Wizard And Sorceror Questions

[Bartmanhomer]

Hey everybody. I got a few questions about the Wizard And Sorceror.

1. Why does the wizard and sorcerer class have the lowest hit dice?

2. Why does the wizard and sorcerer class alwa have a failure chance using spells while they wear armor?

[prototype00]

Because their spells are powerful and they learn them the quickest out of any class in the game, is the usual answer.

But what are you looking for? The way to bypass this weakness?

[Bartmanhomer]

Because their spells are powerful and they learn them the quickest out of any class in the game, is the usual answer.

But what are you looking for? The way to bypass this weakness?

I just need to find a way to bypass this weakness. Wizards and Sorcerer are an easy target and get killed quickly with low HP and AC.

[prototype00]

Use equipment with 0 spell failure chance, Twilight enchanted mithral chain is usually the answer (but you aren't proficient)

Hit Die, wasn't there a feat that let you use Int instead of Con for the first hit die? Fey Initiate or something, and you could devote like half your spells to not dying, which while not an optimisers dream is usually how it shakes out in game.

[Calthropstu]

When I play wizards or sorcerers they never get hit. I am often the last man standing.
Wizards and sorcerers are not supposed to be in melee. Nor should they be out in the open. Later levels, they shouldn't even be visible.
This can be accomplished with summons... placing monsters between you and attackers, charms making your enemies your friends, dropping enemies at range with blast effects, creating undead, binding creatures to your service to defend you or just standing behind the party using them as meat shields.
My pfs 12th level sorc has an ac of 8 and is very tough to kill.

[Bartmanhomer]

When I play wizards or sorcerers they never get hit. I am often the last man standing.
Wizards and sorcerers are not supposed to be in melee. Nor should they be out in the open. Later levels, they shouldn't even be visible.
This can be accomplished with summons... placing monsters between you and attackers, charms making your enemies your friends, dropping enemies at range with blast effects, creating undead, binding creatures to your service to defend you or just standing behind the party using them as meat shields.
My pfs 12th level sorc has an ac of 8 and is very tough to kill.

How is that possible? :confused:

[John Longarrow]

Easy answer, don't start as wizard/sorcerer. Start with one level in crusader.

More difficult answer, what are you doing that gets your wizard/sorcerer killed quick? If its AC, shield and mage armor do wonders to help, then alter self when you get 2nd level spells. Plus what Calthropstu said.

If your spell caster is in melee you've already done something wrong unless that was your intent. If your spell caster is leading from the front, don't do that. If you caster is in the middle of the party, using battle field control or ranged attacks, then what else is happening that is getting your characters killed?

[Deophaun]

I just need to find a way to bypass this weakness. Wizards and Sorcerer are an easy target and get killed quickly with low HP and AC.
Wearing armor is irrelevant; the highest AC characters are naked.

[John Longarrow]

Wearing armor is irrelevant; the highest AC characters are naked.

Hence why dragons get concerned facing them... :smallcool:

[Arbane]

Hey everybody. I got a few questions about the Wizard And Sorceror.

1. Why does the wizard and sorcerer class have the lowest hit dice?

2. Why does the wizard and sorcerer class alwa have a failure chance using spells while they wear armor?

"Because Gygax". (And spell failure chance is new - in older editions, 'Magic-Users' flat-out could not wear armor.)
Wizards got their start as artillery - literally. So they needed infantry to keep enemies from killing them while they cleared up the battlefield with bombardments.

As people have said, if your wizard's in melee, you have done something wrong. If the DM is having enemies run past the melee types to gank you, try ditching the pointy hat and robes for less-conspicuous clothes.

[John Longarrow]

Elvish 1st level wizard with a long sword and bow works pretty well. Use your spells for defense and pretend your an almost competent fighter. Stick to range, keep pegging with arrows (bonus to dex off sets lower BAB) and have mage armor up in case they get close. Your AC should be about the same or better than the party tank and you can continue contributing to the fight. Just don't get stuck in the mind set of "I have to cast something every round". That will run you out of spell quick and get you killed.

[Baby Gary]

How is that possible? :confused:

your a wizard, anything is possible, like being a literal god!

[Elkad]

This just feels like a troll. But just in case it isn't...

Hide in the back at low levels. Be glad in these later editions you get 3*L0 + 1-4*L1 spells/day instead of 1*L1. And x-bow proficiency instead of just throwing daggers.

