Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXXVI

[Heliomance]

A dimly-lit library. Rows of bookshelves line the walls, and as the camera slowly pans over them, we see that they are filled with gaming books. From the original brown-cover D&D manuals to the newest fifth edition supplements, we are given a brief but breathtaking history of over four decades of gaming in visual form.

A pair of feet, clad in Converse, appear. The camera pans back to reveal the Chairwoman as she strides out into Optimization Stadium. Slowly, she looks around at the battleground. Rapidly, we are shown shots of the gaming materials here assembled: books, miniatures, maps, dice. The Chairwoman reaches down and picks up a twenty-sided die. She rolls it, then turns to the camera... and smiles.

The camera pulls back from the smile to reveal... the Iron Gamers. Row upon row they stand, clad in the uniform of their trade: t-shirts with fantasy images, buttons with obscure quotes from novels and movies, dice bags at the ready. The shot dissolves into flames and the logo:


Iron Gamer

A montage of the contestants plays, with summaries of their optimization triumphs and achievements. Interspersed are brief interviews. Finally, though, the introductions are over. The contestants stand arrayed before the Chairwoman.

Chairwoman: We unveil the ingredient!

Tense music plays as the pedestal containing the mystery ingredient rises from below. Stacked neatly on the pedestal are copies of Shattered Gates of Slaughtergarde.

Chairwoman: From the sea to the sky! This month's theme is... Twisted Lord! ALLEZ OPTIMISER!


-----------------------------------------------------------------

Welcome, contestants, judges, and guests to Iron Chef LXXXIV. Here in Optimisation Colosseum, contestants will endeavour to create an optimized and flavourful character using a specified D&D3.5 prestige class as a "Secret Ingredient".

Contestants: You will need to present a full 20-level build for your entry. Also required is a rundown of how your build works at lower levels, to demonstrate that it is a functional character that could be played from 1-20 in a real game. Traditionally contestants give "snapshots" of tactics and abilities at levels 5, 10, 15, and 20, as well as a "sweet spot" of their choosing that represents what they believe to be the high point of the build. The purpose of these snapshots is not just to showcase your use of the SI, it is to demonstrate that your character is playable at every level. For this reason, it's still worth giving a snapshot before you have entered the SI.

Menu: The "special ingredient" can be drawn from any legal source. Originally, the plan was to mostly use Core and Completes, but that was a long time ago, and we've started running out of interesting classes to use if we restrict ourselves to those.

32 point-buy is the presumed creation method, but we have generally allowed other levels of point-buy.
If you do use a different point-buy, please make your case for its necessity in your entry. Keep in mind that for using exceptionally large or small point-buys may warrant deductions in elegance and/or power.

Kitchen: Competitors will be free to use any official 3.5 rulebook in constructing their builds. Dragon magazine is disallowed, and Unearthed Arcana is allowed; but see Elegance below. Web-exclusive 3.0 or 3.5 materials by WotC are expressly allowed, but take care to verify that an updated version did not appear in print elsewhere, as this may cause an Elegance deduction at the judges' discretion. Alternate rule systems from UA such as gestalt or Generic Classes are not allowed, as they create a different playing field. Also, item familiars are forbidden because I hate 'em. Please refrain from using Taint unless it's necessary for the Secret Ingredient.
NB: Official Errata and 3.5 updates to 3.0 content are considered valid regardless of whether their sources would otherwise be legal. This includes the 3.5 update of Oriental Adventures given in Dragon Magazine, and the 3.5 updates of Dragonlance Campaign Setting content given in later third party Dragonlance books.

Cooking Time: Contestants will have until 07:59 GMT on Tuesday, June 6th, 2017 to create their builds and PM them to the Chairwoman, Heliomance. Please put the name of your build in the subject line of your PM. Builds will then be posted simultaneously, to avoid copying. Judges will have until 07:59 GMT on Tuesday, June 20th, 2017 to judge the builds and submit their scores. If no judges have scored by that point, only the scores of the first judge to submit will be counted.

Judging: Judging will be based on the following criteria, with each build rated on a scale from 1 (very poor) to 5 (exemplary) in each area: Originality, Power, Elegance, Use of Secret Ingredient.

Power level is up to you. Cheese is acceptable, but should be kept to a sane level unless you're showcasing a new TO build you've discovered. In the words of one of my predecessors, a little cheddar can be nice, but avoid the mature Gruyere unless you're making a cheese fondue.
Elegance could bear a little elaboration. It basically measures how skillfully you put your build together, and whether you sacrificed flavor for power. We're cooking here - if your dish doesn't taste good, it doesn't matter how well-presented it is. Use of flaws is considered in poor taste, and judges are asked to take a dim view of this option, taking it into account while grading. Other things that will cause penalties here are excessive multi-classing, and classes that don't fit the concept - using Cloistered Cleric in a front-line melee fighter, for example, will lose you points.Please note the following change: a legal source's relative obscurity should not be considered as penalizing Elegance, excepting the aforementioned issues with Unearthed Arcana. Using too many sources may result in a penalty to Elegance at the judges' discretion, but a book's relative obscurity may not. In that same vein, drawing solely from the Core 3 (and the d20 SRD) should not be punished for lacking Originality.
Presentation: Builds will be posted anonymously, in order to avoid the potential of bias towards a particular competitor. For this reason, please don't put your name in the build, as I'm likely to miss it when reviewing the entries!

Due to concerns about standardizing entry format, I'd like everyone to try to use the following table for their entry.NAME OF ENTRY


Level
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Skills
Feats
Class Features


1st
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


2nd
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


3rd
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


4th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


5th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


6th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


7th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


8th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


9th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


10th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


11th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


12th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


13th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


14th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


15th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


16th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


17th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


18th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


19th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


20th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities



Code immediately below (spoiler).

Level
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Skills
Feats
Class Features


1st
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


2nd
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


3rd
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


4th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


5th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


6th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


7th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


8th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


9th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


10th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


11th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


12th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


13th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


14th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


15th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


16th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


17th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


18th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


19th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


20th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities



For entries with spellcasting, use the following table for Spells per day and Spells Known. (Spells Known only if necessary, i.e. Sorcerer or Bard, but not Wizard or Warmage)Spells per Day/Spells Known
Spells per Day/Spells Known


Level
0lvl
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
5th
6th
7th
8th
9th


1st
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


2nd
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


3rd
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


4th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


5th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


6th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


7th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


8th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


9th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


10th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


11th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


12th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


13th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


14th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


15th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


16th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


17th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


18th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


19th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


20th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


Code immediately below (spoiler)Spells per Day/Spells Known
Spells per Day/Spells Known


Level
0lvl
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
5th
6th
7th
8th
9th


1st
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


2nd
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


3rd
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


4th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


5th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


6th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


7th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


8th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


9th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


10th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


11th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


12th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


13th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


14th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


15th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


16th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


17th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


18th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


19th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


20th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-



For other systems (Psionics, ToB, Incarnum, etc.) keep track of PP/maneuvers/essentia separately, preferably in a nice neat list.
Speculation: Please don't post or speculate on possible builds until the "reveal," in order to avoid spoiling the surprise if a particular competitor is producing a build along those lines.

Leadership is banned; we're producing a meal, not a seven-course banquet for a hundred diners. If your entry includes a prestige class or ACF that grants Leadership or a Leadership-like ability as a bonus feat, the feat should be ignored and is not eligible to be traded away for another feat or ACF through any means.

So! Who wants to sign up as a contestant, and who wants to sign up as a judge? Looking for as many contestants and judges as feel like playing!

We will award 1st through 3rd places, as well as a shout-out for honourable mention. The honourable mention prize is given to the most daring or unexpected build. Judges, contestants and guests alike are invited to vote for honourable mention via PM. If there are no votes, Honourable Mention will go to the chairwoman's favourite build.

The Builds

Past Competitions

Iron Chef I: Entropomancer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=142470)
Iron Chef II: Psibond Agent (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=146583)
Iron Chef III: Cancer Mage (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148584)
Iron Chef IV: Stonelord (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=150595)
Iron Chef V: War Chanter (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=152543)
Iron Chef VI: Master of Masks (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=156876)
Iron Chef VII: Green Star Adept (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=158633)
Iron Chef VIII: Pyrokineticist (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=160266)
Iron Chef IX: Animal Lord (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=162702)
Iron Chef X: Mythic Exemplar (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=164381)
Iron Chef XI: Blade Bravo (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=166539)
Iron Chef XII: War Mind (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9426386)
Iron Chef XIII: Vigilante (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=172233)
Iron Chef XIV: Seeker of the Song (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=174434)
Iron Chef XV: Drunken Master (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=176049)
Iron Chef XVI: Assassin (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=178202)
Iron Chef XVII: Ardent Dilettante (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=182492)
Iron Chef XVIII: Unseelie Dark Hunter (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=186097)
Iron Chef XIX: Dread Pirate (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=190607)
Iron Chef XX: Incandescent Champion (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10976416)
Iron Chef XXI: Ghostwalker (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=198921)
Iron Chef XXII: Dervish (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=206576)
Iron Chef XXIII: Divine Crusader (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=210071)
Iron Chef XXIV: Tactical Soldier (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=214198)
Iron Chef XXV: Scion of Tem-Et-Nu (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=217441)
Iron Chef XXVI: Shadowdancer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=220956)
Iron Chef XXVII: Mindbender (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=224008)
Iron Chef XXVIII: Cryokineticist (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=227304)
Iron Chef XXIX: Consecrated Harrier (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=229688)
Iron Chef XXX: Initiate of Pistis Sophia (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=233346)
Iron Chef XXXI: Shadow Sentinel (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=236908)
Iron Chef XXXII: Temple Raider of Olidammara (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=239786)
Iron Chef XXXIII: Drow Judicator (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=243052)
Iron Chef XXXIV: Dragon Disciple (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=246072)
Iron Chef XXXV: Death Delver (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=249542)
Iron Chef XXXVI: Acolyte of the Skin (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=252923)
Iron Chef XXXVII: Justiciar (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13865473)
Iron Chef XXXVIII: Hand of the Winged Master (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=255215)
Iron Chef XXXIX: Renegade Mastermaker (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=260333)
Iron Chef XL: Nightsong Infiltrator (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=263173)
Iron Chef XLI: Geomancer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=266709)
Iron Chef XLII: Shadowblade (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=270196)
Iron Chef XLIII: Bladesinger (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=274122)
Iron Chef XLIV: Urban Soul (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=279116)
Iron Chef XLV: Talon of Tiamat (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=15216595)
Iron Chef XLVI: Cipher Adept (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=287314)
Iron Chef XLVII: Cold Iron Warrior (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=291294)
Iron Chef XLVIII: Shadow Sun Ninja (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=297327)
Iron Chef XLIX: Thrall to Orcus (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=302487)
Iron Chef L: Corrupt Avenger (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=307823)
Iron Chef LI: Black Flame Zealot (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=312773)
Iron Chef LII: Anointed Knight (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=317934)
Iron Chef LIII: Zerth Cenobite (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=325164)
Iron Chef LIV: Osteomancer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=330890)
Iron Chef LV: Mountebank (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?336373-Iron-Chef-Optimization-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LV)
Iron Chef LVI: Dwarven Defender (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?342807-Iron-Chef-Optimization-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LVI)
Iron Chef LVII: Darkrunner (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?349040-Iron-Chef-Optimization-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LVII)
Iron Chef LVIII: Spellsword (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?357412-Iron-Chef-Optimization-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LVIII)
Iron Chef LIX: Fleet Runner of Ehlonna (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?364667-Iron-Chef-Optimization-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LIX)
Iron Chef LX: Lasher (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?371835-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LX)
Iron Chef LX(II): Acolyte of the Ego (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?372145-Iron-Chef-Optimization-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LX)
Iron Chef LXII: Dungeon Lord (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?376810-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXII)
Iron Cheff LXIII: Witchborn Binder (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?382632-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXIII)
Iron Chef LXIV: Slime Lord (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?387166-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXIV)
Iron Chef LXV: Thunder Guide (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?394981-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXV)
Iron Chef LXVI: Dwarven Chanter (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?400810-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXVI)
Irogn Chef LXVII: Gnome Giant Slayer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?406613-Irogn-Chef-Optimisatiogn-Challegnge-ign-the-Playgrougnd-LXVII)
Iron Chef LXIX: Fang of Lolth (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?412530-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXVIII)
Iron Chef LXIX: Shiba Protector (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?420165-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXIX)
Iron Chef LXX: Order of the Bow Initiate (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?425634-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXX)
Iron Chef LXXI: Silver Key (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?431484-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXXI)
Iron Chef LXXII: Spellfire Channeler (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?439020-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXXII)
Iron Chef LXXIII: Flux Adept (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?448596-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXXIII)
Iron Chef LXXIV: Crinti Shadow Marauder (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?458711-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXXIV)
Iron Chef LXXV: Thief of Life (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?472831-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXXV)
Iron Chef LXXVI: Legacy Champion (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?477153-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXXVI)
Iron Chef LXXVII: Great Rift Skyguard (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?482249-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXXVII)
Iron Chef LXVIII: Risen Martyr (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?487560-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXXVIII)
Iron Chef LXXIX: Black Blood Hunter (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?492923-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXXIX)
Iron Chef LXXX: Master of Many Forms (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?498359-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXXX)
Iron Chef LXXXI: Serene Guardian (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?502666-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXXXI)
Iron Chef LXXXII: Elocator (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?505762-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXXXII)
Iron Chef LXXXIII: Winterhaunt of Iboorighu (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?510581-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXXXIII)
Iron Chef LXXXIV: Waverider (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?514631-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXXXIV)
Iron Chef LXXXV: Astral Dancer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?519296-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXXXV)

[Heliomance]

FAQ:
Q: What's this even about?
A: I'm glad you asked, actually... (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15415117&postcount=1)

Q: Is Dragon Compendium Allowed?
A: Yes (as well as its Errata), but individual issues of Dragon Magazine are not.

Q: What about 3.0 materials?
A: 3.0 materials, whether online or in printed form, are allowed unless they've been officially updated to a 3.5 edition.

Q: Are Dragonlance, Ravenloft, Planescape, Dark Sun, or Kingdoms of Kalamar allowable sources?
A: The Dragonlance Campaign Setting is allowed, but the subsequent books for Dragonlance are considered 3rd party, and are therefore not eligible, despite the "WotC approved" status of those books. The same holds for Oriental Adventures (1st party) and the subsequent Rokugan books (3rd party). Materials from Ravenloft, Planescape, Dark Sun, and Kingdoms of Kalamar are considered 3rd party for purposes of this contest, and are therefore not allowed.

Q: What about online sources in general?
A: If the online source is a) published by WotC, and b) not replaced by an updated version at a later time, it is eligible. Use it, link it.

Q: Where's the line drawn with "acceptable/unacceptable" for Unearthed Arcana? This will likely vary a bit from Chairman to Chairman. Item Familiars and Gestalt have always been verboten, since before IC migrated to GitP; don't expect that to change. Flaws have similarly always been noted as warranting a deduction; while I am Chairman, I'm extending that to Traits, though they warrant 1/2 the penalty in Elegance that a Flaw would because they're roughly 1/2 as useful. Alternate spell systems, alternate skill systems and alternate crafting rules all create an uneven playing field, and as such, will be disallowed for as long as I am Chairman. In a similar vein, LA buyoff and fractional BAB are also disallowed. Bloodlines and the Retraining options presented in the PHB2 are ripe for abuse, and will be strongly discouraged as long as I am Chairman. Note that judges are allowed to look askance at any use of Unearthed Arcana not specifically mentioned above, at their discretion, and otherwise penalize Elegance according to their preference.

Q: What, exactly, does the ban on Leadership mean?
A: As folks have started to try to work around the edges of this one, I'm forced to spell it out more plainly. No Leadership, Draconic Cohort, or Feats that grant a similar ability are allowed EXCEPT Wild Cohort while Heliomance is chairman. Any PrC you choose with Leadership or a Leadership-analog has that ability entirely ignored for this contest, as it may neither be used nor traded away via any means whatsoever.

Q: What's the minimum score in a category?
A: Assuming an entry is legal, the minimum score in any category is 1. If a judge is convinced that an entry is mechanically illegal by the RAW, the judge may give the build a score of 0 in Elegance, and proceed to judge the entry as if the offending material was not included. Failing to meet a special requirement for a prestige class does not merit a 0, but may qualify for a penalty, at the judge's discretion. Because this contest focuses on Player Characters, an entry that is not technically allowed for a PC, but is viable as an NPC, counts as a legal entry, but may receive a minimum score at the judges' discretion.

Q: Creatures and templates with no listed LA are playable, right?
A: No. No listed LA is equivalent to LA: -. It is not suitable for PCs. If you use it, expect judges to look extremely disfavourably on it.

Q: So what's the deal with equipment, anyway?
A: There is no official policy on how much equipment you should list. Historically, judges have frowned upon "item dependent" builds, but unfortunately the definition of that has been applied to mean anything from builds that don't function if you remove one very specific item, to builds that so much as mention a particular weapon. Builds that don't list gear should be assumed to buy useful generics - items to boost their primary stats, cloaks of resistance, appropriate magical weapons and armour, and so forth. If a build would find particular items useful, they should be listed, but experience suggests that the more generic you keep them, the more favourably judges are likely to look upon them, as a build being shut down because the Thundering Bagpipes of Urist McTrumpetbritches were unavailable is considered a weakness. Similarly, requiring items in order to be able to qualify for things tends to be frowned upon.

Q: Do you have any other rules and guidelines on how to judge?
A: We do, actually, designed to try and avoid unpleasantness we've encountered in past contests. The things we've come up with to avoid repeating this are given below.

One Mistake, One Penalty

Judges are only allowed to penalise once for a given mistake. If someone messes up their skills and doesn't qualify for a PrC, ding them as hard as you like. Once. In one category. You don't then get to declare that because they didn't qualify for that PrC, they don't get those levels, and thus don't qualify for anything else. If Ranger is a common ingredient, ding them for Originality. Once. Don't also take off points for Two-Weapon-Fighting being a common ingredient.

Non-exhaustive list of examples:

Skills

Allowed:

Giving a penalty for miscalculating the number of skill points gained
Giving a penalty for not having enough ranks to meet a prerequisite
Increasing the harshness of a skill miscalculation penalty if it affects critical skills including prereqs


Not allowed:

Giving separate penalties for miscalculating skill points and for non-qualification where the non-qualification is solely caused by the miscalculation



Prereqs

Allowed:

Giving a penalty for not meeting prereqs
Scaling the penalty depending on how important the item that the build failed to qualify for is
Giving minimum score in UotSI for not qualifying for the SI
(Trial, may be disallowed later)Not giving credit for (note: not the same as penalising for) tactics using feats or classes other than the SI that were not qualified for (but see below)


Not Allowed:

"Cascading" failures to qualify - declaring that because a build doesn't qualify for a feat, for example, it also doesn't qualify for anything using that feat as a prereq
Treating a build as having fewer levels than it does because of FtQ for classes



Other general things that are no longer allowed:

Penalising because someone has chosen to build a tribute to an existing creative work
Deciding that a backstory has not met a fluff prerequisite well enough, or because its method of meeting it is "unrealistic". You may penalise if a fluff prereq is not addressed at all, but not for how well it is addressed.


Note that these are protections, not licenses. Deliberately taking a feat that you know you don't qualify for hoping to just suck up the judging penalty for a feat that you couldn't normally take is not okay, and may lead to your build being disqualified.

Q: Do you have any contest house rules or clarifications to ambiguous rules?
A: Some that have come up in previous contests and needed answers to:

All creatures are proficient with any natural weapons they may have or acquire.
Bonus feats that are granted even if you do not meet the prerequisites do not require you to meet the prerequisites in order to use.
Able Learner's benefit applies to the level you take it.

[PrismCat21]

I had forgotten completely, this prestige class.
Should be a fun contest. :)

[Zaq]

Why did I think we'd done this one already? Either way, I'll definitely give it some thought. I can't be sure if I'll have the time I want, but it's worth looking at.

[Darrin]

Why did I think we'd done this one already? Either way, I'll definitely give it some thought. I can't be sure if I'll have the time I want, but it's worth looking at.

Same book as Serene Guardian. I remember looking at Twisted Lord and thinking, "Now that could be an interesting ingredient!" Solar Channeler... *shudder*. Not so much.

[WhamBamSam]

It'll take a bit of tinkering, but I have some thoughts for this one.

[The Viscount]

Oh boy I love this class. It's got some legitimate reasons to take it and everything!

[Zaq]

Finally got home and got a chance to look at the class properly.

There is a lot of weird potential here. A few hidden traps, too. Damn shame that the class takes so long to get anything unique (givvertake Peripheral Invisibility, but I'm currently ranking that less high on the potential optimization meter than the other unique features), but at least it's not crazy difficult to enter.

I've got no shortage of stuff going on right now (I think I can describe my schedule as being "good busy"), but I'm hoping I can come up with something, because there seems to be some neat stuff to play with here.

Rules query: Does the target of Twist Target have to spend actions making the forced attack?

[Sian]

What is the DC on Peripheral Invisibility? can it be used on only some people and not others? Do you know ahead of time (before using your swift action) if you can use it?

[Amphetryon]

Nifty. I used this one as a complimentary class in one round. I will see if I can make it a focal point for a build.

[Venger]

Why did I think we'd done this one already? Either way, I'll definitely give it some thought. I can't be sure if I'll have the time I want, but it's worth looking at.
You are probably thinking of amphetryons entry in blade bravo, which I believe featured twisted Lord. I think the viscount has used it in at least one iron chef in the past as well.

I am definitely down to cook for this one. I love this prestige class

[The Viscount]

You are probably thinking of amphetryons entry in blade bravo, which I believe featured twisted Lord. I think the viscount has used it in at least one iron chef in the past as well.

I am definitely down to cook for this one. I love this prestige class

I did in fact use it back in Mountebank. As said, it's a great supplement, but focusing entirely on it will take some work. Those skills have me salivating.

[Inevitability]

Could anyone who has the book post the affiliation table?

[DeTess]

I don't have access to the book, but a quick web does show a result from a website called d&d tolls as one of the first results (can't post link as I'm quite new to the forums) Is this the correct class? Also, what is the level of experience expected of participants? I've done 1 or 2 optimizations before, but never to insane levels. Third question: does Peripheral Invisibility break on performing an attack? Based on the wording I don't think so (it just says it lasts till the end of the round, with no other conditions, but I wanted to check).

[Inevitability]

I don't have access to the book, but a quick web does show a result from a website called d&d tolls as one of the first results (can't post link as I'm quite new to the forums) Is this the correct class? Also, what is the level of experience expected of participants? I've done 1 or 2 optimizations before, but never to insane levels. Third question: does Peripheral Invisibility break on performing an attack? Based on the wording I don't think so (it just says it lasts till the end of the round, with no other conditions, but I wanted to check).

'D&D Tolls', as you call it, does show the right class, but the site itself is of debatable legality. Don't mention it here or link to it and things should be fine, though.

[DeTess]

'D&D Tolls', as you call it, does show the right class, but the site itself is of debatable legality. Don't mention it here or link to it and things should be fine, though.

Oops, I need to learn to check my grammar more often before hitting 'submit'.
Thanks for the warning. Is there a list somewhere of sites that can and can't be referenced, or is it a simple case of everything that doesn't explicitly mention SRD should not be mentioned?

