Subclasses: What Can You Envision?

[Shadow_in_the_Mist]

The subclass; 5th edition's take on PF's Archetypes and maybe a dash of 4e's Paragon Paths, but mandatory and manifesting much earlier. Although I'm sure it was probably a controversial change somewhere, this is D&D we're talking about here, I actually really like the subclass mechanic. It's done its best to maintain some of the diversity and flavor that 3e tried to achieve with feats and 4e through powers and specializations, and in some fields it's done pretty well. Hell, there's a reason why we got months worth of Unearthed Arcana that were all about adding new subclasses to the current classes, and there have been other shots at it since UA for 5e was a thing.

But, WoTC only puts out so many at a time, and I'm curious: what ideas do you, the fans, have for potential routes the various classes could go towards further differentiating themselves? What subclasses can you imgine, or which you really hope WoTC does at one point?

[Shadow_in_the_Mist]

Now, I know that maybe I should have put these in the opening post, but I figured that it was somehow more... ethical? To put these into a separate post. You'll notice that these are pretty much all caster based: firstly, the casters of D&D have always been far more interesting to me than the martials, save in 4e. Secondly, the martial subclasses in 5e already seem to fill just about every damn niche we could possibly hope for with a martial class. We've got two different kinds of scout (Fighter/Rogue), three different "knightly" subclasses for the Fighter (cavalier, knight, samurai), we've got the Sherlock Holmes style investigator to go with the Moriarty-inspired mastermind, we've got the monster hunter... really, what's left?

Artificer:
* Runesmith - I started my own thread about this idea, so I can't deny a certain bias in regards my interest to it, but, really, I think it's a worthwhile shot. The Artificer's entire schtick is that it's a fantasy gadgetteer, something touched upon by its two subclasses so far. Alchemists are a more "pre-prepared" version of wizards (to the point there was a "potion caster" wizard kit called the Eremite back in AD&D), relying on their pre-prepared potions and chemical compounds and other such semi-scientific gunk to help out on the battlefield. The Gunsmith, meanwhile, is closer to the "tech" side of the magitek equation, but still fits the general archetype. The Runesmith, then, would be a swing to the more magical side of the Artificer's creation; something that relies more on overt magic or on magical items, but still is predominantly an Int-based support class. Maybe it'd work better as a melee specialist in comparison to the more ranged-focused Gunsmith, I don't know, but I do know that I like the idea of a guy with a rune-etched staff nullifying an enemy's spell and then throwing it right back at them.

Barbarian:
* Bloodrager - Firstly, yes, the name was stolen from Pathfinder, and I apologize for that. The Barbarian's an interesting character in 5e because they've still surreptitiously kept a lot of the more "mystical" flavoring they gave it in 4e. Now, while I'm not a huge fan of many PF classes, the Bloodrager, which is essentially a Sorcerer-Barbarian hybrid that is driven into battle rage by surges of raw magic inside of them, strong enough to physically mutate it in order to express its inner rage, has some pretty cool base ideas. Now, I don't know if this works better as a subclass or even a whole new class, but I certainly wouldn't mind seeing it.

Sorcerer:
* Arcanist - One of the things I love about the Sorcerer is its whole "born to magic" fluff. It's awesome, it's what makes it different from the Warlock & Wizard, and yet... it's not quite as represented as it should be. There's no "naturally talented at magic" sorcerous origin thus far; oh, one can try to argue the Wild Mage, but it's got a chaos flair and flavoring that just makes it mesh poorly with that "natural prodigy" flavor. It's all about someone who can't control their inner magic, not who, say, was born to a dynasty of wizards and so finds magic comes as naturally to them as breathing. I'm not sure what abilities to actually give this sort of Sorcerer, in all honesty. Expanded spell lists, an increased pool of sorcery points and, at 18th level, Magic Resistance where you can regain sorcery points if you shake off the magical effect all come to mind.
* Voidbringer - We've got a fair few official Sorcerers, thus far. We got Wild Magic, Dragon Magic, Storm & Classical Elementalism, we got Angelic/Divine Heritage (Favored Soul), we got illusion/darkness-based Shadow Magic... but, the one thing we don't have is a Necromantic Sorcerer. I admit I'm not personally sure how to make this guy stand out compared to the Necromancer Wizard, but, we have seen it done before. The Dread Necromancer in 3.5 was essentially a Necromantic Sorcerer, and there's thematic room in D&D for a guy who is simply full of necrotic energy and can only barely control it, right?
* Cosmic Soul - I'll be honest; I think the principle of "star magic", of magic drawn from the stars, moons and suns, is an awesome theme that D&D has never really explored. Beyond the Cosmic Soul Sorcerer in 4th edition's Arcane Power and the Star Pact Warlock in 4e's PHB, can anyone name any cases of this theme being used? So, I really think that this is something 5e should rectify; moreover, I think there's enough cognitive room that Sorcerers, Warlocks and Wizards can all share it. A Cosmic Soul Sorcerer would be intimately connected to one or more celestial bodies, drawing power from the stars with which its soul aligns. The 4e version, where it could switch between different alignments (Sun/Moon/Stars), which had different associated boons and effects on its spells, was awesome, and I think it could be replicated in 5e to some extent.

