spikes on clothes

[Baby Gary]

Hi All,
today I was talking with one of my friends about armor in D&D, especially how clothes are considered armor but with no ac bonus, no max dex, no spell failure chance etc. also you can put armor spikes on (drum roll please) armor. ALSO in the 3.5 phb in the section about armor spikes it says nothing, as far as I know, about restrictions for the armor you can spike. I think you get what I'm going at, turning your wizard from a god to a porcupine god (not god of the porcupine's though).

Can this actually work and are there any other interesting uses from armor spikes on clothing that you can think of?

Baby Gary

[Kaleph]

Giving them the "warning" enchantment, to get +5 initiative.

[SangoProduction]

One word: Goth.

[Baby Gary]

One word: Goth.

to true, to true

[Swaoeaeieu]

are clothes considdered armour though? I would think that if it isnt in the list for armors you cant put spikes on it. But why would we assume logic in dnd right?

[Kaleph]

are clothes considdered armour though? I would think that if it isnt in the list for armors you cant put spikes on it. But why would we assume logic in dnd right?

I also agree it's ridiculous, but I believe by RAW it can be done - simply because the PHB doesn't specify which Kind of armor/clothing may be provided with Spikes. Still, I understood the question was more theoretical than practical.

[Baby Gary]

are clothes considdered armour though? I would think that if it isnt in the list for armors you cant put spikes on it. But why would we assume logic in dnd right?

I believe that clothes are treated as armor for all statistical purposes, I mean you can enchant your cloths with the same enchants as your fighter. also I think that it is stated in some book somewhere

[Baby Gary]

more theoretical than practical.

Or so you think, Muahahahaha!!!!

lol

[Baby Gary]

also armor spikes have no arcane spell failure chance, you thinkin' what i'm thinkin'?

[Swaoeaeieu]

I believe that clothes are treated as armor for all statistical purposes, I mean you can enchant your cloths with the same enchants as your fighter. also I think that it is stated in some book somewhere

Well this is the part i put into question, do you have a source on this? i know about magical clothing but never heard clothes to be considdered just terrible armor.

[weckar]

This could open up so many cans of worms. Like, if it is armor it must be at least Light armor (There is no lower category). Therefore, all Monks are naked.

[A_S]

Well this is the part i put into question, do you have a source on this? i know about magical clothing but never heard clothes to be considdered just terrible armor.
In other threads on this topic, the only rule that ever came up is from the text of Magic Vestment (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/magicVestment.htm):


An outfit of regular clothing counts as armor that grants no AC bonus for the purpose of this spell.

Of course, "for the purpose of this spell" throws a wrench in things. I don't know of a clearer ruling on the matter anywhere else.

[Fouredged Sword]

Worst comes to worst just wear a spiked gnomish twistcloth without proficiency.

[Psyren]

"For the purposes of this spell" means just that - clothes don't count as armor any other time.

[The_Jette]

Technically, you can only apply armor spikes to armor. Clothing can count as armor with no armor value for the purposes of Magic Vestment, but only that. Even if you took a set of clothing and enchanted it to have an armor bonus (ie Robes of the Archmagi), they would still be clothes.

That being said, it really wouldn't be too unbalancing to allow armor spikes on clothing, though the clothes would have to be reinforced to support the extra weight. If you had a super lightweight metal (like mithril) it would be even easier to justify. Just, RAW it's not allowed.

[Gruftzwerg]

Doesn't work:

- cloth ain't considered armor.
- check armor section in the PHB. clothes ain't on the list.
- compare to Unarmed Strikes which is on the list for weapons
- clothes is just regular equipment (and there you have the types + price & description).

If you want armor spikes on a unarmored character use "Bracers of Armor +X". They count as armor and thus can benefit from all options armors have (e.g. Armor Spikes, or armor enchantments like Death Ward/Soulfire IIRC). Note that this is also the realistic application in real life (and movies^^). Take light Gladiator Armor as example. They often offer only bracers and shoulder armor as protection and these sometimes come with spikes.

