To which effects does the ca bonus of the shield master apply?

[Feuerphoenix]

Hey guys,

I am a little bit confused, to which effects the additional bonus Ac of shield master apply to.

For example:
1. a fireball is thrown at me, but I am the only character to hit. Do I add the AC now? (By wording yes, by logic no?!)
2. the group is on a mountain wall, and stones are falling from above. Although the whole group makes the saving throw for me it is logical to add the AC here.
3. I am falling down a wall, a friend throws a rope to me. DM wants a DEX saving throw. By rules My shield somehow assists me. Right?!

So where is to draw the line?

[hymer]

1. a fireball is thrown at me, but I am the only character to hit. Do I add the AC now? (By wording yes, by logic no?!)
Fireballs don't care what your Armor Class is, and shields affect your AC. You defend against fireballs with your Dex saving throw, not your AC.


2. the group is on a mountain wall, and stones are falling from above. Although the whole group makes the check for me it is logical to add the AC here.
A shield is only effective while equipped. You're likely to want both hands free for climbing, and so won't have a bonus to your AC from the shield at that point. But the shield doesn't affect a Dex check one way or another, and if the DM is having you roll Dex checks to avoid the rocks, the shield doesn't apply one way or another.


3. I am falling down a wall, a friend throws a rope to me. DM wants a DEX saving throw. By rules My shield somehow assists me. Right?!
Your shield affects your AC, not your Dex saves or checks. No, your shield bonus does not apply.


So where is to draw the line?
At Armor Class. Your shield gives a bonus to AC and nothing else, unless it is a special shield of some sort.

[Feuerphoenix]

Fireballs don't care what your Armor Class is, and shields affect your AC. You defend against fireballs with your Dex saving throw, not your AC.


A shield is only effective while equipped. You're likely to want both hands free for climbing, and so won't have a bonus to your AC from the shield at that point. But the shield doesn't affect a Dex check one way or another, and if the DM is having you roll Dex checks to avoid the rocks, the shield doesn't apply one way or another.


Your shield affects your AC, not your Dex saves or checks. No, your shield bonus does not apply.


At Armor Class. Your shield gives a bonus to AC and nothing else, unless it is a special shield of some sort.

Great looks like you don't know the shield master feat ;) in the second example it should a saving throw of course.

Here is the feat for you to read:

S h i e l d M a s t e r
You use shields not just for protection but also for
offense. You gain the following benefits while you are
wielding a shield:
• If you take the Attack action on your turn, you can use
a bonus action to try to shove a creature within 5 feet
of you with your shield.
• If you aren’t incapacitated, you can add your shield’s AC
bonus to any Dexterity saving throw you make against
a spell or other harmful effect that targets only you.
• If you are subjected to an effect that allows you to
make a Dexterity saving throw to take only half dam -
age, you can use your reaction to take no damage if
you succeed on the saving throw, interposing your
shield between yourself and the source of t

[Haydensan]

To the above, the user is referring to the shield master feat that allows you to add your shields AC to DEX saves against effects that target just you. I'm AFB and can't remember the specific wording though.

And for me I'd probably rule that it does apply to the falling rocks so long as you have your shield out already and this is established. Not too sure on the others

[Jacquerel]

1) Shield Master says:

If you aren't incapacitated, you can add your shield's AC bonus to any Dexterity saving throw you make against a spell or other harmful effect that targets only you.
If you are subjected to an effect that allows you to make a Dexterity saving throw to take only half damage, you can use your reaction to take no damage if you succeed on the saving throw, interposing your shield between yourself and the source of the effect.

In the case of a Fireball, it does not target only you, even if you are the only person currently stood in the area effect. You do not add your AC to your Dexterity saving throw.
However, you can use your reaction on a successful save to take no damage instead of half damage.

2) The first effect only triggers if an effect only targets you, and you have your shield.
In this case the effect targets multiple people, and you do not have your shield, because you need your hands to climb.
The second effect triggers if you would take half damage on a successful save (and have your shield).
This still doesn't trigger, because you wouldn't have your shield, but if you did and the DM would rule that you would take damage even on a success (I would not rule this for falling rocks) then you could use your reaction to instead take no damage.