Warlock:
* Dark Patron - Ironically, despite this being an obvious thing to include, it was 4e's first new Pact after all, we don't have this darkness-manipulating warlock yet. Underdark Adventurers gave us a light-based one instead. Which, admittedly, isn't bad, but still, I want my shadow-weaving umbral witch-priest back.
* Sorcerer-King Patron - One of the many things I loved about 4e was its reinventions of old classes in ways that made sense. Thus, the 4e Templar, traditionally a form of "evil Paladin", became a Warlock drawing its magic from one of the Sorcerer-Kings. I would love to see this come back when 5e finally takes us back to the blasted wastes of Athas.
* Dark Mother Patron- This is something I've tried to tackle on my own for ages. There are so many weird "mother of monsters" spirits and dark fertility gods across fantasy; Slaanesh, Lamashtu, Shub-Niggurath, Echidna and others I can't hope to recall, that this "antihero healer" warlock just seems a natural fit for a more dark fantasy or pulpy style setting.
* Angelic Patron - There was a Scarred Lands sourcebook, can't remember which one, that had a beautiful story about a self-sacrificing hero who sells his soul to a "fiend" for sorcerous powers, which he used to do much good, only to learn on his deathbed as he prepared to suffer for eternity in hell that his patron had been an angel all along. After all, why should the powers of darkness be the only ones to offer a hand? With this logic, I'd love to see a more Celestial/Angelic patron added to the Warlock's list, and it's about the only major extraplanar mojo-granter that WoTC has left to cover - they did Fiends, Faeries and Eldritch Abominations right out of the corebook, after all.
* Lifebringer Patron - I can't really explain this one beyond the fact that the Warlock has always seemed a perfect fit for the "witchdoctor" archetype. Similar to Angelic Patrons, there have to be healing/nurturing/life-bringing/whatever spirits and entities out there who are willing to empower individuals to protect their chosen people with a healing touch from one hand and a fistful of death in the other. Hell, the Irish god Dagdha had a magical club that could kill with one end and restore life with the other, it's not that crazy, right?
* Doomspeaker Patron - Warlocks go together with both curses and with strange, apocalypse-seeking abominations like peanut butter and chocolate. A Doomspeaker Warlock might be a crazed suicidal nihilist, a cursed soul, or desperately trying to harness an apocalyptic power to annihilate some force of evil, but either way, it'd be an entropy-wielding monster that really excels in the field of tearing things apart.
* Primordial Patron - The Archomentals, both good and evil, have been around for a long time. 4e just gave them a real chance to shine with such incredible creatures as Mual-Tar the Thunder Serpent, Piranoth the World Mover, and Iktha-Lau the Ever Empty. Archomentals have a long tradition of offering their own "weird" flavor of magic to loyal minions and witch-priests, and to me that sounds just perfect for a Warlock subclass. I mean, come on, what's uncool about drawing upon the powers of a continent-sized dragon-storm to shatter enemies with thunder, lightning, wind and hail?
* Great Beast Patron - I grew up on a lot of pulpy fantasy-horror stuff. Weird wilderness gods and savage nature deities like Jhebbal-Sag have long struck a chord with me that the Druid just... doesn't hit. I'd love an option for warlocks to offer themselves to such creatures. Maybe gain a beast companion out of the deal.
* Star Patron - I'll be honest; I think the principle of "star magic", of magic drawn from the stars, moons and suns, is an awesome theme that D&D has never really explored. Beyond the Cosmic Soul Sorcerer in 4th edition's Arcane Power and the Star Pact Warlock in 4e's PHB, can anyone name any cases of this theme being used? So, I really think that this is something 5e should rectify; moreover, I think there's enough cognitive room that Sorcerers, Warlocks and Wizards can all share it. I know a lot of people will think of this as already handled by the Great Old One Patron, given the 4e Warlock's Star Pact was a sort of Lovecraftian Deity and Cosmic Magic hybrid in terms of theme. But, even if 4e, there was room for playing a more "pure star magic" sort of Warlock, and I think it can be done in 5e. I'd probably go with more of a space & time theme to this Patron, more teleportation and time-hinkery than anything.

Wizard:
* Chronomancer - Time magic is, I'll be honest, a risky prospect. It can easily become overpowered or overly complicated to run. A Chronomancer would be a hard thing to get right... but, I believe it's been
* Elementalist - As with all arcanists, Wizards are naturally suited for the idea of drawing magic from the elements. With how much 5e makes them shine under the subclass system, I know an elementalist would be far greater than the AD&D version that appeared in the original Tome of Magic. Of course, as I've done 6 elementalist archetypes (Earth/Wood/Metal/Fire/Water/Air) and think I did pretty well on them, I'm kind of biased.
* Space Mage - I'll be honest; I think the principle of "star magic", of magic drawn from the stars, moons and suns, is an awesome theme that D&D has never really explored. Beyond the Cosmic Soul Sorcerer in 4th edition's Arcane Power and the Star Pact Warlock in 4e's PHB, can anyone name any cases of this theme being used? So, I really think that this is something 5e should rectify; moreover, I think there's enough cognitive room that Sorcerers, Warlocks and Wizards can all share it. When I think a "Cosmic Wizard", I probably think of Warhammer Fantasy and it's Lore of the Heavens spells - a blend of "space/sky themed" evocation (crashing meteors, lightning bolts, blasts of fire from the sun, freezing spells to invoke the chill of space), air elementalism, teleportation and "offensive divination"; cursing foes and the like. I'm not sure how a 5e version would be best suited to go, but there's surely plenty of thematic room to build from. Besides, can you really say it's impossible to see wizards studying the movements of the stars and learning to draw into the powers emanating from that celestial pattern or the individual bodies themselves?

