Manchester and London

[Aedilred]

I hope that all GitPers and their families are safe and were unaffected by last night's terrible events.

Know that our thoughts and sympathies are with the victims and the city as a whole at this difficult time.

[factotum]

I wasn't affected directly by it, but I live on the edge of Manchester and it's been a bit quiet and subdued here today.

[The Succubus]

Aye. Was worried about our northern UKitPers. Hope ya'll are okay.

[DyerMaker]

Thoughts and prayers to the victims, their families, and those affected by this cowardice act of terror. I too hope those in our gaming family here are safe.

[Bartmanhomer]

I feel sad and upset about this horrific event. My condolences to the victims families. I hope Arianna Grande is all right as well. :frown:

[FinnLassie]

A friend of mine lives 15 miles off of where the incident happened, and he's somewhat shaken up due to it being so... local.

All my prayers to everyone who's affected by this event.

[Togath]

While no one I personally know was affected by it, my condolences go out to those who were less fortunate.
Hopefully those injured will have a swift recovery.

[veti]

I can, just about, imagine what it must be like to wave your kids away to a concert, and then hear of news like this. Sympathies don't seem like much, but they're all I can offer.

[8BitNinja]

My condolences to all the families who lost loved ones. You are in my prayers.

[Bartmanhomer]

At least Ariana Grande is OK. :smile:

[Heliomance]

At least Ariana Grande is OK. :smile:

Dude. That's... kinda a really horrifically insensitive sentiment. Like, disgustingly so. People died, and all you can say is "at least the famous person is fine!"

[Jon_Dahl]

Dude. That's... kinda a really horrifically insensitive sentiment. Like, disgustingly so. People died, and all you can say is "at least the famous person is fine!"

I think his comment makes sense. I would gather that he didn't know and still doesn't know anyone by name who was killed, who wasn't killed in the attack, not to mention their relatives. I certainly don't! But Bartmanhomer and I know both know Ariana Grande, so we have a name and a face of a person who survived the attack. There you have it.

[Bartmanhomer]

Dude. That's... kinda a really horrifically insensitive sentiment. Like, disgustingly so. People died, and all you can say is "at least the famous person is fine!"

How is that insensitive? I really feel sympathy of the victims. At least she didn't get hurt or get killed which is a good thing. Right? :confused:

[Brother Oni]

How is that insensitive? I really feel sympathy of the victims. At least she didn't get hurt or get killed which is a good thing. Right? :confused:

It's mostly due to the inappropriate emoticon which gives the implication being that you only care about the celebrity not being hurt, not the other 22 deaths and 116 injured.

If you've read anything at all of the attack, Ariana Grande wasn't in any danger whatsoever as she was already backstage when the detonation happened in the foyer. It's not like the Bataclan attack where the band actually saw the attackers gunning down the crowd.

[Bartmanhomer]

It's mostly due to the inappropriate emoticon which gives the implication being that you only care about the celebrity not being hurt, not the other 22 deaths and 116 injured.

If you've read anything at all of the attack, Ariana Grande wasn't in any danger whatsoever as she was already backstage when the detonation happened in the foyer. It's not like the Bataclan attack where the band actually saw the attackers gunning down the crowd.

Oh I'm so sorry about that. I'll be more sensitive to victims than the celebrity. I really do feel sorry about the victims and the victims families. :frown:

[FinnLassie]

Ariana Grande has mentioned that she'd be performing again in Manchester, holding a benefit concert. Lovely gesture.

[Gwynfrid]

My prayers and wishes go to the many who died and the many more who were hurt, directly or indirectly. We live in a troubled world, and we need to stick together since this is unfortunately not the last time something this horrible happens... the same prayers and wishes go to the victims of the similar barbaric crimes in Egypt, as well.

[2D8HP]

These kinds of events just make me sad.

Other types of "current events", on the news get me to spout, "If I was President I'd..." this or that instead of whatever, but these kinds of things?