[Thurbane]

Interesting ingredient.

My IRL stuff is all kinds of messy right now, so not sure if I'll get an entry in. Still, is is an ingredient that grabs me somewhat.

On the plus side, I got a perfectly legal PDF copy of SGoS when it was free for a couple of days (I think it was at DriveThurRPG, promotion for game day or somesuch).


What is the DC on Peripheral Invisibility? can it be used on only some people and not others? Do you know ahead of time (before using your swift action) if you can use it?

A.) I'm assuming the standard check to spot an invisible creature:


A Spot check result higher than 20 generally lets you become aware of an invisible creature near you, though you can’t actually see it.

Rules of the Game (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040921a) expands on this and gives a DC of 40 to locate the creature, and different DCs for both checks depending on a couple of variables.

B.) Nothing in the description indicates you can selectively chose targets for the ability.

C. ) Not clearly defined, but my gut says...no? I'd assume you'd use up your swift action, and the ability would fail to go off. I don't have RAW behind that, though.

[Venger]

Could anyone who has the book post the affiliation table?

I have a copy and would be more than happy to share it with the thread, but I want to check if that's allowed first.

Chair, is that kosher?

Oops, I need to learn to check my grammar more often before hitting 'submit'.
Thanks for the warning. Is there a list somewhere of sites that can and can't be referenced, or is it a simple case of everything that doesn't explicitly mention SRD should not be mentioned?

Yes, that's a good rule generally speaking. best of luck to you.

[Inevitability]

I have a copy and would be more than happy to share it with the thread, but I want to check if that's allowed first.

Chair, is that kosher?

Not the chair, but in the Serene Guardian round the exact same thing (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=21273541&postcount=14) was done and nobody batted an eye. We haven't changed chairs since then either.

[Heliomance]

I have a copy and would be more than happy to share it with the thread, but I want to check if that's allowed first.

Chair, is that kosher?

I don't have a problem with it; don't know if the mods might, though.

[Hackulator]

So just to confirm, this class has no alignment restriction even though it's clearly evil, correct?

[Darrin]

Not the chair, but in the Serene Guardian round the exact same thing (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=21273541&postcount=14) was done and nobody batted an eye. We haven't changed chairs since then either.

Well, since I did it the first time... here's an excerpt of the modifiers (fair use):

Character level bonus, +1/2 PC's level
Character is a wizard, sorcerer, or rogue, +1
Circumspect when inquiring about Slaughtergarde, +1
Give an Ebon cabalist some twistroot, +1 (only works once)
Working for the Luminous Order, -2
Agree to report on Luminous Order activities, +2
Destroy the gate in the Slaughtergarde armory, -6
Secure the armory gate for the Ebon Cabal, +4


So just to confirm, this class has no alignment restriction even though it's clearly evil, correct?

That is correct. However, to undergo the twistroot ceremony, you have to have "shown the ability to manipulate people by guile and coercion". If a good-aligned character is actively engaged in activities that advance the agenda of evil outsiders (or even just willing to look the other way), then the judges may ding you up in the Elegance category.

[Hackulator]

That is correct. However, to undergo the twistroot ceremony, you have to have "shown the ability to manipulate people by guile and coercion". If a good-aligned character is actively engaged in activities that advance the agenda of evil outsiders (or even just willing to look the other way), then the judges may ding you up in the Elegance category.

Yeah I will have a fluff explanation that hopefully will mitigate things at least a little in that area.

Also, could you please explain the point buy thing? I assumed at first you meant ability score point buy, but if that's the case how could you let people use higher or lower numbers in an optimization contest? Sorry if these are well known things on the board, I didn't see where there was a more in-depth explanation.

[Zaq]

The book explicitly says that "the Ebon Cabal isn't an evil organization," but it then goes on to make pretty clear that they aren't really the good guys, at least not with D&D's hard-coded semi-absolute morality.

[Venger]

I mean, it's a club that bonds over drinking root beer. Given the other sorts of clubs you can join in D&D, you could do an awful lot worse.

Here's the affiliation chart for those in need:


https://s9.postimg.org/weeqndplr/ebon_cabal.png

Good luck to you all.

[Inevitability]

https://s9.postimg.org/weeqndplr/ebon_cabal.png

Thanks for the chart!

I'd like to add that the cloak is a minor item that grants 5 temporary HP a day and a +1 bonus on saves against spells, while the rod is an item that comes in four variants, with each variant giving you a specific +1 weapon/buckler to transform it into as well as two 1/day usable spells (Scorching Ray and Burning Hands, Spider Climb and Expeditious Retreat, Invisibility and Obscuring Mist or Scare and Ray of Enfeeblement).

[Zaq]

Thanks for the chart!

I'd like to add that the cloak is a minor item that grants 5 temporary HP a day and a +1 bonus on saves against spells, while the rod is an item that comes in four variants, with each variant giving you a specific +1 weapon/buckler to transform it into as well as two 1/day usable spells (Scorching Ray and Burning Hands, Spider Climb and Expeditious Retreat, Invisibility and Obscuring Mist or Scare and Ray of Enfeeblement).

Question about that rod: anyone have an idea as to how to handle the buckler version in a non-stupid manner? The whole point of a buckler is that it doesn't take up a hand, but this is a buckler sticking out of the end of a rod (and the rod can't just fold into the buckler and stop being a rod, because the other buttons have to remain accessible). Kind of hard to use it as a buckler that way, no?

I mean, the rules don't technically say that you CAN'T treat it as a normal buckler that's strapped to your arm, but that's still pretty stupid. I doubt that the buckler/rod is going to make or break anyone's build (though now I kind of hope that someone tries to prove me wrong there), but still, it's definitely a moment of the devs not thinking things through.

[Hackulator]

Question about that rod: anyone have an idea as to how to handle the buckler version in a non-stupid manner? The whole point of a buckler is that it doesn't take up a hand, but this is a buckler sticking out of the end of a rod (and the rod can't just fold into the buckler and stop being a rod, because the other buttons have to remain accessible). Kind of hard to use it as a buckler that way, no?

I mean, the rules don't technically say that you CAN'T treat it as a normal buckler that's strapped to your arm, but that's still pretty stupid. I doubt that the buckler/rod is going to make or break anyone's build (though now I kind of hope that someone tries to prove me wrong there), but still, it's definitely a moment of the devs not thinking things through.

There's no reason it can't transform into a buckler and still maintain the buttons somewhere.

[Afgncaap5]

Oooh... this one looks interesting. I don't know if I'll have time to participate, but I'll watch the entrants with great interest.

[The Viscount]

Yeah I will have a fluff explanation that hopefully will mitigate things at least a little in that area.

Also, could you please explain the point buy thing? I assumed at first you meant ability score point buy, but if that's the case how could you let people use higher or lower numbers in an optimization contest? Sorry if these are well known things on the board, I didn't see where there was a more in-depth explanation.
Point buy in this case does indeed refer to ability score point buy, with everyone using 32 points. The exact rules are found on page 169 of the DMG, or there are some web calculators for it. Does that answer your question?


Question about that rod: anyone have an idea as to how to handle the buckler version in a non-stupid manner? The whole point of a buckler is that it doesn't take up a hand, but this is a buckler sticking out of the end of a rod (and the rod can't just fold into the buckler and stop being a rod, because the other buttons have to remain accessible). Kind of hard to use it as a buckler that way, no?

I mean, the rules don't technically say that you CAN'T treat it as a normal buckler that's strapped to your arm, but that's still pretty stupid. I doubt that the buckler/rod is going to make or break anyone's build (though now I kind of hope that someone tries to prove me wrong there), but still, it's definitely a moment of the devs not thinking things through.
A difficult question to answer since I've never seen art demonstrating how they think a buckler is to be used (since D&D bucklers aren't regular bucklers). I suppose you could have the handle of it simply run across your forearm, and then have the buttons close to your hand so you can reach down, if a little awkwardly. Alternatively, maybe the handle gains a sudden bend for the buttons like a tonfa?

[Venger]

I reread the book. Is there an actual mechanical way of boosting your affiliation score like with the paragnostic assembly, or do we all just say 'we did a lot of stuff for other ebon cabalists, and then we entered twisted lord" ?

[DeTess]

I reread the book. Is there an actual mechanical way of boosting your affiliation score like with the paragnostic assembly, or do we all just say 'we did a lot of stuff for other ebon cabalists, and then we entered twisted lord" ?

Based on the table posted earlier, the maximum mechanical affiliation score you can get if you're taking 10 levels in twisted lord is 6 (1/2* PC level +1 for being a rogue/sorcerer/wizard) This is less if you enter at a level lower than 10, as I expect some people will likely do, so I think all contestants will likely have to say something along the lines of 'we did some stuff for the ebon cabal'.
You might lose some points if you used some trick to enter twisted lord really early, which would mean you'd have had to do a lot of favors to the ebon cabal at low level (I'm not sure how hard securing that gate is, but I wouldn't be surprised to learn it would be extremely challenging for a level 4 character). I'm no judge, of course, so this is just speculation.

[Venger]

Third question: does Peripheral Invisibility break on performing an attack? Based on the wording I don't think so (it just says it lasts till the end of the round, with no other conditions, but I wanted to check).
no. you just gain the "invisible" status. it doesn't say "as per the spell 'invisibility,' " so you don't act as though it does.


Based on the table posted earlier, the maximum mechanical affiliation score you can get if you're taking 10 levels in twisted lord is 6 (1/2* PC level +1 for being a rogue/sorcerer/wizard) This is less if you enter at a level lower than 10, as I expect some people will likely do, so I think all contestants will likely have to say something along the lines of 'we did some stuff for the ebon cabal'.
You might lose some points if you used some trick to enter twisted lord really early, which would mean you'd have had to do a lot of favors to the ebon cabal at low level (I'm not sure how hard securing that gate is, but I wouldn't be surprised to learn it would be extremely challenging for a level 4 character). I'm no judge, of course, so this is just speculation.


I missed darrin's post earlier. thanks for pointing it out. what section is that from? I don't have that bit in my copy.

[Darrin]

I missed darrin's post earlier. thanks for pointing it out. what section is that from? I don't have that bit in my copy.

It's on page 19 of the Campaign Guide.

[danielxcutter]

How in the nine hells did I miss this?

Whatever, subscribing.

[Thurbane]

Since things starting to look up on the horrible situation I've been going through in my work life, and I'm currently on a break from DMing, I really want to get an entry in for this one.

Hope to have the bulk of it completely before the end of the weekend!

[bean illus]

How in the nine hells did I miss this?

Whatever, subscribing.

I would love to enter a recipe some day, but i would have to get over my embarrassment. So many master optimizers here.

[daremetoidareyo]

I would love to enter a recipe some day, but i would have to get over my embarrassment. So many master optimizers here.

Do it. You're better than you think

[Deadline]

Do it. You're better than you think

This. Keep in mind we're all working with the same (generally awful) ingredient, and that half the battle is just putting a build out there. No matter where they place on the final standings, everyone who cooks is a master chef in my opinion.

[bean illus]

This. Keep in mind we're all working with the same (generally awful) ingredient, and that half the battle is just putting a build out there. No matter where they place on the final standings, everyone who cooks is a master chef in my opinion
Maybe if i got two weeks advance notice, lol.


Do it. You're better than you think
You're just being nice. I dare you to find one good build or gimmick from me. lol.

I have an idea or two for this round, but it would take me weeks to research it (I've never been able to get damage out of a build).

[Deadline]

You're just being nice. I dare you to find one good build or gimmick from me. lol.

Well, we can't find any if you don't put anything out there.

Don't like that paraphrased platitude? Here's another one: You can't succeed if you don't try.

Seriously, I'm no august and learned 3.5 scholar. I'm certainly not that good as far as optimization goes. But I've managed to sneak a few medals here and there over the years. And most of that was sheer determination. Heck, one of my favorite builds (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=16084344&postcount=270) (that I have built) placed silver (and believe me, it had no business doing so) just based on sheer entertainment value. As far as optimization went, it wasn't really anything special.

So give it a shot!

[DeTess]

You're just being nice. I dare you to find one good build or gimmick from me.

I've just submitted my build, and I wouldn't call myself an expert optimizer by any stretch, so worst case scenario, you can join me for the participation medal :P.

[Zaq]

Iron Chef is best learned by doing, and honestly, no one is going to make a fuss about an uninspiring build. I've submitted more than a few builds that ranked in the bottom half, but no one remembers them unless I remind them (or unless I took Honorable Mention, which has been my goal more than once). But you never know—you might come up with something amazing. We've had rookie medalists before. It's not even that uncommon, if for no other reason than that the fresh perspective might help you avoid some ruts that the regulars don't realize they're in.

As far as what I'm doing this round, this ingredient is definitely singing to me, but I don't have any ideas that seem non-obvious. That, and I'm way more busy than I expected to be, though I might have about a week off before I need to start studying for my next exam (if anyone is familiar with the CPCU insurance designation, that's what I'm working on. If you're not familiar with it, don't bother looking it up, because you'll find it boring unless you're in the insurance biz). No promises, but I'm hopeful that I'll stumble across an idea when I least expect it.

[Thurbane]

I've got the basics done.

Was there the normal amount of cooking time for this one? Feels quite short.

[Venger]

I've got the basics done.

Was there the normal amount of cooking time for this one? Feels quite short.

yeah, two weeks is standard. probably since may has 30 days?

[Zaq]

yeah, two weeks is standard. probably since may has 30 days?

Um, that's not how May works.

[Amphetryon]

Um, that's not how May works.

I double-checked; May has 30 days. It even has an additional day
:smallbiggrin:

In other news, Vizzini is actively pointing and laughing at my build idea.

ETA: The copy of Shattered Gates of Slaughtergarde I'm looking at does not explicitly include the "even if you do not meet the prerequisites" verbiage for the Improved Feint Bonus Feat. Do we need the prerequisite?

[DeTess]

ETA: The copy of Shattered Gates of Slaughtergarde I'm looking at does not explicitly include the "even if you do not meet the prerequisites" verbiage for the Improved Feint Bonus Feat. Do we need the prerequisite?

Oh, good point. I assume it's allowed to sent in an updated version of a build if something like this comes up?

[Thurbane]

Chuggin away - not sure how much more I will get done before the end of Sunday.

Wish I had have read the actual date earlier instead of assuming I had longer. :smallfrown: I fear I won't have anything but the bare skeleton done by the time of reveal. I'll see how I'm going, and may plead an extension when the deadline gets closer.

[bean illus]

Well, we can't find any if you don't put anything out there.

Don't like that paraphrased platitude? Here's another one: You can't succeed if you don't try.

Seriously, I'm no august and learned 3.5 scholar. I'm certainly not that good as far as optimization goes. But I've managed to sneak a few medals here and there over the years. And most of that was sheer determination. Heck, one of my favorite builds (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=16084344&postcount=270) (that I have built) placed silver (and believe me, it had no business doing so) just based on sheer entertainment value. As far as optimization went, it wasn't really anything special.

So give it a shot!


I've just submitted my build, and I wouldn't call myself an expert optimizer by any stretch, so worst case scenario, you can join me for the participation medal :P.

I will probably do so someday, when i get the secret ingredient early enough and have less work that week.

[Venger]

Chuggin away - not sure how much more I will get done before the end of Sunday.

Wish I had have read the actual date earlier instead of assuming I had longer. :smallfrown: I fear I won't have anything but the bare skeleton done by the time of reveal. I'll see how I'm going, and may plead an extension when the deadline gets closer.

I'm running uncharacteristically behind as well. Would an extension of a day or two please the chair?

[Thurbane]

I'm running uncharacteristically behind as well. Would an extension of a day or two please the chair?

I'd like at least until the weekend, but I understand that may not be reasonable. :smalleek:

[The Viscount]

I certainly wouldn't mind an extension.

[Macabaret]

I'd like at least until the weekend, but I understand that may not be reasonable. :smalleek:

I had an idea. And then screwed it all up so that the combo didn't actually work.
But now I think I may have found a good fix.

So, I'd also be fully in favor of an extension through the weekend.

[The Blade Wolf]

I hope people do not mind me butting in like this, but I think it’s important for me to state just how much I respect this thread, the people who run it, and the people who participate in it, especially the veterans. Whilst the Weekly Optimization Showcase from back in the day has helped me with strong and partially somewhat builds (I love Edge of Light as well as Slash and Burn in particular). I love the sheer creativity on display during these threads and how people are turning even some of the most convoluted of Prestige Classes into a build that functions amazingly.

From the guy who continuously floats in a 10ft Astral Bubble (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=21947791&postcount=123) to a monk who charges by falling, three times a turn (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=21320029&postcount=97). From a Weasel who attaches as a Bear (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=21014320&postcount=120) to a Lance thrower who teleports next to his foes (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=20650047&postcount=80). The creativity and flavour of these characters are amazing, and I cannot wait to see where else the Iron Chef challenge may take us. Even if I do not have the game knowledge needed to become to join the ranks of an Iron Chef, or a judge to help show my appreciation, I hope people do not mind if I stick around to watch

[danielxcutter]

I hope people do not mind me butting in like this, but I think it’s important for me to state just how much I respect this thread, the people who run it, and the people who participate in it, especially the veterans. Whilst the Weekly Optimization Showcase from back in the day has helped me with strong and partially somewhat builds (I love Edge of Light as well as Slash and Burn in particular). I love the sheer creativity on display during these threads and how people are turning even some of the most convoluted of Prestige Classes into a build that functions amazingly.

From the guy who continuously floats in a 10ft Astral Bubble (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=21947791&postcount=123) to a monk who charges by falling, three times a turn (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=21320029&postcount=97). From a Weasel who attaches as a Bear (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=21014320&postcount=120) to a Lance thrower who teleports next to his foes (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=20650047&postcount=80). The creativity and flavour of these characters are amazing, and I cannot wait to see where else the Iron Chef challenge may take us. Even if I do not have the game knowledge needed to become to join the ranks of an Iron Chef, or a judge to help show my appreciation, I hope people do not mind if I stick around to watch

I don't think anyone's going to mind you butting in, friend.

[The Blade Wolf]

Also, very glad that you started linking the builds as well. I can't believe you didn't do so for the first 70+ threads through, going to make checking up on the winning builds that much harder...

[danielxcutter]

Also, very glad that you started linking the builds as well. I can't believe you didn't do so for the first 70+ threads through, going to make checking up on the winning builds that much harder...

...let me guess, new to here? You've missed a lot.

By the way, welcome!

[The Blade Wolf]

...let me guess, new to here? You've missed a lot.

By the way, welcome!

... Did the post not make that clear?

[danielxcutter]

... Did the post not make that clear?

Eh, I don't think I have ranks in Sense Motive, if you catch my drift. :smallwink:

[ArendK]

Well, we can't find any if you don't put anything out there.

Don't like that paraphrased platitude? Here's another one: You can't succeed if you don't try.

Seriously, I'm no august and learned 3.5 scholar. I'm certainly not that good as far as optimization goes. But I've managed to sneak a few medals here and there over the years. And most of that was sheer determination. Heck, one of my favorite builds (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=16084344&postcount=270) (that I have built) placed silver (and believe me, it had no business doing so) just based on sheer entertainment value. As far as optimization went, it wasn't really anything special.

So give it a shot!

I just read through that build. I about fell over laughing at work at the genius of it. Brilliant.

[Deadline]

I just read through that build. I about fell over laughing at work at the genius of it. Brilliant.

The disputes were a lot of fun to write as well. I did them all as the Guardian of Metal (Ozzy Osbourne). But take a look at the difference between that build and the Gold medalist for that round. You can clearly see the optimization difference. Babalon the Queen of Bones truly deserved to take home the gold.

[The Blade Wolf]

What's a TO build? I'm looking through the old threads and the Honourable Mention was given to them for being a TO build, but I have no idea what they mean by that.

Context can be found here:


Congratulations to our placers! The two entries that had votes for Honourable Mention both placed, so I'm going to give Honourable Mention to Katjusha for being ballsy enough to submit a TO build!

[Venger]

What's a TO build? I'm looking through the old threads and the Honourable Mention was given to them for being a TO build, but I have no idea what they mean by that.

Context can be found here:

TO means theoretical optimization: the kind of character who is not expected to be used in actual play, or PO which is practical optimization, something you might expect to play.

[The Blade Wolf]

TO means theoretical optimization: the kind of character who is not expected to be used in actual play, or PO which is practical optimization, something you might expect to play.

Ah, I see, like saying that attaching the Teleportation Weapon Special Ability to a Soulbow counts as teleporting yourself for the benefits of Shadow Pouce due to the Soulbow been crafting out of your own Psionic energy. It is entirely possible for such a build to theoretically be argued to works, but chances are slim that a DM would actually allow such a build to ever be used.

Thank you for explaining.

[Venger]

Ah, I see, like saying that attaching the Teleportation Weapon Special Ability to a Soulbow counts as teleporting yourself for the benefits of Shadow Pouce due to the Soulbow been crafting out of your own Psionic energy. It is entirely possible for such a build to theoretically be argued to works, but chances are slim that a DM would actually allow such a build to ever be used.

Thank you for explaining.

Not exactly.

TO doesn't mean it relies on houserules to work, it means it's out of keeping with what you'd be able to do in a real game, mostly in terms of power level. A clear example is Frater Omnia (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=12365869&postcount=233) from Mindbender who is a juiced up diplomancer. There's nothing dubious about what he's able to do RAW, it's just not the kind of thing you're likely to whip out in actual play since it's hard to create a meaningful challenge for him.

[The Blade Wolf]

Not exactly.

TO doesn't mean it relies on houserules to work, it means it's out of keeping with what you'd be able to do in a real game, mostly in terms of power level. A clear example is Frater Omnia (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=12365869&postcount=233) from Mindbender who is a juiced up diplomancer. There's nothing dubious about what he's able to do RAW, it's just not the kind of thing you're likely to whip out in actual play since it's hard to create a meaningful challenge for him.

That's... exactly what I meant.

RAW there is nothing against the example I stated. Simply that it's unlikely to be a build to see actual play on a table due to its ridiculous level of power. Plus I see most DM's shutting down the idea with a house rule as well.

[bean illus]

As a witness and possible future participant I want to say that any extension should include a bonus point for those that got their build in on time.

[Rizban]

As a witness and possible future participant I want to say that any extension should include a bonus point for those that got their build in on time.

Eh, I disagree. That's the same as penalizing anyone who didn't get it in before the extension, which somewhat negates the purpose of the extension in the first place.

Edit: I'm going to judge this round. I couldn't find anything inspiring to build with this SI but didn't really have time to look at it much either.

[daremetoidareyo]

As a witness and possible future participant I want to say that any extension should include a bonus point for those that got their build in on time.

I don't like this idea because it's a real life tax

[Vaz]

As a witness and possible future participant I want to say that any extension should include a bonus point for those that got their build in on time.

Should't you at least compete before weighing in on policy?

But no, seriously. With respect, who are you?

[Thurbane]

I don't like this idea because it's a real life tax

Agreed. It's not something I would ever impose in the Villainous Competition, just as a point of (personal) reference.

[Heliomance]

I've got the basics done.

Was there the normal amount of cooking time for this one? Feels quite short.