3) Shield Master does not boost your ability to make Dexterity checks, it only activates for saving throws.
Catching a rope would be a check, not a save.



The second line of Shield Master (or the first that I have quoted) applies to single target effects like Poison Spray, Acid Splash, or Disintegrate. These are typically "all or nothing" effects, where if you make your save you don't take any damage.

The third line (or second in my quote) is for area effects like a dragon's Breath attack, or a Fireball. These effects typically cause an explosion or some kind of area effect that it wouldn't really make sense for you to dodge (hence the half damage), so you don't get the AC bonus to Dex, but you can hide behind your shield to block its effect.

There are rare cases like Chain Lightning where you might get to apply both, but usually it is one or the other.

[Feuerphoenix]

3) Shield Master does not boost your ability to make Dexterity saves,

It does. Look at the second feature of the feat

[Jacquerel]

It does. Look at the second feature of the feat

You caught me just as I was editing my post :P
Think of it like this:

Against a Beholder's Eye Ray it lets you add your AC bonus to your Dex for your saving throw.
Against a Dragon's Breath it allows you to take no damage instead of half damage on a successful save.
Against a swinging rope it does nothing, because that is a check and not a save, and clearly does not involve your shield.

[hymer]

Great looks like you don't know the shield master feat ;)

Sorry, my bad.

[Feuerphoenix]

You caught me just as I was editing my post :P
Think of it like this:

Against a Beholder's Eye Ray it lets you add your AC bonus to your Dex for your saving throw.
Against a Dragon's Breath it allows you to take no damage instead of half damage on a successful save.
Against a swinging rope it does nothing, because that is a check and not a save, and clearly does not involve your shield.

I like your way to see the feature. But from a wording point, an AoE, which targets only me, is also included for getting the bonus. And that is my question. Also how about the case, where it perfectly makes sense ( stones are falling on you), to add the ac, right?

[Feuerphoenix]

Sorry, my bad.

It's all right bro :)

[Jacquerel]

I like your way to see the feature. But from a wording point, an AoE, which targets only me, is also included for getting the bonus. And that is my question. Also how about the case, where it perfectly makes sense ( stones are falling on you), to add the ac, right?

The AOE does not target only you, it targets a point in space.
An effect that targets only you would say that it targets one creature. An effect that says it targets a location is not targeting only you, even if you are the only creature in that location.

A trap that throws a stone at you, I would allow you to use the AC bonus.
A trap that drops stones in an area that you are in, I would allow you to use the reaction effect.
An trap that made stones fall on the whole party, I would allow you to use the reaction effect.
I think the magnitude is important, it makes sense to me that a single rock falling on you could be blocked with your shield for the AC bonus, but not an avalanche that effects your whole group (so you get the reaction bonus).

Deciding if an effect that is not a spell or ability from the PHB, MM or DMG, is calling for targets single creatures or multiple creatures is more up to your DM than anything else though, better to ask them than me.


As a side note I would personally adjudicate "Scorching Ray" as an effect that targets only you even if the rays were aimed at different targets, because it is three separate attack rolls (but as it is an attack roll it does not call for a Dexterity save anyway, it's just an example). There is some ambiguity in this rule.

[JAL_1138]

I like your way to see the feature. But from a wording point, an AoE, which targets only me, is also included for getting the bonus. And that is my question. Also how about the case, where it perfectly makes sense ( stones are falling on you), to add the ac, right?

AoEs, by definition, do not target only you. You may be the only creature in the area of effect, but that doesn't mean they target you. They target a point, or an area, or suchlike (and in some cases are written to target the caster and then cause a cone or burst to emanate from them without including the caster in the area), but they don't target "one creature." Fireball for example targets a point within range, which is not the same as "targeting only you" even if you're the only creature in the spell's radius and there are no inanimate flammable objects in the area.

Only affecting you =/= only targeting you.

If falling stones would normally let you save for half, Shield Master would let you save for no damage instead, but you wouldn't add the shield's AC to the save.

EDIT: Shadow Monk'd.

[Tygros]

RAW none of those effects would get you the bonus. I'd personally allow it for the falling rocks, as it makes sense that you could use your shield to stop them from hitting you. I'd never allow it for the fireball though, I don't see how having your shield up in the middle of a giant inferno would help at all.