[Ralanr]

Give me a warlord but make it a paladin subclass that loses spells and refluff the auras to be just really charismatic.

[xen]

Some really cool ideas. But I want my full caster Artificer in a high magic Ebberon setting. The current version doesn't do it for me.

[lunaticfringe]

Warlock Patrons: Genies, Seyhrain (Animal Lords)
Sorcerer Bloodlines: Elemental/Genies, Fey, Fiend, Aberration
Cleric: Elemental Domains


I'd like to see Thrall of Demon/Disciple of Devil Archetypes spread across all Classes, like Thrall of Zuggtmoy Druid. An Occular Adept Paladin or Warlock would be neat.

[Misterwhisper]

Fighter: Duelist

Level 3: Live by the Blade

While you are not wearing armor, not using a shield and you are not using a weapon two handed your ac your ac is calculated as 12 + your Dexterity modifier + your proficiency bonus.

Level 3: Die by the Blade:

While you are wielding a weapon with the finesse property, you may use your reaction to make a melee weapon attack with a finesse weapon against an opponent that misses you with a melee attack within 5 ft.

Level 7: Cut from the air

While you are wielding a weapon with the finesse property you may use your reaction when hit by a ranged weapon attack to cut the weapon from the air. When hit use you reaction and roll an attack, if your attack roll is higher than the attack roll made by the opponent you take no damage and the attack misses.

Level 10: Dueling Style

If you are wielding a finesse weapon in one hand and no other weapons you may add +1 to your to hit and damage with that weapon.

If you are wielding 2 weapons at once, all finesse weapons are also considered to have the Light property.

Level 15: Quicker than the Eye

Each round you may give up any number of your melee attack used during your attack action in order to make a number of extra reactions equal to the number of attack given up + 1.

Level 18:

Parry

If you are wielding a finesse weapon and you are struck in combat by a melee attack you may use your reaction to subtract an amount of damage from the attack equal to your weapon damage die + your Dexterity modifier + 1/2 your level, if the damage is reduced to 0, the attack misses.

[Mortis_Elrod]

* Star Patron - I'll be honest; I think the principle of "star magic", of magic drawn from the stars, moons and suns, is an awesome theme that D&D has never really explored. Beyond the Cosmic Soul Sorcerer in 4th edition's Arcane Power and the Star Pact Warlock in 4e's PHB, can anyone name any cases of this theme being used? So, I really think that this is something 5e should rectify; moreover, I think there's enough cognitive room that Sorcerers, Warlocks and Wizards can all share it. I know a lot of people will think of this as already handled by the Great Old One Patron, given the 4e Warlock's Star Pact was a sort of Lovecraftian Deity and Cosmic Magic hybrid in terms of theme. But, even if 4e, there was room for playing a more "pure star magic" sort of Warlock, and I think it can be done in 5e. I'd probably go with more of a space & time theme to this Patron, more teleportation and time-hinkery than anything.


The Star patron actually was a UA. Complete with a tailor made pact boon option. you can find it here (https://media.wizards.com/2016/dnd/downloads/UA%20Non-Divine%20Faithful%20SFG.pdf) but you might be disappointed. It wasn't very.....interesting for me.

[solidork]

I want some kind of Fey subclass that revolves around oaths. I also want a subclass that is based around creating a special relationship between two members of the party.

[TheUser]

Ranger Archetype: Stalker
EDIT: Please note this is not a revised ranger archetype but rather to be used with the base class in the PHB.

Level 3: Expertise in Stealth and Perception if already proficient. If not, gain proficiency. Sneak Attack +1d6.

Level 7: Hide as a bonus action. If another feature allows you to hide as a bonus action you may treat any roll as a 10 when making a Stealth check. Sneak Attack +2d6 (this represents total sneak attack dice gained, not an additional 2 dice)

Level 11: You gain the eyesight of an eagle. You can see up to 1 mile away with no difficulty. able to discern even fine details as though looking at something no more than 100 feet away from you. Additionally, dim light doesn't impose disadvantage on your Wisdom (Perception) checks. Sneak Attack +3d6

Level 15: Whenever you make an attack roll at advantage and are hidden, if both dice would hit instead treat the attack as a critical strike. This feature can only occur once per turn. Sneak Attack +4d6

[GM_3826]

Besides the Duelist (which another poster had already listed)...