It was a bit shorter than other recent ones. There is logic (of sorts) behind the madness:


Generally, I aim to give a 2-week cooking time
The contest used to close on Sundays, because I would be able to guarantee having the free time Sunday mornings to post the builds
My activity pattern shifted, and I found that I wasn't actually getting it done on Sundays anymore
For whatever reason, more often than not I ended up posting the builds on Tuesday
So I changed the official closing date to Tuesday
Naturally, I then started missing that deadline too, because procrastination
Also the judging period takes a thoroughly unpredictable amount of time
So if the new contest wasn't started on a Tuesday, I'd allow two weeks plus the distance to the Tuesday after that
This thread was only a day late, I think, so I decided to make it just shy of the two weeks I aim for, rather than almost three weeks
And that's why this cooking period was shorter, because other recent ones have had extra time tacked on to make up for my procrastination
Of course, the fact that this is now Thursday means you still got your two weeks :smalltongue:


Anyway, builds incoming!

[Heliomance]

As a reminder to chefs new and old, please refrain from putting your username in your post, as it's quite easy for me to miss it while anonymising the entries.



Grim Maven
Race: Whipser Gnome
Whisper gnomes give a serious bonus to various stealth-related skills (+8 on hide, +4 on move silently), as well as dark-vision and a couple of utility spells (1/ day silence, ghost sound, mage hand and message). The only real downside is a -2 on charisma. Small size works nicely with some sword-sage maneuvres as well.
Build Summary: Rogue 7/Swordsage 2/twisted Lord 10/Swordsage +1
Alignment: True/Chaotic Neutral

Ability scores:


Ability
Base
Racial modifier
level up
total


STR
10
-2
-
8


DEX
18
2
3
23


CON
12
2
-
14


INT
10
-
-
10


WIS
12
-
-
12


CHA
12
-2
2
12



Isengrim, ‘Grim’ to anyone but his parents, grew up in the slums of a major city. At a young age he learned to threaten and steal his way to a full belly. A confrontation with a major gang ended with him having to flee town and try to find his way elsewhere.



Level
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Skills
Feats
Class Features


1st
Rogue 1
0
0
2
0
Bluff 4, Intimidate 4, Hide 4, move silently 4, spot 4, jump 4, Open lock 4, gather information 4
two-weapon fighting
Sneak attack +1d6, trapfinding


2nd
rogue 2
1
0
2
0
Bluff 5, Intimidate 5, Hide 5, move silently 5, spot 5, jump 5, Open lock 5, gather information 5
-
Evasion


3rd
rogue 3
2
1
3
1
Bluff 6, Intimidate 6, Hide 6, move silently 6, spot 6, jump 6, Open lock 6, gather information 6
Weapon finesse
sneack attack +2d6, Penetrating strike (ACF)


4th
rogue 4
3
1
4
1
Bluff 7, Intimidate 7, Hide 7, move silently 7, spot 7, jump 7, Open lock 7, gather information 7
-
Uncanny Dodge


5th
rogue 5
3
1
4
1
Bluff 8, Intimidate 8, Hide 8, move silently 8, spot 8, jump 8, Open lock 8, gather information 8
-
sneak attack +3d6


6th
rogue 6
4
2
5
2
Bluff 9, Intimidate 9, Hide 9, move silently 9, spot 9, jump 9, Open lock 9, gather information 9
Dodge
-


7th
Rogue 7
5
2
5
2
Bluff 10, Intimidate 10, Hide 10, move silently 10, spot 10, jump 10, Open lock 10, gather information 10
-
sneak attack +4d6


8th
Swordsage 1
5
2
7
4
Hide 11, intimidate 11, move silently 11, jump 11, climb 2
-
quick to act +1, discipline focus(Weapon focus) (Shadow Hand Discipline), maneuvres, stances


9th
Swordsage 2
6/1
2
8
5
Hide 12, intimidate 12, move silently 12, jump 12, climb 4
Shadow Blade
AC Bonus


10th
Twisted Lord 1
6/1
2
10
5
Hide 13, intimidate 13, move silently 13, bluff 13, open lock 10
-
twisted form


11th
twisted Lord 2
7/2
2
11
5
hide 14, intimidate 14, move silently 14, bluff 14, open lock 14, spot 11
-
sneak attack +5d6


12th
twisted lord 3
8/3
3
11
6
hide 15, intimidate 15, move silently 15, bluff 15, open lock 15, spot 14
improved two-weapon fighting
Improved Feign


13th
Twisted Lord 4
9/4
3
12
6
hide 16, intimidate 16, move silently 16, bluff 16, open lock 16, spot 16, jump 12
-
Peripheral invisibility


14th
twisted lord 5
9/4
3
12
6
hide 17, intimidate 17, move silently 17, bluff 17, open lock 17, spot 17, jump 14
-
sneak attack +6d6


15th
twisted Lord 6
10/5
4
13
7
hide 18, intimidate 18, move silently 18, bluff 18, open lock 18, spot 18, jump 16
Titan fighting
Improved Demoralize


16th
twisted lord 7
11/5/1
4
13
7
hide 19, intimidate 19, move silently 19, bluff 19, open lock 19, spot 19, jump 18
-
Twist target


17th
Twisted lord 8
12/6/2
4
14
7
hide 20, intimidate 20, move silently 20, bluff 20, open lock 20, spot 20, jump 20
-
sneak attack +7d6


18th
Twisted lord 9
12/6/2
5
14
8
hide 21, intimidate 21, move silently 21, bluff 21, open lock 21, spot 21, jump 21, climb 5
Greater two-weapon fighting
Twist perceptions


19th
Twisted Lord 10
13/7/3
5
15
8
hide 22, intimidate 22, move silently 22, bluff 22, open lock 22, spot 22, jump 22, climb 6
-
Twist mind


20th
Swordsage 3
14/8/4
6
15
8
hide 23, move silently 23, intimidate 23, jump 23, climb 8
-
-






Level
Maneuvers known
maneuvers readied
stances known


8th
Cloak of Deception, Shadow Jaunt, Wolf fang Strike, Rabid wolf strike, Distracting ember, burning blade
4
Hunter's sense


9th
Soaring raptor strike
4
Assassin's stance


20th
Dancing Mongoose
5
-



During the early levels, Grim is a simple rogue with an emphasis on stealth and information gathering skills. His small size, low strength and dependency on finesse weapons means that you are very dependent on getting sneak attacks for damage, so coordinating with melee allies is very important to set up those flanking situations. Two-weapon fighting does mean that once a flanking situation has been set up you can hit fairly hard. You should attempt to make optimal use of your good hide and move silent checks to try and be in a position to ambush enemies whenever possible.

: Ideally speaking, you’d like to start playing this build on level 8 or 9, as it starts coming into its own here. You pick up two levels of Swordsage, giving you access to a number of maneuvres, 2 of which allows you to set up situations for sneak attacking as a swift action (meaning you can make a full-round attack of sneak attacks). At level 9 you pick up the Assassin’s Stance and the shadow blade feat. You will be in assassin’s stance pretty much permanently in combat, and shadow blade allows you to apply dexterity instead of strength to your damage, which means your low strength stops hurting your damage output. You can start playing more aggressively at this point, as you no longer depend as much on your allies to set up flanking situations. You can start attacking back-rank enemies, such as archers or casters while the rest of the party deals with the front-line

You also pick up some utility tricks, in the form of the shadow jaunt maneuver and the Hunter’s sense stance. The former is an at-will 50ft teleport, and though the fact that it is a standard action reduces its utility in combat, it is recharged with a complex action, so you can teleport all day long outside of combat. Hunter’s sense gives you the scent special ability, which is very useful when exploring winding tunnels or other areas with poor visibility.


During the first 6 levels of twisted lord, your play-style doesn’t change too much. Peripheral invisibility gives you another in-combat invisibility, though it is unlikely you’ll be able to use it while within melee-range of an enemy. You can combine it with wolf-fang strike as a way to boost your damage while closing with an enemy however. It can also be sued out of combat for quick peaks around corners or other acts of stealth. Improved feint means that you can set up single sneak attacks, which also combines with single attack, standard-action maneuvers, such as soaring raptor strike.

In the final 3 levels of twisted lord, the amount of options in combat increases even more. Twist target can be used to redirect an enemy attack to another enemy, reducing incoming damage and increasing outgoing damage. Stunning an enemy through twist perceptions is lethal if that enemy can’t make the save on his own round(or if there is another sneak attacker in the party), as you can calmly dissect that enemy with sneak attacks afterwards. Twist mind is useful as well, especially in fights against only 1 or two enemies, provided these enemies have a fairly weak will save. After all, “Drop your weapons, assume a prone position and make sure our barbarian has a good shot at your neck with his great-axe” is a perfectly valid set of actions to have the enemy giant take, after all.
Depending on how the enemy DM rules the behaviour of someone under the influence of Twist Mind, it might have some limited out of combat utility as well, though this depends a lot on how a DM rules your ability to control someone’s actions. It could potentially be used to get someone to tell you a secret, cast a specific spell for you or (provided he’s get a very low will-save) escort you into a hideout or other well-guarded compound belonging to his organization.

The 3rd level of swordsage also grants you access to a high-level maneuver (up to level 6), because of the way initiator level works (it’s ½* level in other classes + levels initiator classes). Dancing Mongoose allows you to take two additional attacks at the highest BaB as a swift action boost, which is perfect for either maximizing the damage against flat-footed enemies at the start of combat, or making optimal use of a flanking situation set up by an ally.

At the final levels, combat will be fairly similar to that at lower levels to start with, but in between dropping lots of d6 on full-round sneak attacks, you should be looking for opportunities to use your twisted lord powers to influence vulnerable enemies to set them up to be taken out of the fight.


There is one particular feat that would really work well with the mechanics of this build, being the ‘Craven’ feat. It lets you add your character level in damage to each sneak attack, but also imposes a -2 penalty on attempts to resist fear effects. Given that twistroot is said to inflict horrific nightmares, which kill some people who try to transform into twisted lords, taking a feat that basically states that you are not the bravest soul around doesn’t really match with the fluff imho. If you don’t care for that though, take craven instead of dodge, and adaptive style instead of titan fighting. This allows you to drop crazy amounts of sneak attack damage all fight long, and you can refresh all the manoeuvres needed to set those up at once for a full-round action.

Another way to get a bit more power out of the character is to leave its strength at 8 (6 after racial mods) this is only really going to work if you start at level 9, because otherwise the -2 to damage is really going to hurt you in the previous 8 levels.



Races of Stone: Whisper Gnome, Titan fighting Feat
Tome of Battle: Swordsage, Shadow Hand feat
Dungeonscape: Rogue ACF: penetrating strike

[Heliomance]

"What happened to your first husband?"
"Oh, it's terribly sad. He died of food poisoning after I gave him a plate of mushrooms for dinner."
"And your second husband?"
"The same. Plate of mushrooms. Food poisoning."
"And your third husband, did he die of food poisoning as well?"
"No, he died of head trauma. He wouldn't eat the mushrooms."



Handsome Malcolm

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/2a/ea/2d/2aea2dd561ea5e9f8e0139410b8c5b49.jpg

The woman closed the door and turned around, then walked over to the bed where her husband was already getting undressed. She took a moment to admire his body, still lithe despite his five decades of age, and smiled.

When her previous husband died last year, she'd been sure she'd never find love again. But then, just months ago, she'd met Walter, and that had been the start of their whirlwind romance.

"Martha, do you love me?" he asked in that sexy, sexy voice of his. The woman smiled and undid her dress's straps.

"Of course I do, Walter. Why do you ask?"

The man didn't reply, but his expression grew more serious, and a frown appeared on his face. Martha opened her mouth to ask again, but then she saw it.

Walter was changing.

His nose, straight and spotless a moment before, twisted and fused with neighbouring flesh until it was little more than a bulge in his face with two ragged holes in it. His upper lip split, revealing a row of dirty teeth. His back contorted until he was sitting in a horrible hunched position, and with a sickening sound his limbs dislocated.

"And now, Martha?" the terrible creature whispered from its mouth-hole. "Do you still love me?"

She shrieked and leapt backwards, her left hand raised in front of her as the other one began to feel around for the doorknob.

"Who are you? What are you?" she screamed.

The thing in front of her twisted its face even further, into something completely incomprehensible, and, with a great leap, closed the distance between the two of them in seconds.

Martha felt something sharp poking her throat, followed by a jolt of pain, followed by nothing at all.

She failed to notice the tear making its way down her husband's face.


Malcolm, the Black Widower

http://scp-wiki.wdfiles.com/local--files/scp-957/mummy%20thing.jpg

NE Middle-Aged Silverbrow Human Sneak Attack Zhentarim Soldier Thug Fighter (Skilled City-Dweller) 9/Chameleon 1/Twisted Lord 10

Malcolm starts with the following scores, adjusted for being middle-aged.

STR: 10
DEX: 12
CON: 10
INT: 14
WIS: 12
CHA: 18

Malcolm increases charisma at level 4, 8, 12, and 16. At level 20 he increases strength instead.



Level
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Skills
Feats
Class Features


1st
Sneak Attack Thug Fighter 1
+1
+2
+0
+0
Bluff 4, Craft (Poisonmaking) 4, Disguise 4, Intimidate 4, Sense Motive 2, Spellcraft 2
Able Learner, Combat Expertise
Sneak Attack +1d6


2nd
Sneak Attack Thug Fighter 2
+2
+3
+0
+0
Bluff 5, Craft (Poisonmaking) 5, Disguise 5, Intimidate 5, Skill Trick (Second Impression) 2
-
-


3rd
Zhentarim Soldier Sneak Attack Thug Fighter 3
+3
+3
+1
+1
Bluff 6, Craft (Poisonmaking) 6, Disguise 6, Intimidate 6, Sense Motive 3, Spellcraft 3
Craven, Skill Focus (Intimidate)B
Sneak Attack +2d6


4th
Sneak Attack Thug Fighter 4
+4
+4
+1
+1
Bluff 7, Craft (Poisonmaking) 7, Disguise 7, Intimidate 7, Skill Trick (Assume Quirk) 2
-
-


5th
Zhentarim Soldier Sneak Attack Thug Fighter 5
+5
+4
+1
+1
Bluff 8, Craft (Poisonmaking) 8, Disguise 8, Intimidate 8, Sense Motive 4, Spellcraft 4
-
Extended Intimidation, Sneak Attack +3d6


6th
Sneak Attack Thug Fighter 6
+6/+1
+5
+2
+2
Bluff 9, Craft (Poisonmaking) 9, Disguise 9, Intimidate 9, Skill Trick (Never Outnumbered) 2
Imperious Command



7th
Sneak Attack Thug Fighter 7
+7/+2
+5
+2
+2
Bluff 10, Craft (Poisonmaking) 10, Disguise 10, Intimidate 10, Tumble 2
-
Sneak Attack +4d6


8th
Sneak Attack Thug Fighter 8
+8/+3
+6
+2
+2
Bluff 11, Craft (Poisonmaking) 11, Disguise 11, Intimidate 11, Tumble 4
-
-


9th
Zhentarim Soldier Sneak Attack Thug Fighter 9
+9/+4
+6
+3
+3
Bluff 12, Craft (Poisonmaking) 12, Disguise 12, Intimidate 12, Tumble 6
Quick Draw
Sneak Attack +5d6, Swift Demoralization


10th
Chameleon 1
+9/+4
+6
+3
+3
Bluff 13, Craft (Poisonmaking) 13, Disguise 13, Use Magic Device 3
-
Aptitude Focus


11th
Twisted Lord 1
+9/+4
+6
+5
+3
Bluff 14, Craft (Poisonmaking) 14, Disguise 14, Intimidate 14, Tumble 10, Use Magic Device 4
-
Twisted Form


12th
Twisted Lord 2
+10/+5
+6
+6
+3
Bluff 15, Craft (Poisonmaking) 15, Disguise 15, Intimidate 15, Move Silently 1, Tumble 15
Practiced Spellcaster (Chameleon)
Sneak Attack +6d6


13th
Twisted Lord 3
+11/+6/+1
+7
+6
+4
Bluff 16, Disguise 16, Hide 1, Intimidate 16, Move Silently 2, Tumble 16, Skill Trick (Timely Misdirection) 2, Skill Trick (Group Fake-Out) 2
Improved FeintB



14th
Twisted Lord 4
+12/+7/+2
+7
+7
+4
Bluff 17, Disguise 17, Hide 4, Intimidate 17, Move Silently 5, Tumble 17
-
Peripheral Invisibility


15th
Twisted Lord 5
+12/+7/+2
+7
+7
+4
Bluff 18, Disguise 18, Hide 7, Intimidate 18, Move Silently 8, Tumble 18
Craft Wondrous Item
+7d6 Sneak Attack


16th
Twisted Lord 6
+13/+8/+3
+8
+8
+5
Bluff 19, Disguise 19, Hide 10, Intimidate 19, Move Silently 11, Tumble 19
-
Improved Demoralize


17th
Twisted Lord 7
+14/+9/+4
+8
+8
+5
Bluff 20, Disguise 20, Hide 13, Intimidate 20, Move Silently 14, Tumble 20
-
Twist Target


18th
Twisted Lord 8
+15/+10/+5
+8
+9
+5
Bluff 21, Disguise 21, Hide 16, Intimidate 21, Move Silently 15, Tumble 21
Surprising Riposte
+8d6 Sneak Attack


19th
Twisted Lord 9
+15/+10/+5
+9
+9
+6
Bluff 22, Disguise 22, Hide 19, Intimidate 22, Move Silently 18, Tumble 22
-
Twist Perceptions


20th
Twisted Lord 10
+16/+11/+6/+1
+9
+10
+6
Bluff 23, Hide 23, Intimidate 23, Move Silently 22
-
Twist Mind



From level 10 on, Malcolm can cast 4 level 0 spells, 3 level 1 spells, and 1 level 2 spell while his arcane focus is active.

His spellbook should at the very least include Absorb Weapon, in addition to whatever spells are needed for crafting.

Malcolm begins his career as an attractive young thug working for various shady organizations, including the Zhentarim. He may not be physically intimidating, but he's good at sticking swords in vulnerable parts and can be of great help when some arms need twisting. After working side-by-side with a variety of minions and employers for decades, he's picked up a handful of their skills, including some assassin magic.

It is then that the Ebon Cabal approaches him, offering power untold in exchange for a few completed missions. True to their word, they grant Malcolm the promised skills, but at a horrible price: his beautiful face he once prized is disfigured forever, and even though he could disguise it, doing so feels wrong, as if he is just loosely draping another person's skin over himself.

Malcolm's wife, a former partner of his he ended up marrying, initially knows nothing about his condition, unaware he feels nothing but revulsion when her presence forces him to assume that twisted body he once called his.

It is then that all goes wrong.

In one of the moments that Malcolm briefly assumes his more comfortable shape, he is spotted by his wife. Not realizing what she's looking at, she responds with force to the unfamiliar intruder in her home.

Malcolm, already nervous, strikes back blindly, and before he knows it his wife is dead. As he watches her breathe her last, something snaps in his mind.

Malcolm disappears, and what happens next is unknown. Some say he returned to the Ebon Cabal, seeking the company of those few who'd accept his deformity. Some say he killed himself. Some say he journeyed to distant, empty lands, where he lived out the remainder of his days by himself.

Unfortunately, the truth is far more gruesome.

Using his skill at disguise magical and mundane, Malcolm has become a many-faced killer, seducing many, then killing them as they unfailingly reject his monstrous form. Their wedding rings he takes and turns into razor-sharp blades, some of which he conceals within his own body.

Now, the Black Widower is a feared assassin who is both an unpredictable combatant whose impossible feints leave his target's defenses wide open, and a terrifying manipulator who can leave even the toughest foes broken and cowering messes.

Malcolm begins play as a pretty standard fighter, albeit one with a strange skill-set. At these levels, just run up to things and stab them, preferably from flanking positions. Out of combat, you can contribute with your not inconsiderable bluff, intimidate, and disguise scores (remember, Malcolm has 18 charisma!). If you can spare the money, crafting some poison should also help the team.

Now we're talking: not only does Malcolm pick up the wonderful Imperious Command, he also gets Swift Demoralization and Never Outnumbered, completing the holy trifecta of intimidation.

He also gets some slight spellcasting from Chameleon, currently pretty insignificant but hugely important in the future.

Welcome to the special ingredient! Malcolm can now turn into a form that grants bonuses to feints and intimidation attempts, in which he spends as much time as possible. The events of his tragic backstory occur somewhere around here, giving Malcolm a good reason to switch from blades to poison rings (also, enemy AC starts getting too high to keep up with).

Speaking of feints, Malcom gets two skill tricks that boost them further.

Sneak Attack gets further advanced, and Malcolm gets his third attack a round, making those full attacks even deadlier.

This is also the time where the build's main routine becomes available, which combines the three things Twisted Lord wants you to do (Sneak Attacking, Feinting, and Intimidating) in a single round. How, you ask?

Well, that's all thanks to two small feats we got. Practiced Spellcaster raises Malcom's Chameleon CL enough to qualify for Craft Wondrous Item, which combined with his virtually limitless access to every 2nd-level or lower spell allows for quite a bit of item creation.

We're going to use it for something easier, though: Pearls of Power. The 2nd-level version is 2000 GP to make, and there's no limit on the number you can employ in a day. We're going to use it to cast a specific spell over and over again during.

What spell, you ask? Absorb Weapon from the Spell Compendium. You may already realize what I'm getting at here. If not, feel free to look it up.

That's right: free action feint attempts as long as we draw the absorbed weapon in the round we attack! Four PoPs let us hide a weapon all day long, so we don't need more than twenty or so pearls: easily affordable by now.

To summarize, Malcolm's intended action sequence looks like this now:

Free: Draw absorbed weapon.
Swift: Intimidate, potentially causing foes to be Cowering. Never Outnumbered may be used as well.
Free: Feint with a huge bonus against priority target that isn't cowering, using Group Fake-Out if necessary.
Full-round: Full attack, most likely with Sneak Attack thrown on.

In any rounds that follow, drop your weapon as a free action, immediately draw a new one, and repeat.


Four attacks per round now. In addition to all the earlier awesomeness Surprising Riposte turns your feints into round-round debuffs the entire party can profit from, in addition to giving you even more opportunities to sneak attack.

The various Twists provide some more options, and are definitely valid uses of your action if you find yourself near any shaken foes.

As said before, Malcolm uses Craft Wondrous Item to create Pearls of Power for himself.

In addition, the feat allows him to enchant his poison rings, give himself ability and skill bonuses, and create useful minor utility items.

I recommend creating items of continuous Grave Strike and Golem Strike, should the DM allow them, to better deal with nonliving creatures.

A Good-aligned version of this build ought to be possible (obviously changing a lot of the fluff). In such a case, a feat could be replaced with Intuitive Attack, allowing Malcolm to focus solely on his mental ability scores (perhaps by increasing his age even further).

Do note that because of the difficulties inherit in being Exalted while also enjoying membership in the Zhentarim and Ebon Cabal, the feat is perhaps best not taken until Malcolm doesn't need to be friendly with either organization anymore.


Also, as Malcolm is already drawing a weapon every round and rendering foes flat-footed, why not enter Human Paragon for a level to make Iaijutsu Focus a permanent class skill? It'll cause him to lose his third iterative attack, but the damage gain from IF probably outweighs that.

All non-PHB sources are listed here.

CA:
Practiced Spellcaster

CAdv:
Skill tricks!

