+0 LA +wis templates?

[jdizzlean]

are there any good 0LA +wis templates for a druid ?
MUST be a non-evil template
all sources allowed, eberron is frowned on, but can be argued for

I've been playing a druid that was going to go MoMF/Warshaper, but I don't like the direction it's going so I'm doing a slight rebuild towards full druid instead.

I'm keeping all the same rolls/skills and will be changing the feats and my general spell selection. Currently lvl 5, just looking to refluff to a more caster based, instead of martial based beatstickery.

not that it matters, but the rest of the group is warlock, warblade, anthrowolf archer, rogue, and warpriest

of course this changes my whole feat train on the character as well

I'll be reviewing eggy's handbook, but i don't recall any template info in there

[jdizzlean]

and/or if there is a +1 LA race or template i suppose I could take to replace my current race (Changeling), but that might be more of an arguement as that's a fairly larger change then just feats or a +0 template.

of course, i might be able to stack a single +0 onto a +1, but not more then that.

We get a free +1 LA if you want at creation

[noob]

Anthropomorphic bat?
forgot if it did wisdom.

[flappeercraft]

Anthropomorphic bat?
forgot if it did wisdom.

It does, +6 to wisdom IIRC. Its from SS (Savage Species)

[jdizzlean]

not sure i'll be able to do that, so let's assume no anthro bat on the table, then what?

[Jormengand]

No LA +0 templates provide a bonus to wisdom. The base races which provide no LA and a bonus to wisdom are the lesser aasimar, anthropomorphic bat/lizard/monkey/rat/raven/toad/weasel, lesser axani, buomman, jermlaine, khepri, lesser ice paragenasi, pterran, and lesser zenythri.

[Deadline]

not sure i'll be able to do that, so let's assume no anthro bat on the table, then what?

I vaguely recall some templates in Dragon magazine that might do it, but I'm not sure they'd be allowed sources (and I don't have them handy at the moment).

[eggynack]

I'll be reviewing eggy's handbook, but i don't recall any template info in there
I have them listed in the basics section, underneath races. Should really consider making it clearer what's hanging out in that part of the handbook. Anyways, I'm reasonably confident that wisdom boosting races are not available at +0. The straightforward reason for this is that the list of +0 LA templates is really frigging short. There's a reasonably complete list here (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=1281.0), close to the bottom of the overall index, and it has eleven things on it, most of whom I would not personally classify as +0 LA, as they require levels and such. There're a few more hanging out in dragon magazines, but not a huge number, and I've found none with +wis. Some of them are quite strong, and you should definitely look into them if templating is a thing you're interested in, but they're not the must take they would be had they this quality.

+1 LA might yield more results, particularly as I haven't much researched them for obvious reasons. Perhaps the closest I can think of offhand is saint, which is a +2 template that offers +2 wisdom. The real benefit is all the other stuff, but I'd hesitate to claim that the overall offerings are generally advantageous, especially with the other restrictions on entrance. The best option along these lines would indeed be a racial swap. Not even necessarily to something with +wisdom. I'm always pointing out the half-orc option (dragonborn desert half-orc if you want the best version of that), and shifter is pretty close to your current racial choice, offers its wisdom bonus only occasionally, but is also great for various reasons.

You probably don't need to worry about this too much, in any case. The party makeup seems like it'd be significantly weaker than an optimized druid, even without a good racial choice. I tend to think of racial choice as being worth somewhere between one and 2.5 feats, as a general construct. By which I mean, you have human as a pretty great option always that's clearly worth about a feat, you have other superior options that get you over human by maybe .5 to 1 feats, and then a bad racial choice can put you below zero by .5 to 1 feats. Overall spread is usually going to look like 2.5 at most, I think. Point being, it's useful stuff, but it's not end all and be all. Good spell selection and feat allocation can be more than sufficient to make a spellcasting druid effective, as long as you have at least reasonable wisdom. And, y'know, maybe even if you don't. I always love to point out that a druid intelligently built from starting construction forward can operate off of eleven starting wisdom if necessary, and that after racial adjustments, only losing access to second level spells at third level.

Anthropomorphic bat?
forgot if it did wisdom.
That's a race rather than a template, though it is excellent, with a +6 to wisdom at +0 LA and no RHD.

[lylsyly]

... lesser axani ...

I know where the Axani are ... but Lesser Axani? Do you have a specific source for that?

[GilesTheCleric]

I know where the Axani are ... but Lesser Axani? Do you have a specific source for that?

If Axani are Planetouched, then it would be applying Lesser Planetouched from PGtF 191 (iirc) to them.

[jdizzlean]

no race chosen yet, i do have it rebuilt to anthro bat, we'll see what the DM says about that
for feats i went w/ Flyby Attack, and Ashbound Summoning.