While obviously we shouldn't bring back concepts that don't really work or overlap with something already in 5e, I'd like to see a couple more of the Unearthed Arcana variants from 3rd Edition as subclasses. I would however ask that they be altered: it doesn't make sense to copy the concept entirely.
* A Domain similar to the Cloistered Cleric could be implemented: one that gave up the use of weapons and armor in exchange for further emphasis on divine magic. Perhaps the Peace Domain would work.
* A Bard College that saved and sang hymns would work perfectly, and harken back to the Divine Bard from 3rd Edition.
* A Fighter Archetype with the same concept as the Thug from 3rd Edition would work well. I imagine that instead of it being a more lightly armored Fighter that it'd be an incredibly skilled brawler who can and will fight dirty. This would also allow players to use improvised weapons without taking the Tavern Brawler feat, which I can imagine that they would love! Maybe it could have some basic hand to hand combat ability, too.
Here's a couple more ideas I stole from TVTropes' "Fantasy Character Classes" page:
* A pseudo-casting Rogue Archetype who uses shadows as a weapon.
* A Ranger Archetype/Conclave/subclass of another Class who specializes in laying traps.
* A Bard College whose dancing ability enhances their magic spells.
And from the How To Give A Character Superpowers page (this is specifically for the Sorcerer and Warlock)
* A Sorcerer Bloodline (or Warlock Pact, judging by the Hexblade equivalent this edition) who gains their magic from something like a substance or artifact. Bonus points if a sidebar (or perhaps the entire subclass) references the old D&D setting, Red Steel. Of course, this could easily be a Wild Magic Sorcerer, but why not give players the option of trying something different?
* A Sorcerer Bloodline who possesses their powers as the result of being the reincarnation of a legendary magician.
And... that's about it. I have no more ideas of places where I can steal from, sadly.

[DragonSorcererX]

Barbarian - Dragonfire Rager (Or something like that): Basically a version of the Eldritch Knight but for Barbarians and that uses Sorcerer Spellcasting and gives you the ability to concentrate ONLY in spells granted by this class while raging, and preferably limited to Dragonborns, Kobolds and whatever dragonblooded races that may be updated to 5e in the future.

Mystic - An Immortal Order that actually works even if you aren't a Mountain Dwarf...

Sorcerer - Origins for EVERY kind of magical thing!

[Vaz]

Rogue Archetype; Shadowmaster
- It gets the ability to use self illusion spells and teleports, and gets the ability to make Bonus Action Dimension Doors as it progresses through the levels, and Extra Attack; perhaps Extra Attack limited to after the Dimension Door.

[Ninja-Radish]

Circle of Swords Druid: A Druid who can wear Heavy Armor and gets Martial Weapon proficiency. Loses the ability to Wild Shape into Beasts but gains the ability to Wild Shape into humanoid creatures, keeping stats the same but gaining that humanoid creature's special abilities (kinda like Alter Self, but more versatile). Also gaining a second attack at 6th level.

Conclave of the Beast: Ranger that gets the ability to transform himself and mimic beasts. Such as giving himself claws, natural armor, gills or wings.

A 5e version of the Battlemind as a Mystic Order would be fantastic as well.

For the most part though, I think they've done pretty much all they can with subclasses. It's just not a very flexible mechanic. I'd like to see more base classes myself. I'd love to see 5e versions of the Swordmage, Warlord and Warden from 4e.

[Ninja-Radish]

Barbarian - Dragonfire Rager (Or something like that): Basically a version of the Eldritch Knight but for Barbarians and that uses Sorcerer Spellcasting and gives you the ability to concentrate ONLY in spells granted by this class while raging, and preferably limited to Dragonborns, Kobolds and whatever dragonblooded races that may be updated to 5e in the future.

Mystic - An Immortal Order that actually works even if you aren't a Mountain Dwarf...

Sorcerer - Origins for EVERY kind of magical thing!

About the Immortal, I am so in agreement with you. I have no idea why they took away the armor and weapon proficiencies and gave them that terrible natural armor instead. They basically destroyed the cool Psychic Warrior vibe they had going on and made it more into a psychic monk. Just awful.

[Ralanr]

About the Immortal, I am so in agreement with you. I have no idea why they took away the armor and weapon proficiencies and gave them that terrible natural armor instead. They basically destroyed the cool Psychic Warrior vibe they had going on and made it more into a psychic monk. Just awful.

Yeah I was looking it over today and honestly I just didn't get it. The class would have to go really MAD if you wanted to use a strength build.

It seemed like the better warrior option was the avatar order, which frankly kinda bums me out.

Maybe I should stop trying to see these as bringing a type of Battlemind back.

[Sception]

Artificer: Corspe Crafter. Half Frankenstein, half Pale Master, you create undead prostheses for yourself (and maybe your party), leading up to construction of a flesh golem sort of creature in place of the artificer's usual pet. Instead of the boomstick/bag o tricks you get different upgrades & prosthetics that can be applied either to yourself or to your flesh golem construct pet. Which upgrades/prostheses are selected and where they are applied allow you to either be a powerful monster yourself with a supporting undead pet like a familiar, or instead you could be a weaker scientist guy with a more powerful monster providing more of your combat functionality.

Cleric: Undeath domain. Clerics were once the masters of undead creation & control style necromancy, even more so than Necromancer wizards, but in 5e that's at best an ancillary ability for clerics. Even the DMG's death domain really doesn't do anything for the concept. As such, there's wide open conceptual space for a cleric domain/subclass focusing on creation & control of the undead. Steal the channel divinity from the Oathbreaker, the HP buff from the Necromancer, and you're pretty much good to go. Alternatively, go the master of shrouds route and focus on spells or abilities that summon spectral undead & manipulate shadows and souls.

Sorcerer: Vampire Bloodline, with metamagic allowing you to heal when you deal spell damage & abilities mimicking classic vampire powers like flight, shape change, etc.

Fighter: Deathknight. Fighter archetype that steals the soul energy of those they kill to use as resources to spend on abilities tied to their signature semi-animate bonecraft armor and weapons.

Walock: Shadowcaster Pact Boon revolving around animating their own shadow as an independent undead entity to serve as a conduit for their magic and a go-between to their patron.