CoR:
Craven

CoV Web Enhancement:
Zhentarim Soldier

DM:
Silverbrow Human

DotU:
Imperious Command, Surprising Riposte

RoD:
Able Learner, Chameleon

SC:
Absorb Weapon

tSGoS:
Twisted Lord

UA:
Sneak Attack Fighter, Thug

[Heliomance]

Good people are so gullible...



Gajsan


Race: Diabolus LA +1 (Dragon Compendium)
Classes and Progression: Mountebank (Dragon Compendium) 6/Twisted Lord 10 / Uncanny Trickster (Complete Scoundrel) 3
Alignment: CN (every neutral or evil Alignment is possible)
Stats:
Strength 10
Dexterity 16
Constitution 10
Wisdom 10
Intelligence 14
Charisma 16 (21)
All increases due to level ups go to Charisma


"Stay still, Demon!" Sir Michael of the Luminous Order pointing his longsword at the disfigured creature sitting at the well. Gajsan slowly turned with his arms raised. "Mercy, my lord! I ain't no demon, just a cursed farmer. My name is Arthur Miller, my lord. My family was slaughtered by a fowl demon. He spared me but turned me into this hideous form." Sir Michael hesitated. There was still doubt in his eyes. "Where was your farm located?", he finally responded. "On top of the hill three miles down the road. The hill is called Nettlestone and the farm of my family carried the same name: Nettlestone farm. Mercy, my lord. Please help me." Slowly the knight lowered his sword. "Foul demons. My condolences to you." Gajsan almost burst out in laughter but contained himself. "I am afraid I cannot lift that curse of you but maybe one of my colleagues can. Follow me, I will bring you to Father Erman in Alvendale." Gajsan frowned: "Sir, I cannot leave further. I am so glad I found you. My livestock would die. I cannot travel that far. Other families depend on the milk my goats produce." Sir Michael noded. "Well in that case, I'll go and fetch Father Erman." He noded north where the road started winding into the hills. "Three miles you said? I will find you in your farm. Be blessed, my friend. Help is on the way!" "Thank you so much. I'll await you eagerly." Sir Michael turned, summoned a horse out of nothing and rode off.
When Sir Michael was out of sight, Gajsan sat down again. He took out a note which read: "Lure Erman of Alvendale away from Alvendale for a few days." He crossed it off and mumbled: "Well, that was easy." He tossed the note in the well. "One less favor I owe and possibly a fool in the luminous order I can use more often."





Level
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Skills
Feats
Class Features


1st
Diabolus
-
-
-
-
-
-
+1 LA


2nd
Mountebank
+0
+0
+2
+0
Bluff 4, Intimidate 4, Escape Artist 4, Hide 4, Move Silently 4, Use Magic device 4, Search 4, Disable Device 4
Improved Initiative
Beguiling stare, bonus language (Abyssal), mark of damnation, trap finding


3rd
Mountebank
+1
+0
+3
+0
Bluff 5, Intimidate 5, Escape Artist 5, Hide 5, Move Silently 5, Use Magic device 5, Search 5, Disable Device 5
-
Deceptive attack +ld6


4th
Mountebank
+2
+1
+3
+1
Bluff 6, Intimidate 6, Escape Artist 6, Hide 6, Move Silently 6, Use Magic device 6, Search 6, Disable Device 6
Weapon Finesse
Infernal patron, mass beguile


5th
Mountebank
+3
+1
+4
+1
Bluff 7, Intimidate 7, Escape Artist 7, Hide 7, Move Silently 7, Use Magic device 7, Search 7, Disable Device 7
-
Infernal guise


6th
Mountebank
+3
+1
+4
+1
Bluff 8, Intimidate 8, Escape Artist 8, Hide 8, Move Silently 8, Use Magic device 8, Search 8, Disable Device 8
-
Disguise the soul's aspect


7th
Mountebank
+4
+2
+5
+2
Bluff 9, Intimidate 9, Escape Artist 9, Hide 9, Move Silently 9, Use Magic device 9, Search 9, Disable Device 9
Martial Study: Shadow blade technique (tome of battle)
Deceptive attack +2d6


8th
Twisted Lord
+4
+2
+7
+2
Bluff 10, Intimidate 10, Escape Artist 10, Hide 10, Move Silently 10, Use Magic device 10, Search 10, Disable Device 10, Knowledge (local) 1, Tumble 1

Twisted form


9th
Twisted Lord
+5
+2
+8
+2
Bluff 11, Intimidate 11, Escape Artist 11, Hide 11, Move Silently 11, Use Magic device 11, Search 11, Disable Device 11, Knowledge (local) 2, Tumble 2

+1d6 sneak attack


10th
Twisted Lord
+6
+3
+8
+3
Bluff 12, Intimidate 12, Escape Artist 12, Hide 12, Move Silently 12, Use Magic device 12, Search 12, Disable Device 12, Knowledge (local) 3, Tumble 3
Shadow Blade (tome of battle)
Improved Feint


11th
Twisted Lord
+7
+3
+9
+3
Bluff 13, Intimidate 13, Escape Artist 13, Hide 13, Move Silently 13, Use Magic device 13, Search 13, Disable Device 13, Knowledge (local) 4, Tumble 4
-
Peripheral invisibility


12th
Twisted Lord
+7
+3
+9
+3
Bluff 14, Intimidate 14, Escape Artist 14, Hide 14, Move Silently 14, Use Magic device 14, Search 14, Disable Device 14, Knowledge (local) 5, Tumble 5
-
+2d6 sneak attack


13th
Twisted Lord
+8
+4
+10
+4
Bluff 15, Intimidate 15, Escape Artist 15, Hide 15, Move Silently 15, Use Magic device 15, Search 15, Disable Device 15, Knowledge (local) 5, Tumble 5, Skill trick: Never outnumbered
Darkstalker (Lords of Madness)
Improved demoralize


14th
Twisted Lord
+9
+4
+10
+4
Bluff 16, Intimidate 16, Escape Artist 16, Hide 16, Move Silently 16, Use Magic device 16, Search 16, Disable Device 16, Knowledge (local) 5, Tumble 5, Skill trick: Escape Attack
-
Twist target


15th
Twisted Lord
+10
+4
+11
+4
Bluff 17, Intimidate 17, Escape Artist 17, Hide 17, Move Silently 17, Use Magic device 17, Search 17, Disable Device 17, Knowledge (local) 5, Tumble 5, Skill trick: Collector of stories
-
+3d6 sneak attack


16th
Twisted Lord
+10
+5
+11
+5
Bluff 18, Intimidate 18, Escape Artist 18, Hide 18, Move Silently 18, Use Magic device 18, Search 18, Disable Device 18, Knowledge (local) 5, Tumble 5, Skill trick: Easy escape
Imperious Command (Drow of the Underdark)
Twist perceptions


17th
Twisted Lord
+11
+5
+12
+5
Bluff 19, Intimidate 19, Escape Artist 19, Hide 19, Move Silently 19, Use Magic device 19, Search 19, Disable Device 19, Knowledge (local) 5, Tumble 5, Balance 2
-
Twist mind


18th
Uncanny Trickster
+11
+5
+14
+5
Bluff 20, Intimidate 20, Escape Artist 20, Hide 20, Move Silently 20, Use Magic device 20, Search 20, Disable Device 20, Knowledge (local) 5, Tumble 5, Balance 4
-
Bonus trick (group fake out), favorite trick (never outnumbered)


19th
Uncanny Trickster
+12
+5
+15
+5
Bluff 21, Intimidate 21, Escape Artist 21, Hide 21, Move Silently 21, Use Magic device 21, Search 21, Disable Device 21, Knowledge (local) 6, Tumble 5, Balance 5
Craven
Bonus trick (timely misdirection), favorite trick (escape attack), Sneak Attack +4d6


20th
Uncanny Trickster
+13
+6
+15
+6
Bluff 22, Intimidate 22, Escape Artist 22, Hide 22, Move Silently 22, Use Magic device 22, Search 22, Disable Device 22, Knowledge (local) 8, Tumble 5, Balance 5
-
Bonus trick (nimble charge), favorite trick (nimble charge), Sneak Attack +5d6




Mountebank levels:
Mountebank is a Charisma based rogue-like Base Class which makes it a natural choice for entering Twisted Lord. Moreover Mountebank has a dead level 7 which makes leaving the class at 6 even better. It fits thematically as it caters to Demons with its unique class features (Infernal Patron).
Mountebank is known to be a poor base class (sometimes referred to as "Face Rogue") but it has some pretty nifty features. One of the best is Infernal Disguise which is basically Alter Self fueled by the Mountebanks Infernal Patron ability. Gajsan can use Alter self for 60 Minutes 3+Charisma Bonus times per day. Alter Self is the reason why I chose an Outsider race. It opens up some many shenanigans (Dwarf Ancestor +18 natural armor, Black Abishai for flight and four natural attacks, Tiefling or Aasimar for social situations and many more. There are about 200 alter self threads out there. check them out.) Then I realized that Diabolus is also perfect thanks to its racial boni: +2 bonus to intimidate while it has a -2 penalty on diplomacy(and others) which is basically exactly what I was looking for regarding twisted form. The natural tail attack isn't too bad regarding you can still sneak attack with it but I did not have enough points left to increase constitution disregarding the poison a little bit.
The feats still feel rather bland to me but it was the only way to make Gajsan somewhat capable in combat. I couldn't achieve single attribute dependency but I at least reduced it to Dex and Cha.

Twisted Lord levels:
Twisted Lord is entered at the earliest possible level assuming Gajsan has fulfilled the requirements regarding affiliation score. Twisted form makes Gajsan very hard to grapple and fuels his demoralize engine. Feinting helps once enemies aren't flatfooted anymore. UMD is high enough to reliable use wands which widens Gajsans repertoire significantly. The skill trick never outnumbered is chosen exactly when demoralize is improved to a move action. You may ask yourself why I don't pick up Imperious command right away too and I mulled over it quite some time. In the end I value Darkstalker more because it helps Gajsan survive. If you disagree simply swap the feats.

The Uncanny Trickster levels:
I tried a lot of different things for the last 3 levels: from dips (warblade, avenging executioner) to some oddball things (chaotician, fatemaker). In the end I chose the most elegant thing I could find. Uncanny Trickster progresses Sneak Attack caters to the high skill points needed and powers up some skill tricks.

Sweet spots: level 8, 13, 18 and 20

How to use Gajsan:
Gajsan is always in Twisted Form. Gajsan usually will try to learn as much as possible about enemies by using bluff possibly combined with Alter Self to enter a social situation. Disguise the souls aspect may help with that. If peaceful approach is no option he will use stealth (hide + dark stalker, peripheral invisibility). Opening up combat is either done by beguiling, demoralizing or simply stealth but Gajsan only attacks if he can sneak attack and/or deceptive attack. Preferably Gajsan has also used Alter Self to enhance his melee capabilities unless his gear is already better than a lot of natural attacks. Natural attacks are considered light weapons for weapon finesse but you cannot add your dexterity to damage with natural weapons as they are not shadow hand weapons. So some calculation might be needed to know what your highest damage output is. Generally I'd assume that once you have very highly enchanted weapons and high dexterity you won't use natural attacks too often. Since you are Charisma based, the sudden stunning enhancement (DMG II) should be a given for you. It is especially great once you have the escape attack skill trick and possibly stun an opponent who tries to grapple you. Knowledge (local) and collector of stories as well as craven furthers your damage potential in the later levels. The most likely all out battle form would be Dwarf Ancestor as +18 natural attack is pretty unbeatable and the size increase increases damage slightly.


All skill tricks are out of Complete Scoundrel.
The rest is quoted or should be on the SRD.

[Heliomance]

Someone not to meet on a dark night



http://rocbo.lautre.net/gilgamesh/img/Gilgamesh_Humbaba_portrait.gif
Two-Faced Ivan, The Dark Alley Terror

LE Desert Half-Orc Thug Fighter 2/Paladin of Tyranny 3/Menacing Brute 5/Twisted Lord 10

Abilities (With Racial Modifiers)
Str 14
Dex 10
Con 14 (16)
Int 14 (12)
Wis 10
Cha 16 (increases here)
Build


Level
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Skills
Feats
Class Features


1st
Thug Fighter 1
+1
+2
+0
+0
Bluff 4, Intimidate 4, Jump 4, Search 2(4), Tumble 4
Iron Will, (B)Run
Skilled City Dweller: Ride>Tumble


2nd
Thug Fighter 2
+2
+3
+0
+0
Bluff 5, Intimidate 5, Jump 5, Knowledge (Local) 2
(B)Martial Study(Distracting Ember)
Bonus Feat


3rd
Paladin of Tyranny 1
+3
+5
+0
+0
Bluff 6(2), Tumble 6
Hardened Criminal (Intimidate)
Aura of Evil, Detect Good, Smite Good 1/day


4th
Paladin of Tyranny 2
+4
+6
+0
+0
Bluff 7(2), Tumble 7

Divine Grace, Deadly Touch


5th
Paladin of Tyranny 3
+5
+6
+1
+1
Bluff 8(2), Tumble 8

Aura of Despair, Divine Health


6th
Menacing Brute 1
+6/+1
+8
+1
+1
Intimidate 9, Search 3
Shape Soulmeld (Fearsome Mask)
Demoralizing Stare


7th
Menacing Brute 2
+7/+2
+9
+1
+1
Bluff 9(2), Intimidate 10, Search 5

Resourceful Search


8th
Menacing Brute 3
+8/+3
+9
+2
+2
Intimidate 11, Search 9

Sneak Attack +1d6


9th
Menacing Brute 4
+9/+4
+10
+2
+2
Intimidate 12, Search 12, Sense Motive 1
Imperious Command
Ruthless Cut


10th
Menacing Brute 5
+10/+5
+10
+2
+2
Never Outnumbered, Intimidate 13, Search 13, Sense Motive 2

Making an Example


11th
Twisted Lord 1
+10/+5
+10
+4
+2
Intimidate 14, Use Magic Device 8

Twisted Form


12th
Twisted Lord 2
+11/+6/+1
+10
+5
+2
Bluff 10, Intimidate 15, Use Magic Device 15
Open Lesser Chakra (Brow)
+2d6 Sneak Attack


13th
Twisted Lord 3
+12/+7/+2
+11
+5
+3
Group Fake-Out, Bluff 16, Intimidate 16
(B)Improved Feint
Improved Feint


14th
Twisted Lord 4
+13/+8/+3
+11
+6
+3
Bluff 17, Intimidate 17, Search 17, Tumble 11

Peripheral Invisibility


15th
Twisted Lord 5
+13/+8/+3
+11
+6
+3
Bluff 18, Hide 2, Intimidate 18, Move Silently 1, Search 18, Tumble 14
Terrifying Strike
+3d6 Sneak Attack


16th
Twisted Lord 6
+14/+9/+4
+12
+7
+3
Bluff 19, Hide 5, Intimidate 19, Move Silently 4, Search 19

Improved Demoralize


17th
Twisted Lord 7
+15/+10/+5
+12
+7
+3
Bluff 20, Hide 8, Intimidate 20, Move Silently 7, Search 20

Twist Target


18th
Twisted Lord 8
+16/+11/+6/+1
+12
+8
+3
Bluff 21, Hide 11, Intimidate 21, Move Silently 10, Search 21
Spectral Skirmisher
+4d6 Sneak Attack


19th
Twisted Lord 9
+16/+11/+6/+1
+13
+8
+4
Bluff 22, Hide 14, Intimidate 22, Move Silently 13, Search 22

Twist Perceptions


20th
Twisted Lord 10
+17/+12/+7/+2
+13
+9
+4
Bluff 23, Hide 17, Intimidate 23, Move Silently 17

Twist Mind


Backstory
From his beginnings as a petty crook on the city’s grimy streets, Ivan always had a mean streak in him. He was not as bloodthirsty as Mikhail the knife, or as strong as big Peotr, but he had an ability to influence others and a willingness to exert his will over weaker ones. He picked up a few skills on the streets, most of them related to violence and crime, but he was also educated in the code of the underground, of the alley, of the families. They were not held by the laws of the regular city folk, but their own were no less powerful for their simplicity. You could not work a normal job. You must obey your superiors. You will never report on any of your comrades.

This was a code that Ivan followed with fervent devotion. The crime lords had given him much by training him, and his dedication to them and the cause was absolute, and his faith guided his sword and protected him. He trained further in enhancing the natural ferocity of his tusked face into a truly daunting enemy. He had mastered his craft to the extent that he seemed to be masked by features far more unnerving than his own, which earned him his moniker.

When mad Alexei returned from his journey smuggling goods, he brought with him a new product from the scar, a bitter and nasty root more gnarled than seemed healthy for a plant, rumored to be capable of changing the consumer for the stronger, but also for the stranger. The crime lords were intrigued, but they wanted to see the effects for themselves. Ivan volunteered, as they knew he would, and sampled the vile substance. He felt slightly queasy, but not different, until the night following, when he was plagued by nightmares greater than he had ever inflicted. He awoke the next morning warped and malformed, but found no more discomfort than any other. His superiors concealed their repulsion and expressed excitement for the possibility, and ordered for more shipments.

As he consumed more Ivan’s mind altered in bizarre ways to match his body, and he began to learn to exert his own will enough to crumple the weak mind under him. He elevated from a threatening criminal to a legend whispered in every darkened alley, a hideous demon capable of striking from the shadows, moving even the bravest to terror, and working its way into the minds of the terrified to twist them to its dark purposes.
Level 5
Desert Half-Orc will provide us with an in for menacing brute, and is pleasantly without charisma penalty. Thug Fighter provides some helpful skill points and an improved list, and we can use that second level feat to nab Distracting Ember, allowing us to flank enemies by ourselves, proper setup for things to come. Paladin of Tyranny allows us to put our Cha to use on our saves as well as smites. Aura of Despair effectively raises the DC of anything we use. Deadly Touch is useful when you need to bypass armor, and will serve as an excellent vehicle for sneak attack once that is online. Hardened Criminal prevents us from falling prey to our own trick, and will also allow us to take 10 on intimidate for more reliable results.
*If your DM rules that you must qualify for Twisted Lord’s bonus feat, replace Martial Study with Combat Expertise and move one point from Cha to Int, also put one more point in UMD.
Level 10
Menacing Brute is a fascinating little PrC that pairs wonderfully with the SI. The first ability is pure gold, boosting Intimidate and keeping the target shaken for 5 more rounds! Resourceful search is useful for items that you wished you had but don’t have on you, and all it costs is time. Sneak attack gives us something to do with distracting ember, and don’t forget to deliver it on touch when enemies are being challenging. Making an example occurs any time you kill a creature, so you could easily see this operating multiple times in an encounter. If you wish you can use something like a bag of tricks to start combat with a kill for an opportunity to scare your foes.
Imperious Command is essential for an Intimidate build, the round of cowering means they’re susceptible to sneak attack and gives you time to move about safely to get in position, or heal up the team. The fearsome mask gives you a +2 insight bonus to Intimidate, which stacks with everything else, which is nice enough, but we’ll see it again.
Level 15
With this many levels under our belt, and assuming a free flow of information among thieves in the Ebon Cabal, we have a high enough affiliation score to enter the SI. Twisted Form boosts Intimidate even higher, and helpfully boosts bluff as well. Now being able to feint as a move action means that you can do this at the end of a round, then get a full attack on the next round with the first being a sneak attack. Peripheral invisibility can be used to make a quick escape, move into position, or just to make a sneak attack, since defenders are always denied Dex by an invisible attacker.
Fearsome Mask is back with a brow bind, and it’s now the setup for a neat trick. It gives you a gaze that renders foes shaken for 1 minute. It works as any gaze, so they will likely be trying to avert their eyes to reduce exposure. If they do so, they’re not looking directly at you, so you can turn on peripheral invisibility! If they don’t avert their gaze, then you hit them with the shaken effect, and can follow it up with demoralize to frighten for 6 rounds. Never outnumbered means that you can hit multiple foes at once with the same demoralize for no extra effort. Group fake-out allows you to feint several foes for a small penalty, so make sure to use these in combat. Terrifying Strike is our third effect, which makes up for its 1 round duration by not offering any save. If they can be scared, they are once you hit them with a sneak attack from invisibility or after feinting. At this point your UMD modifier is enough to always succeed on using wands, so incorporate your favorites into your adventuring gear, there are many possibilities.
Level 20
The final touches now. Your search modifier is high enough to always succeed on finding gear of up to 200gp worth, which can make for some decent gear in a pinch. It says nonmagical, so that likely means alchemical items are on the table, which can be a pretty good spread of consumables. Improved Demoralize plus Never Outnumbered makes for a pretty competitive move action. All three of the final abilities mention being next to a shaken foe, ask if they apply to frighten as once, or whether you should quit while ahead on foes. Twist target is great if anybody squishy has a guardian by them (remember animal companions will have poor will saves). Plus it can really distress your enemies to be told they weren’t “really” being controlled, since it isn’t a compulsion effect and won’t turn up on anything looking for it. Twist Perceptions means stunning, and a stunned target is a viable target for more sneak attack to refresh shaken, to keep their save to end the stun penalized. They also drop what they’re holding, so you can use this opportunity to take what they’re holding.
Twist Mind is the real interesting one. Because it takes a standard to control the target, you will likely use your move to either keep him in your aura to debuff, feint, or demoralize at your leisure. Or you can use this opportunity to become invisible or hide, to reduce enemy ability to mess with you. You can safely tumble through their square if you have to, and spectral skirmisher means that when someone misses when attacking you, you get an AoO, which is a sneak attack because you are invisible. Then the target is shaken, and setup for control. In terms of which rod to use, I’d suggest the open palm. The buckler is appreciated, and invisibility and obscuring mist are good setups for hiding and thus sneak attack.
You are always generating new targets for control, since if they can see you they are subject to the gaze, and if they can’t they will be sneak attacked for frightening attack.
Sources
Desert Half-Orc, Paladin of Tyranny, Iron Will, Thug Fighter: srd
Menacing Brute: Races of Destiny
Martial Study: Tome of Battle
Shape Soulmeld, Open Lesser Chakra: Magic of Incarnum
Imperious Command, Terrifying Strike: Drow of the Underdark
Hardened Criminal: City of Stormreach
Spectral Skirmisher: Player’s Handbook II
Skilled City Dweller: Urban Class Features Enhancements (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a)

[Heliomance]

This entry has been withdrawn at the request of the chef

[Heliomance]

The best thing about the Multitasking feat - you can use all ten arms to scratch your head while you figure out how it works.


