockets.

My paladin would point out that you’re assuming all slaves have been captured by professional slavers, when in her experience this isn’t the case.

In her experience, many slaves are the spoils of conquest, rather than part of a dedicated commercial operation; the slaves are just one more form of loot carried off by a conquering army. Their enslavement is completely dependent on the fortunes of war. She can’t fight an army single-handed, but she can buy the freedom of some of the slaves, since the conquering soldiers don’t care what form the loot is in—and they prefer to trade the slaves for cash, since the cash is easier to carry and doesn’t need feeding.

Those soldiers aren’t going to use the cash for a commercial slaving operation; they’re going to spend it individually on any number of things. Meanwhile, the slaves which might have been sold to crueler masters are instead set free by the paladin, who will do her best to see them settled somewhere safe. She's not supporting a commercial enterprise; she's redeeming captives in the best way she can, given the circumstances and the world she lives in.

[Sayt]

This displays a lack of sense of supply and demand. Clearly, if more slaves are being purchased, there is more demand for slaves. This means that more slaves must be imported/captured/kidnapped/etc., and the cycle begins anew, with a larger and larger demand for every batch, and more and more money being poured into the slavers' pockets.

There is a demand for labour, and a moral bankruptcy of A) not wanting to pay for it and B) treating sentients as beasts of burden.

[legomaster00156]

I'm not trying to say that slavery is either a good way nor the only way to acquire labor. :smallconfused: I'm saying that if people are buying slaves, evidently people want more slaves, and a market that allows them will indulge that apparent demand.
That said, if in this world slavery is primarily a result of conquest rather than an actual slave trade (even though in real life, these two were often concurrent), then I can see buying slaves into freedom potentially being a good choice.

[Florian]

Also, Desna is the same alignment as Milani, so if there’s a hard and fast rule about hewing to a patron’s alignment, that’s still an issue for my LG paladin.

Yes and no. Yes, it is a hard rule, no, there´re so many exceptions that any gm can green-light it.
For example, either venerating the Godclaw pantheon or having the Pact Servant trait would allow you a LG Paladin of Asmodeus (of all things). Or the Empyreal Pantheon trait let´s you prep normally forbidden spells in the Law/Chaos axis.

[Psyren]

Also, Desna is the same alignment as Milani, so if there’s a hard and fast rule about hewing to a patron’s alignment, that’s still an issue for my LG paladin.


She still hates slavery though

But how are you LG as a Paladin of Freedom? Wasn't the whole point of that philosophy changing over to CG?

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Psyren
But how are you LG as a Paladin of Freedom? Wasn't the whole point of that philosophy changing over to CG?

I know, I know.

I love the concept of the Paladin of Freedom, and it seems to fit very well with the idea of fighting slavery and oppression; but the character remains more LG than anything else. She’s stubborn that way.

Most likely I’ll end up dispensing with the Paladin of Freedom variant, at least in terms of the mechanics, since apart from the alignment change there’s just not much there. There’s not much helpful for this paladin in particular—she doesn’t really need Bluff, she feels no need for Protection from Law. The Aura of Resolve is probably the best of the variant’s features, but it’s not worth the hassle.

But even if I go pure Pathfinder, the alignment issue remains, since the Sacred Servant archetype has some specific requirements. In that case the paladin’s being LG is fine, it’s the distance from Milani that causes the issue.

[Psyren]

I love the concept of the Paladin of Freedom, and it seems to fit very well with the idea of fighting slavery and oppression; but the character remains more LG than anything else. She’s stubborn that way.

For the record, LG can fight slavery and oppression just fine. They just care more about how they fight it, and aren't willing to resort to absolutely any means necessary. If you think a regular paladin would be okay with slavery or would do nothing about it when the opportunity arises simply because it's legal, you'd be mistaken.

It sounds like you're conceptually fine just being a quintessential paladin, in which case Iomedae is the obvious choice.

Also, Golarion uses the 1-step rule. The only time you must equal their alignment is with very specific things like the Exalted PrC.