I have no ideas, only tears.

[Aedilred]

And now it's London's turn, again.

Apparently the events are still ongoing, so stay safe.

[Togath]

The details seem pretty vague so far...
Sounds like the only confirmed thing is the bridge incident(which sounds like it might be a drunk driver? Not... not that is much better than alternatives:smallfrown:). Hopefully more details will emerge.
*my hugs to those affected* it's been a rough month.

[gooddragon1]

I'd like to take this time to say that there's no excuse for what they're doing and I condemn it. My thoughts and condolences to those who were afflicted by this barbarism.

[Togath]

I'm still holding some hope it's just drunk idiots, rather than angry people trying to claim they're serving a [Banana] they don't really follow. The stuff people like bombers follow... is not really what [Banana] is.

[WarKitty]

There's been stabbings in the Borough Market area now.

At least at this point it's being officially treated as terrorism

[Roland St. Jude]

Sheriff: Please handle this thread with appropriate sensitivity and respect. Also, remember that real world religion and politics are completely prohibited on this forum.

[factotum]

It's confirmed as a terrorist incident--6 dead, the 3 attackers all shot by police, 48 injured. Picture of one of the attackers shows him wearing what looks like a bomb vest, although police say it's a fake, presumably worn in order to scare people that much more. Don't have any words for what I'm feeling right now.

[Jon_Dahl]

Most likely the terrorists will get more active next month since last July was relatively deadly in Central Europe and France.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DBd0QJJXgAEJg9I.jpg

[Brother Oni]

About the only good thing from the London attack is a picture of people being evacuated, where one man is fleeing, pint still in hand.

Even if there's a terrorist attack, nothing gets between an English person and their drink, especially if they've paid £5.50 for it.

[Ninja_Prawn]

Even if there's a terrorist attack, nothing gets between an English person and their drink, especially if they've paid £5.50 for it.

Seriously. Drinks in central London are mad expensive. I'd say "it makes me glad I'm a teetotaler," but they tend to charge just as much for soft drinks!

I'm loving the #ThingsThatLeaveBritainReeling tweets...

People pronouncing it scone, when it is actually pronounced scone. #ThingsThatLeaveBritainReeling

Toasters that aren't big enough to fit in the whole slice of toast. What is the point? #ThingsThatLeaveBritainReeling

Bake Off being sold to C4 #ThingsThatLeaveBritainReeling

And about no-go zones:

Only time Borough Market is a no-gone zone is Thursday evening after work, when you can't move for the suits spilling out of pubs

[BWR]

especially if they've paid £5.50 for it.

Bah!
Cheap!
I pay 4-5 pounds for a decent beer in the stores. In pubs and bars it's around 8 pounds. Never mind the harder things.

[gooddragon1]

Bah!
Cheap!
I pay 4-5 pounds for a decent beer in the stores. In pubs and bars it's around 8 pounds. Never mind the harder things.

Does it come in a gold plated cup on a silver platter?

[BWR]

Does it come in a gold plated cup on a silver platter?

No but I admit that high taxes on luxury goods does help fund a decent welfare state.

[Ninja_Prawn]

Does it come in a gold plated cup on a silver platter?

Some of the places I've been, you're lucky if the vessel it comes in is even clean. :smalleek:

[2D8HP]

Bah!
Cheap!
I pay 4-5 pounds for a decent beer in the stores. In pubs and bars it's around 8 pounds. Never mind the harder things.


Does it come in a gold plated cup on a silver platter?


I regularly pay $6-$8 for a pint of non-swill beer near and in San Francisco so £4.64 to £6.19.

Doesn't seem farfetched given rents in London.

Speaking of London and Londoners my hart goes to them.

