What is my paladin's alignment

[Creyzi4j]

Basically my half orc paladin serves a good alihned god. He is always doomsaying on the townsquare and engages in forced conversion towards thugs we catch while travelling.
He also uses the command spell to force other PCs and NPCs to grovel before his holy symbol.

He does not however engAge in torture or kill people for his god.

I'm having trouble thinking what his alignment is

[ShadowSandbag]

Forced Conversion, torture and magically compelling people to worship your god all seem pretty evil to me. Id say neutral on the Chaotic/Lawful axis.

[Coretex]

I've recently codified my idea for determining alignment as:

Good people get joy and fulfilment from bringing joy to others.
Neutral people get joy and fulfilment from bringing joy to themselves.
Evil people get joy and fulfilment from bringing pain to others.


Lawful people believe there is inherent good in order and structure and seek to abide by and enforce it.
Chaotic people don't care for anything BUT the Good/Neutral/Evil part of the Alignment chart.


"Where does your character get their joy from?"
"What would stop your character from doing something that fulfils them"


Your character sounds Lawful Neutral or True Neutral from what you have described, but actions do not always speak for motivations.
Is he torturing people on the orders of his Good God? Lawful. Is he torturing people because he enjoys it? Evil
The groveling bit seems like him enjoying exerting control over others: Evil.

Even so, if his desire is to bring good to the world and he wants to obey his god he could very well fit into Lawful Good and is currently extremely misguided as to his means.

[Tanarii]

He does hoaever engAge in torture or kill people for his god.
Why would a good aligned God grant this guy his Paladin powers? Did you mean "doesn't" instead of "does"?

[Malifice]

Basically my half orc paladin serves a good alihned god. He is always doomsaying on the townsquare and engages in forced conversion towards thugs we catch while travelling.
He also uses the command spell to force other PCs and NPCs to grovel before his holy symbol.

He does hoaever engAge in torture or kill people for his god.

I'm having trouble thinking what his alignment is

Torture, murder, forced conversions, tyranny?

Hes throuroughly Evil.

[djreynolds]

How about?

If you were my lawyer..... could you get me out of this one?

You are self admitted..... lawful evil

No good church allows for torture, no good society allows for torture

Committing a crime to stop a crime, may be necessary. But a sentient being, that's us, know that it is wrong and we would be burdened with guilt and looking for absolution

A lawful evil person feels it is perfectly fine to perform torture, forced conversions, and murder with impunity

I can see a lawful neutral person performing these acts and saying to themselves... "I had to do it", but they weren't looking forward to it.

Does your player look forward to performing these tasks? Yes.. lawful evil. No... lawful neutral

[Ninja_Prawn]

Sounds like Lawful Evil to me. I expect the priests and clerics of his God consider him to be a dangerous heretic.

[Creyzi4j]

Why would a good aligned God grant this guy his Paladin powers? Did you mean "doesn't" instead of "does"?

No..he doesn't involve in torture...that was a typo on my part. Sorry

[djreynolds]

Forced conversion... isn't a nice act

[Ninja_Prawn]

No..he doesn't involve in torture...that was a typo on my part. Sorry

Typo? Or Freudian slip? :smalltongue:

If this guy avoids torture and murder, the situation is definitely less clear-cut. Forced conversion and forced grovelling still isn't nice, but it might be acceptable within the bounds of Lawful Neutral, depending on the circumstances & setting.

[Creyzi4j]

He also wears a towelhead

[Herobizkit]

Lawful Neutral is the 'Judge Dredd' / perfect soldier alignment. Your God's Law is THE Law, above and beyond what others would believe or how others might act.

Incidentally, which God/dess does your half-orc follow?

[NecessaryWeevil]

He also wears a towelhead

I think you mean a keffiyeh.

If I were in your party I'd be pretty pissed off about the groveling.

[KorvinStarmast]

He also uses the command spell to force other PCs and NPCs to grovel before his holy symbol. Does not get along well with others. Do the other party members mess with one another, or just this comedian?

I'd put the character's alignment as Lawful Annoying, at best.

[Creyzi4j]

My god isn't from normal dnd. He pays homemage to Zakarum from the Diablo franchise. The DM made him up

The command spell was part of the role play.
Other players declared that their characters would kill my character if they had the chance.

Unfortunately they needed my help as of the moment. So not happening. We will be playing again this saturday. Don't know what will happen tho. I did receive some inspiration pts for pleasing my god

[Dr.Samurai]

How are the conversions forced onto the thugs?

[KorvinStarmast]

My god isn't from normal dnd. He pays homemage to Zakarum from the Diablo franchise. I am very familiar with the Paladins of Zakarum. (Heh, my current Crusader in DIII is more or less a Hammerdin. Waiting for just the right magical item to drop to switch to blessed shield).


