Different Healing

[The Ship's dog]

So when I finally played a Cleric, I realised how much healing is underpowered in 5e compared to what I was used to from 4e. It is so weird that, unless someone is actively dying, it is better to do anything else rather than heal someone using our action. So I have resolved to change it.

Now I know this is a big thing (as there are lots of things that heal), so the underlying idea is that I want to port in the Healing Surge system from 4e into 5e, but keep the Hit Dice mechanic.

So this is the change that I have worked out.
Variant Healing: At your DM's discretion, when dice is rolled as part of an ability that allows the target to regain Hit Points, you may use this variant rule instead of rolling dice.

When healing, take the average value of all dice used added together (rounded down), and divide that number by 4. This end value (rounded down) is the number of Hit Dice that the target may spend (no action). If a Hit Dice is spent in this way, the target regains a number of Hit Points equal to the maximum value of the Hit Dice spent added together. If the number of Hit Dice is less than 1, then the target may spend no Hit Dice, but regain Hit Points equal to one half of the value of one of their Hit Dice.

Racial features:
-
Class features:
Defy Death, Indestructible Life (Undying Warlock)
Rallying Cry (Purple Dragon Knight Fighter)
Song of Rest (Bard)
Supreme Healing (Life Domain Cleric)
Second Wind (Fighter)
Turn the Tide (Oath of the Crown Paladin)
The result of an 83-84 on the Wild Magic Surge table (Wild Magic Sorcerer)
Items:
Potion of Healing
Healer's kit (+Healer feat)
Feats:
Durable
Healer
Level 1:
Cure Wounds, Healing Word
Level 2:
Prayer of Healing
Level 3:
Mass Healing Word, Vampiric Touch
Level 5:
Mass Cure Wounds
Level 7:
Regenerate


Class features:
Lay on Hands (Paladin)
Grim Harvest (Necromancer Wizard)


So there are a few things that I need to change, such as the Life Domain Cleric's Supreme Healing ability, and a few things that I just want to change, such as the Paladin's Lay on Hands. I was thinking that the Supreme Healing feature would be changed to "Whenever you use the Variant Healing rule to heal a target, you may have them spend a bonus number of Hit Dice equal to your Wisdom Modifier". I want to change the Lay on Hands feature and the Grim Harvest feature so that it works using Hit Dice as well, but I'm not sure how. The 4e Lay on Hands had the Paladin expend a 4e equivalent of Hit Dice to heal someone else, so perhaps something like that.

P.S. If I have missed anything that heals using dice or affects healing using dice then please tell me. I have gone over the SCAG, PHB, EEPC and VGTM. I am not counting anything from the UA or third party supplements. Only officially released and play-ready stuff please.

[Jerrykhor]

I think healing is fine in 5e. The problem is not that healing numbers is too low, it is because going down to 0 hp and failing death saves has no drawbacks.

Basically, a PC can go down, fail 2 death saves, get healed for 1 hit point (a cheap and easy way would be to feed him a Goodberry) and get up fighting at full power again, with all the failed death saves cleared. And it will waste the enemy another round of Action just to put him down again. And then the party can repeat this for as long as they want, making the fight scene very goofy, because one guy is constantly yo-yo between unconscious and fighting like normal.

Your suggestion is too complicated, requiring doing too much calculation. We don't play d&d to do more math. One way to fix this is: Add a level of Exhaustion every time the PC go down to 0 hp. If you think its too brutal, only add a level of Exhaustion for each failed death save.

[Findulidas]

Basically, a PC can go down, fail 2 death saves, get healed for 1 hit point (a cheap and easy way would be to feed him a Goodberry) and get up fighting at full power again, with all the failed death saves cleared.

We dont clear death saves in our games just like that. For us it takes a long rest to clear them. That way you are really very likely to die if you get unconscious more then once. To be fair in 5e its really very difficult to die compared to older versions of DnD anyway.

[Contrast]

This does seem a little more complicated than I'd hope (one question - would someone add their casting stat to the average before dividing by 4?).

It seems like this would discourage people from spending HD to heal during short rests to ensure that they had them available to be maxed by spells (and consequently discourage short resting generally which would be problematic for warlocks and the like).

Maybe consider tweaking how the short rest machanic works overall if this is something you're looking at.

[Jerrykhor]

We dont clear death saves in our games just like that. For us it takes a long rest to clear them. That way you are really very likely to die if you get unconscious more then once. To be fair in 5e its really very difficult to die compared to older versions of DnD anyway.