Vreeb Veebilbrixt

http://i.imgur.com/SSbMZJx.png

Race: Insectile Diopsid (Level Adjustment +3)
Build Stub: Thug Fighter 2/Barbarian 1/Totemist 2/Warblade 1/Twisted Lord 5/Warblade +1/Twisted Lord +5
Multiclass Penalty: No.
Languages: Diopsid, Common, Terran, Undercommon
Alignment: NE
Ability Scores:


Ability
Score
Racial
Template
Points
4th
8th
12th
16th


Strength
12


4



13


Dexterity
16
-2
+4
6






Constitution
16
+2

6






Intelligence
14
-2

10


15



Wisdom
10

+2
0






Charisma
14


6
15
16








Level
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Skills
Feats
Class Features


1st
Thug Fighter 1
+1
+2
+0
+0
Balance 2(cc), Bluff 4, Hide 2(cc), Intimidate 4, Jump 4, UMD 2(cc)
Dreadful Wraith
Tremorsense 60', Wide Vision


2nd
Thug Fighter 2
+2
+3
+0
+0
Balance 2, Bluff 5(+1), Hide 2, Intimidate 5(+1), Jump 5(+1), Tumble 3(+3), UMD 2
Intimidating Strike
Skilled City-Dweller ACF (Tumble)


3rd
Barbarian 1
+3
+5
+0
+0
Balance 3(+2cc), Bluff 6(+2cc), Hide 2, Intimidate 6(+1), Jump 6(+1), Tumble 3, UMD 2

Spirit Lion Totem, Whirling Frenzy (UA variant), Skilled City-Dweller ACF (Tumble)


4th
Totemist 1
+3
+7
+2
+0
Balance 4(+2cc), Bluff 7(+2cc), Hide 2, Intimidate 6, Jump 6, Tumble 5(+2), UMD 2

Skilled City-Dweller ACF (Tumble)


5th
Totemist 2
+4
+8
+3
+0
Balance 4, Bluff 8(+2cc), Hide 2, Intimidate 6, Jump 6, Tumble 7(+2), UMD 2, Skill Trick: Never Outnumbered (+2)




6th
Warblade 1
+5
+10
+3
+0
Balance 5(+1), Bluff 9(+2cc), Hide 2, Intimidate 8(+2), Jump 6, Tumble 8(+1), UMD 2, Never Outnumbered 2
Multiattack
Battle Clarity (Ref saves), Weapon Aptitude


7th
Twisted Lord 1
+5
+10
+5
+0
Balance 5, Bluff 10(+1), Hide 2, Intimidate 10(+2), Jump 9(+3), Tumble 10(+2), UMD 2, Never Outnumbered 2, Skill Trick: Twisted Charge (+2)

Twisted Form


8th
Twisted Lord 2
+6
+10
+6
+0
Balance 5, Bluff 11(+1), Hide 4(+2), Intimidate 11(+1), Jump 10(+1), Tumble 11(+1), UMD 4(+2), Skill Trick: Group Fake-Out (+2), Never Outnumbered 2, Twisted Charge 2

Sneak Attack 1d6


9th
Twisted Lord 3
+7
+11
+6
+1
Balance 5, Bluff 12(+1), Hide 6(+2), Intimidate 12(+1), Jump 11(+1), Tumble 12(+1), UMD 6(+2), Group Fake-Out 2, Never Outnumbered 2, Skill Trick: Timely Misdirection (+2), Twisted Charge 2
Craven, Improved Feint



10th
Twisted Lord 4
+8
+11
+7
+1
Balance 5, Bluff 13(+1), Hide 9(+2), Intimidate 13(+1), Jump 12(+1), Tumble 13(+1), UMD 9(+3), Group Fake-Out 2, Never Outnumbered 2, Timely Misdirection 2, Twisted Charge 2

Peripheral Invisibility


11th
Twisted Lord 5
+8
+11
+7
+1
Balance 5, Bluff 14(+1), Hide 12(+3), Intimidate 13, Jump 13(+1), Tumble 13, UMD 12(+3), Skill Trick: Back On Your Feet (+2), Group Fake-Out 2, Never Outnumbered 2, Timely Misdirection 2, Twisted Charge 2

Sneak Attack 2d6


12th
Warblade 2
+9
+12
+7
+1
Balance 5, Bluff 15(+2cc), Hide 12, Intimidate 15(+2), Jump 13, Tumble 15(+2), UMD 12, Back On Your Feet 2, Group Fake-Out 2, Never Outnumbered 2, Timely Misdirection 2, Twisted Charge 2
Improved Multiweapon Fighting
Uncanny Dodge


13th
Twisted Lord 6
+10
+13
+8
+2
Balance 5, Bluff 16(+1), Hide 15(+3), Intimidate 16(+1), Jump 14(+1), Tumble 16(+1), UMD 15(+3), Back On Your Feet 2, Group Fake-Out 2, Never Outnumbered 2, Timely Misdirection 2, Twisted Charge 2

Improved Demoralize


14th
Twisted Lord 7
+11
+13
+8
+2
Balance 5, Bluff 17(+1), Hide 17(+2), Intimidate 17(+1), Jump 17(+3), Tumble 17(+1), UMD 17(+2), Back On Your Feet 2, Group Fake-Out 2, Never Outnumbered 2, Timely Misdirection 2, Twisted Charge 2

Twist Target


15th
Twisted Lord 8
+12
+13
+9
+2
Balance 5, Bluff 18(+1), Escape Artist 4(+4), Hide 18(+1), Intimidate 18(+1), Jump 18(+1), Tumble 18(+1), UMD 18(+1), Back On Your Feet 2, Group Fake-Out 2, Never Outnumbered 2, Timely Misdirection 2, Twisted Charge 2
Multitasking
Sneak Attack 3d6


16th
Twisted Lord 9
+12
+14
+9
+3
Balance 5, Bluff 19(+1), Escape Artist 8(+4), Hide 19(+1), Intimidate 19(+1), Jump 19(+1), Tumble 19(+1), UMD 19(+1), Back On Your Feet 2, Group Fake-Out 2, Never Outnumbered 2, Timely Misdirection 2, Twisted Charge 2

Twist Perceptions


17th
Twisted Lord 10
+13
+14
+10
+3
Balance 5, Bluff 20(+1), Escape Artist 12(+4), Hide 20(+1), Intimidate 20(+1), Jump 20(+1), Tumble 20(+1), UMD 20(+1), Back On Your Feet 2, Group Fake-Out 2, Never Outnumbered 2, Timely Misdirection 2, Twisted Charge 2

Twist Mind





Warblade 1: Claw at the Moon, Mountain Hammer, Sudden Leap, Punishing Stance

Warblade 2: Fountain of Blood



Gashkarr was still gloating, cackling with throaty laughter as the skulls recede and the hezrou fades from view, when Vreeb stepped in front of him.

"Hand over the medallion and the tome, Gashkarr," chirped Vreeb, holding out a segmented hand towards the gnoll chieftain.

Gashkarr stepped back and clutched the medallion hanging around his neck. "You dare?!?! We had a deal!"

Vreeb waved one of his hands at the dead bodies behind him. "Which is now complete. The Luminous Order is defeated. The Ebon Cabal will be quite pleased... particularly when I deliver them the medallion and the Tome of Slaughtergarde. You wouldn't want to... displease them, would you?"

Gashkarr reached for his falchion, but was barely able to get it out of its scabbard before the diopsid was on him. The gnoll chieftain was able to block the overhand chop, but no matter, Vreeb sliced in on both sides with his shortswords. On the right he slashed into the gnoll's thigh, and on the left he scraped a blade up into the gnoll's ribs. Gashkarr tried to back away, but the diopsid had positioned himself well. The gate behind the gnoll was closed. There was nowhere to go. Vreeb pressed his attack, unleashing a torrent of slashes. Gashkarr blocked the high slash, then swung back with a slash of his own. Vreeb trapped it with two crossed shortswords, brought his greatsword around for another high slash, then came in low on the other side with another pair of shortswords. One of them found the gnoll's ribs again, then a deep slash to the wrist, and finally a scream of rage cut short by a chop to the neck. With a short, wet gurgle, Gashkarr slumped to the ground and lay still.



Vreeb grew up near one of the population centers of the Underdark, but it was not an easy life. His unusual appearance (even by diopsid standards) made him an outsider and outcast from his own people. Rumors circulated that he was the result of a kuo-toa breeding program, but many years of teasing and bullying has muddled his recollection of his eggcase's parentage. He learned to survive in the stree-- uh, tunnels with quick wits, fast-talking blather, and a menacing demeanor. Vreeb has so-so combat skills for a fighter but can be particularly frightening when he wants to be (via Dreadful Wrath), so he relies more on Bluff and Intimidate more than his combat prowess. When cornered, Vreeb can wield a large-sized two handed weapon with four primary arms, keeping his two secondary arms free to provide support. His remaining two arms can carry a shield and a light source. If Vreeb has bitten off more than he can chew, he can use Tumble to hopefully get out of trouble.

Dreadful Wrath has an advantage over most other versions of Frightful Presence in that it does not have an HD cap, but also triggers only on a full attack or charge. At 2nd level, Vreeb picks up Intimidating Strike as his fighter bonus feat. This does feat does several things to complement Dreadful Wrath: it can be used as a standard action attack, it has a longer duration (lasts the entire encounter), it can be used repeatedly on an opponent that has already successfully saved against his Dreadful Wrath, or it can be used to shaken an opponents before using Dreadful Wrath to frighten the opponent. (Intimidating Strike itself cannot cause an opponent's fear level to go beyond shaken, but Dreadful Wrath has no such limitation).

It isn't clear from the rules text if using Intimidating Strike is the same effect as "Demoralize Opponent" from the PHB, so check with the DM if using Intimidating Strike counts as a Demoralizing effect. If not, then using "Demoralize Opponent" on an enemy already shakened or frightened could cause them to panic.

At 3rd level, Vreeb falls in with a somewhat less cosmopolitan tribe (more like a gang of tunnel thugs) and learns to tap into his more savage nature, channeling his Spirit Lion Totem (uh... cave lions... yeah, the Underdark totally has cave lions). He picks up Multi-Weapon Fighting along with Pounce and Whirling Frenzy, which allows him to shore up his weak Str score and utilize all of those extra arms for additional attacks. This new tribe of meldshapers teaches him about soulmelds, and rather than continue as a Barbarian he progresses into Totemist.

At 5th level, he adds an additional pair of arms with the Girallon Arms soulmeld, bringing his total up to ten. This also gives him four claw attacks, which isn't all that useful compared to just stabbing people with a half-dozen or so shortswords, but allows him to pick up Multiattack next level. In addition to Girallon Arms, he usually shapes Lamia Belt (+4 on Bluff and Hide checks) and Brass Mane (+4 on Intimidate checks). With these soulmelds enhancing his combat abilities, Vreeb earns the grudging respect of his gang, who in turn allow him to train in more sophisticated combat tactics. Also, Vreeb picks up the "Never Outnumbered" skill trick, which he can use with Intimidating Strike to turn a standard melee attack into an area-effect debuff.

At 6th level, Vreeb begins studying Warblade maneuvers, which Vreeb finds more effective against opponents resistant to his Dreadful Wrath/Intimidating Strikes. Punishing Stance gives him additional +1d6 damage on all his melee attacks (he has Natural Armor +6 to offset the -2 AC penalty), both Claw at the Moon and Mountain Hammer give him a standard attack with +2d6 damage, and Sudden Leap allows him to quickly back up 10' for a fear-inducing charge.



While working as a tunnel thug, Vreeb found himself picking up steady work hiring himself out to the Ebon Cabal as a caravan guard, personal bodyguard, and all-around meatbag. This brought him into contact with the bard Naryalla, who was impressed with his ability to talk or threaten his way out of trouble. She hired his gang to look into this Luminous Order and poke around something called Slaughtergarde. Betraying the Luminous Order and delivering the Armory to the Ebon Cabal was mostly a business decision: the Ebon Cabal offered more money. Vreeb himself is something of a moral pragmatist, in that he doesn't care much who does what with the Armory. The Ebon Cabal wants the gate for summoning demons or whatever... why shouldn't they take it and use it however they want? What was the Luminous Order going to do with it, turn it into an orphanage? So they wear white robes, does that make them good? And the Ebon Cabal wears black robes, so they are automatically evil? How simple and convenient the world would be, if we just indicated every creature's moral worth by making them wear different colors!

As a reward for delivering the Slaughtergarde Armory to the Ebon Cabal, Vreeb was offered the opportunity to partake in the Twistroot Ritual and join the Ebon Cabal as a Twisted Lord. If most people found his appearance unsettling before, well then... why settle for half-measures? If people judge him by his appearance, why not give them the monster they want him to be? For his Rod of the Tower, Vreeb selects the Pointing Finger/+1 Dagger.

The most immediate benefit of Twisted Form is the +4 on Intimidate checks, which makes his Dreadful Wrath and Intimidating Strike feats much more potent. This assumes both Dreadful Wrath and Intimidating Strike are considered to be the same as a "Demoralize Opponent" check. This isn't clear from the text, but the PHB Skill section only lists two possible uses for Intimidate checks: "Change another's behavior" and "Demoralize Opponent". Since Demoralize Opponent is the only one that can be made during combat and results in the opponent being shaken, it's hard to imagine that Dreadful Wrath or Intimidating Strike would be considered "changing another's behavior". +4 on Bluff checks to feint in combat isn't quite so useful yet, but will be later. Vreeb also adds Twisted Charge to make sure he can charge around obstacles and make sure he can activate Dreadful Wrath in the center of a group rather than the closest enemy.

Twisted Lord 2 adds Sneak Attack, and at 9th level Vreeb picks up Craven to help crank up his combat damage as well as Improved Feint from Twisted Lord 3. Along the way, he picks up Group Fake-Out and Timely Misdirection to enhance his feinting skills. Vreeb is now has a viable combat strategy regardless of whether he charges, full-attacks, or makes a standard attack. When he charges or makes a full attack, he can wield a large-sized greatsword (3d6 + 1d6 from Punishing Stance) with four arms along with six offhand attacks with light weapons, and any enemy within 20' has to check against Dreadful Wrath. If Vreeb is standing next to an opponent, he can Sudden Leap 10' away and charge in again, or full attack with the same greatsword + six shortswords/dagger. If Vreeb chooses a standard action instead, he can use his move action to move, activate his rod for a touch attack (scorching ray), or set up a sneak attack with Improved Feint (+4 from Twisted Form, +8 from Lamia Belt), followed by an Intimidating Strike or Claw at the Moon/Mountain Hammer as a standard action (+1d6 from Punishing Stance and +1d6/Craven from Sneak Attack). If the feint is successful, he can use Timely Misdirection to deny his opponent AoOs and use Group Fake-Out to feint against multiple opponents.

At 10th level, Vreeb picks up Peripheral Invisibility with a somewhat puzzling activation requirement: you can't use it against someone that has made a successful Spot check against you or attacked you in the previous round. This is a great ability to use on the first round of combat, because Vreeb can charge + pounce and get Sneak Attack on all his attacks. If combat has already started or he's engaged with an opponent, he could also use Peripheral Invisibility to charge + pounce over to a different opponent that hasn't attacked him yet. The baffling part is Vreeb if isn't actively hiding, then his opponents generally aren't making Spot checks to see him. If Vreeb wants to hide before activating Peripheral Invisibility, he has the skill ranks to do so (along with a +8 from his Lamia Belt). You may notice that I didn't put any skill points into Move Silently, as it doesn't matter if his opponents can hear him when he uses Peripheral Invisibility: even with a successful Listen check, Vreeb can attack them as an invisible opponent and enjoy Sneak Attack/Craven damage on every attack. If you would prefer a sneakier/quieter bug, consider moving the 12 skill points in Escape Artist over to Move Silently.



At 11th level, Vreeb gets another +1d6 Sneak Attack. At 12th level, he takes Improved Multiweapon Fighting and adds another level of Warblade to pick up the Fountain of Blood boost, which gives him a third method to incite fear in his opponents. If he drops an opponent, he can activate Fountain of Blood to cause all enemies within 30' to make a Will save vs. shaken for 1 minute. If his opponents are already shaken from Dreadful Wrath or Intimidating Strike, then they may wind up frightened, and he can incite them into full panic with a standard-action "Demoralize Opponent" check on the next round. At 13th level, demoralizing becomes a move action. This gives Vreeb the option to start his turn with an Intimidating Strike as a standard action and then follow it up with a demoralizing check to turn shaken into frightened. If he decides to charge or full attack, he can attack with a large-sized two-handed weapon and still get twelve offhand attacks with Improved MWF.

At 14th level, Vreeb gets Twist Target, the first class ability where he can influence the actions of a shaken opponent. Demoralizing an opponent with a move action should be easy enough, as he's got +17 (skill ranks) + 8 (Brass Mane) + 4 (Twisted Form) on his Intimidate checks. If the Twist Target succeeds, this most likely removes the opponent as a threat for a round, as they are left with just a move action to work with.



*** SWEET SPOT *** At 15th level, Multitasking comes online, and Vreeb steps into an entirely different world of #&$%ing around with people's heads. Since Vreeb has ten arms, he gets five "partial actions" along with a move action on his turn. And yes, partial actions only exist in the 3.0 rules, but the most common interpretation of how they work in 3.5 (using the "minor adjustment" clause from DMG p. 4) is they can be either a move action or standard action. This means every turn, there are at least six different things Vreeb can do:

Move Actions
Improved Feint (w/ Group Fake-Out, Timely Misdirection)
Demoralize Opponent (w/ Never Outnumbered)
Scorching Ray (Button #2 on Rod of the Tower)

Standard Actions
Intimidating Strike
Claw at the Moon
Mountain Hammer
Twist Target
Twist Perceptions (16th)
Twist Mind (17th)

Swift Actions
Sudden Leap
Fountain of Blood

At 16th level, he can start with a Demoralize as a move action, use Twist Perceptions to stun his opponent, and then finish off his turn with four standard action sneak attacks. At 17th level, he can use Twist Mind to take control of up to five adjacent opponents by spending five standard actions.

"But wait!" you say. "That isn't nearly twisted enough. The DM hasn't even thrown anything at my head. How can I make this even more bizarrely borked?"

Glad you asked, but first, there are some timing issues from Multitasking that we should clarify: "All such partial actions occur simultaneously." This makes it difficult to do things like... repeatedly pressing the button on the Rod of the Tower to blast an opponent with scorching ray six times. Or using a move action in between stunning/mind-twisting to affect multiple opponents that didn't have the common decency to stand adjacent to each other. Or using Twist Mind five times in a row against a particularly tough opponent because he's more likely to blow one of those Will saves (unlike the other two options, Twist Mind did not include a "no longer shaken" clause). We fix this by turning our standard actions to readied actions. There's nothing in the "Ready an Action" rules that says you're only limited to only one readied action per turn, so.... yeah, ok, the RAW is sketchy as all heck, but you're not reading Iron Chef entries to learn how to chew bubblegum. There may still be some timing issues, as the readied actions have to happen before your next turn starts and you have to specify what triggers them, but you can sequence them to happen one after the other by nesting the trigger conditions. "I ready an action, triggered after I move, to demoralize the bugbear. I ready an action, triggered after my demoralize check, to use Twist Mind. I ready an action, triggered after my Twist Mind, to use Claw at the Moon on the ogre." And so forth. This allows you to string six scorching rays into the same round, or five Twist Minds.

And that, you can proudly tell your friends, is why the dent in your head matches the exact dimensions of the sharp corners on the DMG.



You may be wondering, "Hey, this is a fear-based build... where is Imperious Command? Or if you really want to do some sneaking, what about Darkstalker?" And yes, those might be useful feats here. Craven isn't absolutely necessary at 9th, so maybe consider replacing it with one of those, or maybe Staggering Strike if you would prefer. (I was worried about the "cowering" from Imperious Command interfering with the shaken condition, so I left it out.) I also looked at putting in White Raven Defense/Clarion Commander for "Perpetual Flank", but decided it wasn't worth two feat slots. If your DM allows, flaws are a thing (just look at that Fort save! Yeesh.)

Speaking of saves... Vreeb's Will save is murderously low. You may want to consider swapping the Warblade stance/maneuvers around to take Moment of Perfect Mind. I decided against this, as Concentration is only a class skill for Warblades, but even putting 4 skill points into it would be better than the +3 he gets at 17th level! However, putting in Warblade was something of an afterthought, as I was mostly looking for another way to fit in another shaken effect, and Fountain of Blood was only one of two maneuvers that can cause shaken (Daunting Strike is the other one). Thug 3/Totemist 3/Barb 1 or Thug 4/Totemist 3 could work just as well for entry into Twisted Lord.

15 levels (with LA +3) is a long wait to get Multitasking, but I stuck to the prerequisites for Improved Multiweapon Fighting, which requires BAB +9. Ideally, Improved MWF should be interchangeable with Improved TWF, but unfortunately the feat wasn't updated properly to match the 3.5 prereqs for Improved TWF. If your DM allows you to use the 3.5 prereqs, bump Dex up to 17, take Improved MWF at 9th, and get Multitasking at 12th. Or delay taking Fighter 2 until BAB +6 to take Improved TWF/MWF early and get Multitasking at 9th.



Champions of Ruin: Craven
Cityscape: Skilled City-Dweller ACF (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a)
Dragon Compendium: Diopsid
Magic of Incarnum: Totemist
Player's Handbook II: Intimidating Strike
Player's Guide to Faerun: Dreadful Wrath
Savage Species: Insectile template, Improved Multiweapon Fighting, Multitasking
Tome of Battle: Warblade
Unearthed Arcana: Thug Fighter variant, Whirling Frenzy variant

[Heliomance]

And that's everything. Judging may commence immediately.

[Inevitability]

Interesting builds all around. This ought to be fun.

[The Blade Wolf]

... So I just double checked the rules of how to be a judge... and am I right in thinking that you don't have to deal with ruling disputes that come up if you're a judge?

[Venger]

... So I just double checked the rules of how to be a judge... and am I right in thinking that you don't have to deal with ruling disputes that come up if you're a judge?

You absolutely have to deal with disputes. That's the whole thing. What did you see that implied otherwise?

[The Blade Wolf]

You absolutely have to deal with disputes. That's the whole thing. What did you see that implied otherwise?

Absolutely nothing in the Opening Post, nor the FAQ says that judges have to deal with disputes... through now that I think about it, the disputes aren't just about rulings but the markings and rating, isn't it?

[Venger]

Absolutely nothing in the Opening Post, nor the FAQ says that judges have to deal with disputes... through now that I think about it, the disputes aren't just about rulings but the markings and rating, isn't it?

I strongly advise you read through any of the most recent prior contests to familiarize yourself with the judging process.

[Vaz]

You don't have to agree with the disputes or change your score, but really if you're putting yourself into the ring to judge, you should at least acknowledge the disputes. Because I can guarantee you're not omnipotent or omniscient, because noone is.

If someone has a concern over their judged entry they have the right to enter a dispute. If you cannot be bothered to even address something where you may have been mistaken, or that you cannot be bothered to reiterate the reason as to why you scored that and way and are unwilling to change it, why bother judging?

This is a social competition, for fun. Imagine having a chat with your gaming group/friends and asking them to rate builds you all develop out of 20. Someone turns around states 'you get a 12 (average, for this comp), because of W, X, Y and Z reasons'. Is that person who believes that reason Y is a poor one given not entitled to say 'hold up mate, you have misunderstood reason Y, it works because of Rule A, rule B and Rule C'?

Are you going to turn around just flat palm them, tell them to talk to the hand? No, are you ****, because that's rude. Because it's over the internet, and it takes 2 weeks, the competitors have a gentlemans agreement not to spam pointless questions, so you, as a judge uphold yours.

You don't have to judge, but if you do, people expect you to at least judge with the same courtesy that has been extended for theblast 86+ Competitions.

[Sian]

Guess it's good I never got around finishing mine ... it was quite similar to Two-faced Ivan

[Sian]

... So I just double checked the rules of how to be a judge... and am I right in thinking that you don't have to deal with ruling disputes that come up if you're a judge?

I would heartily suggest that you have at least an entry or two under your belt before judging, simply so you know the intricacies ...