Dirgecaster Bard

Ghost-Possessed Barbarian

etc


Basically, give me a explicitly necromantic / undead aligned subclass for every single existing class. Right now the theme is basically limited to wizards, paladins, & mystics, but I want to have the option to play a spooky necromancer no matter what class might best fit my party's mechanical needs.

[Ninja-Radish]

Yeah I was looking it over today and honestly I just didn't get it. The class would have to go really MAD if you wanted to use a strength build.

It seemed like the better warrior option was the avatar order, which frankly kinda bums me out.

Maybe I should stop trying to see these as bringing a type of Battlemind back.

I hear ya, though I wouldn't count out the Avatar. With Psionic Weapon and Mantle of Courage they make pretty damn good psychic warriors. I'm playing one right now and it's alot of fun.

[Ralanr]

I hear ya, though I wouldn't count out the Avatar. With Psionic Weapon and Mantle of Courage they make pretty damn good psychic warriors. I'm playing one right now and it's alot of fun.

I might try them eventually. But right now I want to get battlemaster fighter off of my checklist.

I'm honestly surprised I haven't played one yet.

[Cybren]

The subclass; 5th edition's take on PF's Archetypes and maybe a dash of 4e's Paragon Paths,

Gonna stop you right there

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_alternative_Dungeons_%26_Dragons_classes#2 nd_edition_kits

[GM_3826]

Gonna stop you right there

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_alternative_Dungeons_%26_Dragons_classes#2 nd_edition_kits

Yeah, subclasses are vaguely like kits, but since there's no "vanilla" class they're not exactly the same. It's the difference between multiple games in one and a game with with several mods.

[T0kumei]

Yeah I was looking it over today and honestly I just didn't get it. The class would have to go really MAD if you wanted to use a strength build.

It seemed like the better warrior option was the avatar order, which frankly kinda bums me out.

Maybe I should stop trying to see these as bringing a type of Battlemind back.

It's a shame I wanted a 5ed version of my old battlemind, I understand the inspiration which is the 2nd ed egotist but I'm still disappointed.

[Findulidas]

Some really cool ideas. But I want my full caster Artificer in a high magic Ebberon setting. The current version doesn't do it for me.

I bet you could have some kind of wizard subclass for that. The current transmutation subclass is pretty bad anyways.

[Falcon X]

* Voidbringer - We've got a fair few official Sorcerers, thus far. We got Wild Magic, Dragon Magic, Storm & Classical Elementalism, we got Angelic/Divine Heritage (Favored Soul), we got illusion/darkness-based Shadow Magic... but, the one thing we don't have is a Necromantic Sorcerer. I admit I'm not personally sure how to make this guy stand out compared to the Necromancer Wizard, but, we have seen it done before. The Dread Necromancer in 3.5 was essentially a Necromantic Sorcerer, and there's thematic room in D&D for a guy who is simply full of necrotic energy and can only barely control it, right?

I love Void as a sorcerous subclass. I even made it myself. (http://http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?488418-5e-Void-Disciple-Homebrew)
But mine keys off the old Void Disciple (http://http://dnd.arkalseif.info/classes/void-disciple/index.html), which is paying attention to the absence of things rather than negative energy. I think your idea should tie to the Plane of Negative Energy, not the Plane of Void.

[Âmesang]

Sorcerer:
* Arcanist - One of the things I love about the Sorcerer is its whole "born to magic" fluff. It's awesome, it's what makes it different from the Warlock & Wizard, and yet... it's not quite as represented as it should be. There's no "naturally talented at magic" sorcerous origin thus far; oh, one can try to argue the Wild Mage, but it's got a chaos flair and flavoring that just makes it mesh poorly with that "natural prodigy" flavor. It's all about someone who can't control their inner magic, not who, say, was born to a dynasty of wizards and so finds magic comes as naturally to them as breathing. I'm not sure what abilities to actually give this sort of Sorcerer, in all honesty. Expanded spell lists, an increased pool of sorcery points and, at 18th level, Magic Resistance where you can regain sorcery points if you shake off the magical effect all come to mind.
This has been rolling around in my mind as well due to my favorite 3e character (for the last decade) being a WORLD OF GREYHAWK® Suel noble sorceress/archmage—primarily as a way for her to retain as many of her abilities as possible and due to her "sorcererous origin" being a variant of the sherem transformation spell from the GHOSTWALK™ Campaign Option (basically she was gifted with her arcane ability whilst still in the womb).

So far the only ideas that have come to mind has been to borrow from other classes:


Learning some spells from any class, ala bard, representing their innate connection to magic ("a sorcerer casts arcane spells, which are drawn primarily from the sorcerer/wizard spell list"), and to help pad out their woefully lacking spells known list… why do bards know more spells than sorcerers?