[daremetoidareyo]

Mud armor! Dc 10 survival check!

[Thurbane]

are clothes considdered armour though? I would think that if it isnt in the list for armors you cant put spikes on it. But why would we assume logic in dnd right?

I think a certain reading of the Magic Vestment spell allows you to consider normal clothes armor with a AC bonus of 0, ASF of 0%, ACP of 0 and max Dex of ∞.


One word: Goth.

I have to admit, as a long time metalhead, a little part of wept that goth is the go-to subculture for spiked clothes.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/9MTkcI-jhPE/hqdefault.jpg

[Gruftzwerg]

I think a certain reading of the Magic Vestment spell allows you to consider normal clothes armor with a AC bonus of 0, ASF of 0%, ACP of 0 and max Dex of ∞.


you are referring to:

An outfit of regular clothing counts as armor that grants no AC bonus for the purpose of this spell.

The fact that it is mentioned that it "counts as armor for the purpose of the spell" should make it clear that isn't a general rule and that outside of the spell still the general rules apply.

Sorry, still no..

And really, ain't spiked bracers enough? I mean, show/explain me how you wanna attach spikes to simple clothes that than have the durability to be used as weapon? Unless you work with wood or metal or at least heavy leather (armor) it won't work.

[daremetoidareyo]

you are referring to:


The fact that it is mentioned that it "counts as armor for the purpose of the spell" should make it clear that isn't a general rule and that outside of the spell still the general rules apply.

Sorry, still no..

And really, ain't spiked bracers enough? I mean, show/explain me how you wanna attach spikes to simple clothes that than have the durability to be used as weapon? Unless you work with wood or metal or at least heavy leather (armor) it won't work.

Or mud! Muddy clothes will do it.

[Thurbane]

And really, ain't spiked bracers enough? I mean, show/explain me how you wanna attach spikes to simple clothes that than have the durability to be used as weapon? Unless you work with wood or metal or at least heavy leather (armor) it won't work.

FWIW, I agree with your reading, but I've seen fairly intense rules debates supporting the more generous reading.

Curmudgeon (who doesn't seem to be active on these boards any more) was a real stickler for RAW, and also an advocate of RAW allowing enchanting of clothes so that, for instance, Monks could use them as "armor".


And really, ain't spiked bracers enough? I mean, show/explain me how you wanna attach spikes to simple clothes that than have the durability to be used as weapon? Unless you work with wood or metal or at least heavy leather (armor) it won't work.

Spiked bracers FTW! :biggrin:

http://metalkings.com/aggressor/Kerry-King-december-05.jpg

[HurinTheCursed]

RAW or not, I see no problem with clothe as armor or skin as natural armor, some mage robes add AC IIRC.
If an arcane caster really wants it, he can already get some midnight mithril armor to avoid spell miss chance, it already compete with (greater) mage armor. And if it's for a mundane, I'd let him have his spikes as long as he doesn't overshadow the rest of the group which is unlikely.

I loled at Rob Halford as I realized the first band name on my tshirt was Judas Priest.

[Gruftzwerg]

RAW or not, I see no problem with clothe as armor or skin as natural armor, some mage robes add AC IIRC.
If an arcane caster really wants it, he can already get some midnight mithril armor to avoid spell miss chance, it already compete with (greater) mage armor. And if it's for a mundane, I'd let him have his spikes as long as he doesn't overshadow the rest of the group which is unlikely.

I loled at Rob Halford as I realized the first band name on my tshirt was Judas Priest.

On fist glance it might seem balanced ( and with gentleman agreement it would definitively work). But it ain't RAW and on high optimization tables it could cause problems.
Twilight Mithril Armor won't work for monks (unless they stick to the restriction of loosing monk movement and AC bonus).
Regularly monks who wanna make use of all their class features need to pay with (magic) item restrictions. One of these restrictions is the use of regular armor which includes spikes on the body slot imho.
It's not that I think it is OP, but I would like to point out that per design the monk is supposed to either live without (spiked-)armor or lose access to some class features temporary.