[Amphetryon]

My idea was a Hengayoki Warshaper

[The Blade Wolf]

Honestly up until now I thought that disputes were completely about the mechanics of a build that a judge might have pointed out were in error, or mistakes about the mechanics that the judge themselves were wrong in. The fact that the disputes are in fact, in possible regard to everything a judge as said, from power to originality, from Elegance to UoSI, makes the situation significantly more understandable.

Through if I may follow this up with a different question: What do people believe is the harder task, to create a dish, or to judge the dishes?

[daremetoidareyo]

Honestly up until now I thought that disputes were completely about the mechanics of a build that a judge might have pointed out were in error, or mistakes about the mechanics that the judge themselves were wrong in. The fact that the disputes are in fact, in possible regard to everything a judge as said, from power to originality, from Elegance to UoSI, makes the situation significantly more understandable.

Through if I may follow this up with a different question: What do people believe is the harder task, to create a dish, or to judge the dishes?

Judging. When cooking a dish, it becomes your baby. When judging dishes, you are sometimes confronted by ugly babies, or a ton of babies, and in regards to disputes, acknowledgement seeking babies.

The benefits of judging is system mastery. But it takes work. Sometimes work that you don't want to do. When making your build, the number of sources doesn't matter. When judging a build, you sometimes don't want to crack open complete arcane again, especially if there are more than five dishes. Judge fatigue is real.

[Darrin]

Honestly up until now I thought that disputes were completely about the mechanics of a build that a judge might have pointed out were in error, or mistakes about the mechanics that the judge themselves were wrong in. The fact that the disputes are in fact, in possible regard to everything a judge as said, from power to originality, from Elegance to UoSI, makes the situation significantly more understandable.


Ideally, all disputes should be over mechanical issues. When it's over a difference of opinion... that's when the thread can balloon into 15 pages of unrepentant pedantry. But yes, you are correct, there is no ironclad rule that says a judge *must* respond to a dispute, or change a score. The precise manner in which such an issue like that would be resolved would most likely be messy. We've had issues in the past where a judge's rubric or methodology was at severe odds with the rest of the Iron Chef Community, but I'm not sure it'd be all that helpful to look back on those events.



Through if I may follow this up with a different question: What do people believe is the harder task, to create a dish, or to judge the dishes?

Getting an idea or gimmick that works is probably the hardest part. Judging is easier in that you don't have to stumble on that creative spark of imagination to build a dish around. You just have to examine what other people have come up with and determine a score.

I find that my biggest worry about judging is the time requirement. As a judge, you don't have any control over how many entries are submitted. This is a fairly small round, but Anointed Knight had *23* entries. Some judges volunteer at the start of the thread, but most of them volunteer after the builds are posted. If you're worried about the time involved, you can wait to judge until a round comes along with a small number of entries.

Two important things to keep in mind:

1) Regardless of the number of entries, the judge decides entirely on how much time they want to spend on each entry. You can spend hours/days bookdiving on each one, or "eyeball" it after a read-through.

2) The scoring methodology is almost entirely up to the judge. You can add or subtract increments of 0.25 up or down, or use whole numbers, run mock combats (*NOT* recommended), or throw darts at a dart board. At the end of the day, you have to come up with a number between 1 and 5, so in theory it's not nearly as complicated as some judges make it out to be. In practice... um... yeah.

I personally don't think you need to submit a dish before judging... with one caveat: being the *ONLY* judge is much harder, because you have nothing else to compare your numbers to, and if you mess something up, there aren't any other scores to average things out. Also, if there's any disputes, then it's inevitably going to involve you. So if we're looking at a "single judge" round, then I'd prefer that judge to have some experience, either as a chef or a judge. (On the other hand... if we're down to a single judge, odds are good that we're probably desperate for anyone to judge.)

I will say this about judging, though: you learn *MORE* about how to build a better dish by judging than you do by competing. When you understand how every gimmick works, it gives you a much bigger toolbox on future dishes because you have a lot more ideas to sift through.

[Korahir]

Honestly up until now I thought that disputes were completely about the mechanics of a build that a judge might have pointed out were in error, or mistakes about the mechanics that the judge themselves were wrong in. The fact that the disputes are in fact, in possible regard to everything a judge as said, from power to originality, from Elegance to UoSI, makes the situation significantly more understandable.

Through if I may follow this up with a different question: What do people believe is the harder task, to create a dish, or to judge the dishes?

Judging is harder because it requires a broader skill set if it is done properly. You need system mastery to understand all the things the contestant didn't write down (which is usually a lot) and you need social skills which includes mastering English to a degree to deliver judgement in a way that contestants can accept your evaluation. On top it is more time consuming than contesting (at least for me).
Entering the contest is relatively easy in comparison. My builds usually revolve around an idea for a character trait more than a mechanical idea but I prefer if i can fuse both aspects. You don't need to find the newest optimization method to place in these contests. Often it is more likely you place if you build a full character no matter if he/she/it is funny, tragic, horrifying or simply inconceivable. Some of the most praised builds didn't even win.

[WhamBamSam]

Kind of a shame I never got around to hammering out a build, but ah well. The tricks I was considering didn't show up in any of the builds, so I figure I might as well mention some of them now.

You can actually enter Twisted Lord a level early if you can get an unspecified bonus feat to use on Primary Contact at 5th level. Among the ways to do this are Human Paragon 2 (also good for getting Iaijutsu Focus as a class skill on a Cha focused SI with a few ways to render people flat-footed) and Marshal 1 (which also pumps up all the face skills the SI makes use of) when you already have Skill Focus (Diplomacy). I'm actually a little surprised no one went for either of these, especially given the corresponding need for membership in an organization.

I was rather enamored of Twist Target, and wanted to come up with ways of a) setting it up, and b) taking further advantage.

Setting it up meant going through my usual list of mundane repositioning methods (Bull Rushing and Setting Sun Throws being generally the most reliable).

For taking further advantage, I came up with the Defensive Rebuke maneuver and the Opportunist ability from Ninja of the Crescent Moon 6. Defensive Rebuke has the slight issue that you need to actually strike your opponent to make it work which is somewhat problematic when it takes a standard action to use Twist Target. Ninja of the Crescent Moon requires BAB +6, but it's possible to get to Twisted Lord 9/Ninja of the Crescent Moon 6 using the above Primary Contact trick, and making an enemy hit their ally to open up that ally to another attack by you is just funny.

I was also very keen on Cloistered Divine Magician Cleric 1 as a way of getting the Insightful Feint spell and Travel Devotion which would have opened up the swift action to feint or move so that the move action could be put toward demoralization or a full-round action of some sort.

Builds I considered...

Dvati Cloistered Divine Magician Cleric/Dungeon Crasher (Thug?) Fighter/Crusader/Twisted Lord. One twin uses Defensive Rebuke, then bull rushes an enemy of choice into an ally and hopefully a wall (which hopefully counts as 'striking' them). The other twin then uses Travel Devotion to move adjacent if necessary or casts Insightful Feint to allow the first twin to feint as a free action, demoralizes as a move action, then uses Twist Target to make the Defensive Rebuked enemy stab his friend. This then provokes an AoO from the first twin which might be against a flat-footed target if Insightful Feint was used. Has some multiclass penalty issues, and I feel I overuse Dvati.

Cloistered Divine Magician Cleric 1/Invisible Fist Decisive Strike Monk 2/Hit-and-Run Fighter 1/Marshal 1/Twisted Lord 9/Ninja of the Crescent Moon 6. Pretty straightforward Double Hit build with the exception of the Twist Target+Opportunist trick. Didn't really hammer out the stub, but would have likely been very feat-tight and probably couldn't have squeezed in all the tricks I wanted.

Human (Feat?) Rogue 1/Cloistered Divine Magician Cleric 2/Human Paragon 2/Twisted Lord 9/Ninja of the Crescent Moon 6. Probably less good at the overall schtick, but has a little more casting and Iaijutsu Focus, which the other can't get without a flaw.

[Rizban]

Huh. The half build I had was Beguiler 10/Twisted Lord 10 with a couple of small shenanigans. I knew i wasn't going to have time to finish it though, so I decided to judge. Still, I expected at least someone to have submitted a Beguiler what with the swift action feint and other useful abilities.

I'll get started on judging as soon as I get home this evening.


Human (Feat?) Rogue 1/Cloistered Divine Magician Cleric 2/Human Paragon 2/Twisted Lord 9/Ninja of the Crescent Moon 6. Probably less good at the overall schtick, but has a little more casting and Iaijutsu Focus, which the other can't get without a flaw.That actually sounds fun to play. Ninja of the Crescent Moon is also a fantastic class.

[DeTess]

I'm surprised no one did a build with scarlet corsair to try and take advantage of move action mass demoraliziations. This would have basically locked you into sneak attack acf fighter 5/ Scarlet corsair 5/twisted lord 10, but it might have been and interesting idea.

[Inevitability]

I'm surprised no one did a build with scarlet corsair to try and take advantage of move action mass demoraliziations. This would have basically locked you into sneak attack acf fighter 5/ Scarlet corsair 5/twisted lord 10, but it might have been and interesting idea.

I considered it, but as you say getting 5 Scarlet Corsair and 10 Twisted Lord levels proved too problematic. I eventually settled on a different, somewhat more unconventional, build that got me everything I wanted as well, so no harm done there.

[PanosIs]

My own idea was to go Rogue 1/Bard 5/Unseen Seer 2/Nightmare Spinner 2/Twisted Lord 10, with Practiced Spellcaster and Craven to scale to caster level and working with fear escalation, too bad I didn't get to post (exam term sucks). Some builds are interesting but to be honest, I am kind of disinspired with this S.I., it was kind of a weird one.

[The Viscount]

I'm very surprised we didn't see Avenging Executioner, though then again it was something I stayed away from for being "too obvious." Vizzini strikes again!

[Thurbane]

I just realized a huge error in my entry, and have requested it be withdrawn. :smallfrown:

I realized it when I woke up this morning, and was hoping we hadn't had the reveal.

[The Viscount]

Are you sure about that? It's possible to be rated well even if there's a hitch in the build, it's happened to me before in the Cipher Adept round.

[Thurbane]

Are you sure about that? It's possible to be rated well even if there's a hitch in the build, it's happened to me before in the Cipher Adept round.

No, I had only submitted a rough draft of my entry to the chair, to show I was working on it.

It was nowhere near finished - had it been just that, I might have let it stand. But the glaring error in the build clinches it for me. :smallfrown:

[Sian]

But yes, you are correct, there is no ironclad rule that says a judge *must* respond to a dispute, or change a score.

Eh, I recall a handful or such of judgings that have been binned because the Judge didn't respond to disputes pointing out clear mechanical misunderstandings (for an example detracting points for using some cheese not using it, in particular one that dinged for Dragonwrought, on a build that didn't use it)

[Darkcouch]

I was contemplating a dvati hexblade 4 / binder 3 / Twisted lord 10 / ?? 2 that made liberal use of demoralize and specialized in Twist Mind. Hexblade provides much needed survivability along with debuffs from his hex and dark companion and binding Fulcor gives additional debuffs. Both debuffs are only adjacent squares so they don't effect each other if they stay 5 feet apart. The twins set each other up for sneak attacks and twisted abilities and eventually are able to pretty reliably control 2 enemies each encounter to do the fighting for them.

I was having trouble coming up with anything relevant to use as my last 2 levels that didn't impose a multiclassing penalty, but I might have just ate the elegance penalty to grab some utility out of Dragon Shaman and Marshal.

This class was harder than I thought it would be to optimize because most feats and prestige classes I looked at including upstaged the Twisted Lord abilities. I know you can feint/intimidate as a move action, but lets make that irrelevant by taking a swift action feint/intimidate skill. So you can do cool stuff to enemies that are shaken, lets ramp the fear effects and make those skills inapplicable.

[Macabaret]

Well, it looks like I didn't make it in time. Oh, well.
I still wouldn't mind a bit of feedback from those willing.





Level
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Skills
Feats
Class Features


1st
Ranger 1
+1
+2
+2
+0

4 Bluff 4
4 Gather Information 4
1 K: dungeoneering 1
1 K: geography 1
4 K: local 4
4 K: religion 2
4 Listen 4
4 Sense Motive 4
4 Spot 4
4 Tumble 4

1st: Apprentice (criminal); B: Devil's Favor; B: Urban Tracking
; Rival Organization: Ebon Cabal +2; Voice of the City


2nd
Ranger 2
+2
+3
+3
+0

1 Bluff 5
1 Gather Information 5
- K: dungeoneering 1
- K: geography 1
1 K: local 5
- K: religion 2
1 Listen 5
- Sense Motive 4
1 Spot 5
1 Tumble 5
2 Skill Trick: Listen To This

--
Combat Style (melee)


3rd
Ranger 3
+3
+3
+3
+1

1 Bluff 6
1 Gather Information 6
- K: dungeoneering 1
- K: geography 1
- K: local 5
- K: religion 2
1 Listen 6
2 Open Lock 1
1 Search 1
1 Sense Motive 5
1 Spot 6
- Tumble 5
- Skill Trick: Listen To This

3rd: Law Devotion; B: Endurance
--


4th
Ranger 4
+4
+4
+4
+1

1 Bluff 7
1 Gather Information 7
- K: dungeoneering 1
- K: geography 1
- K: local 5
- K: religion 2
1 Listen 7
- Open Lock 1
2 Search 3
2 Sense Motive 7
1 Spot 7
- Tumble 5
- Skill Trick: Listen To This

B: Combat Expertise
Urban Companion


5th
Ranger 5
+5
+4
+4
+1

1 Bluff 8
1 Gather Information 8
- K: dungeoneering 1
- K: geography 1
- K: local 5
- K: religion 2
1 Listen 8
- Open Lock 1
1 Search 4
1 Sense Motive 8
1 Spot 8
- Tumble 5
- Skill Trick: Listen To This
2 Skill Trick: Timely Misdirection

--
Rival Organization: Ebon Cabal +4, Luminous Order +2


6th
Ranger 6
+6/1
+5
+5
+2

- Bluff 8
1 Gather Information 9
- K: dungeoneering 1
- K: geography 1
- K: local 5
- K: religion 2
1 Listen 9
- Open Lock 1
2 Search 6
1 Sense Motive 9
1 Spot 9
- Tumble 5
2 Skill Trick: Group Fake-out
- Skill Trick: Listen To This
- Skill Trick: Timely Misdirection

6th: Ancestral Relic
Improved Combat Style


7th
Shadowstriker 1
+7/2
+7
+5
+4

- Bluff 8
- Gather Information 9
2 Intimidate 2
- K: dungeoneering 1
- K: geography 1
- K: local 5
- K: religion 2
- Listen 9
- Open Lock 1
- Search 6
- Sense Motive 9
- Spot 9
- Tumble 5
2 Skill Trick: Collector of Stories
- Skill Trick: Group Fake-out
- Skill Trick: Listen To This
- Skill Trick: Timely Misdirection

--
Badge of Office; Luminous Weapon


8th
Uncanny Trickster 1
+7/2
+7
+7
+4

1 Bluff 9
- Gather Information 9
9 Intimidate 11
- K: dungeoneering 1
- K: geography 1
- K: local 5
- K: religion 2
- Listen 9
- Open Lock 1
- Search 6
- Sense Motive 9
- Spot 9
- Tumble 5
- Skill Trick: Collector of Stories
- Skill Trick: Group Fake-out
- Skill Trick: Listen To This
- Skill Trick: Timely Misdirection

--
Bonus Trick (Never Outnumbered); Favorite Trick (Group Fakeout)


9th
Uncanny Trickster 2
+8/3
+7
+8
+4

3 Bluff 12
3 Gather Information 12
1 Intimidate 12
- K: dungeoneering 1
- K: geography 1
- K: local 5
- K: religion 2
- Listen 9
- Open Lock 1
- Search 6
- Sense Motive 9
3 Spot 12
- Tumble 5
- Skill Trick: Collector of Stories
- Skill Trick: Group Fake-out
- Skill Trick: Listen To This
- Skill Trick: Timely Misdirection

9th: Devil's Aura
Bonus Trick: Clarity of Vision; Favorite Trick: Never Outnumbered; Smite Evil 1/day; Sun's Blessing


10th
Uncanny Trickster 3
+9/4
+8
+8
+5

1 Bluff 13
1 Gather Information 13
1 Intimidate 13
- K: dungeoneering 1
- K: geography 1
- K: local 5
- K: religion 2
- Listen 9
- Open Lock 1
- Search 6
- Sense Motive 9
1 Spot 13
- Tumble 5
6 Use Magical Device 6
- Skill Trick: Collector of Stories
- Skill Trick: Group Fake-out
- Skill Trick: Listen To This
- Skill Trick: Timely Misdirection

--
Bonus Trick: Spot the Weakpoint; Favorite Trick: Timely Misdirection; Surge of Piety


11th
Twisted Lord 1
+9/4
+8
+10
+5

1 Bluff 14
1 Gather Information 14
1 Intimidate 14
- K: dungeoneering 1
- K: geography 1
- K: local 5
- K: religion 2
- Listen 9
- Open Lock 1
- Search 6
- Sense Motive 9
1 Spot 14
- Tumble 5
6 Use Magical Device 12
- Skill Trick: Collector of Stories
- Skill Trick: Group Fake-out
- Skill Trick: Listen To This
- Skill Trick: Timely Misdirection

--
Twisted Form


12th
Twisted Lord 2
+10/5
+8
+11
+5

1 Bluff 15
1 Gather Information 15
1 Intimidate 15
- K: dungeoneering 1
- K: geography 1
- K: local 5
- K: religion 2
3 Listen 12
- Open Lock 1
- Search 6
- Sense Motive 9
1 Spot 15
- Tumble 5
3 Use Magical Device 15
- Skill Trick: Collector of Stories
- Skill Trick: Group Fake-out
- Skill Trick: Listen To This
- Skill Trick: Timely Misdirection

12th: Craven
Sneak Attack +1d6


13th
Twisted Lord 3
+11/6/1
+9
+11
+6

1 Bluff 16
1 Disable Device 1
1 Gather Information 16
1 Intimidate 16
- K: dungeoneering 1
- K: geography 1
- K: local 5
- K: religion 2
4 Listen 16
- Open Lock 1
- Search 6
- Sense Motive 9
1 Spot 16
- Tumble 5
1 Use Magical Device 16
- Skill Trick: Collector of Stories
- Skill Trick: Group Fake-out
- Skill Trick: Listen To This
- Skill Trick: Timely Misdirection

B: Improved Feint
--


14th
Twisted Lord 4
+12/7/2
+9
+12
+6

1 Bluff 17
- Disable Device 1
1 Gather Information 17
1 Intimidate 17
- K: dungeoneering 1
- K: geography 1
- K: local 5
- K: religion 2
1 Listen 17
- Open Lock 1
- Search 6
4 Sense Motive 13
1 Spot 17
- Tumble 5
1 Use Magical Device 17
- Skill Trick: Collector of Stories
- Skill Trick: Group Fake-out
- Skill Trick: Listen To This
- Skill Trick: Timely Misdirection

--
Peripheral Invisibility


15th
Twisted Lord 5
+12/7/2
+9
+12
+6

1 Bluff 18
- Disable Device 1
1 Gather Information 18
1 Intimidate 18
- K: dungeoneering 1
- K: geography 1
- K: local 5
- K: religion 2
1 Listen 18
- Open Lock 1
- Search 6
4 Sense Motive 17
1 Spot 18
- Tumble 5
1 Use Magical Device 18
- Skill Trick: Collector of Stories
- Skill Trick: Group Fake-out
- Skill Trick: Listen To This
- Skill Trick: Timely Misdirection

15th: Mindsight
Sneak Attack +2d6


16th
Twisted Lord 6
+13/8/3
+10
+13
+7

1 Bluff 19
1 Decipher Script 1
- Disable Device 1
1 Gather Information 19
1 Intimidate 19
- K: dungeoneering 1
- K: geography 1
- K: local 5
- K: religion 2
1 Listen 19
- Open Lock 1
- Search 6
2 Sense Motive 19
1 Sleight of Hand 1
1 Spot 19
- Tumble 5
1 Use Magical Device 19
- Skill Trick: Collector of Stories
- Skill Trick: Group Fake-out
- Skill Trick: Listen To This
- Skill Trick: Timely Misdirection

--
Improved Demoralize


17th
Twisted Lord 7
+14/9/4
+10
+13
+7

1 Bluff 20
- Decipher Script 1
- Disable Device 1
1 Gather Information 20
1 Intimidate 20
- K: dungeoneering 1
- K: geography 1
- K: local 5
- K: religion 2
1 Listen 20
- Open Lock 1
3 Search 9
1 Sense Motive 20
- Sleight of Hand 1
1 Spot 20
- Tumble 5
1 Use Magical Device 20
- Skill Trick: Collector of Stories
- Skill Trick: Group Fake-out
- Skill Trick: Listen To This
- Skill Trick: Timely Misdirection

--
Twist Target


18th
Twisted Lord 8
+15/10/5
+10
+14
+7

1 Bluff 21
- Decipher Script 1
- Disable Device 1
1 Gather Information 21
1 Intimidate 21
- K: dungeoneering 1
- K: geography 1
- K: local 5
- K: religion 2
1 Listen 21
- Open Lock 1
3 Search 12
1 Sense Motive 21
- Sleight of Hand 1
1 Spot 21
- Tumble 5
1 Use Magical Device 21
- Skill Trick: Collector of Stories
- Skill Trick: Group Fake-out
- Skill Trick: Listen To This
- Skill Trick: Timely Misdirection

18th: Devil's Tongue
Sneak Attack +3d6


19th
Twisted Lord 9
+15/10/5
+11
+14
+8

1 Bluff 22
- Decipher Script 1
- Disable Device 1
1 Gather Information 22
1 Intimidate 22
- K: dungeoneering 1
- K: geography 1
- K: local 5
- K: religion 2
1 Listen 22
- Open Lock 1
3 Search 15
1 Sense Motive 22
- Sleight of Hand 1
1 Spot 22
- Tumble 5
1 Use Magical Device 22
- Skill Trick: Collector of Stories
- Skill Trick: Group Fake-out
- Skill Trick: Listen To This
- Skill Trick: Timely Misdirection

--
Twist Perceptions


20th
Twisted Lord 10
+16/11/6/1
+11
+15
+8

1 Bluff 23
- Decipher Script 1
- Disable Device 1
1 Gather Information 23
1 Intimidate 23
- K: dungeoneering 1
- K: geography 1
- K: local 5
- K: religion 2
1 Listen 23
- Open Lock 1
3 Search 18
1 Sense Motive 23
- Sleight of Hand 1
1 Spot 23
- Tumble 5
1 Use Magical Device 23
- Skill Trick: Collector of Stories
- Skill Trick: Group Fake-out
- Skill Trick: Listen To This
- Skill Trick: Timely Misdirection

--
Twist Mind




The concept here would have been to be a lawful good member of the Luminous Order going undercover to infiltrate (and eventually expose and take down) the Ebon Cabal.
So, what better than a Hellbred? Good, but yet somehow tainted. Fully aware of what real terror is and willing to let you see it reflected in his eyes.
Some points of interest:

The Urban Class Features web article ('http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a') gives the ranger a Rival Organization instead of a Favored Enemy. It changes the skills for the granted bonus to a list which includes both Bluff and Intimidate.
Urban Class Features also allows a shift from an Animal Companion to an Urban Companion, which functions like a familiar but with more hit points. The raven can use the hellbred's skill ranks for intimidate (but as a tiny creature with a horrible Cha, it won't have a great chance to demoralize.) It can also take a crack at using UMD to use a wand of Manifest Nightmare (Heroes of Horror). It's the perfect spell for a Twisted Lord's familiar. A successful save (which is probably going to happen off of a wand) means the target is shaken for the round. And that save is repeated every round for the duration (which is based off of concentration). So, a little birdie uses the wand and continues to concentrate round after round. The foe is shaken. The Twisted Lord uses Twist Target or Twist Perceptions. The foe is no longer shaken. The foe has to make another save (and probably will) and thus goes back to being shaken. Rinse. Repeat.
At sixth level, about the time he's hitting an affiliation score of 5 in the Ebon Cabal, he gets an Ancestral Relic. Yup, that Cloak of the Ebon Cabal was his father's! Eventually, there will be room enough in the Cloak's price to add on a few uses per day of Schism ('http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/schism.htm'). Hellbred can use telepathy at 15th level, making the act of commanding someone (via Twist Target or Twist Perceptions or Twist Mind) a purely mental action. (Though, I will admit, that term is rather ill defined in game terms, but it seems likely to work in this manner at most tables.)
Shadowstriker 3 (gained via Uncanny Trickster 3) grants Surge of Piety, which offers a mechanic to make undead creatures count as shaken. I was imagining the Ebon Cabal as being run by a lich. How satisfying to use Surge of Piety followed up with Twist Mind and tell the lich to get his phylactery and destroy it?