[Mikemical]

Most likely the terrorists will get more active next month since last July was relatively deadly in Central Europe and France.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DBd0QJJXgAEJg9I.jpg

It's an unfortunate and monstruous act of evil to say the least. I feel sorry for the families of those affected, and hope that the responsible face the consequences of their actions, despite how some people will claim they are martyrs.

Edit: The quote I mentioned before was taken out of context, my bad.

[BWR]

Speaking of London and Londoners my hart goes to them.

You're sending them your pet deer?






Sorry, couldn't resist.

[Ninja_Prawn]

You're sending them your pet deer?






Sorry, couldn't resist.

Really, I'm more concerned about 2D8HP's hind. Won't she be lonely without her man? :smalltongue:

[2D8HP]

.


:


Oh you deers...

[gooddragon1]

No but I admit that high taxes on luxury goods does help fund a decent welfare state.

In some ways I envy that tax setup.

[pendell]

My prayers and thoughts are with London and Manchester today :(.

According to reports, three men drove a van into a crowd of people, then disembarked with knives and started stabbing people.

The police killed them all in eight minutes from the initial 999 call, so well done, Bobbies.

Even so .. why does this feel like a random encounter at the beginning of a final fantasy game? Knives?

Where's a keyblade when you need one?

Sadly,

Brian P.

[WarKitty]

Oh you deers...

Come now, this is hartly funny...

[lio45]

The police killed them all in eight minutes from the initial 999 call, so well done, Bobbies.

Clearly three random 1st Level thugs.

[Ninja_Prawn]

Even so .. why does this feel like a random encounter at the beginning of a final fantasy game?

It's even got a plucky hero (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/romanian-baker-florin-morariu-london-bridge-attack-borough-market-fought-off-terrorists-crate-a7773671.html) and that staple of video games: the crate.

"I threw the first crate and I knew he was going to dodge it. While he was dodging it, I walked towards him and hit him in the head with the other crate.” Classic combo attack, there. No one expects you to have a second crate.

[Kalmageddon]

Well, this got off topic fast...
Anyway, my sympathies for the people of Manchester and London, I've got a few friends there, who were luckily untouched by the attacks.

[BWR]

As far as I know the people I know in the area are safe, which is a relief. I always feel guilty when I think "at least no one I care about personally was affected", but I guess that's only human.

And to help distract myself from feeling bad, more humor.

From the article about the bad-ass baker:

A Spanish man tried to defend a woman who was being stabbed with a skateboard

I don't know whether be impressed at the skills of the attacker or the lack brains on his part. Or just lament/praise poor wording in general.

[FinnLassie]

All condolences and prayers to the people in London.


Watched a bit of the concert that was held to honour Manchester and London. Apparently they raised around $/£ 3 mil for the Red Cross, but someone can correct me on that.

[Aedilred]

As far as I know the people I know in the area are safe, which is a relief. I always feel guilty when I think "at least no one I care about personally was affected", but I guess that's only human.

And to help distract myself from feeling bad, more humor.

From the article about the bad-ass baker:


I don't know whether be impressed at the skills of the attacker or the lack brains on his part. Or just lament/praise poor wording in general.
I don't know if it was the same source, but I came across a very similarly-worded passage myself earlier and while my initial reaction was that it was badly worded I then wondered how one could phrase it differently. "Defended a woman with a skateboard from being stabbed" is equally ambiguous and just as clumsy. "Defended with a skateboard a woman from being stabbed" sounds like robo-police reading a statement, or worse, a legal document. I think you have to introduce a comma: "Defended a woman from being stabbed, with a skateboard", or "Defended a woman using his skateboard, against an attempt to stab her".

Unfortunately, last I heard, the skateboard hero was among the missing, though hopefully he's turned up since I checked the news at lunchtime.

[BWR]

I don't know if it was the same source, but I came across a very similarly-worded passage myself earlier and while my initial reaction was that it was badly worded I then wondered how one could phrase it differently. "Defended a woman with a skateboard from being stabbed" is equally ambiguous and just as clumsy. "Defended with a skateboard a woman from being stabbed" sounds like robo-police reading a statement, or worse, a legal document. I think you have to introduce a comma: "Defended a woman from being stabbed, with a skateboard", or "Defended a woman using his skateboard, against an attempt to stab her".