Use Magic Device at 14th level—one level after the thief, and because she had ranks in the skill back in 3e, and for the same reasons as above


Arcane Fire at 18th level—while probably not the best archmage High Arcana I just love the flavor of it… since it's basically D&D's version of Force Lighting and can represent being fully attuned to magic itself… the wizard may know magic—the sorcerer is magic… I'm thinking similar mechanics; expend one spell slot per blast, perhaps with damage being 1d6 per spell level plus 1d6 per point of Charisma bonus; although with significantly fewer spell slots I'm sure it needs some further tweaking


Elemental Spell Metamagic—nothing to do with subclasses but she had it as a High Arcana and, in my mind, it seems a fairly simple transition… expend one (or more?) sorcerery point(s) when casting an acid/cold/fire/lightning/thunder spell to change its element; two other High Arcana seem fairly well represented by existing Metamagic choices… Mastering of Shaping = Careful Spell, Arcane Reach = Distant Spell


All that's come to mind for 1st level abilities has been Expertise in Arcana (representing a heightened awareness of magic due to the sorcerer's innate connection) and proficiency in alchemist's supplies…… because of the old Alchemist/Craft (alchemy) skill that sorcerers and archmages could have …though admittedly it is more appropriate for a wizard, but, again, she was trained in it but was also able to augment it with poisoncrafting [see Book of Vile Darkness, p.45] …it'd probably be best leaving that to feats (basically, due to her Suel heritage and noble background, I played her with a wizard's mindset and ambition)

[Naanomi]

Between existing subclasses and UA stuff I do feel like they've done a good job covering the gist of most classic concepts but...

Although there are ways of making it now, a formal 'thug' rogue path

Undeath flavored sorcerer, maybe 'near death expierience' awakening...

A decay flavored Druid

A 'military' focused paladin oath (oath of brotherhood? Oath of arms?)

More ground for Warlock Patrons to cover: djinn, shaman-spirit/witch-doctor...

Maybe a nature oriented 'animal styles' monk path?

A mounted subclass wouldn't be bad, but not sure if it should be fighter or ranger focused (cavalier Vs Outrider)

Also some ground for some setting specific subclasses (oath of the dragon-kings, defiler, etc)

Probably also some more room for more 'race specific' subclasses, but nothing immediately springs to mind

[Shadow_in_the_Mist]

This has been rolling around in my mind as well due to my favorite 3e character (for the last decade) being a WORLD OF GREYHAWK® Suel noble sorceress/archmage—primarily as a way for her to retain as many of her abilities as possible and due to her "sorcererous origin" being a variant of the sherem transformation spell from the GHOSTWALK™ Campaign Option (basically she was gifted with her arcane ability whilst still in the womb).

So far the only ideas that have come to mind has been to borrow from other classes:

Well, if it's at all helpful to you, my take on the Arcanist Origin for Sorcerers can be found here:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?516833-The-Misty-Shadow-s-Sorcerous-Origins-PEACH

I mostly focused on the ability to prepare a spellbook, allowing them to "know" more spells in the same way that a wizard does, increased spells known, and increased sorcery points.

@Naanomi:
Thing is, we've had a Cavalier subclass for Fighters for ages and it's all about being a mounted warrior. Heck, we got a tweaked version in this month's UA too.

[Hypersmith]

I'd really like a ghost/possession themed subclass, kinda reminiscent of shadow of mordor, where two creatures in a single body cooperate. The problem with that is it's almost too universal an effect to cram into a single subclass

[Vogie]

I'd really like a ghost/possession themed subclass, kinda reminiscent of shadow of mordor, where two creatures in a single body cooperate. The problem with that is it's almost too universal an effect to cram into a single subclass

That's what I was thinking. Although, you could make the case that the 5e Warlocks could fit the bill, as they already default to three different available styles, which could have that subclass feel if the Ghost Patron is built correctly.

You could probably build a subclass based on possession by Ghost(s) drawing from Geist: the Sin Eaters and/or the Medium/Spiritualist classes from Pathfinder Occult Adventures.

[SaurOps]

I've been kicking around versions of each class that shapeshift into animals, sometimes like druids, sometimes choosing one like a lycanthrope and getting a hybrid form, because Rick Swan spitball-suggested a Lycanthropic Ranger back in the 90s with the Complete Ranger's Handbook and it never happened. So now, I've decided to make it crop up everywhere. This is somewhat stymied by the fact that D&D, which draws off of myths and legends and weird fiction everywhere else, decided to draw the line at beasts when it came to neat special effects and abilities, so the shape alone might not end up having some vital stuff in it.

[Lombra]

Give me a warlord but make it a paladin subclass that loses spells and refluff the auras to be just really charismatic.

Spells? All I see are smites ;)
A battlemaster/devotion paladin probably comes close to what you want if you'd like my 2cp.

[Tetrasodium]

Some really cool ideas. But I want my full caster Artificer in a high magic Ebberon setting. The current version doesn't do it for me.


agreed on the current artificer options being both underwhelming & ill fitting for eberron, but eberron is more wide magic with magic widely used than "high" magic like tippyverse or something where powerful magic is everywhere

[alchahest]

a non-monk, non-dex fistfighter/grappler. Not wise, but mighty. a Pugilist with powerful fists. a barbarian or fighter subclass.

Something like the Ardent from 4e, a tough defender with the ability to cannonball around to defend it's pals. Psionic subclass for fighter.

Sorcerers descended from other things. like a Sorcerer with Aboleth bloodline. or a Sphinx. or a Djinn/Efreet.

[Hypersmith]

Sorcerers descended from other things. like a Sorcerer with Aboleth bloodline. or a Sphinx. or a Djinn/Efreet.

The problem right thus in my opinion is that there are so many potential bloodlines that you just can't get them all. I'm a big fan of reflavoring a bunch to get it all to work.