Then you are using a houserule, or not playing it correctly. But yeah, this suggestion is not bad too.

[Lombra]

Yep, the fact that dropping to 0HP has such little impact on the characters makes healing in the midst of the fight not very efficient, that's why I like yo implement the mutilation rules in the DMG, paired with the system shock ones makes the players approach the fights in a less heroic and more conservative way up to mid levels.

[Unoriginal]

...Did dropping to 0 HP had an impact, in 3.X or 4e?

I honestly don't remember anything about that.

[Lombra]

...Did dropping to 0 HP had an impact, in 3.X or 4e?

I honestly don't remember anything about that.

In 3.5 it was more dangerous because you would outright die at -10 HP, so keeping the HPs up were more important.

[DivisibleByZero]

In 3.5 it was more dangerous because you would outright die at -10 HP, so keeping the HPs up were more important.

In our game, we keep the -10=DEAD rule from 3.5
We also don't ask for death saves at all until someone attempts to stabilize you. However many rounds have passed since you went down, you roll all of those death saves together. This means that no none knows how close to death you are, or even if you're already dead or not, until someone actually tries to help. I hope you roll well, because if it takes them a long time to get to you, you may be rolling 5 death saves all at once only to find out that you were dead before they even go to you! This makes it so that players don't metagame "well he's succeeded two death saves already, he'll be fine," and makes them actively try to help fallen comrades.
Players almost always try to get someone up before round 3, because if he or she rolls poorly, that's all it takes for a dead PC. So not only does it prevent metagaming, it also creates a sense of urgency. And that makes it more realistic and more dramatic, just like a friend taking a sword to the gut and going down certainly should.

[dejarnjc]

In our game, we keep the -10=DEAD rule from 3.5


I don't 100% remember the -10 rule (rarely came up) so maybe I'm mis-remembering but wouldn't this make higher level DnD (levels 11+) even more deadly than it already is?

My assumption being that under this rule, if you're at 20 HP and you get hit for 31 points of damage then you instantly die.

[DivisibleByZero]

My assumption being that under this rule, if you're at 20 HP and you get hit for 31 points of damage then you instantly die.

Yep. That's how it works.

[Findulidas]

Then you are using a houserule, or not playing it correctly. But yeah, this suggestion is not bad too.

Its simple. It also fits with the general theme of getting back most of the things you have after a long rest.

[Pex]

The healing spells in 5E, especially Healing Word, are mainly to help prevent a PC from dropping in combat. They don't heal enough nor do you have the spell slots to use healing spells to get someone back to full. Healing is mainly done through rests, shorts dice to spend HD and long rest to full heal. When you need healing and can't short rest that is where healing potions and the Healer feat come into play.

The Healer feat is significant despite it being once per person per short rest. It heals more than a spell and doesn't use a spell slot. You are effectively a walking healing potion for everyone. Anyone can take the feat, not just the cleric or any spellcaster. A fighter can do it. What I'm not certain about is if more than one party member has the feat can a person benefit from the feat for each such player or is it once total per short rest for benefiting from the Healer feat. If the former, the party gets that much better healing and can save their HD for emergency rests.

[DivisibleByZero]

What I'm not certain about is if more than one party member has the feat can a person benefit from the feat for each such player or is it once total per short rest for benefiting from the Healer feat. If the former, the party gets that much better healing and can save their HD for emergency rests.

By strict rules, it's the latter.

[Demonslayer666]

In our game, we keep the -10=DEAD rule from 3.5
We also don't ask for death saves at all until someone attempts to stabilize you. However many rounds have passed since you went down, you roll all of those death saves together. This means that no none knows how close to death you are, or even if you're already dead or not, until someone actually tries to help. I hope you roll well, because if it takes them a long time to get to you, you may be rolling 5 death saves all at once only to find out that you were dead before they even go to you! This makes it so that players don't metagame "well he's succeeded two death saves already, he'll be fine," and makes them actively try to help fallen comrades.
Players almost always try to get someone up before round 3, because if he or she rolls poorly, that's all it takes for a dead PC. So not only does it prevent metagaming, it also creates a sense of urgency. And that makes it more realistic and more dramatic, just like a friend taking a sword to the gut and going down certainly should.

I like this! We just had that happen last session in the game I am running. The fighter dropped early and made two successful death saves and no one bothered to check on him after that (they were unable to before that).

Instead of making a save, I will have them track the number of rounds/saves, and will wait until someone checks on them and knows their condition, and then have the saves rolled.