Unfortunately, last I heard, the skateboard hero was among the missing, though hopefully he's turned up since I checked the news at lunchtime.

'Used a skateboard to defend a woman being attacked' was my first thought.

[Ebon_Drake]

So, I've had a surreal couple of days since coming back from holiday. First I came back to work and found out that one of my colleagues in our Sheffield office had died in the Manchester attack. She wasn't someone I knew personally and I'm not even sure I'd ever spoken to her, but it's odd to have it brought closer to home like that. Our CEO made quite a nice statement and there's been lots of things sent round about keeping safe, as well as support for anyone that's affected by her passing.

Then today, one of my colleagues spoke to a relative of one of the victims. She was apparently lovely, but understandably very emotional and it shook up the guy who took the call pretty badly.

RIP to them both, and all the other victims.

[Random Sanity]

Seriously. Drinks in central London are mad expensive. I'd say "it makes me glad I'm a teetotaler," but they tend to charge just as much for soft drinks!

I'm loving the #ThingsThatLeaveBritainReeling tweets...


And about no-go zones:


Well, this IS the city that managed to make jokes about the Blitz in-between bombings. (Like a shop getting its frontage blown off, sweeping up the glass, and hanging out a "More Open Than Usual" sign the next morning.)

Brits are hardier than many folks give them credit for.

[Aedilred]

The rail replacement bus service inflicted on thousands of Londoners as a result of the attack (and consequently London Bridge station being closed) was the greatest crime of all. Obviously, not really. But rail replacement bus services are terrible, and Londoners were making jokes about them last time so it only seems right.
London Bridge is my nearest major interchange station and on Sunday I was trying to get out of the city, which took me longer than usual for that reason.

[veti]

Well, this IS the city that managed to make jokes about the Blitz in-between bombings. (Like a shop getting its frontage blown off, sweeping up the glass, and hanging out a "More Open Than Usual" sign the next morning.)

Brits are hardier than many folks give them credit for.

It's amazing what you'll put up with, when you have no choice because that's where you live. London has been terrorised for a long time, by people way more organised and better funded than these idiots.

I'm not saying it's not horrible and shocking. It is, and my heart goes out to those affected. But on the scale of "things that have happened to London - even in my lifetime, never mind going all the way back to the Blitz"? It's just another footnote.

[Baby Gary]

I am so sorry for those effected by this, luckily I live in the US and no one I know was effected by this. Still I wish any who were effected by these horrible events to never have to go through this sort of thing again, in fact I wish that for all people.

also I am mortified by how our ignorant president talked about the situation on twitter and how he manipulated the mayor of London's words.

also my heart goes out to all those brave heroes (they really are heroes) who, instead of running away like most, tried to stop these terror attacks before the police got to the scene. these heroes risked there lives, and some lost them, to save others, they are the type of people the world need more of.



disclaimer: I didn't read a ton about these events so if I got anything wrong please tell me but also I meant no disrespect towards anyone. also I probably used 'effected' wrong, I probably should have used 'affected'

[Ninja_Prawn]

also I probably used 'effected' wrong, I probably should have used 'affected'

Yes, you did. 'Effected' means put something into effect, as in "I effected a step change in our company's policy." A person can't really be effected; it doesn't make sense.

[Brother Oni]

Yes, you did. 'Effected' means put something into effect, as in "I effected a step change in our company's policy." A person can't really be effected; it doesn't make sense.

Actually there is a way a person can be effected, but it involves conception and an incubation time. :smalltongue:

[pendell]

There's also this guy (http://hotair.com/archives/2017/06/06/man-counter-attacked-three-london-terrorists/). Evidently he saw one of the terrorists was wearing a Manchester Arsenal shirt and that plus the four-five pints he had pushed the football hooligan button in his brain. He took on all three of them at once.