Greenbound is way more powerful, but if I were GM, I'd ban it, so I'm not going to ask...

moving on, of course is natural spell at 6, probably craft wonderous at 9, then I'm not sure, but maybe still spell, and/or some metamagic ones.

https://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=1218643

Still have to reconfigure my spell slots. I usually just list the ones i'm going to use all the time, and then go with it rather then try to guess what's coming up and switch it up on a daily basis.

[Baby Gary]

I'm currently playing a druid and I stongly advise against taking craft wonderous item and fly-by attack. im currently 9th level and my feats are metamagic extend (this is super usefull for you summons and your day-long buffs) ashbound (also for summons) natral spell (this is self explanatory) and greenbound summoning.

I would recomend NOT being an antho bat, beacause if your DM is anything like mine he will only allow a certain amount of cheese, and aberation wild shape is nicer than +6 wiz (im my opinion anyway) also this might allow you to get away with things like greenbound or rashi elemental summoning or the perviously mentioned aberation wild shape.

also a coulpe tips. 1) lessar planetouched are super nice and low on the cheese meter 2) get your self a ring of the beast and a peral of speach and a monks belt 3) don't spend your money on weapons or armor, there are things like monks belt, luminios armor and desmudo hunting bats 4) id recomend being a BFC, a summoner, or a mixture of both, of corse with a little bit of buffs/debuffs in there. and finaly 5)don't forget your animal companion.

good luck and kill stuff (in D&D, not IRL)

Baby Gary

[Matrota]

Take a look at this website (http://minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=176.0) for a master list of sources to buff up ability scores. There are no templates I can think of, except maybe starting with a level in commoner and taking the commoner flaw weresheep, which grants you the lycanthrope template for a sheep in exchange for being affected by the "delicious" flaw in hybrid and sheep form.

[jdizzlean]

I'm currently playing a druid and I stongly advise against taking craft wonderous item and fly-by attack. im currently 9th level and my feats are metamagic extend (this is super usefull for you summons and your day-long buffs) ashbound (also for summons) natral spell (this is self explanatory) and greenbound summoning.

I've basically been told flat out that wildling clasps are "super rare, and the druids that have them won't be likely to give them up" so either i make them myself, or go w/o..

I took flyby attack, since anthro bat has wings, it would make sense that i should be able to use them in combat, and a moving target is better then a stationary one casting spells..

I won't be able to become a desmudo bat for example, until we encounter one, and that hasn't happened so far..



I would recommend NOT being an antho bat, because if your DM is anything like mine he will only allow a certain amount of cheese, and aberation wild shape is nicer than +6 wiz (in my opinion anyway) also this might allow you to get away with things like greenbound or rashi elemental summoning or the previously mentioned aberation wild shape.

also w/ wildshape, he has specifically stated that i must have familiarity with something to become that something, I can't access familiarity through books in the library, or by talking to someone else about said creature. It pretty much would come down to, have we encountered said animal/creature in some way before. This is part of the reason I want to move from MoMF back to caster based, as I'm limited in forms. He outright banned fleshraker for example.

w/ an anthro wolf already in the party, i would think i could at least make the argument for granting anthro bat. the hard part would be how do i change all of a sudden from a changeling to a anthro... assuming he would want to play that out?

Plus, as i stated, I won't pursue greenbound summoning, it reads like it breaks the game. Optimization is great, but you should still have limits, even if you have to impose them on yourself



also a couple tips. 1) lessar planetouched are super nice and low on the cheese meter 2) get your self a ring of the beast and a peral of speach and a monks belt 3) don't spend your money on weapons or armor, there are things like monks belt, luminios armor and desmudo hunting bats 4) id recomend being a BFC, a summoner, or a mixture of both, of corse with a little bit of buffs/debuffs in there. and finaly 5)don't forget your animal companion.

good luck and kill stuff (in D&D, not IRL)

Baby Gary

monk's belt is on the list, but 5 levels in i have a combined wealth of only just barely over 6k gold and so far my only magic item is a collar of +1 to natural attacks that my AC wears. Luminous armor is something i considered early on, but it would require an alignment change, which i'm not willing to do w/ the character.


Take a look at this website (http://minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=176.0) for a master list of sources to buff up ability scores. There are no templates I can think of, except maybe starting with a level in commoner and taking the commoner flaw weresheep, which grants you the lycanthrope template for a sheep in exchange for being affected by the "delicious" flaw in hybrid and sheep form.

I don't know if I can take different levels that what I have taken (druid 5), I'm trying to refluff, not completely rebuild. I did look at that lycanthropy thing, but I would imagine that would be a moral debate w/ myself since technically lycanthropy is unnatural, and a druid is a tree hugger that disdains the unnatural, at least imo.

[Vizzerdrix]

Not a template, but BOED has a critter you can kill for a perminent +2 wis and some othe perks. Got to piss off a god thouh.

[noob]

Well the critter in question is awesome if you make of it your friend since only you can harm it or restrain his mobility.

[jdizzlean]

name of this critter?
link to it?

[remetagross]

It's the Aleax.

[jdizzlean]

he took all changes, thanks for all the help :)