Polearm or Sword and Board?

[stormsouldevil]

Hey all- running a Half-orc barbarian alongside a sword and board Pally

Want to take a more interesting approach to combat and Im stuck between sword and board Barb and halberd. One rogue and a bunch of casters following up the rear.

I absolutely can not decide. Bth builds look both offensively and defensively fun. Ive seens ome folks rate the polearm higher but I want some more opinions.

Please tell me your thoughts and a why.

Stats are rolled with DM oversight (he doesnt like characters to be disproportionate stat wise so he makes sure we are all within a total +1 or so of each other. (Add all your modifiers together (including negatives and compare)

After racials; 18,14,16, 8,12,10

The module will go through level 11, but we will likely continue after that.

[Biggstick]

How are your stats being generated? Is it Point Buy? Rolling? Standard Array?

What level does the DM say the campaign will go to? Do you plan on staying Barbarian or are you considering a multiclass? What archetype of Barbarian are you planning on going?

Do you think competition for gear (one handers and shields) is going to be a problem if you went SnB?

Answer these questions and other folks might be able to contribute a bit more in helping you out. Now to answer your actual question, if you're going straight Barbarian, I'd say PAM/GWM are both feats you're going to want. I'd grab PAM at level 4, so you have a consistent bonus action (other then your bonus action Rage). After that though, it's up to what's important to you. Overall, you should be looking to grab two +2 Str ASI's (because I'm assuming you're starting with at least 16 Str), PAM, GWM, and either the Lucky feat or Resilient Wisdom. While some would argue over the order you take each, do what feels right to you imo.

Encourage your Paladin friend to grab the Sentinel feat when they get a chance if you're going the two handed route. With you recklessly attacking without a shield, most targets should be attracted to you instead of the heavily armored, shield toting Paladin.

Now if it was me playing the Barbarian, I would go SnB Half Orc Barbarian (16 Str, 14 Dex, odd number Wis). I'd go 6 levels Barbarian to start, grabbing Totem of the Bear for level 3 and 6. After that, I'd go 14 levels Thief Rogue. I'd spend my ASI's on maxing out Str, grabbing Sentinel and Resilient Wis. I like playing my "Barbarians" as big time tanks, and the Rogue levels give extremely mobility, damage output (free Sneak attack generation with Reckless Attack and use of a Short Sword), and fantastic damage reduction that stacks on top of Bear Barbarian resistances.

[krunchyfrogg]

Barbarians need the biggest weapons you can find, JMO.

[stormsouldevil]

How are your stats being generated? Is it Point Buy? Rolling? Standard Array?

What level does the DM say the campaign will go to? Do you plan on staying Barbarian or are you considering a multiclass? What archetype of Barbarian are you planning on going?

Do you think competition for gear (one handers and shields) is going to be a problem if you went SnB?

Answer these questions and other folks might be able to contribute a bit more in helping you out. Now to answer your actual question, if you're going straight Barbarian, I'd say PAM/GWM are both feats you're going to want. I'd grab PAM at level 4, so you have a consistent bonus action (other then your bonus action Rage). After that though, it's up to what's important to you. Overall, you should be looking to grab two +2 Str ASI's (because I'm assuming you're starting with at least 16 Str), PAM, GWM, and either the Lucky feat or Resilient Wisdom. While some would argue over the order you take each, do what feels right to you imo.

Encourage your Paladin friend to grab the Sentinel feat when they get a chance if you're going the two handed route. With you recklessly attacking without a shield, most targets should be attracted to you instead of the heavily armored, shield toting Paladin.

Now if it was me playing the Barbarian, I would go SnB Half Orc Barbarian (16 Str, 14 Dex, odd number Wis). I'd go 6 levels Barbarian to start, grabbing Totem of the Bear for level 3 and 6. After that, I'd go 14 levels Thief Rogue. I'd spend my ASI's on maxing out Str, grabbing Sentinel and Resilient Wis. I like playing my "Barbarians" as big time tanks, and the Rogue levels give extremely mobility, damage output (free Sneak attack generation with Reckless Attack and use of a Short Sword), and fantastic damage reduction that stacks on top of Bear Barbarian resistances.


Level 11 but with an option to play more. Im planning on staying Barb. And almost definitely Bear totem.

It could with the Paladin..... but I think you may have answered this question for me. There is no competition for halberds but there is at least 1 shield user in the group. (I think we have a cleric who may be grabbing a shield as well at some point.)

(Added other info to the main post as well.)

And Go team Crunchy

[ThurlRavenscrof]

I prefer pole arms if you have the feat because it gives you reliable uses of your bonus action and reaction. But if you're starting lower than level 4, I'd probably go sword and board till you can take the feat

[Bloodcloud]

Halberd definitely. The rage damage apply to the bonus action attack, and combined with Sentinel it's beastly. Do that, and enjoy some tactical play.

[Specter]

Polearm. Why? As a barbarian, you will be using Reckless Attack many times, and when your enemies attack you with advantage AC matters less and less. And you also want Great Weapon Master to wreck damage on your foes, and that's only possible with a heavy weapon.

If you do go the shield way, then make to grab Shield Master to trip your foes.

[Contrast]

Level 11 but with an option to play more. Im planning on staying Barb. And almost definitely Bear totem.

Is the rogue going melee? You'll be very popular if you go wolf. Paladins and rogues both love advantage.

[stormsouldevil]

Thanks all. And yes Id be going with the feat option in either case.

And wolf is a big contender; though id probably want it on sword and board.