Awesome guy.

BTW, what is Millwall?

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Ninja_Prawn]

a Manchester Arsenal shirt
...
BTW, what is Millwall?

Hahahaha.

HAHAHAHAHA.

Arsenal is a football club from Northeast London with a reputation for being effete toffs. Millwall is a football club from Southeast London with a reputation for being violent thugs. Hopefully that explains it?

[pendell]

It does, actually. Thank you.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Brother Oni]

Awesome guy.

From the article, in celebration of his surviving being stabbed and slashed 8 times, his mates also bought him a gift to keep him busy while in hospital:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DBn5c4XXYAQs3sq.jpg

This is how you know they're his mates and not just friends. :smallbiggrin:

[2D8HP]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DBn5c4XXYAQs3sq.jpg

This is how you know they're his mates and not just friends. :smallbiggrin:


Courage and humour.

An island that very much "punches above it's weight" indeed.

(Also thanks for the language)

[Brother Oni]

Unfortunately, last I heard, the skateboard hero was among the missing, though hopefully he's turned up since I checked the news at lunchtime.

Unfortunately they found him (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40188567).

[gooddragon1]

Courage and humour.

An island that very much "punches above it's weight" indeed.

(Also thanks for the language)

Even jojo recognizes it's importance. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAFKwoWaocI)

[2D8HP]

...him[/URL].


Warning: I had tears after viewing that link.

If you cry easily, I would avoid it.

[Heliomance]

Well, this IS the city that managed to make jokes about the Blitz in-between bombings. (Like a shop getting its frontage blown off, sweeping up the glass, and hanging out a "More Open Than Usual" sign the next morning.)

Brits are hardier than many folks give them credit for.

What do you mean, "hardier than many folks give us credit for"? Stiff upper lip, keep calm and carry on... the stereotypes about Brits are all rooted in our stoicism.

It's a really interesting cultural difference between the US and the UK. The general American response to something like this, so far as I can tell, is along the lines of "And if you wrong us, shall we not revenge?"

The general British response is "Is that all you've got?"

[Ninja_Prawn]

What do you mean, "hardier than many folks give us credit for"? Stiff upper lip, keep calm and carry on... the stereotypes about Brits are all rooted in our stoicism.

It's weird, but I think both stereotypes exist at the same time. Perhaps there's a sense that the 'stiff upper lip' stuff is actually a bit of an act, while we're quite fragile underneath? I mean, when you watch English sports teams in international competition, you're liable to see people crumbling under the pressure and collapsing to miserable defeats.

But I think you're right that Londoners are unfazed by terror attacks in a way that Americans often aren't. Probably the legacy of the IRA, as veti mentioned.

[Heliomance]

It's weird, but I think both stereotypes exist at the same time. Perhaps there's a sense that the 'stiff upper lip' stuff is actually a bit of an act, while we're quite fragile underneath? I mean, when you watch English sports teams in international competition, you're liable to see people crumbling under the pressure and collapsing to miserable defeats.

But I think you're right that Londoners are unfazed by terror attacks in a way that Americans often aren't. Probably the legacy of the IRA, as veti mentioned.

I'm not convinced - I'm too young to remember the IRA and the Troubles, at 28, and I think most of my peers and younger are equally unfazed.

[Ninja_Prawn]

I'm not convinced - I'm too young to remember the IRA and the Troubles, at 28, and I think most of my peers and younger are equally unfazed.

Really? I'm 28 as well (high five!), and I remember the IRA attacks in the early-mid 90s. Besides, it feels to me like there's a kind of 'collective memory' that tells us that we've survived worse and the recent incidents pale in comparison to IRA violence or, indeed, the Blitz.

