[3.5] Is there no Caster Level requirement for making Armor and Wondrous items?

[prototype00]

Whew, it's been a week for questions, so thanks for helping me out yet again!

Of course for spell trigger items you need a certain CL to craft them as the spell being cast needs a level to cast it at, but I've been reviewing the SRD, and the only requirement they list for Wondrous Items is the appropriate feat and spell (and money and xp of course).

I mean you could have your higher level colleague at the guild casting the spells for you or UMD it off a scroll if you needed.

Did I miss something or is the CL listed for Wondrous Items and Weapons Armour just for resisting dispel magic?

Edit: Ah, you have to be 3x the enhancement bonus. But is the CL listed with the special abilities also one of the requirements?

[ksbsnowowl]

From the DMG errata:


Caster Level
Dungeon Master’s Guide, page 215
Problem: The last two sentences in the section on Caster Level are ambiguous and potentially misleading.
Solution: Replace with this text: For other magic items, the caster level is determined by the creator. The minimum caster level is that which is needed to meet the prerequisites given.

The bolded portion covers your wondrous items and armor special abilities.

As for Armor enhancement bonuses and special abilities:

Caster Level for Armor and Shields:
The caster level of a magic shield or magic armor with a special ability is given in the item description. For an item with only an enhancement bonus, the caster level is three times the enhancement bonus. If an item has both an enhancement bonus and a special ability, the higher of the two caster level requirements must be met.

[Shalist]

Reposting from a similar question a while back, but here's everything there is about CL requirements on item creation:




Magic Item Descriptions

Caster Level (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicItemBasics.htm#casterLevel)

The next item in a notational entry gives the caster level of the item, indicating its relative power. The caster level determines the item’s saving throw bonus, as well as range or other level-dependent aspects of the powers of the item (if variable). It also determines the level that must be contended with should the item come under the effect of a dispel magic spell or similar situation. This information is given in the form "CL x," where "CL" is an abbreviation for caster level and "x" is an ordinal number representing the caster level itself.

For potions, scrolls, and wands, the creator can set the caster level of an item at any number high enough to cast the stored spell and not higher than her own caster level. For other magic items, the caster level is determined by the creator. The minimum caster level is that which is needed to meet the prerequisites given.

Prerequisites

Certain requirements must be met in order for a character to create a magic item. These include feats, spells, and miscellaneous requirements such as level, alignment, and race or kind. The prerequisites for creation of an item are given immediately following the item’s caster level.


So you're right, the CL given in an item's description is -not- a prerequisite, i.e. 'sovereign glue (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#sovereignGlue)' being CL 20 just means it's incredibly difficult to dispel, not that a high priest / archwizard is needed to make some. Now, moving on to actual CL prereqs:


Creating Magic Items (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm)

...

...


While item creation costs are handled in detail below, note that normally the two primary factors are the caster level of the creator and the level of the spell or spells put into the item. A creator can create an item at a lower caster level than her own, but never lower than the minimum level needed to cast the needed spell. Using metamagic feats, a caster can place spells in items at a higher level than normal.

Creating Magic Armor (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm#creatingMagicArmor)

Creating magic armor has a special prerequisite: The creator’s caster level must be at least three times the enhancement bonus of the armor. If an item has both an enhancement bonus and a special ability, the higher of the two caster level requirements must be met.

Creating Magic Weapons (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm#creatingMagicWeapons)

Creating a magic weapon has a special prerequisite: The creator’s caster level must be at least three times the enhancement bonus of the weapon. If an item has both an enhancement bonus and a special ability the higher of the two caster level requirements must be met.

Creating staffs (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm#creatingStaffs)

If desired, a spell can be placed into the staff at only half the normal cost, but then activating that particular spell costs 2 charges from the staff. The caster level of all spells in a staff must be the same, and no staff can have a caster level of less than 8th, even if all the spells in the staff are low-level spells.

Intelligent Item Creation (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm#intelligentItemCreation)

To create an intelligent item, a character must have a caster level of 15th or higher.

So yeah, either 3x the enhancement bonus -or- (if applicable) whatever is needed to cast the spell.

Also very much worth a mention, the "Consolidated List of "Bargain Bin" Spells for Artificers (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=12661)," which lists all the spells that can be found at a lower level via this or that domain / class spell list / etc., i.e. haste as a level 1 spell via 'Trapsmith' (Dungeonscape).