[Darrin]

Sounds like a lot of good ideas that didn't quite get into a full entry.

Streblobial Magistration



Entry
Alignment/Race
Stub
Schtick
Judge: Rizban



Handsome Malcolm (link) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=22074585&postcount=75)
NE Silverbrow Human
SA Zhent Thug Fighter 9/Chameleon 1/Twisted Lord 10
Absorb Weapon Feintmancy
15.25




Vreeb Veebilbrixt (link) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=22074602&postcount=79)
NE Insectile Diopsid
Thug Fighter 2/Barbarian 1/Totemist 2/Warblade 1/Twisted Lord 5/Warblade +1/Twisted Lord +5
Armed and Multitasked
13.75



Two-Faced Ivan (link) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=22074590&postcount=77)
LE Desert Half-Orc
Thug Fighter 2/Paladin of Tyranny 3/Menacing Brute 5/Twisted Lord 10
Gazed and Confused
12.75



Gajsan (link) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=22074587&postcount=76)
CN Diabolus
Mountebank 6/Twisted Lord 10/Uncanny Trickster 3
Satanic Panic
8



Grim Maven (link) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=22074584&postcount=74)
TN/CN Whisper Gnome
Rogue 7/Swordsage 2/Twisted Lord 10/Swordsage +1
TWF Stabbiness
7.75




I only see one confirmed judge: Rizban. Any other hats in the ring?

[The Blade Wolf]

If Rizban follows through, I will likely through together a rough one myself.

[Rizban]

I've got the first three judged. Still working my way through the list though. I've ended up having a much busier week than I anticipated.

[Darrin]

Well. Still kinda quiet in this thread.

I noticed a flaw in the adventure. I'll SPOILER it for those of you who don't want to know the details of the plot:


The succubus should be the one in charge. Laurazhi is presented to the PCs as a "damsel in distress", and depending on the results of a Diplomacy check, she can either aid the PCs, betray them, or do both. Regardless of whether the PCs expose her true form, all she cares about is getting back to the Abyss. To open the gate, you need the Ark of the Resurgent Mountain, the sigil completed by the derro, and the Tome of Slaughtergarde. According to the adventure, she's nominally working for Gashkarr, but he's apparently trying to extort her to "earn her way back". But the puzzling thing is... Gashkarr's Will save is only +4. Laurazhi's charm monster SLA is at will and the DC is 22. So Laurazhi can charm him with an 85% success rate. In fact, she can charm darn near everything in the module with a pretty good success rate.

The derro have already finished the missing sigil. It's not clear if the gnolls know it's finished... it doesn't look like it, but all Gashkarr or Laurazhi would have to do is walk into the room and ask for it. The Ark is also ready to go... why hasn't it been moved into the gate room already? If Laurazhi asks them to move it and they refuse... well, she can step out of the room, change shape into Gashkarr, and order them to do it *NOW*! If that doesn't work, she can turn on the charm. The only thing she'd need after that would be the Tome of Slaughtergarde. And it's not like Gashkarr isn't already planning to open the gate... his efforts to threaten or extort something from Laurazhi would be short-lived. At best, he may get lucky and roll 18+ on his Will save, but since it's something she can do at will, he's still just a standard action away from being wrapped around her finger: "Hey, Gashkarr sweetums, let me borrow your booky-wook..."

So. Yeah. I don't think the designers understood the full implications of putting a succubus into the adventure.

[Zaq]

Man. I Vizzini'd myself right out of a Dread Necromancer entry. It qualifies easily since it gets the necessary skills, and that fear aura is a great way to impose shaken as a free action (leaving a move action for getting near the victim and a standard action for invoking Twist Whatever). But I thought that it was way too obvious, so I talked myself out of it.

I . . . might judge. I am uncomfortable committing just yet, but I think it would be fun if I can keep myself sufficiently organized.

[Inevitability]

Man. I Vizzini'd myself right out of a Dread Necromancer entry. It qualifies easily since it gets the necessary skills, and that fear aura is a great way to impose shaken as a free action (leaving a move action for getting near the victim and a standard action for invoking Twist Whatever). But I thought that it was way too obvious, so I talked myself out of it.

I . . . might judge. I am uncomfortable committing just yet, but I think it would be fun if I can keep myself sufficiently organized.

First, thanks for (maybe) judging.

Secondly, I must've said Dread Necromancer never crossed my mind. I did very briefly consider a build that would enter both Twisted Lord and Dark Scholar and would therefore have quite a bit of casting, but never considered using DN for the casting part.

[KrimsonNekros]

Damn wish I'd gotten my idea put together for this. I was looking at a Hexblade/Paladin of Tyranny build.

[Zaq]

First, thanks for (maybe) judging.

Secondly, I must've said Dread Necromancer never crossed my mind. I did very briefly consider a build that would enter both Twisted Lord and Dark Scholar and would therefore have quite a bit of casting, but never considered using DN for the casting part.

Don't thank me until I actually do it. With regards to the other parts of my life, I've accomplished less in the last few days than I had anticipated, so I might not have as much free time as I'd like over the next week or two.

Using Dark Scholar and Twisted Lord together would certainly be amusing, though I think I can see why you didn't go for it (they don't actually have any mechanical synergy to speak of). Did you get far enough to come up with a stub to share, or was it just a vague idea that didn't get far enough to turn into a skeleton?

[Inevitability]

Using Dark Scholar and Twisted Lord together would certainly be amusing, though I think I can see why you didn't go for it (they don't actually have any mechanical synergy to speak of). Did you get far enough to come up with a stub to share, or was it just a vague idea that didn't get far enough to turn into a skeleton?

Just a vague idea.

[Rizban]

I've just got one more to go through. I should have it done this evening when I get home.

[Rizban]

I'm going to start out my judging by listing the things I expect to see in the builds. At the time of writing this preface, I haven't looked at any of the builds, because they haven't yet been posted.

Originality – The most obvious entry here is Rogue with the most obvious secondary being SA/Thug Fighter. Rogue is a bit more expected, because it also boosts Affiliation score and has better skill points. I also expect to see a Beguiler and perhaps also a Hexblade focused on stacking debuffs.
I expect to see Imperious Command + Never Outnumbered, because it is both obvious and effective.
That said, I want see characters, not just builds. I want to see some fluff to the build and some internal logic for why the character goes the direction it does, most specifically why the character chose the path of the secret ingredient over something else.

Power – My baseline expectation for Power is Move Action Demoralize, Swift Action Feint, Standard Action Attack. With several different ways to achieve this and the class lending itself particularly well towards this tactic, I feel it makes a good metric for judging Power. If you can't do this or something else more effective than this routine, expect a ding. Anything added to this routine or more efficient will be given a higher score, and anything that's a focus of the build that is less efficient than this will be given lower. Simply having other options doesn't ding you unless you've invested heavily into doing something lesser.
Since this is my baseline expectation on Power, I will not be dinging points on Originality for aiming a build at this routine.

Elegance – I like even numbers and simplicity. The fewer sources and options you need to pull off your main shtick, the higher the Elegance score will typically be. I also like really convoluted, twisted, and strange ideas that hit you from out of nowhere designed to accomplish a particular esoteric goal. If you have a weird, bizarre solution to something that can't be easily achieved any other way, you'll also gain points in Elegance for your quirky optimization. Make it simple and sleek or make it beautiful in its complexity, and you gain points. Meandering through things without accomplishing anything meaningful or grabbing random tidbits to fill an empty slot without adding anything to the build will ding you.
I don't consider "table readiness" a factor in Elegance unless your build would outright destroy a campaign. If your build is an obvious fun killer, then it'll get a ding, otherwise it's based entirely on the skillfulness of the design.

Use of SI – I expect full levels in the Secret Ingredient. Each missed level will ding you for points. To earn full points, you must have every level of the SI and make use of all or most of the SI's features. The more central to your build concept, the better your score. If the SI isn't meaningful to your build or taking it actually hurts the build, then you'll lose points.
If you fail to qualify for the PrC before entering it, you'll get a ding.



Grim Maven (7.75)Originality (1.5)
You don't really have a character here. The build is nice enough, but there's no real characterization. (-1)

Rogue is the most obvious entry (-0.5)

Power (2.25)
You don't hit my Power baseline (-0.5), but you do make up for it in other ways, primarily using martial maneuvers to make extra attacks (+0.25)

You have meaningful Sneak Attack damage at +9d6 and can potentially make numerous attacks (+0.25).

You take Dodge+Titan Fighting, two feats to gain +4 dodge AC against a single Medium+ sized target. I don't understand the choice here. The benefit isn't really worth the two feats when you already have +5 or more from Dex, nor do you mention either feat anywhere in your build. (-0.5)

Two-Weapon Fighting is useful, since you're focused on using two weapons through various means, but I'm not sure what ITWF and GTWF will be adding to most encounters. Yes, it gives more attacks to utilize your SA damage, but you don't have a full attack build here. The vast majority of the time, you'll be using standard action attacks and maneuvers that gain no benefit from the other two feats. I don't see a reliable method of setting up full attacks if you aren't already in position. With the emphasis on Jump and Tiger Claw maneuvers, I was frankly surprised that you did not take Sudden Leap. (-0.25)

Elegance (2)
I don't see how you qualify for the PrC in the first place. You have no back story increasing your affiliation score, and I count a score of only 5 when you enter the class. (-1)

I had trouble checking your skills, as you made several mistakes throughout the table, usually with not actually increasing the skill ranks at levels that you clearly meant to. Your BAB is also misnumbered. (-0.25)

You use only two base classes and the SI, which is simple enough. (+0.25)

Use of Secret Ingredient (2)
You take all 10 levels of Twisted Lord. (0)

While you do mention using the abilities, the main one you mention using is Peripheral Invisibility, which just duplicates something you already have. You focus some on Twist Perceptions and Twist Mind, but with only a +1 Cha and nothing else in the build that supports them, that's a DC 21 vs a +15 or higher Will save, i.e. not useless but not reliable. (-1)

It seems that the only thing this build benefits from is the sneak attack progression, and there are better classes for doing that. You do, however, make use of some of the features, and taking Twisted Lord doesn't unduly hurt your build. While it does give you some options, none of them really seem better than what you already have. (0)

Handsome Malcolm (15.25)Originality (2.5)
SA/Thug Fighter is the obvious entry (-0.5)
You also take Imperious Command+Never Outnumbered, which was expected (-0.5)

Your build approaches from a direction I did not expect at all (+0.5)

Power (4.5)
You hit my baseline Power metric with your build, albeit with swift action demoralize rather than with a swift action feint. With magic, however, you manage to get a free action feint, leaving you with an open move action. Action economy is king. (+1)

You use the only method I know of to easily get a 24 hour demoralize on someone, as a swift action, and you can hit an entire group, making them all cower for 1 round then be shaken for a day, allowing for using your Twisted Lord abilities or for easier fear escalation later. That's about the best Intimidate can get. (+0.75)

And all of that only costs you nine levels of Fighter... (-0.25)

You have meaningful Sneak Attack damage at +8d6+20 and can make good use of it in combat by incapacitating foes. (+0.25).

Unfortunately, your Will save is rather low, and that extra -2 to fear from Craven means you're likely to be as afraid of them as they are of you. (-0.25)

Elegance (4)
You pick up two skill tricks at level 13, which is a rules violation, though you could have shuffled one of them to another level and been okay. (-0.5)

You use only one base class and the SI, which is simple enough, and the abilities work together almost seamlessly. (+1.5)

The one-level dip into Chameleon is a bit jarring to the simplicity of it, but you do it for very good reasons. (0)

Use of Secret Ingredient (4.25)
You take all 10 levels of Twisted Lord. (0)

You make good use of the bonuses from twisted form, sneak attack, and Improved Feint, but you gain little from improved demoralize. You're already doing it faster, but being able to demoralize with any action type you need is pretty good. (+1)

You keep your foes shaken for 24 hours at a time, so you're perfectly setup to use the three high level twists whenever you need them without extra actions needed to demoralize your target, and you have the Cha mod to make them usually stick (DC 26, before magic); however, I would have liked to have seen how you would use them rather than just saying that you can. (+0.5)

Peripheral Invisibility seems to be the only class feature you don't readily use. (-0.25)

Gajsan (8)Originality (3.25)
You take Imperious Command+Never Outnumbered, which was expected (-0.5)

Mountebank was completely unexpected. (+0.75)

Power (2)
You don't hit my Power baseline (-0.5)

The build doesn't really seem to have anything particularly good as far as power goes. It has low precision damage (5d6+20) and a minor debuff trick and not much else. When you factor in that half of your precision damage comes from having a mere +4 Will save vs fear at level 20 and no methods of overcoming that, you're pretty much not going to be able to even act against anything even remotely scary, which is supposed to be your shtick. (-1)

You have access to alter self shenanigans on an Outsider. You mention a few forms, but there's nothing really explaining how those forms really contribute to the build. Still, it's probably the strongest aspect of your build. (+0.5)

Elegance (1.75)
I'm pretty sure that Uncanny Trickster doesn't work like that. It effectively progresses the class features of a class you have by one level. It doesn't just add extra sneak attack dice. (-1)

Knowledge (local) isn't a class skill for Uncanny Trickster, so your skills are off on your final two levels. (-0.25)

Your build invested resources into several options that look like it was setting up to do a few different things, but then it never really followed through with anything I would expect to see, Assassin's Stance for example.

Use of Secret Ingredient (1)
You take all 10 levels of Twisted Lord. (0)

I'm really not sure what Twisted Lord adds to this build. Yes, it's also mostly Charisma based, but other than ability synergy, I don't see it. Beguiling Stare works with the deceptive attack and sneak attack, so that's fine. He has a "demoralize engine," but it doesn't stack with Beguiling, because Intimidate doesn't offer a save but an opposed level check. You mention twisted form helps, but you don't mention any of the higher twists at all, and admit that feinting is useless if they're under a beguiling effect. It really seems as though the two halves of your build work against each rather than for each other. (-2)

Two-Faced Ivan (12.75)Originality (2.5)
Thug Fighter is one of the expected entries (-0.5)
You take Imperious Command+Never Outnumbered, which was expected (-0.5)

Despite the Charisma focus, I did not expect to see any Paladins. (+0.5)

Power (3)
You manage to hit my Power baseline. (0)

Using the brow bind on Fearsome Mask, you get a non-action, automatic effect to impose the Shaken condition. (+0.5)
Unfortunately, the save DC on your gaze is a mere 13, meaning that it's going to happen fairly infrequently at level 12+ when you do get it working, and people can simply just not look at you to avoid it. (-0.25)

You spend a fair bit of time talking about sneak attacks, but you have very low damage at only 4d6. (-0.25)

Elegance (3.5)
You manage to complete two PrCs. I always like that. (+0.5)

Use of Secret Ingredient (3.75)
You take all 10 levels of Twisted Lord. (0)

You have multiple ways to inflict the shaken condition, so you can reliably use your higher level twists and a high enough save with them to make them worth using. (+0.5)

Improved demoralize combos well with some of your other features, and you've found a way to more reliably get use of peripheral invisibility. (+0.25)

You do make use of the sneak attack, the feinting, and twisted form, though nothing special. (0)

Vreeb Veebilbrixt (13.75)Originality (2.75)
Thug Fighter is one of the expected entries (-0.5)
Never Outnumbered (-0.25)

You have a good character entry that meshes well with the lore surrounding the SI. (+0.5)

Power (3.75)
Craven seems like a significant mistake to me. You have an effective Will save of +1 vs fear, which seems like a pretty significant drawback that's going to shut you down against pretty much anything. (-0.25)

You have multiple ways to demoralize an opponent, several as free actions or as part of other actions. This meets my Power baseline. (0)

Multitasking with 10 arms and lots of options. (+1)

Elegance (3)
You don't meet the regional prerequisite on Dreadful Wrath. (-0.25)

Lots of class dips, the insectile template on an insect, and an utterly alien and twisted build. Seems fitting. (+0.5)

Cheese, much cheese, though definitely not the most egregious use of it I've seen. (-0.25)

Use of Secret Ingredient (4.25)
You work the Ebon Cabal into your back story enough that you actually meet the affiliation prerequisite without a stretch, including use of the other affiliation rewards. (+0.5)

You have several abilities that make use of the feinting and demoralizing from twisted lord and have good bonuses on each. (+0.25)
You have good ability to use the Twists. Although the save is a little low to be reliable, you can potentially use them often enough to make them meaningful. (+0.25)
Twisted form works mechanically and thematically, which is nice. (+0.25)
Peripheral invisibility and the sneak attack seem almost an afterthought and don't really feature in the build much, although with the rest of the build, they're not useless. (0)

[The Viscount]

Thank you for judging, Rizban!

I really like explanation for your rubic.

[Heliomance]

Just one dispute this time, and given that you've had four days to PM me since the scores were posted, I think I'll assume there are no more and we can move on as soon as this one is addressed.


Two things I wanted to clear up:

1. The DC for Fearsome Mask is not high, but it is still relevant because the save is forced every round, and enemies within 10 feet are rolling at -2 from PoT. Also, looking away reduces to a 50% chance for a save, not full protection, and this gives me concealment, which is a helpful miss chance that I can use to Hide. To be completely protected they need to shut their eyes, which means total concealment.

2. It's true that I don't do as much sneak attack damage as some of the other entries, I talk about sneak attack a lot because in addition to bonus damage, it is a vehicle for terrifying strike. This is an effect that there is no save for, and it can be repeated every round, which is why I bring it up, as my goal in the build was to constantly be generating shaken targets.

Thank you for your time

[Rizban]

Two things I wanted to clear up:

1. The DC for Fearsome Mask is not high, but it is still relevant because the save is forced every round, and enemies within 10 feet are rolling at -2 from PoT. Also, looking away reduces to a 50% chance for a save, not full protection, and this gives me concealment, which is a helpful miss chance that I can use to Hide. To be completely protected they need to shut their eyes, which means total concealment.For 500gp, a Crystal of Bent Sight removes the concealment granted to you by them averting their eyes. Shadow mask and a few other 2nd-level and lower spells can also give significant bonuses against gaze attacks. It's not a bad ability at all, which is why it gave a boost to power. It just comes online a bit late (level 12) compared to when defenses against it can be reasonably acquired, and the DC is rather low, making it less reliable.

Let's look at the average Will save of creatures from the SRD at relevant levels.

CRAvg.Max
109.1114
1110.314
129.0815
1312.416
1414.018Since you gain this at level 12 and assuming an on CR monster, on average, the creature will need to roll a 3 or lower on its Will save to succumb to the gaze attack. That changes to a 5 or lower if it's within 10 feet. Assuming a CR 12 creature is averting it's eyes and within 10 feet, that's only a 12.5% chance that the gaze attack hits.

At CR 13, the very next level, the average Will save is 12. That means that, on average, any creature you face will fail only on a 1. That reduces you chance of having a successful gaze attack on any given creature that is averting its eyes to 2.5%, or 7.5% if within 10 feet.

At CR 14, the average creature will fail only on a 1, regardless of distance. This isn't what I'd really consider reliable.

Secondly, I question the interpretation that a creature averting its eyes grants you concealment for the purposes of hiding. Yes, you get concealment against the one creature averting its eyes, but you don't have the "generic" concealment that I think is necessary for using Hide. If your DM does rule that it applies, all it takes is one creature in the group to not avert its eyes to completely ruin your ability to hide. Considering your gaze attack only has a range of 30 feet, any creature looking at you from outside of that range is safe from your gaze and prevents you from using Hide.

On the other hand, it does give you concealment for the purposes of dealing sneak attack damage against any creature averting its gaze, so that's a benefit. The ability to more reliably deal SA damage without flanking or even using an action is partly why I rated this higher. (Edit: Actually, just having concealment doesn't grant SA. Not sure why I thought it did when responding to the dispute, other than to say I was distracted by my mother-in-law calling about the time I was writing this paragraph.) Also, from my reading of the abilities, I believe that does allow you to use peripheral invisibility against any creature averting its gaze from you, because you can use it "if no one's staring right at you." However, it goes on to further define this by saying, "you can't use peripheral invisibility if anyone succeeded on a Spot check against you or attacked you in the previous round." The RAW on this is a bit sketchy, but I'd allow it in games I run and thus gave you the benefit of the doubt. (Edit: Oh, I was conflating the two abilities, allowing for concealment to grant peripheral invisibility to grant sneak attack. So, yeah, I got that right, just explained incorrectly.)

Overall, I feel that the cumulative score on Power from this particular ability is accurate.


2. It's true that I don't do as much sneak attack damage as some of the other entries, I talk about sneak attack a lot because in addition to bonus damage, it is a vehicle for terrifying strike. This is an effect that there is no save for, and it can be repeated every round, which is why I bring it up, as my goal in the build was to constantly be generating shaken targets.

Thank you for your timeAs far as the Power score goes, I evaluated Sneak Attack within the realms of using SA. Your damage is pretty low, and while Terrifying Strike does render a target shaken, it's explicitly for only 1 round and does not escalate fear in any way whatsoever. It's neat but you invested just enough resources to have cost you something without investing enough to see a meaningful return.

However, I did go on to note in the Use of the Secret Ingredient section that you have multiple ways to inflict the Shaken condition. Your SA/Terrifying Strike ability was taken into consideration there and awarded a higher score. Also, having some resources invested into it kept you from losing points in that section due to simply ignoring that aspect of the SI.

Ultimately, I think this was a fair way to interpret this particular ability insofar as this character build goes and don't think the score should be adjusted unless there is a further dispute regarding something that I'm missing.

[Darrin]

I think that about wraps it up, unless Zaq and/or Blade Wolf possibly need some time to finish judging?

[The Blade Wolf]

I think that about wraps it up, unless Zaq and/or Blade Wolf possibly need some time to finish judging?