[Vinyadan]

It might be an effect of the 2005 bombing. Then more than 50 people died and over 700 were wounded. It sounds weird to say, but when such a thing happens, it turns into a more or less conscious benchmark for everything thereafter.

[Ninja_Prawn]

It might be an effect of the 2005 bombing. Then more than 50 people died and over 700 were wounded. It sounds weird to say, but when such a thing happens, it turns into a more or less conscious benchmark for everything thereafter.

True, but I was in London for 7/7 (in fact I was on the Circle line out of Liverpool street at about 8:30, albeit westbound, so it's very close to home), and even then there wasn't much panic. Mostly it was a kind of grim "ugh, how are we supposed to get home now?" Certainly everyone was back to normal the next day.

[2D8HP]

It's weird, but I think both stereotypes exist at the same time


For this American, when I was growing up, there were four general stereotypes of Britons three of which were unfazeable:

1) Supercompetant heroes
Bond, Holmes, etc.

2) Upperclass twits
Colonel Rodney Crittendon in Hogan's Heroes
Misguided incompetent fools, but good hearted. "Lawful stupid" in D&D terms. Elan-ish.

3) Lower class rogues
Corporal Peter Newkirk in Hogan's Heroes
Criminals with hearts of gold.
Basically Haley from OotS. "Chaotic Good-ish". Often played by Michael Caine.

4) Villians
Bad landlords and thugs, basically like American villians, just different accents.

Generally (as far as I can tell) Americans have positive stereotypes of Britons.The only people that Americans like more are Australians who seem like cowboy Brits to us (when we can tell the difference).

The only real negative stereotypes of the British (rightly or wrongly), are that you insist on stopping for tea breaks no matter what , heavy drinkers (but that you seem to be relatively unaffected by the alcohol is admired), bad cooks, and bad teeth ("I'll make you look at the book of British smiles").

Mostly Americans think of Britons as people who won't back down from a fight no matter the odds, but will stop briefly for a cup or a pint, before continuing to fight.

No idea how that fits Britons self-image.

[Ninja_Prawn]

Australians who seem like cowboy Brits

I love this. Australians are absolutely cowboy Brits. :smallbiggrin:


Mostly Americans think of Britons as people who won't back down from a fight no matter the odds, but will stop briefly for a cup or a pint, before continuing to fight.

No idea how that fits Britons self-image.

There are certainly lots of Brits who'd approve of this myth.

[pendell]

For this American, when I was growing up, there were four general stereotypes of Britons three of which were unfazeable:

1) Supercompetant heroes
Bond, Holmes, etc.

2) Upperclass twits
Colonel Rodney Crittendon in Hogan's Heroes
Misguided incompetent fools, but good hearted. "Lawful stupid" in D&D terms. Elan-ish.

3) Lower class rogues
Corporal Peter Newkirk in Hogan's Heroes
Criminals with hearts of gold.
Basically Haley from OotS. "Chaotic Good-ish". Often played by Michael Caine.

4) Villians
Bad landlords and thugs, basically like American villians, just different accents.

Generally (as far as I can tell) Americans have positive stereotypes of Britons.The only people that Americans like more are Australians who seem like cowboy Brits to us (when we can tell the difference).

The only real negative stereotypes of the British (rightly or wrongly), are that you insist on stopping for tea breaks no matter what , heavy drinkers (but that you seem to be relatively unaffected by the alcohol is admired), bad cooks, and bad teeth ("I'll make you look at the book of British smiles").

Mostly Americans think of Britons as people who won't back down from a fight no matter the odds, but will stop briefly for a cup or a pint, before continuing to fight.

No idea how that fits Britons self-image.


Actually, when I was growing up (1970s)Brits were the villains in pretty much every story. Redcoats were what we used as standard villains before there were Nazis.

You can still see some of that stereotype of the super-competent British villain in the Star Wars movies: Grand Moff Tarkin probably being the class example. Arrogant, competent, cultured, utterly incapable of mercy.