My question is, do you really need spikes on the body slot from a rule perspective? Wouldn't spiked Bracers of Armor and just regular cloths with fluffed spikes be enough? Is there any reason why fluff ain't enough and you need to break the rules?
Imho not unless you think that monk lacks weapon enchantment slots (looking at the shuriken cheese, where the monk holds one in each hand, one between the teeth and still is attacking unarmed..^^).

[leoryff]

Intimidation and paranoia induction. When i was in highschool, my biggest fear wasn't bullies or failed tests.

It was tripping and accidentally impaling myself on a coat covered in those things.

[HurinTheCursed]

One could say these leather vest and trousers are light armor.


On fist glance it might seem balanced ( and with gentleman agreement it would definitively work). But it ain't RAW and on high optimization tables it could cause problems.
Twilight Mithril Armor won't work for monks (unless they stick to the restriction of loosing monk movement and AC bonus).
Regularly monks who wanna make use of all their class features need to pay with (magic) item restrictions. One of these restrictions is the use of regular armor which includes spikes on the body slot imho.
It's not that I think it is OP, but I would like to point out that per design the monk is supposed to either live without (spiked-)armor or lose access to some class features temporary.

My question is, do you really need spikes on the body slot from a rule perspective? Wouldn't spiked Bracers of Armor and just regular cloths with fluffed spikes be enough? Is there any reason why fluff ain't enough and you need to break the rules?
Imho not unless you think that monk lacks weapon enchantment slots (looking at the shuriken cheese, where the monk holds one in each hand, one between the teeth and still is attacking unarmed..^^).
The only shuriken cheese I can think of is enchanting them as ammunition price and using them as weapons that aren't destroyed. Looking for alternative weapon slots to get more enchantments at a less quadratic price is less game breaking than tiers-1 classes getting their new set of weapons for free each morning.

Monk and high optimization don't walk hand to hand that often, there's nothing he can do with spikes he could not do better with other classes. If the fighter can have spikes on his armor and enchant them, why not the monk ? He is not even proficient, it doesn't combo with his class features so it's not like we would do something no one in the group can do. And if he wants to get a +5 robe and +5 defending spikes on it using magic vestment + greater magic weapon why not if he pays for it ? All others can have all that plus the shield equivalent !

If the rules on the table are that all and only what it raw is allowed, it probably wouldn't work rulewise. But then the full monk is already doomed if it's in a high optimization campaingn anyway.
I believe mechanics and rules exist to convey fun around a table, not limit it, otherwise houserules are ok. If an lower power character wants to have what others can have for the same cost, why not ? If the player wants it for fluff reasons (a black-wearing spiky face-painted bard from a polar country ?) and not for minmaxing, why even say no, let him have his fun !

[Thurbane]

Intimidation and paranoia induction. When i was in highschool, my biggest fear wasn't bullies or failed tests.

It was tripping and accidentally impaling myself on a coat covered in those things.

As someone who used to go to a lot of metal and punk gigs in my younger years, and was usually in the pit and stage diving: yeah, studded clothing can hurt! I'm not sure it was 1d4 damage though. :smalltongue:


One could say these leather vest and trousers are light armor.

I used to think that about my leather riding jacket. I'm still not convinced it offered as much protection as hardened leather armor. I mean, by definition, since it was supposed help keep me alive if I came off a motorcycle at speed, it must have had some protection factor.

Leather used in historical armor was boiled or lacquered, and nowhere near as supple as most of what we wear as clothing today.

[Bohandas]

It menaces with spikes of iron

[SangoProduction]

As someone who used to go to a lot of metal and punk gigs in my younger years, and was usually in the pit and stage diving: yeah, studded clothing can hurt! I'm not sure it was 1d4 damage though. :smalltongue:

Then again, it would probably hurt more if someone actually sharpened the studs and actually tried to hurt you with them. (which is the general assumption for making attacks in 3.5)