[djreynolds]

PAM is great, but GWM and reckless attack is like... peanut butter and jelly

Have the paladin spam the bless spell and now you advantage and an additional 1d4 to your attack rolls

[CaptainSarathai]

Polearm Barbs can be downright nasty, but PAM is a trap for you.
If you Rage, especially as a Bear, no smart enemy will move towards you. Boom, there goes half of the feat.
The d4 butt end does get Ability+Rage damage, but this will never equal out to what a hit with GWM would do.

What you want is Great Weapon Master. With Reckless Attack, you can practically negate that -5 To Hit and essentially just have +10 damage.
Sure, you could use a Greataxe or Greatsword for +1 or +1.5 damage respectively, but that also requires you to get up close and personal with your enemy. The enemy you just gave Advantage. Outside of your Rage...

This is why I love Reach weapons: you get to dictate the positioning.
If you aren't Raging, and the party doesn't need you soaking up damage at the moment, you can pin enemies on your tanky Paladin friend, and then poke them from a distance for massive damage. If they want to capitalize on your Reckless Attack, they now have to break contact with the Paladin, and cop an OA.
If the fight is hard enough for them to need you as a damage-sponge, then you pop your Rage and soak up the hate while standing toe-to-toe and locking down enemies with your own OAs.

Seriously, unless you are a class that has a reason to square off toe-to-toe with your enemies, I'd sacrifice the -1 damage to get a Reach weapon any day.

[Biggstick]

Polearm Barbs can be downright nasty, but PAM is a trap for you.
If you Rage, especially as a Bear, no smart enemy will move towards you. Boom, there goes half of the feat.
The d4 butt end does get Ability+Rage damage, but this will never equal out to what a hit with GWM would do.

What you want is Great Weapon Master. With Reckless Attack, you can practically negate that -5 To Hit and essentially just have +10 damage.
Sure, you could use a Greataxe or Greatsword for +1 or +1.5 damage respectively, but that also requires you to get up close and personal with your enemy. The enemy you just gave Advantage. Outside of your Rage...

This is why I love Reach weapons: you get to dictate the positioning.
If you aren't Raging, and the party doesn't need you soaking up damage at the moment, you can pin enemies on your tanky Paladin friend, and then poke them from a distance for massive damage. If they want to capitalize on your Reckless Attack, they now have to break contact with the Paladin, and cop an OA.
If the fight is hard enough for them to need you as a damage-sponge, then you pop your Rage and soak up the hate while standing toe-to-toe and locking down enemies with your own OAs.

Seriously, unless you are a class that has a reason to square off toe-to-toe with your enemies, I'd sacrifice the -1 damage to get a Reach weapon any day.

You seem to be of two minds in this post. Your first paragraph calls Polearms (more specifically, PAM) a trap for Barbarians. You also seem to point out that smart enemies won't move towards you. Who says that? What about if a Wizard holds a Polearm, would an enemy never more towards them? Looks like we've found a way to keep the squishy Wizard safe amirite?

Ok, that's a bit confrontational. It sounds like you've had experience with DM's who are meta-knowledg'ing PAM for the enemies. That almost definitely shouldn't be a thing common and not-so-common enemies are capable of knowing about. Same applies for Sentinel. Most enemies don't know that the PC with Sentinel is capable of the things they're capable of (preventing retreat with the Disengage action, attacking them if they attack someone else, etc). DM's shouldn't play their NPC's as having that knowledge unless they're extremely studied up on the PC's tactics for some reason or another.

Your second paragraph advocates for GWM. I agree that it's a great feat. The +10 damage and potential bonus action attack are both very powerful for this particular character build.

Now this third paragraph, you talk about dictating position with reach weapons. Didn't we just go over that you think PAM is a trap? We don't simply start with "enemy" "SnB Paladin" "GWM Barb" set up in nice 5' increments from one another. There is movement that happens before this point, and Barbarians don't naturally have a way to react to this thing. PAM creates this opportunity for them, by giving them the reaction attack.

I agree that GWM is a solid feat overall. The swingy-ness of it though in the early game is not as valuable to me as is the consistent reaction attack (which Barbarians don't normally have) and the newly granted consistent bonus action attack (which Barbarians don't normally have, other then the activation of Rage) that PAM gives me. Sure, it's a little bit lower damage (if all attacks actually hit), but it's much more consistent.

[JAL_1138]

Take the two together and skip Sentinel, if you want the extra damage from GWM and the reach+BA+OA from PAM. You can GWM your BA attack and the OA when an enemy enters reach, too.

[JumboWheat01]

A barbarian without a great axe is like a bard without Vicious Mockery. A sham. /silly

You could combine Polearm Mastery with a shield by using a quarterstaff with one hand, if you REALLY can't decide. I've always liked the idea of a more defensive barbarian than one of pure offense, so I'd lean more towards sword and board (though with a battleaxe over a sword, cause barbarian reasons.)

[stormsouldevil]

Nice to hear from folks!~

Sorry I have been busy today. And Sword and Board you have.....something like 18 hours to make your case because Im setting in stone pretty soon; and there will be some competition with the Pally on shields.

Reading the Pole arm discussion as well.

I forget if I mentioned but it IS the new Storm Giant so I dont know how useful the shield bash will be.

[djreynolds]

With a paladin casting bless and you recklessly attacking, GWM is +10 damage a strike. At 4th level get GWM, you can wait on PAM.

PAM is great, but at lower levels you are now only using a polearm and you may find a magic greatsword more easily than a magic glaive or halberd.

PAM works with 2 weapons, GWM works all heavy weapons, and the first part of the feat works with any weapon so long as you crit or kill (could be duel wielding daggers) it still works regardless, only the second part of the feat requires a heavy weapon