By L5 your AC should rival the tin cans up front unless you are surprised. +2 dex, +4 mage armor, +8 alter self, +1 ring, maybe a couple other points. Plus non-AC defenses like Mirror Image, Blur, Cloudy Conjuration, Abrupt Jaunt, Blockade, Levitate, Fly, SpiderClimb, Invisibility, Benign Transposition, etc. Some of which you can get on wands fairly cheaply and carry for emergencies.

[flappeercraft]

Yeah, a Wizard/Sorcerer if made well is basically untouchable, baator, I was able to get 120+ AC with a Wizard in addition to miss chances, immunity to damage, infinite free duplicates through Ice Assassin as an SLA, etc. Albeit with a lot of cheese it still is possible for high level casters to do that kind of thing and even in the lower levels a caster should be able to have high AC, I have an ECL 5 pseudo-gish that wears no armor and is an LA +1 race and has 44 AC when buffed. That is with 32 PB and standard WBL

[Calthropstu]

How is that possible? :confused:

Like I said, meat shields. No matter what you get your ac to, you're gonna get hit if yougo into melee range with a wizard/sorc. I focus on surviving the few hits I take, and getting myself out of trouble. DDoor, teleport will get me out of danger if needed, throw monsters out between me and enemies, block avenues of attack, get invisible... even creatures with true sight only see 120 feet. Get beyond that with a ddoor fire a bunch of long range attacks... wash rinse repeat. The trick is to avoid being attacked at all rather than try to pump your ac.

[Afgncaap5]

There's also the Battle Sorcerer ACF, trades that d4 away for a d8. I prefer regular sorcerer for a martial character, though, as spell knowledge is spell power with most of my characters.

Also: a bit unconventional, but you could always hire a personal bodyguard. Underlings aren't always feasible at level 1, but I imagine you could persuade a few people for a week's sojourn into a dungeon on the cheap without too much hassle.

[Gruftzwerg]

Hey everybody. I got a few questions about the Wizard And Sorceror.

1. Why does the wizard and sorcerer class have the lowest hit dice?

2. Why does the wizard and sorcerer class alwa have a failure chance using spells while they wear armor?

1. Because these two classes sole rely on spells for everything. That includes surviving. If you can't survive with your spells, you picked the wrong one or wasn't creative enough to come up with a good build/combat plan.

2. Because in D&D somehow arcane spells need weird gestures (maybe because they need attention dunno^^) which are hard to accomplish while wearing heavy armor. In the meanwhile the cleric is just holding his (un-)holy symbol and is either singing/praying or yelling at somebody, while hiding in a full plate armor..

[Andezzar]

I just need to find a way to bypass this weakness. Wizards and Sorcerer are an easy target and get killed quickly with low HP and AC.AC and HP are the fighters' way of avoiding death. Wizards don't need much of either.

Think like a wizard, not like a fighter. Melee is much more powerful than ranged combat. So stay out of melee.
Wizards have only one class feature: spells, so use it:

If you really need to wreck someone's face, let your summons do it. If someone wants to wreck your face, let the summons take the damage (i.e. place them between yourself and the enemy)
Blind enemies cant attack you well, so blind (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/glitterdust.htm) them
Enemies lying on the floor (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/grease.htm) can't get to you.
Being in different place (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/displacement.htm) than your enemies think you are makes you harder to hit.
If you really need AC look at Alter Self, polymorph and (greater) Luminous Armor

Just a few suggestions on how to survive as a wizard/sorcerer

[Necroticplague]

There's a very simple way to deal with ASF

Armor restricts the complicated gestures that a wizards or sorcerer must make while casting any spell that has a somatic component (most do). The armor and shield descriptions list the arcane spell failure chance for different armors and shields.
Don't use a somatic component, don't deal with ASF. Similarly, it means that any Stilled spells are ASF free.

As for the HD: most undead templates change all your HD to d12s, so that may be of use (necropolitan has no cost in the long run). Alternatively, since full-casters don't really need most stats to do anything (they need a 19 in their casting stat to get level 9 spells, and that's it), they can afford to put points into CON, a +3 hp/level modifier covers a multitude of sins.

[Calthropstu]

There's a very simple way to deal with ASF

Don't use a somatic component, don't deal with ASF. Similarly, it means that any Stilled spells are ASF free.

As for the HD: most undead templates change all your HD to d12s, so that may be of use (necropolitan has no cost in the long run). Alternatively, since full-casters don't really need most stats to do anything (they need a 19 in their casting stat to get level 9 spells, and that's it), they can afford to put points into CON, a +3 hp/level modifier covers a multitude of sins.

Indeed it does. my pfs sorcerer is 8str, 8 dex 16 con base with a +4 belt. He has more hp than some of our melee fighters.