Halfling Rogues

[WeaselGuy]

So, I have a question about Halfling Rogues. Specifically related to their Substitution Levels. So, as I understand it, at level 1, with the HSL, my ranged sneak attack is an additional d6, bringing it to +2d6, and my melee sneak attack is minus a d6, dropping it to 0. Then, at 3rd level, both melee and ranged sneak attacks increase by 1 die increment, bringing melee to +1d6, and ranged to +3d6 (total). That much, I think I understand. My question is, do I have to take the level 3 substitution level? Because I really don't want to give up the Penetrating Strike ACF that replaces my Trap Sense... and if I don't take that substitution level, unless I'm just crazy or sleep deprived, wouldn't my sneak attack dice still be +3d6 and +1d6, for ranged and melee respectively?

[ScrambledBrains]

I'm not a rules expert by any means, but as far as I know, you can choose whether or not you take a substitution level. So you don't have to take the level 3 one if you don't want to. :smallsmile:

Again, not a rules expert so take that with a grain of salt.

[Twurps]

You can choose on a level by level basis, so you can just pick the lvl1 substitution and skip the lvl3 one.

Also: The 1st level substitution you mentioned (ranged sneak attack) is from RotW, while penetrating strike is from Dungeonscape. So they don't seem to be linked anyway. If you were to take all substitution levels from RotW, you'd get thief's luck at 3rd. (which would also replace trapfinding, so your concerns remain valid)

[DEMON]

So, I have a question about Halfling Rogues. Specifically related to their Substitution Levels. So, as I understand it, at level 1, with the HSL, my ranged sneak attack is an additional d6, bringing it to +2d6, and my melee sneak attack is minus a d6, dropping it to 0. Then, at 3rd level, both melee and ranged sneak attacks increase by 1 die increment, bringing melee to +1d6, and ranged to +3d6 (total). That much, I think I understand. My question is, do I have to take the level 3 substitution level? Because I really don't want to give up the Penetrating Strike ACF that replaces my Trap Sense... and if I don't take that substitution level, unless I'm just crazy or sleep deprived, wouldn't my sneak attack dice still be +3d6 and +1d6, for ranged and melee respectively?

First of all, substitution levels are optional and any or all can be skipped.

Secondly, RAW the level 1 sub levels actually costs you a +1d6 melee SA but gives you no bonus to ranged SA. That is an obvious typo and should be treated the way mentioned in the OP so for the rest of this post, I'll consider it as such (+2d6 ranged / +0(d6) melee SA at level 1).

Thirdly, even if you skip your third level sub level, your SA would indeed improve by +1d6 (to a +3d6 ranged / +1d6 melee). This is not a feature of the Halfling Rogue 3 sub level, it's standard for Rogues to improve their sneak attack by +1d6 at odd levels.

As a side note, if you're looking at Penetrating strike, you're probably planning on using melee attacks (for flanking), so I don't think it's such a good idea to drop your melee SA by +1d6 for an equal boost to ranged SA with Halfling Rogue 1 sub level.


You can choose on a level by level basis, so you can just pick the lvl1 substitution and skip the lvl3 one.

Also: The 1st level substitution you mentioned (ranged sneak attack) is from RotW, while penetrating strike is from Dungeonscape. So they don't seem to be linked anyway. If you were to take all substitution levels from RotW, you'd get thief's luck at 3rd. (which would also replace trapfinding, so your concerns remain valid)

The Thief's Luck ACF only replaces the Rogue's Trap Sense, not Trapfinding. That feature is gained at 1st level as normal and is not affected in any way.

It's also irrelevant that Halfling Rogue sub levels and Penetrating Strike ACF are from different books. The OP's concern is that they both replace the same class feature and he's more fond of Penetrating Strike of the two.