You also see the same in Mel Gibson movies like Highlander and the Patriot. Again, I would single out the character of Tavington from the Patriot (which was, as I understand it, a total character assassination of the real Tarleton), burning down churches with people still inside them. Much like Tarkin: Cultured, ruthless, capable of any atrocity on the way to achieving his goals.

I would say "Evil, wealthy, British supervillain" was a staple of American fiction. The plucky underdog heroes with terrible equipment but plenty of grit would go up against an overwhelmingly powerful enemy led by cultured, ruthless villains. This continued right up to the 1950s, when we had a gradual changeover to positive depictions of the Brits a la James Bond, and their place in the rogue's gallery of staple cinematic villains was taken by the Nazis. That's part of the reason the US was isolationist back in the 1910s-1940s -- because we'd have to side with either the British or the Germans, and to an early century American, especially one of Irish descent, that was a choice between Asmodeus and Orcus.


Here's a hint of the attitude: Back in the 1920s-30s the US armed forces prepared a series of contingency war plans against various nations. One of the highest priority ones --
War Plan Red (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Plan_Red) -- was against the UK.

And when we signed the Washington Naval Treaty (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_Naval_Treaty) with Japan and the UK, it wasn't because we were best buddies. It was because we were naval rivals hoping to reduce the tensions a naval arms race would bring.

These attitudes only started to change after we were allied with the UK for multiple generations -- and some of the old attitude still slips through, from time to time.




Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Asmodean_]

I love this. Australians are absolutely cowboy Brits. :smallbiggrin:

Am Australian, can confirm.

Yee haw.

[Ninja_Prawn]

This continued right up to the 1950s

When did Alan Rickman play the villain in Die Hard again? :smalltongue:

[Spanish_Paladin]

So proud of my countryman, Ignacio Echevarria, who died trying to save a girl from the terrorists. Even in the face of terror and evil mankind shows bravery and altruism.

[2D8HP]

Actually, when I was growing up (1970s)Brits were the villains in pretty much every story...


I (born in '68) remember the villians as usually being Germans (or "East Germans"), followed by Russians, Japanese, and Red Chinese, but they were usually played by Brits (yes even the "Asians") with accents intact.
Also the "Romans" were usually Brits, and the "Hebrews" were usually Americans.


...to an early century American, especially one of Irish descent, that was a choice between Asmodeus and Orcus.


Since both my dad (of Irish Catholic descent) and my step dad (of Russian Jewish descent) are Clancy Brothers fans, I learned that as well, and I might have inherited that tradition but for my mom's father being of English descent.

I had a co-worker for two years (he's still assigned to my building every so often) who grew up in Belfast and sings IRA anthems while he's mixing paint (but also Beatles and Rolling Stones songs), and he describes his wife's mother as "More English than the Queen".

Another co-worker is Jewish amd grew up in the Soviet Union, and while he has said anti-muslim things from time to time, his "best man" (that he supervises) grew up in Iran and is Muslim, and they're always joking with each other.

We all carpool together.


When did Alan Rickman play the villain in Die Hard again? :smalltongue:


Don't forget Jeremy Irons in the sequel!


So proud of my countryman, Ignacio Echevarria, who died trying to save a girl from the terrorists. Even in the face of terror and evil mankind shows bravery and altruism.


Since my mind is infected with pop culture, on reading of this real life hero, I thought of Inigo Montoya in The Princess Bride, and Don Juan de Maraña as played by Errol Flynn in 1948.

[Brother Oni]

The general British response is "Is that all you've got?"

I would think that it would be more correctly phrased as "Come and have a go if you think you're hard enough".

Another interesting part of our mindset is with the typically British rude gesture of two fingers. Unlike the more widely known middle finger which is used to express contempt, the two fingers is used to express defiance.

