how to make epic level spells from books

[Baby Gary]

Hi All,
I am just about to start rereading The Wheel of Time (btw a great series) and I was thinking about balefire, and more importantly, how to make it in D&D.

This is how balefire works (all you who have read wheel of time 1. skip this section 2. cudos to you)
it has a couple unique properties, 1st it is a ray. 2nd anyone (or anything for that matter) who is hit by it is instantly ripped out of existence, not killed, they are literally RIPPED OUT OF EXISTENCE. and finally the 3rd part, the coolest part and the part that will anger your DM the most, depending on how powerfully it was cast, is can rip you out of existence IN THE PAST. So if the big baddy kills your friend just balefire him, free resurrection! so after rush hour you could hit a bridge with Balefire and if you did it powerful enough all the cars, wagons, etc. would actually be in the river, not the city.

this would be VERY annoying for DMs but how could I go around making an epic level spell that would do just that?

Baby Gary

P.S. if my description of Balefire was not good enough just google it

[Bullet06320]

wheel of time has a d20 book, on page 164 is balefire, its uses a slightly different magic system, but looking it over, yea, defo belongs in the epic category

[shaikujin]

I'm re-reading WoT as well!
I second the WoT D20. (It's published by Wizards). Balefire is an equivalent of a level 9 spell in that book (default level erase target from 5 mins back in time). There are ways to boost the "spell level" to higher levels, all the way to level 13 (at level 13, target is erased from 10 days back in time).



Trying to do the same effects via an Epic spell would be a bit more inefficient.
Useful references for a Balefire EPIC spell:
1) Un-name spell from Tome of Magic. Lvl 9. Necromancy
2) Teleport through Time from http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/pg/20030409b. Lvl 9. Transmutation (Teleportation)
3) Greater Ruin. Epic spell. Transmutation. Uses Destroy seed
4) Time Duplicate. Epic spell. Conjuration [Teleportation]. Uses Transport seed


I think it's easier to replicate combining the 2 existing level 9 spells to send the effect of the Unname spell back in time. Simple example:

The epic Shadow seed from Lost Empires of Faerun seems workable for this.
Base DC is 23.
Add +5 for each spell level increase.
So +40 to replicate a level 9 spell.
DC 63.

DC 126 to replicate the effects of both spells.
Add the Energy (Fire) seed to make it instant and also to make it fit the BaleFIRE theme. DC+19.
Final DC for this base version is 145. Might need some other seeds to be added, perhaps some other factors and mitigation.


How far back in time to erase the target is determined by the Teleport Through time table. Minimum is between 1 day to 1 month. 5% chance to drift by +/-d8 minutes, and causes 1 point of Int damage per 10 years.
No max. Can be over 1,000 years back.

So the epic spell version which can erase the target from between 1 day to 1,000+ years ago is definitely more powerful than the version in the WoT D20.

I wonder what and how far ranging the effect would be, to wipe a Forsaken from the pattern 1 month ago?
What about a couple of years? This would likely undo all their machinations since being freed from the seal.
What if they were wiped all the way back to the Age of Legends?



Further optimization - There are other ways ways to do this of course, such as using the destroy and transport seeds. Shadow seed itself can be abused to replicate any Epic spells, and make the above spell a mere DC 68 spell.

[CIDE]

It'd likely be epic. We can draw a direct comparison to the Unnamed spell which is a 9th level wizard spell that requires truenaming. It literally erases the target just like Balefire does. Balefire (as it is in the series) is objectively better in that it shouldn't allow spell resistance (though, maybe a reflex save) and wouldn't require an idiotic skill check.

[Gildedragon]

Note that porting over the WoTd20 magic system is a pretty good idea overall
At the very least I quite like it...