The command spell was part of the role play.
OK, so the characters mess with one another plenty. Got it.

Other players declared that their characters would kill my character if they had the chance. How many versus you, at the moment?

Unfortunately they needed my help as of the moment. So not happening. We will be playing again this saturday. Don't know what will happen tho. I did receive some inspiration pts for pleasing my god
Why do you care about alignment? If what you are doing is pleasing your god, then apparently you are doing it right.

[Sigreid]

Doesn't matter. If he's forcing the party to grovel before his holy symbol, you'll be re-rolling soon enough.

[KorvinStarmast]

Doesn't matter. If he's forcing the party to grovel before his holy symbol, you'll be re-rolling soon enough.

IIRC, command only works on one creature at a time.
Duration: 1 round

You speak a one-word command to a creature you can see within range. The target must succeed on a Wisdom saving throw or follow the command on its next turn.
It's a first level spell with limited application, but when effective it is very effective.

[Gtdead]

We can all agree on lawful. I think you are a garden variety zealot but you wouldn't cause harm on anyone that isn't an enemy. LG.

[Sigreid]

IIRC, command only works on one creature at a time.
Duration: 1 round

It's a first level spell with limited application, but when effective it is very effective.

Just responding to OP post. 9 of 10 of my character's would murder hin.

[GPS]

Just responding to OP post. 9 of 10 of my character's would murder hin.
10 out of 10 of my characters would murder him. What kind of character regularly uses charm spells on party members? This character has a whole lot of red flags. If I were that DM, I would definitely reject the character concept. Alignment, probably LN.

[Belltent]

Basically my half orc paladin serves a good alihned god. He is always doomsaying on the townsquare and engages in forced conversion towards thugs we catch while travelling.
He also uses the command spell to force other PCs and NPCs to grovel before his holy symbol.

He does not however engAge in torture or kill people for his god.

I'm having trouble thinking what his alignment is

Alignments will always be more narrow than the characterization with which you play. Why try to put a round peg in a square hole? Sounds like you got this dude's methodology figured out.

That being said, he doesn't sound like a good guy. Forced conversions and grovelling is pretty evil.

Edit:
He also wears a towelhead

How does one wear a towelhead? Even excusing the slur it makes no sense. He would wear a towel.

[GPS]

Alignments will always be more narrow than the characterization with which you play. Why try to put a round peg in a square hole? Sounds like you got this dude's methodology figured out.

That being said, he doesn't sound like a good guy. Forced conversions and grovelling is pretty evil.
Eh, while I think those are both huge **** moves my table probably wouldn't tolerate, two problems with them being evil.
1. The forced conversions are on evil people, so he's kinda got a loophole there, and he's not forcing conversions through torture if that first post is to be believed.
2. Regularly charming party members to force them to grovel isn't really an evil action, it's just extremely poor form and (rightfully so) won't be tolerated at most tables.



Edit:

How does one wear a towelhead? Even exclusing the slur it makes no sense. He would wear a towel.
Yeah, this is what set my red flag alert off. I'm starting to think this character concept isn't just an homage to a Diablo character like we're being made to believe. Might be a little something more.

[Belltent]

Eh, while I think those are both huge **** moves my table probably wouldn't tolerate, two problems with them being evil.
1. The forced conversions are on evil people, so he's kinda got a loophole there, and he's not forcing conversions through torture if that first post is to be believed.
2. Regularly charming party members to force them to grovel isn't really an evil action, it's just extremely poor form and won't be tolerated at most tables.

I agree. It's a dicey call. I just figured it felt more ****ish than not ****ish so I erred on the side of evil. Certainly not good.

[Waterdeep Merch]

For reference, I played a cleric last year that once used command to cause a party member to lose his bowels in the middle of a market. Said party member was a thief that had abandoned us in the woods the session before, and this was his punishment for doing so.

I considered him LN.

[Corran]

Just responding to OP post. 9 of 10 of my character's would murder hin.


10 out of 10 of my characters would murder him. What kind of character regularly uses charm spells on party members? This character has a whole lot of red flags. If I were that DM, I would definitely reject the character concept. Alignment, probably LN.

3 out of 10 of my characters would murder him.
6 out of 10 of my characters would tempt/pay or generally wait for someone else to do it.
1 out of 10 of my characters would become this guy's minion.

Verdict on alignment: Lawful annoying...

ps: A troll thread is a troll thread...

[DragonSorcererX]

True Neutral... because it swings both ways in both axis...

[Creyzi4j]

The grovelling part was to one guy who wouldn't bow down before the holy symbol.
He accompanied me during my doomsaying days. My character was kind of annoyed by the fact that he wouldn't considering bowing down before my god despite us being very long time allies. I had to surprise him since I knew he had a counterspell on the ready.

I don't think it would work now considering he now prepares a counterspell everyday.