And regarding teamwork:


Note that all items have prerequisites in their descriptions. These prerequisites must be met for the item to be created. Most of the time, they take the form of spells that must be known by the item’s creator (although access through another magic item or spellcaster is allowed)

For that matter, you don't even need to be a spellcaster to craft items, so long as you have some help:


For feats or prestige classes requiring a minimum caster level, creatures that use spell-like abilities or invocations instead of spells use either their fixed caster level or their class level to determine qualification.

For example, Craft Wondrous Item has a requirement of caster level 3rd, so both a 3rd-level warlock and a nixie (caster level 4th for its charm person spell-like ability) meet the requirement.

[prototype00]

From the DMG errata:



The bolded portion covers your wondrous items and armor special abilities.

As for Armor enhancement bonuses and special abilities:

Ah, it was in the errata! That makes sense.

But then follow up question, some weapons/Wondrous items have Caster levels listed that are far in excess of either the spell required or the feat required to create the item (like bodyfeeder has Vampiric Touch, 3rd level spell and Craft Arms and Armor, requires 5th Caster level, but a CL for the item of 9th), in this case can you just create it as a 5th level Caster?

[ksbsnowowl]

Ah, it was in the errata! That makes sense.

But then follow up question, some weapons/Wondrous items have Caster levels listed that are far in excess of either the spell required or the feat required to create the item (like bodyfeeder has Vampiric Touch, 3rd level spell and Craft Arms and Armor, requires 5th Caster level, but a CL for the item of 9th), in this case can you just create it as a 5th level Caster?

You can, but it would be at 5th caster level for all purposes (Dispelling, mainly). The listed CL in the item descriptions is just the assumed CL for a randomly-found item of that type.

[prototype00]

That is perfectly clear, thanks to yourself and Shalist.

[KillianHawkeye]

You can, but it would be at 5th caster level for all purposes (Dispelling, mainly). The listed CL in the item descriptions is just the assumed CL for a randomly-found item of that type.

It is not written anywhere in the rules that you use your own Caster Level in place of the listed one for items that have arbitrarily given Caster Levels. You might have that as a house rule, but it isn't a very good one IMO.

[prototype00]

It is not written anywhere in the rules that you use your own Caster Level in place of the listed one for items that have arbitrarily given Caster Levels. You might have that as a house rule, but it isn't a very good one IMO.

So does that mean you believe that the CL listed with the item is a requirement for crafting it? Because that is not written anywhere in the rules either (or show it to me if I missed it)?

[Telonius]

The "caster level" part of the magic item description is not the same thing as the caster level of the creator.

Items have several possible pieces of information in their descriptions: Aura, caster level, prerequisites, market price, cost to create, and weight. For many items, the caster level of the item is the same thing as the level the creator would have to be in order to create the item, but this is not always the case. From the SRD:


aster Level
The next item in a notational entry gives the caster level of the item, indicating its relative power. The caster level determines the item’s saving throw bonus, as well as range or other level-dependent aspects of the powers of the item (if variable). It also determines the level that must be contended with should the item come under the effect of a dispel magic spell or similar situation. This information is given in the form "CL x," where "CL" is an abbreviation for caster level and "x" is an ordinal number representing the caster level itself.

For potions, scrolls, and wands, the creator can set the caster level of an item at any number high enough to cast the stored spell and not higher than her own caster level. For other magic items, the caster level is determined by the creator. The minimum caster level is that which is needed to meet the prerequisites given.

Scrolls, potions, and wands are priced assuming the lowest possible caster level, as a default, but they don't have to be the lowest level possible. (If you look at the SRD's list of wands, it lists prices for various levels of Magic Missile, for example). Other items (particularly Wondrous Items) aren't listed at the lowest possible caster level. For example, Sovereign Glue is an item with caster level 20. If you buy some off the rack, it counts as level 20 if it happens to get hit with a Dispel. But it would be possible to make it at a much lower CL than that; CL 3 would allow you to both cast the required spell (Make Whole, a 2nd-level Cleric spell) and meet the Feat prerequisite (Craft Wondrous Item). You could create Sovereign Glue at any caster level between 3 and whatever caster level you have. It wouldn't change the effect of the glue, just change how easy it is to dispel it, and how much it costs to make it.