As the myth goes, it comes from the French cutting those two fingers off English archers during the Hundred Years War, so that they couldn't draw their bows, thus intact archers used to display their fingers at the French before battle to indicate "I still have my fingers and I'm going to kill you!".


Really? I'm 28 as well (high five!), and I remember the IRA attacks in the early-mid 90s. Besides, it feels to me like there's a kind of 'collective memory' that tells us that we've survived worse and the recent incidents pale in comparison to IRA violence or, indeed, the Blitz.

Aside from the actual attacks, I'm old enough to remember the 'no bins in public places' and seeing my cousin check under his car as he hadn't lost the habit yet from his tour of duty as bomb disposal in Northern Ireland.



The only real negative stereotypes of the British (rightly or wrongly), are that you insist on stopping for tea breaks no matter what , heavy drinkers (but that you seem to be relatively unaffected by the alcohol is admired), bad cooks, and bad teeth ("I'll make you look at the book of British smiles").

Mostly Americans think of Britons as people who won't back down from a fight no matter the odds, but will stop briefly for a cup or a pint, before continuing to fight.


Our habit for stopping for tea breaks did really wind up the Americans during WW2 - after clearing the beaches during D-Day, rather than carry on the momentum, British (and to a lesser extent, Canadian) soldiers stopped for a brew up as they had felt they had 'done their bit'.

That said, every AFV in the British Army is equipped with a boiling vessel (ie kettle) to provide hot water, which was very popular with Americans allies during recent conflicts. Just make sure you see them dispense it in front of you as some tankies got annoyed with the constant requests and *cough* used their genitalia to anoint the requester's cup before putting the hot water in (I forget the slang for it).

[veti]

Actually, when I was growing up (1970s)Brits were the villains in pretty much every story. Redcoats were what we used as standard villains before there were Nazis.

You can still see some of that stereotype of the super-competent British villain in the Star Wars movies: Grand Moff Tarkin probably being the class example. Arrogant, competent, cultured, utterly incapable of mercy.

Yep, and that was 1977. Brits-as-villains continued to be the standard in American movies and TV well into the 90s. I remember, in the (generally awful) 1995 thriller The Net, thinking "villain" as soon as the British guy opened his mouth. I was right, too.

In 1997, when I first saw Buffy, I remember being quite surprised that Giles wasn't a villain. I spent much of the first two seasons waiting for the mask to drop.


You also see the same in Mel Gibson movies like Highlander and the Patriot. Again, I would single out the character of Tavington from the Patriot (which was, as I understand it, a total character assassination of the real Tarleton),

Gibson has - personal issues. There's a very strong anti-English (specifically) animus in his movies, like Braveheart (which I think you meant, rather than Highlander), The Patriot, Conspiracy Theory. He even manages it in Pocahontas, where he's playing (theoretically) an Englishman. Heck, he even manages to infuse his contempt into Chicken Run, which is a British movie.

[Vinyadan]

That explains why in an episode Father Ted was reading The Life of Mel Gibson...

[Random Sanity]

Our habit for stopping for tea breaks did really wind up the Americans during WW2 - after clearing the beaches during D-Day, rather than carry on the momentum, British (and to a lesser extent, Canadian) soldiers stopped for a brew up as they had felt they had 'done their bit'.


Not that said break stopped the Canadians from punching 12 miles inland on D-Day - if that's not "doing your bit", I don't know what is.


(EDIT) And I should have phrased myself better: My "many people" comment was mainly a swipe at the media, who seem hellbent on portraying every random act of violence as terrorists preying on frightened, helpless civilians. Frankly, when I heard the initial reports about panicked crowds and whatnot, I had to wonder if they were actually talking about London, England. Then I saw the photo of the guy with the beer: "Yup, that's London."

[Ninja_Prawn]

Frankly, when I heard the initial reports about panicked crowds and whatnot, I had to wonder if they were actually talking about London, England.

Every drop you spill from an £8 glass of beer is legitimate cause for panic!