Sorry, I think I will have to pass on being able to judge this. A pretty nasty cold, followed by an injured wrist that significantly hampered my writing ability... on top of a desire to wait to see what Rizban had to say means I won't be able to complete the judgements in a satisfactory period of time.

[Inevitability]

Sorry, I think I will have to pass on being able to judge this. A pretty nasty cold, followed by an injured wrist that significantly hampered my writing ability... on top of a desire to wait to see what Rizban had to say means I won't be able to complete the judgements in a satisfactory period of time.

I commiserate with you regarding the wrist and cold.

[Thurbane]

If it's not too late, my HM goes to Gajsan.

I don't think I can remember seeing the Mountebank base class used before, and along with Diabolous, two things that appeal to me.

[The Viscount]

I'll second that.

[The Blade Wolf]

My HM goes to the multitasking Diospid, as I love that race. If they win a medal, I will as back Gajsan

[bean illus]

Ok. I was supposed to start a vacation 2 1/2 days ago. I have an embarrassing amount of work in this, and it's totally lame, and i think my other idea was better, but here goes. This is my first Iron Chef entry. I know it's late, and that it cannot qualify for the competition, but i have too much work in it to leave it in a drawer.
I won't be back for a month, but if someone could please 'judge' it. I'm not worried how score, just the experience of the critique. Given another week i would have been a lot more proud of it, but still, it was fun.

Jacques Elenton, Lord Elenton - The Skeleton King
Twisted Lord - Human - Lawful Neutral (any nongood)
8, 10, 12 - 16, 8, 18(+5 =23)
Sorcerer/Marshall /Dread Witch2 /Mindbender/ Nightmare Spinner2 /Twisted Lord10
Main Shtick: Auto Shaken and Panic While Unseen

Sources: PHB, PHBii, MH, HoH, CAr, CM, CS, SGoSG, DotU, Draconomicon
Prereq:
Dread Witch: Will +4, (arcana) 3 ranks, cast cause fear and scare
Mindbender: nongood, Bluff 4, Diplo 4, Intim 4, Sense Motive 4, cast charm person, Arcane CL 5
Nightmare Spinner: Bluff 4, Intim 4, Sense Motive 4, 3rd-level arcane spells; fear, illusion spell.
Twisted Lord: Bluff 9 ranks , Intimidate 5 ranks.

Jacques' adventures began with the kind of simple mischief that many boys would find quite believable. Born on the frontier, nothing but myth and legend existed in the vastness beyond the map. His small village was peopled mostly by half orcs, half elves, half humans, and half liars, with the later being nearly the majority.

Of those last, the Elentons were among the oldest families around. His grandfather told that his own great-grandfather had lived near here over 200 years ago. Jack loved his grandfather, who seemed quite young for the size of his brood. A dozen clans came to the annual festivities, and the participants numbered in hundreds.

He was still a boy the night he was caught eavesdropping. Jack had been listening to grandfather's lessons to his father for quite some time. This particular full moon though, he fell asleep, and was discovered napping when his father began his trip home. At first he was roundly scolded, and then questioned as to what he had understood. In the end, his own lessons began the next full moon.

Time passes and the winds of change shift, and one morning the country awoke to war. Jack led a squad for the Marshals that came to bring the kings peace, before switching sides politically and joining the vast majority of his families folk in withdrawal to the wilderness to conduct guerilla warfare against the crown. Before the peace was signed Jack learned a lot of ways to not get killed.

During the war, he made contacts whose wyrd remained woven with his for many years. The last summer of the war He and a fellow spellcaster fell in love with the same beauty She chose Jack, but when the relationship soured Jack and the fellow became fast friends. Filled with ambition the three followed rumors of fame and fortune wherever they led.

It didn't take long for the handsome and exotic young men to get noticed. The Ebon Cabal took particular interest in Jack's unique skillset and discreet demeanor. That winter they were invited to visit the Black Tower, and within the year Jack's knack for handling a situation without breaking things earned him a promotion. His new Cloak of the Cabal reinforced his decision and he eagerly volunteered for some very dangerous missions.

And then the day came that he was asked the question he knew would come eventually ... Will you join us in the hidden knowledge only we possess? Will you be a Twisted Lord of the Ebon Cabal? This short sword is nice!

Jack felt as ease in the Cabal's company, and their pragmatic approach to things. He also appreciated their formal habit of addressing him as Jacques. His social acumen and ability to apply leverage quickly made him the second favorite choice of many powerful people, which eventually led to him becoming first choice of almost everybody else.
Lord Elenton is magnetic, good looking, majestic, and respected by all. Few have ever seen him in his Twisted Form which he reserves for darkest moments and most morbid need (though he can barely resist the chance to prank strangers or tease unattended children).
During festivities Lord Elenton love to present himself decked out in resplendent armor, finely buffed ornaments, and glamorous embellishments.

In a world of crumbling alliances, life long feuds, and tumbling empires the middle road of Lord Jacques Elenton brought stability to the Ebon Cabal, amassing wealth of all kinds. Their influence grew, and the reputation of 'Jack Skeleton' was flung across the continents. "The Skeleton King" became a legend in his own time, and a fable for the ages.






Level
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Skills
Feats
Class Features


1st
Sorcerer
+0
+0
+0
+2
Bluff4 Conc4 Diplo1 Hide1 KnoArc3 SlHa4 SpCr1
Precocious Apprentice - Skill Focus (Intim(retrain?))
Metamagic Specialist, +1 casting


2nd
Marshal
+0
+2
+0
+2
Diplo+1(2) List+5
*Listen to This
Skill Focus (Diplo), motivate charisma


3rd
Dread Witch
+0
+2
+0
+6
Intim+2 SlHa+2x(5)
Practiced Spellcaster, *Conceal Spellcasting
Master of Terror, Unnatural Will


4th
Dread Witch2
+1
+2
+0
+7
Conc+1(5) Intim+5(7)
-
Absorb fear, +1 casting2


5th
Dread Witch3
+1
+3
+1
+9
Conc+3(8) Intim+1(8)
*Never Outnumbered
Fearful empower 1/day, +1 casting3


6th
Twisted Lord1
+1
+3
+3
+9
Bluff+2(6) Conc+1(9) Diplo+1(3) Hide+1(2) Intim+1(9) Sensmo+1 Spot+1 UMD+4

Spell Focus (Necro)
Twisted form


7th
Twisted Lord2 +2 +3 +4 +9
+2
+3
+4
+9
Bluff+2(8) Conc+1(10) Hide+1(3) Intim+1(10) Move+1 Sensmo+1(2) UMD+3(8)
*Group Fakeout
+1d6 sneak attack


8th
Dread Witch4
+3
+3
+4
+10
Bluff+2(10) Conc+1(11) Intim+1(11) SpCr+2(3)
-
Delay fear, greater master of terror, +1 casting4


9th
Dread Witch5
+3
+3
+4
+10
Conc+1(12) Intim+1(12) SpCr+2(5)
*Timely Misdirection, Imperious Command
Fearsome Empower 2/day, horrific aura, reflective fear, +1 casting5


10th
Twisted Lord3
+4
+4
+4
+11
Bluff+2(12) Diplo+2(5) Intim+1(13) Sensmo+2(4) UMD+5(13)

-
Improved Feint


11th
Mindbender1 +4 +6 +4 +13 Telepathy
+4
+6
+4
+13
Bluff+2(14) Conc+1(13) Intim+1(14)*Swift Concentration
*Swift Concentration
Telepathy, +1 casting6


12th
Nightmare Spinner
+4
+6
+4
+15
Bluff+1(15) Conc+2(15) Intim+1(15) Sensmo+4(8)
Silent Spell
Bonus spells, immunity to fear, inspire fear


13th
Nightmare Spinner2
+5
+6
+4
+16
Bluff+1(16) Conc+1(16) Intim+1(16) Sensmo+3(11)
*Social Recovery
Nightmare phantasm, +1 casting7


14th
Twisted Lord4 +6 +6 +5 +16
+6
+6
+5
+16
Bluff+1(17) Descr+2 Hide+1(4) Intim+1(17) Move+1(2) Sensmo+2(13) UMD+4(17)
-
Peripheral invisibility


15th
Twisted Lord5
+6
+6
+5
+16
Bluff+1(18) Descr+3(5) Hide+1(5) Intim+1(18) Move+1(3) Sensmo+2(15) Spot+2(3) UMD+1(18)
Frightful Presence
+2d6 sneak attack


16th
Twisted Lord6
+7
+7
+6
+17
Hide+1(6) Intim+1(19) Move+3(6) Sensmo+1(16) Spot+6(9)
-
Improved demoralize


17th
Twisted Lord7
+8
+7
+6
+17
Hide+3(9) Intim+1(20) Move+3(9) Spot+3(12)
*Spot the Weak Point
Twist target


18th
Twisted Lord8
+9
+7
+7
+17
Hide+3(12) Intim+1(21) Move+3(12) Spot+3(15)
*Clarity of Vision, Skill Focus (UMD)
+3d6 sneak attack


19th
Twisted Lord9
+9
+8
+7
+18
Hide+4(16) Intim+1(22) Move+4(16) Spot+3(18)
-
Twist perceptions


20th
Twisted Lord10
+10
+8
+8
+18
Bluff(18) Conc(16) Hide+2(18) Intim+1(23) Move+4(20) Sensmo(16) Spot+3(21) UMD(18) Decipher script(5) Diplo(5) Listen(5) SliHand(5) Spellcraft(5)
-
Twist mind





Spells per Day


Level
0lvl
1st
2nd
3rd


1st
5
4
(1)
-


2nd
6
5+1
(1)
-


3rd
6
6+1
(1)
-


4th
6
7+1
5+1
-


5th
6
7+1
6+1
-


6th
6
7+1
8+1
4+1


7th
6
7+1
8+1
5+1

[/tr]


Spells Known


Level
0lvl
1st
2nd
3rd


1st
4
2
-
-


2nd
5
2
-
-


3rd
5
3
-
-


4th
6
3
1
-


5th
6
4
2
-


6th
7
4
2
1


7th
7
5
3
2

[/tr]


Mage Armor, Cause Fear, True Strike(3), Charm Person(5), Silent Image(7)
Scare(1), Invisibility(5), Minor Image(7)
Invisibility Sphere(6), Nondetection(7)



My premise is that Rogue 5/Twisted Lord 10 is ECL 15, and that the level of PO should consider this the proper power baseline for the campaign. I enter TW early as possible for two levels while the module is still valid, and use TW intemittently to shore up skills.
Liberal use of Skill Tricks allows several ways per encounter to get/stay close to a Target/touch, or support the secondary focus of Cha Face with the max Bluff, Intim, high Sense Motive and decent Diplo, all supported by 2xCha.

The build is crap for BAB, but has a lot of touch attack and several invisibilities and other sneaks, debuffs, and niches. In the end his BAB is same as a Sorc20. Damage is unacceptably low, but his character just needs a custom magic item generating cabal to work with, and has one.

Levels 1-5 are nice enough. SAD Cha makes Jack a natural face at low level, and he actually gets his first 2nd level spell early, as well as enters Dread Witch early. Mage Armor, True Strike, Cause Fear, and high Con support the staple of illusions and fear spells. Master of Terror and Practiced Spellcaster Work to early advantage. Unnatural Will and Fearsome Empower anticipate the fear campaign that the SI suggest, while Absorb Fear is a spell/day generator if the guess is true.
Never Outnumbered early at 5th with Intim(19) prebuff. Throw an escalation and clear the room, with most cowering.

Level 6-10 Twist Form works uberboost the demoralize, with Focus Necro coming on line. The build still looks for ways to not melee, but with the Cabal's help his unique skillset is used correctly. UMD becomes available with cheap items? AND LOANER ITEMS? A CUSTOM ITEM LIBRARY? !! Let's max UMD fo sho.
Finish DW for Horrific Aura: All peons with a brain are politely dismissed from the room for the rest of the campaign, AND (even better) a touch att that panics any HD even those immune to fear cha/day. Let's keep 'em flat footed ... oh! Improved Feint!
This is a pretty sweet spot for this build, and a lot of campaigns and teams could find a use for him.

Level 11-15, Mindbender works well. Low prereqs and Telepathy to advance casting, and barely squeezes Nightmare Spinner in. Jack gets tired of other folks bluffing him, and begins to boost Sense Motive. Spellcraft and Decipher script boost a max UMD. NS delivers bigly with one extra illus spell for each level, immunity to fear (for when i'm in the presence of greatness), and another way to cause fear. Though many types of fear become less effective as we go, it's nice fluff to look at someone from 30' away and scare them.
NS2 ALSO gives the tasty Nightmare Phantasm, making every glammer of figment Jack cast trigger a will save at disbelief (and the build focuses less on concentration from now on in response. It's not truly powerful, but very thematic. Fueled by the Cantrip Ghost Sound Cha/day, anyone who has a Will save is shaken. Boom.
This synergizes (i believe) with most SI features. Hide/Periph/invis/illusion/shaken/touch/panic/cower all before the surpise round and hopefully without the opponent even knowing how that happened. Btw, Peripheral invis is kinda cool. All day long invis as a (Su); if you don't stare at him forever he will disappear. Fun character, several tricks that he's better at than anybody.

Level 16-20, TW6 comes on a bit late, but oh well. Improved Feint and Improved Demoralize are fully on line and can be spammed all day. The build now has about 100 ways to not be in melee, and in fact even doing damage sans UMD, but that's about to change.
The targets come pre-shaken now thanks to NS2/Frightful Presence/Fearful Empowerment, and that's what we like. Twist Target turns the enemies damage against it's allies, Twist Perceptions stuns them indefinitely, and Twist Mind just gives you absolute control of anyone who fails DC32 will save (Did i mention that i now RUN a custom magic item library?).


Obviously this build only works if the DM wants it to. It's not a stand alone build, but a crew member in a mid power campaign. Nevertheless, it seems to fill a few niches well. It's an Ebon Cabal build. With a UMD of 37 for scrolls, even 9th level spells automatic. It's certainly a UMD build, but the SI calls for that.
I stopped most of the Cha skills at 18+12, but of course can easily buff that higher. I set Move Silent above Hide because i have invisibility. Sense Motive is lower, but few folks have a bluff that will dog my 16, AND want to kill me, And is immune to fear, And can keep me from touching them. Intimidate is maxed at 23+12+3, which should shake anybody that doesn't have maxed/doubled saves and has a brain. Illusions for the brainless. Diplo comes in at 5+3+12=20, even gather info is at 12 unbuffed without a rank.

After the details are ironed out with the dm, it might go something like this:
Hide, move silently, peripheral invisibility (possibly backed up by invis/etc), spot, silent spell ghost sound/illusion triggers nightmare phantasm, delay fear, inspire fear, end delay (is an attack?), trigger frightful presence ... everybody drops everything they have and runs without having ever seen me.

OR ..Get them shaken without being seen with nightmare phantasm, and go straight to the Twisted line (would twist target/mind leave me invis?), possibly triggering frightful presence.

When forced to melee, use improved feint, and horrific touch.

Actually this is possibly the sweetest spot. The ability to make most flee in panic without revealing oneself is cool, and so is fear touch on anything that has a will, but the ability to just take over the dm's characters seems nearly plot breaking (Will save 32 unbuffed)

[Darrin]

I won't be back for a month, but if someone could please 'judge' it.


Once the final scores are posted, I'll be happy to score your build. However, I'm not sure how that would compare to Rizban's scores.

Speaking of final scores...

[Heliomance]

And scores! Thanks for the table, Darrin.



Entry
Chef
Alignment/Race
Stub
Schtick
Judge: Rizban



Handsome Malcolm (link) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=22074585&postcount=75)
Inevitability
NE Silverbrow Human
SA Zhent Thug Fighter 9/Chameleon 1/Twisted Lord 10
Absorb Weapon Feintmancy
15.25




Vreeb Veebilbrixt (link) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=22074602&postcount=79)
Darrin
NE Insectile Diopsid
Thug Fighter 2/Barbarian 1/Totemist 2/Warblade 1/Twisted Lord 5/Warblade +1/Twisted Lord +5
Armed and Multitasked
13.75



Two-Faced Ivan (link) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=22074590&postcount=77)
The Viscount
LE Desert Half-Orc
Thug Fighter 2/Paladin of Tyranny 3/Menacing Brute 5/Twisted Lord 10
Gazed and Confused
12.75



Gajsan (link) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=22074587&postcount=76)
Korahir
CN Diabolus
Mountebank 6/Twisted Lord 10/Uncanny Trickster 3
Satanic Panic
8



Grim Maven (link) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=22074584&postcount=74)
Randuir
TN/CN Whisper Gnome
Rogue 7/Swordsage 2/Twisted Lord 10/Swordsage +1
TWF Stabbiness
7.75



Congratulations to Inevitability, Darrin, and The Viscount for their places on the podium! And by my count Honourable Mention goes to Gajsan, so congratulations Korahir!

[danielxcutter]

Congratulations to all contestants!

[Thurbane]

Well done everyone.

Very disappointed in myself that I dragged my heels on getting my entry in.

Next time the SI appeals to me, I'm going to try harder to beat the deadline.

[The Blade Wolf]

Congrats to the contestants!

Can't wait to see what Prc we are dealing with next!

Is there any rules when it comes to suggestions for the PrC btw? Official or not.

[The Viscount]

Good round, everyone. Glad to see we went in different directions, and nobody took the easy route with Avenging Executioner.

As for suggestions for PrCs, there's no real rules for it, other than no repeats of ingredients we've already done. The PrC should be 10 levels long, though we've done a special 5 level one in the past, so we might do that again or do 2 5 level prcs for bonus fun. In general it should be something mediocre to poor, though every once in a while we have a fairly good ingredient like Twisted Lord. This will of course be followed by a poor ingredient, like Shadowsmith for this round. It helps if it's something distinctive or weird as well as or in place of just being bad. The list of previous rounds in the OP should give you an idea.

[The Blade Wolf]

So... more generic Prestige Classes like the Iaijutsu Master, the Kensai, the Warshaper and... every single full-caster PrC are not really options for the Special Ingredient?

... Have to admit, I would like to see the former two used (especially Iaijutsu Master, very curious to see who might actually get used out of it past level 5), but those classes are a bit too powerful from the sounds of it. Though I really hope that one day, we'll see the Psychic Weapon Master (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040827d). It has the potential to be really, really good. BUT the fact it has SIX feats as a prerequisite and the fact half of its abilities have are bland and limited at best means that it's not exactly easy to use to its full potential.

[Darrin]

So... more generic Prestige Classes like the Iaijutsu Master, the Kensai, the Warshaper and... every single full-caster PrC are not really options for the Special Ingredient?


It's not so much whether it's "generic" but the class features are underpowered, underwhelming, or just poorly thought out. The idea is to take a PrC that is mostly garbage and see if you can make anything decent out of it. PrCs that have 1-2 good levels (popular for dipping) but really lousy levels after that can also make good ingredients.

Iaijatsu Master might work as an ingredient... but that's got a huge neon sign flashing "One Trick Pony" on top of it. I don't think we could get a good variety of builds out of that one.

Kensai might be a good ingredient, as few people take it out to all 10 levels. Lots of weird things you can do there. That would be an interesting round.

Warshaper is unlikely because it's only 5 levels long... and the shorter PrCs generally don't work for IC because they tend to get overwhelmed by all the other non-SI levels. However, a "Warshaper + Nature's Warrior" round might work. There are a few oddballs out there... 7 or 8 levels long, there's one that's 13, and I think a 15.

We do occasionally get a full caster PrC. Winterhaunt of Iborighu was the last one. The danger there is once you've got 9th level spells in the build, there are way too many "I Win" buttons that can overwhelm anything the SI can do.

You also want to avoid a PrC that only has one entry method. I wasn't involved in the round, but I still hear people complaining about Initiate of Pistis Sophia...

[The Blade Wolf]

It's not so much whether it's "generic" but the class features are underpowered, underwhelming, or just poorly thought out. The idea is to take a PrC that is mostly garbage and see if you can make anything decent out of it. PrCs that have 1-2 good levels (popular for dipping) but really lousy levels after that can also make good ingredients.

Hmm... alright that does help explain things pretty well, thank you, Darr


Iaijatsu Master might work as an ingredient... but that's got a huge neon sign flashing "One Trick Pony" on top of it. I don't think we could get a good variety of builds out of that one.

Honestly, that would kinda be the fun. Iaijutsu is a very... odd mechanic, and personally, I would love to see how people chose to use it! Though again, that might just be me and the builds me be far too similar for it to be any actual good.


Kensai might be a good ingredient, as few people take it out to all 10 levels. Lots of weird things you can do there. That would be an interesting round.

Yeaaaah... Kensai's a fairly weird class. A popular class from what I have seen, and the flavour is very well enjoyed, but the mechanics are... odd. But potentially very powerful, Power Surge especially.


Warshaper is unlikely because it's only 5 levels long... and the shorter PrCs generally don't work for IC because they tend to get overwhelmed by all the other non-SI levels. However, a "Warshaper + Nature's Warrior" round might work. There are a few oddballs out there... 7 or 8 levels long, there's one that's 13, and I think a 15.

I think I've seen a few of the odd level ones before... isn't Moonspeaker like, 12 levels itself?


We do occasionally get a full caster PrC. Winterhaunt of Iborighu was the last one. The danger there is once you've got 9th level spells in the build, there are way too many "I Win" buttons that can overwhelm anything the SI can do.

Yeeeeeeeah, I don't see full caster Prc's appearing that often in all honestly...


You also want to avoid a PrC that only has one entry method. I wasn't involved in the round, but I still hear people complaining about Initiate of Pistis Sophia...

... How many PrC' only have one actual method of entry? I haven't heard of a PrC being THAT hard to get into before!

And what did you think of the Psychic Weapon Master suggestion anyhow?

[The Viscount]

A certain number of PrCs have if not 1 method of entry, than a very specific list of requirements that makes entry any other means difficult.

Initiate of Pistis Sophia's requirements are remembered because sanctify ki strike requires ki strike lawful, which monks get at level 10 (or monk and ninja with ascetic stalker). Because it's a 10 level PrC, you would need a feat at 10, and the only conceivable way to do that is Vow of Poverty. There is one other way to get in, and that's Shim Shoo Monk, which grants ki strike early. So there's really only 3 means of entry, only 2 of which make sense. We saw both in entering the PrC.

There are not that many PrCs that can only be entered 1 way, but there are a decent number that make it very clear how they want you to enter. For example, Shintao Monk requires the still mind class feature, so you must enter by Archivist or Monk.

The more ways there are to enter, the better an ingredient generally is for the competition, because that encourages variety. True Necromancer, for example is unlikely to become an ingredient because you'll spend all your time qualifying, then 14 levels of drek. Ravager is easy to enter but gives you next to nothing.

Ronin is a class with a clear expected entry, but it's not too difficult to enter, so might be worthwhile. Hexer is full casting and pretty limited in terms of entry (I count 4 or so ways in) so is unlikely to see use.

The legend in terms of entry is Magelord, you have to pretty much do what the Man wants if you want to make it in on time.

Psionic Weapon Master is a bit difficult to enter, but I could see it being used.

[Rizban]

Psionic Weapon Master has Psychic Warrior 7 as the expected entry. It's certainly not the only method, but it gives you exactly the prerequisites for the class with absolutely no variability. It would be very easy to end up with multiple identical builds. There are multiple other entry methods though, so I'm in favor of it just to see what people can figure out.