Templates that give extra general feats? How many general feats are worth 1 LA?

[Endarire]

Greetings, all!

I was curious what official templates exist (even in magazines) that give extra general feats. For example, take a level adjustment of 1 and get 4 bonus feats.

How many general feats are worth a level adjustment of 1? (Assume LA buyoff is in effect and this template is taken at level 1/character creation.) I'm leaning toward 3-5 because of other spiffy templates of LA1 like Half-Minotaur and Necropolitan. (Necropolitan is effectively 1 LA because it requires death and revival, which is most likely means losing a level.)

[Ellrin]

Greetings, all!

I was curious what official templates exist (even in magazines) that give extra general feats. For example, take a level adjustment of 1 and get 4 bonus feats.

How many general feats are worth a level adjustment of 1? (Assume LA buyoff is in effect and this template is taken at level 1/character creation.) I'm leaning toward 3-5 because of other spiffy templates of LA1 like Half-Minotaur and Necropolitan. (Necropolitan is effectively 1 LA because it requires death and revival, which is most likely means losing a level.)

I mean, maybe I'm just easy to please, but I'd say a template that didn't have any significant drawbacks for your build and only offered you one feat would be a worthwhile tradeoff for a +1 LA that you could buy off, under the conditions that a significant portion of the campaign would take place after the buy-off level, and that you aren't playing a +2 LA (or higher) race to begin with. You're basically getting free stuff, and all it takes is playing XP catch up for a few levels? Sign me up.

[ATHATH]

The Blooded One template gives at least one feat, IIRC.

[Dagroth]

Greetings, all!

I was curious what official templates exist (even in magazines) that give extra general feats. For example, take a level adjustment of 1 and get 4 bonus feats.

How many general feats are worth a level adjustment of 1? (Assume LA buyoff is in effect and this template is taken at level 1/character creation.) I'm leaning toward 3-5 because of other spiffy templates of LA1 like Half-Minotaur and Necropolitan. (Necropolitan is effectively 1 LA because it requires death and revival, which is most likely means losing a level.)

Half-Minotaur is widely considered to be broken. It should be LA +2 like the Half-Ogre in Races of Destiny.

That aside, very few templates offer Feats... and even the ones that do only offer things like "Blind Fighting", "Dodge" or "Weapon Finesse".

Its not official, but there's a 3rd party book out there called "The Book of Templates" that gives some fairly decent ones. There are 2 versions, one for 3.0 and one updated for 3.5. The one for 3.5 is a bit better balanced.

But if you're at a table that things Half-Minotaur for LA +1 is perfectly fine, then the Book of Templates for 3.0 is probably fine. Get the "Heightened" template for LA +2

[Endarire]

In terms of balance, some classes even give bonus feats in broad enough categories that they may as well be general feats.

Blooded One (Unapproachable East 60) only gives Combat Reflexes as a preset feat.

[Inevitability]

Vampire gives five feats of varying power.

I think two feats at +1 LA would be balanced, personally.

[shaikujin]

In Savage Species, the guideline is that 2 or more bonus feats would increase LA by 1.

Of course, taking this to the extreme, a custom template which gives 1 trillion bonus feats is also 1 LA only.

So a more sane interpretation is that every 2 bonus feats is worth +1 LA.

[Celestia]

It depends entirely on what feats they are. A template that gave Skill Focus twelve times wouldn't even be worth one LA.

[weckar]

Half-Minotaur is widely considered to be broken. It should be LA +2 like the Half-Ogre in Races of Destiny.

That aside, very few templates offer Feats... and even the ones that do only offer things like "Blind Fighting", "Dodge" or "Weapon Finesse".
If it offers anything else, I'll gladly pocket any of those. The latter two are common enough prereqs, and the first comes up... not all the time, but plenty.

[Anthrowhale]

Gheden offers 3 bonus feats (Endurance, Toughness, Die-hard) with LA+1.

That's minor though: also, net stat modifier -4, immune fear, confusion, nonlethal, stun, energy drain, death by massive damage, darkvision, 50% fortification, -8(!) to fine motor control skill checks and half-turnable imposing -4 to saves/skills/attacks.

[weckar]

With all those advantages and drawbacks you're almost making it sound as if Gheden are balanced :annoyed:

[SangoProduction]

With all those advantages and drawbacks you're almost making it sound as if Gheden are balanced :annoyed:

What's wrong with Gheden? I mean, they seem kinda on the weak side.

[Thurbane]

It depends entirely on what feats they are. A template that gave Skill Focus twelve times wouldn't even be worth one LA.

Unless Dark Chaos Shuffle is in play...then I'd gladly suck up +1 LA (especially if buyoff is allowed) for a dozen bonus feats.

[weckar]

What's wrong with Gheden? I mean, they seem kinda on the weak side.They are a valid target for anything providing Regeneration, with them not actually being undead. I'll let you take it from there.

[Celestia]

Unless Dark Chaos Shuffle is in play...then I'd gladly suck up +1 LA (especially if buyoff is allowed) for a dozen bonus feats.
Balance the floor, not the ceiling.

[Anthrowhale]

They are a valid target for anything providing Regeneration, with them not actually being undead. I'll let you take it from there.

There are actually two ways to take advantage of Gheden. One is via something like Troll-blooded for regeneration (in conjunction with nonlethal immunity) while the other is via the Delay Death spell (in conjunction with Diehard).

[SangoProduction]

There are actually two ways to take advantage of Gheden. One is via something like Troll-blooded for regeneration (in conjunction with nonlethal immunity) while the other is via the Delay Death spell (in conjunction with Diehard).

Both of which capable of being done by humans, at lower LA? With a temporary level drop, rather than LA, a human can become a full undead. I mean, I'm not saying Necropolitan is balanced, but if you were going to do something like that, then there are better ways than going with a half measure with LA.

[Anthrowhale]

Both of which capable of being done by humans, at lower LA? With a temporary level drop, rather than LA, a human can become a full undead. I mean, I'm not saying Necropolitan is balanced, but if you were going to do something like that, then there are better ways than going with a half measure with LA.

Honestly, I think Gheden is ok for LA+1 as long as it isn't comboed for immunity to damage at early levels.

Undead (a) forbids regeneration (no con score = regeneration does not work) (b) creates a no-save-you-die vulnerability via greater turning. The only way I know to get immunity to damage at ECL 1 is via human Pugilist 1 taking Troll-blooded. This approach is somewhat more sketchy since the relevant Pugilist ability is oddly worded.

[Thurbane]

Balance the floor, not the ceiling.

I used to think DCS was hopelessly OP, but really, it all depends.

If you're rorting the loophole using an Elf's racial feats, that's one thing. Using it as a "fix" to swap out crappy bonus feats from a class that you didn't really want in the first place, that's another (IMHO).

I mean, the re-training rules and Psychic Reformation kind of fill a similar role, only DCS is more powerful and versatile. But most definitely abusable - I agree there.