[MajorDefunction]

As I really love demonic stuff I hope I'll see a Warlock that actually deals with summoning demons and such. Hopefully they will also add the UA demonic summoning spells to an official book since my DM doesn't allow UA.

[Findulidas]

A monk based on grappling, judo and similar. Because really why doesnt this exist already.

[TripleD]

Repeating from earlier: a Ranger subclass that focuses on traps. 3.5 had two prestige classes devoted to this.

Master of Masks for the Bard. Few Prestige classes intrigued me as much as this one in 3.5. Mechanics weren't great, but I'd love to see another take on it.

Barabrian: Jotunmoth (lit. "Giant* Rage"). I'd love a rage that actually changes your size and slowly adds advantages from growing large.

* I realize "giant" is actually not a great translation of "jotun", but the expression just sounds so cool.

[strangebloke]

Fate Sorcerer.

As in, the stars aligned upon her birth. She is favored by fate and bears a power only seen once in a generation...

It's a super-common fantasy trope, and while the paladin has it built-in, it makes loads of sense for the sorcerer as well.

Mechanically you could either roll it as a fate/roll manipulator.

[Sariel Vailo]

A monk based on grappling, judo and similar. Because really why doesnt this exist already.

I found a monk subclass but its about lucha

[Ralanr]

A monk based on grappling, judo and similar. Because really why doesnt this exist already.

That's because Barbarian will beat them at it.

[The Cats]

I recently created a Circle of the Swarm subclass for Druids. (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1nDTpsoh7nXHFz96wP70c-UQOFV5be-NFC2rCSgERDiE/edit)

It seems like a pretty popular theme to homebrew, and I can see why. Imagine: You swing your sword at the sunken-eyed, pale man dressed in a ragged cloak. He doesn't flinch at the oncoming blade. In fact, for just an instant you think you saw a smile. Just as your sword would cut into flesh the man dissolves into a mass of spiders that surge forward and swarm all over you!

You've been rescued in some deep tunnel system by a mysterious halfling with nervous, darting eyes. You mention that your sister, who you were exploring the tunnels with, is still lost out there. The halfing nods and you recoil as his arm sloughs off, morphing into four rats before it hits the ground that scurry off in different directions into the dark. "I'll find her."

Such tasty, tasty flavour.

Mechanically I wanted to put together something that could use its wild shape in combat but, instead of tanking and dealing damage like the Moon druid, focused more on battlefield control and locking enemies down.

I'm actually very interested in feedback and anyone willing to workshop it with me to help with balance would be my friend for a million years. I'm planning to ask my DM if I can play it in our new campaign (in Ravenloft) and I want to be able to show him something he won't dismiss out of hand as OP.

[Ralanr]

I recently created a Circle of the Swarm subclass for Druids. (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1nDTpsoh7nXHFz96wP70c-UQOFV5be-NFC2rCSgERDiE/edit)

It seems like a pretty popular theme to homebrew, and I can see why. Imagine: You swing your sword at the sunken-eyed, pale man dressed in a ragged cloak. He doesn't flinch at the oncoming blade. In fact, for just an instant you think you saw a smile. Just as your sword would cut into flesh the man dissolves into a mass of spiders that surge forward and swarm all over you!

You've been rescued in some deep tunnel system by a mysterious halfling with nervous, darting eyes. You mention that your sister, who you were exploring the tunnels with, is still lost out there. The halfing nods and you recoil as his arm sloughs off, morphing into four rats before it hits the ground that scurry off in different directions into the dark. "I'll find her."

Such tasty, tasty flavour.

Mechanically I wanted to put together something that could use its wild shape in combat but, instead of tanking and dealing damage like the Moon druid, focused more on battlefield control and locking enemies down.

I'm actually very interested in feedback and anyone willing to workshop it with me to help with balance would be my friend for a million years. I'm planning to ask my DM if I can play it in our new campaign (in Ravenloft) and I want to be able to show him something he won't dismiss out of hand as OP.


Mechanically I love it. Flavor, I don't see how this relates to swamps so much as it is just swarm shapeshifting honestly.

[The Cats]

Mechanically I love it. Flavor, I don't see how this relates to swamps so much as it is just swarm shapeshifting honestly.

Circle of the Swarm.

[Findulidas]

That's because Barbarian will beat them at it.

As if that couldnt be easily fixed by a archetype. Expertise in athletics and advantage on rolls when grappling/shoving and when getting grappled/shoved.

[qube]

A druid oozemaster - because shifting into solid shapes is silly :p

[jaappleton]

Wizard:
* Chronomancer

It's funny you say that.

I have seen a Chronomancy cert for AL use. I can't find anything on it online, like what it does or allows you to do, but I've seen it.

I found it on Twitter, but someone else took it and posted it on another forum: http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?491902-5th-Ed-Chronomancy-coming-from-WotC

[Ralanr]

Circle of the Swarm.


Oh, well I'm blind.


As if that couldnt be easily fixed by a archetype. Expertise in athletics and advantage on rolls when grappling/shoving and when getting grappled/shoved.

Ok, then the rogue or bard could with levels in barbarian could beat them at it.

My point being that a subclass centered around grappling seems kinda pointless when it's not hard to make with some multiclassing and refluff.

By all means homebrew it. Don't let my personal opinion get in the way of creativity.

[The Cats]

Oh, well I'm blind.



Ok, then the rogue or bard could with levels in barbarian could beat them at it.