[Waterdeep Merch]

I don't really mind combat staying deadly by limiting healing. I love to scare my players by dropping a hard fight on them after they're already nearly out of resources and sorely needing a long rest. A player of mine once wore a healing potion beer hat.

If I wanted to up their ability to nova heal but keep their daily healing about the same, I'd just let them spend a hit dice any time they heal hit points from any source (minimum of 5 hit points needed to stop lay on hands/goodberry abuse). This way they still have the same general amount of healing every day, but can get more oomph when they need it.

I'll have to think about it. I like watching my players panic.

[DivisibleByZero]

I like this! We just had that happen last session in the game I am running. The fighter dropped early and made two successful death saves and no one bothered to check on him after that (they were unable to before that).

Instead of making a save, I will have them track the number of rounds/saves, and will wait until someone checks on them and knows their condition, and then have the saves rolled.

Precisely.
Your friend is lying on the ground, potentially bleeding out, and because of the way that death saves work you might not even care because you already know that in all likelihood the guy that's lying on the ground bleeding out is going to be fine.
That is no longer true at our table. You better get to him quick, or he might be too far gone before you even know what happened.

And that player? Before he was laughing and drinking without a care in the world, because he already made two death saves.
Now he's biting his nails and pleading with other players to come and save him!
Completely different experience!

[Citan]

In our game, we keep the -10=DEAD rule from 3.5
We also don't ask for death saves at all until someone attempts to stabilize you. However many rounds have passed since you went down, you roll all of those death saves together. This means that no none knows how close to death you are, or even if you're already dead or not, until someone actually tries to help. I hope you roll well, because if it takes them a long time to get to you, you may be rolling 5 death saves all at once only to find out that you were dead before they even go to you! This makes it so that players don't metagame "well he's succeeded two death saves already, he'll be fine," and makes them actively try to help fallen comrades.
Players almost always try to get someone up before round 3, because if he or she rolls poorly, that's all it takes for a dead PC. So not only does it prevent metagaming, it also creates a sense of urgency. And that makes it more realistic and more dramatic, just like a friend taking a sword to the gut and going down certainly should.
Hi!

Thanks for sharing this idea, this is a very nice one!
I'm a bit wary of the -10 fixed amount though, because 5e is reputed as being much harsher (it's easy already to drop inconscious). However, I agree that the RAW is too generous too (especially after a few levels when you start having a good maximum HP), although to be fair hits at 0hp are automatic failures.

Also, I understand that your houserule apply whether you were unconscious already or not, and I feel that it would be a bit strange that a level 20 character would have the same "brutal hit resistance" as a level 1. So I'd rather suggest the amount be set as "either 2*CON mod or character level, whichever is higher". This means you start being more resilient around mid-levels, which seems fair imo to represent the fact you went up and beyond most adventurers who don't survive the first half of the progression.
(Even with my suggestion I feel it's a bit too harsh but I'll ask my players if they are willing to try).

[Tetrasodium]

Not all healing spells & abilities use an action. Healing word, second wind, moon druid combar wildshape's healing, is a bonus action. warlocks & others can get an ability that heals/+tempHPs them when they do certain things like killing something

[Mellack]

Precisely.
Your friend is lying on the ground, potentially bleeding out, and because of the way that death saves work you might not even care because you already know that in all likelihood the guy that's lying on the ground bleeding out is going to be fine.
That is no longer true at our table. You better get to him quick, or he might be too far gone before you even know what happened.

And that player? Before he was laughing and drinking without a care in the world, because he already made two death saves.
Now he's biting his nails and pleading with other players to come and save him!
Completely different experience!

Realize that this is also screwing the player of the chance of rolling a 20 and rejoining the fight on their own. Basic rules say if you get a 20 on a death save, that you regain 1 hp. That would put them conscious and able to act. By waiting until they get help, that option is wasted.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

The way we did it was to add levels of Exhaustion after every time you drop. So the first time, you have disadvantage on ability checks. Next time, you have half move. It goes on until the sixth time, which flat out doesn't work, he be dead. This makes it much more punishing to do the yo-yo thing.

[Sigreid]

Not to crimp your efforts, but it was always better, at least up through 3.5, to focus on making things deader faster than to heal in combat. Healing in combat is, for the most part, playing for a draw and hoping your ability to do that out lasts theirs.

[Pex]

Not to crimp your efforts, but it was always better, at least up through 3.5, to focus on making things deader faster than to heal in combat. Healing in combat is, for the most part, playing for a draw and hoping your ability to do that out lasts theirs.