My point being that a subclass centered around grappling seems kinda pointless when it's not hard to make with some multiclassing and refluff.

By all means homebrew it. Don't let my personal opinion get in the way of creativity.

I halfway agree with this. There's no point in having a subclass that's just really good at grappling. Plenty of other ways to make a character really good at grappling.

Now, a subclass who can do really cool things with grappling that no other character could do, that's worth making.

IMO that's what a subclass should be about: Doing something differently, rather than just better.

[Findulidas]

Ok, then the rogue or bard could with levels in barbarian could beat them at it.

My point being that a subclass centered around grappling seems kinda pointless when it's not hard to make with some multiclassing and refluff.

By all means homebrew it. Don't let my personal opinion get in the way of creativity.

Who said it would stop there, I mean thats not really much so it would probably be about the first benefit. I only showed how easy it is to make something better than the barb in grappling if you try. Also once you have to MC in order to do something you often have to give something else up. I can think of a dozen other stuff at the top of my head that would make it unique so I seriously doubt anyone creating archetypes couldnt make a good one.

[Ralanr]

Who said it would stop there, I mean thats not really much so it would probably be about the first benefit. I only showed how easy it is to make something better than the barb in grappling if you try. Also once you have to MC in order to do something you often have to give something else up. I can think of a dozen other stuff at the top of my head that would make it unique so I seriously doubt anyone creating archetypes couldnt make a good one.

Clearly I thought it stopped there because I've been creatively stunted for weeks...

[Easy_Lee]

Acrobat archetype for rogue. Able to weild spear / quarterstaff as a finesse weapon, exceptionally good at jumping, climbing, and avoidance.

It's such an iconic thing that I'm surprised it doesn't exist. Acrobat was in the d&d cartoon, for crying out loud! The only thing I can figure is that it's too similar to the Thief archetype and is visually too similar to a Monk. As is, the best way to build this is with multiclassing.

[BladedWizard]

Circle of Swords Druid: A Druid who can wear Heavy Armor and gets Martial Weapon proficiency. Loses the ability to Wild Shape into Beasts but gains the ability to Wild Shape into humanoid creatures, keeping stats the same but gaining that humanoid creature's special abilities (kinda like Alter Self, but more versatile). Also gaining a second attack at 6th level.

Conclave of the Beast: Ranger that gets the ability to transform himself and mimic beasts. Such as giving himself claws, natural armor, gills or wings.

These two ^. I would love to see and play this. If anyone creates these archetypes please let me know.

[Sariel Vailo]

It's funny you say that.

I have seen a Chronomancy cert for AL use. I can't find anything on it online, like what it does or allows you to do, but I've seen it.

I found it on Twitter, but someone else took it and posted it on another forum: http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?491902-5th-Ed-Chronomancy-coming-from-WotC have ye tried the mfov i know they have a chronomancer

[NovenFromTheSun]

Path of Iron monk: who wears heavy armor and punches enemies with gauntlets.

[Ninja-Radish]

These two ^. I would love to see and play this. If anyone creates these archetypes please let me know.

Sounds like we have similar tastes. I love the idea of playing a shapeshifter but I find the concept of turning only into animals so very dull.

[Shadow_in_the_Mist]

I thought I had a thread like this up... had some new ideas for Sorcerer subclasses, and I figured I might as well ut them here than start a whole new thread about arcane subclasses...

Sorcerous Origins:
Faeriekin: A sorcerer whose power stems from ties to the fey; could be a birth blessing or blood ancestry. This sorcerer would be essentially the sorcerous analogue to the wizard's Enchanter or Illusionist, probably more towards Illusionist than anything.
Mesmerist: A sorcerer whose innate affinity is for controlling minds and binding wills to their own. This would be tricky to differentiate from the Enchanter Wizard, as the two fundamentally cover the same ground.
Greenthumb: The Druidic analogue to the Favored Soul, this is a sorcerer whose powers innately stem from nature, giving them an instinctive ability to manipulate the living world around them in a way that druids must study and pledge faith in order to emulate.

[wilhelmdubdub]

how about a beastmaster barbarian or druid

[polymphus]

We definitely need more viable stuff for Sorc and Bard -- they're really homogeneous classes and a solid selection of new subclasses would give them a lot more range.

I'd love to see a Shaman subclass for sorc -- somebody whose power comes from their connection to nature. Random attempt at it --

Expanded Spell List
Lvl 3: Speak with Plants, Speak with Animals
Lvl 6: Conjure Animals, Commune with Nature
Lvl 14: Conjure Fey, Conjure Elemental
Lvl 18: Earthquake, Control Weather

Lvl 3: Sorcerer gains access to ritual casting, as a new scaling version of the Find Familiar spell. Two free druid cantrips of the sorc's choice, and one free lvl1 spell from druid or ranger.

Lvl 6: Expanded familiar list that includes animals like wolves. Further scales at 14/18.

Lvl 14: Speak with Plants/Animals cast immediately and no longer cost spell slots. Resistance to damage from beasts or animated/living plants.

Lvl 18: Can have two familiars out at once.

[Hypersmith]

how about a beastmaster barbarian or druid

Beastmaster seems to fall solidly under ranger - but I can see a ranger/barb multiclass working pretty well, and I'm sure someone has done druid/ranger before, cast a summoning spell, turned into a dire wolf, then ran around leading a pack of wolves before.