If a party member drops you lose his actions of contributions. Always the case. You never want a party member to drop. Pre-3E it was hard because you could never prepare enough Cure Light Wounds. 3E helped by giving spontaneous healing, so you can heal when you need it and if you don't all the better. It also shared the healing around so the cleric wasn't the only one to do it. 4E allowed some characters to heal themselves. Pathfinder allowed for healing more than one PC at once at range. 5E lessed the amount of healing but everyone can heal themselves out of combat. In combat healing is possible and still be able to do something else.

Fortunately the players I play with don't have to be taught their lesson by changing the rules. No one lets others drop if they can help it, and if someone does drop someone else tries to get them back up or at least stabilized and not rely on death saves which are a last resort. It's called teamwork.

[stonegategames]

Echoing what others have said: 5e was not designed to make healing in combat optimal. Doing so would lengthen the amount of rounds of combat, force someone into a healer role, and upset some of the design space created with bounded accuracy.

I agree that PCs bouncing up and down from consciousness is silly, so either don't clear death saving throws until a short rest or add a level of exhaustion when a PC drops to 0.

[Oerlaf]

It seems interesting that so many people find the fall-and-stand mechanique silly. I am still in the opinion, that there are too few in-compat healing options in D&D regardless of the edition.

[Sigreid]

If a party member drops you lose his actions of contributions. Always the case. You never want a party member to drop. Pre-3E it was hard because you could never prepare enough Cure Light Wounds. 3E helped by giving spontaneous healing, so you can heal when you need it and if you don't all the better. It also shared the healing around so the cleric wasn't the only one to do it. 4E allowed some characters to heal themselves. Pathfinder allowed for healing more than one PC at once at range. 5E lessed the amount of healing but everyone can heal themselves out of combat. In combat healing is possible and still be able to do something else.

Fortunately the players I play with don't have to be taught their lesson by changing the rules. No one lets others drop if they can help it, and if someone does drop someone else tries to get them back up or at least stabilized and not rely on death saves which are a last resort. It's called teamwork.

Yes, you don't want people to drop. But, if you have a choice between healing someone who is low on HP and ending the fight, ending the fight is better. Heal them after. This has always been true. If you're in a situation where your party is running out of HP faster than the enemy is, then you're in a bad situation anyway.

[Pex]

Yes, you don't want people to drop. But, if you have a choice between healing someone who is low on HP and ending the fight, ending the fight is better. Heal them after. This has always been true. If you're in a situation where your party is running out of HP faster than the enemy is, then you're in a bad situation anyway.

Sometimes the party member who dropped is the one who could end the fight faster. It could be the paladin who smites, the wizard with an important spell still to cast, the rogue who can sneak attack. Even if not by themselves their contribution of actions is what will end the fight. Sometimes it is the still up cleric or bard or whoever does the healing who could end the fight and heal after. Great. Do it. It's not a choice between always heal others who drop immediately and never heal others who drop in combat at all.

[Sigreid]

Sometimes the party member who dropped is the one who could end the fight faster. It could be the paladin who smites, the wizard with an important spell still to cast, the rogue who can sneak attack. Even if not by themselves their contribution of actions is what will end the fight. Sometimes it is the still up cleric or bard or whoever does the healing who could end the fight and heal after. Great. Do it. It's not a choice between always heal others who drop immediately and never heal others who drop in combat at all.

Ah, we're talking slightly differently. I think you should heal people who drop ASAP to avoid loosing them to unlucky death saves. If, however, the disembodied voice from the Gauntlet video game pipes up with "The fighter needs health badly", depending on how long it took him to get to that point the healer's best move is very likely not to heal right that second.

I hope that's more clear. Anyway, I think my comment has derailed the OPs thread enough.

[Pex]

Ah, we're talking slightly differently. I think you should heal people who drop ASAP to avoid loosing them to unlucky death saves. If, however, the disembodied voice from the Gauntlet video game pipes up with "The fighter needs health badly", depending on how long it took him to get to that point the healer's best move is very likely not to heal right that second.

I hope that's more clear. Anyway, I think my comment has derailed the OPs thread enough.

If it means anything, in my 5E game where I play the cleric I haven't cast one healing spell since the first session at level 1 because, yes, the fighter could do more to end the fight than I could. We're level 6 now. Out of combat healing has been potions, short rest spend HD, and Healer feat since level 4. In combat, knock on wood, we've managed to end the fight before it got too serious though healing potions have been drunk from time to time. In my other games, we haven't been so fortunate where in combat healing proved needed and valuable.