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bugsysservant
2007-08-02, 02:24 PM
Stop me if such a thread exists. That being said -
I was wondering what the highest level of DR a character can obtain by 20th level is. The obvious would be a binder or a barbarian in adamantine full plate for DR 8/-, but that isn't much. Even a twentieth level monk gets DR 10/magic (although that is all but useless at 20th level.) So, having seen the pitiful depths of my own lack of inspiration, I put forth the following challenge. What is the highest DR that can be gained by 20th level, ignoring DR/magic and anything under +2, since you really should be facing at least +3 magical weapons at level twenty.

pantoffelheld
2007-08-02, 02:39 PM
well, the warforged (eberron) can take Adamantine Body at 1st level, giving them DR 2/adamantine. after that, take the feat Improved Damage Reduction every time for DR 8/Adamantine. Does DR gained this way stack with DR from classes like the barbarian? If it does, the DR can get pretty high, but I'm afraid it doesn't....

Sucrose
2007-08-02, 02:47 PM
An alternate choice would be to use the Mineral Warrior template, which gives DR 8/Adamantine, among other nice goodies for +1 LA.

Full details can be found here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20031003e).

After that, the Improved Damage Reduction feat, along with any other things that stack with damage reduction.

Irreverent Fool
2007-08-02, 02:50 PM
Get some fast healing. Aside from that one last hit, it may as well be damage reduction and you don't have to worry about somebody being able to punch through your weakness.

Jasdoif
2007-08-02, 02:51 PM
well, the warforged (eberron) can take Adamantine Body at 1st level, giving them DR 2/adamantine. after that, take the feat Improved Damage Reduction every time for DR 8/Adamantine. Does DR gained this way stack with DR from classes like the barbarian? If it does, the DR can get pretty high, but I'm afraid it doesn't....No, different sources of DR don't stack.

You only get the benefit of the biggest DR that applies to any given attack. Say you have DR 8/Adamantine and DR 5/--. If you're hit by an adamantine weapon, the damage is reduced by 5 since the bigger DR is bypassed; if you're hit by a weapon that isn't adamantine, the damage is reduced by 8.

Falrin
2007-08-02, 02:57 PM
In savage species (yeah I know) there's a feat that gets you an extra 2 DR. You can take it more then once if I'm correct.

Go Barbarian for some extra DR.

The Hammer of Moradin also offers a nice bonus (DR 6/- I think)

There's a feat (don't know where, races of stone I think) That gets you Heavy armour 1/- Damage Reduction.

So 1,3,6,9,12,15,18 are Iron Will and the rest Improved DR from Savage Species for 12/-

Adamantine Body for an extra 2/-

Hammer of Moradin for 6/-

2 Fighter for Improved Armour or something (don't think you can get it more then once for one type of armour) & Weapon Focus 1/-

2Fighter/3Cleric/3 Full BaB Class/9Hammer of Moradin/3 anything

Gets 20/- if I'm correct.

You might concider taking some extra Fighter LvLs for the feat.

Dwarven Defender might come in somewhere.

Person_Man
2007-08-02, 03:46 PM
Different forms of DR don't stack, they overlap.

Here's a list from the list thread (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=662842):


Barbarian
Barbarian (berserker strength variant), PHB 2, stacks with other types of DR
Monk 20, DR 10/magic
Dwarven Defender
War Mind 3, 6, 9/10, ecl 8, XPH, DR 1/- each
Tattoed Monk 1, ecl 6, Complete Warrior, DR 2/magic per tattoo
Pious Templar 3, 7/10, ecl 8, Complete Divine, DR 1/-
Ollam 5, ecl 12, Complete Adventurer, DR 5/- to ally
Acolyte of the Skin 10, ecl 16, Complete Arcane, DR 10/good
Alienist 10, ecl 15, Complete Arcane, DR 10/magic
Green Star Adept 1, ecl 6, Complete Arcane, DR 1/adamantine per level
Mythic Examplar (Reikhardt) 10, ecl 14, Complete Champion, aura 60', DR 2/-, 10 rounds per day
Iron Mind, Races of Stone
Eldeen Ranger 5 (Greensingers), ecl 10, Eberron Campaign Setting
Hammer of Moradin, PGtF
Favoured Soul 20, Complete Divine, DR 10/silver or DR 10/cold iron
Spirit Shaman 20, Complete Divine, DR 5/cold iron
Divine Crusader 10, ecl 17, Complete Divine, DR 10/magic
Eldritch Theurge 1, ecl 7, Complete Mage, DR 1/cold iron, improves with level
Ordained Champion 3, ecl 7, Complete Champion, see text
Eldritch Disciple 1, ecl 6, Complete Mage, see text
Martyred Champion of Ilmater, PGtF
Slime Lord, PGtF
Survivor 5, ecl 6, Savage Species, DR 5/-
Scaled Horror, SS
Moonspeaker, RoE
Runescarred Beserker 4, 7, 10/10, ecl 11, FR: Unapproachable East
Divine Ageneter 5, ecl 8, Player's Guide to Faerun, DR +5/silver
Knight of the Sacred Seal 5, ecl 10, Tome of Magic, DR 10/magic
Celestial Mystic 9, ecl 16, Book of Exalted Deeds, DR 10/unholy
Draconic Grafts, Races of the Dragon, DR X/magic
Fiend-Blooded 10, ecl 15, Heroes of Horror, DR 10/magic
Dragon Descendant 7, ecl 12, Dragon Magic, DR X/cold iron where X is your class level
Swift Wing 7, ecl 12, Dragon Magic, DR 5/magic
Dragonfire Adept 6, 16/20, Dragon Magic, DR 2/magic, later 5/magic
Knight of the Sacred Seal 5, ecl 10, Tome of Magic, 10/magic
Berserk 2, 4, 6, 8/10, ecl 7, Deities and Demigods, start at DR 1/-
Gray Hand Enforcer 1, 3, 5/5, ecl 8, FR: Waterdeep - City of Splendors, DR 1/- each time
Annoited Knight 1, ecl 6, Book of Exalted Deeds, DR 3/-
Celestial Mystic 9, ecl ?, Book of Exalted Deeds, DR 10/unholy
Champion of Gwynharwyf 3, 6, 8, 10/10, ecl 9, Book of Exalted Deeds, tops out at DR 5/-
Initiate of Pistis Sophia 10, ecl 16, Book of Exalted Deeds, DR 10/unholy
Swanmay 10, ecl 15, Book of Exalted Deeds, DR 10/cold iron
Troubadour of the Stars 10, ecl ?, Book of Exalted Deeds, DR 10/unholy

templates
Feral
Mineral Warrior, Underdark (FR)

Items
earth elemental grafts (Magic of Eberron), DR 1/- per graft beyond the first, explicitly stacks with others

feats
Roll With It, Savage Species
Shifter Defence, Eberron Campaign Setting
Greater Shifter Defence, Eberron Campaign Setting
Greater Resiliency, Complete Warrior, DR +1/existing
Planar Touchstone (Valley of Thunder), Planar Handbook, DR 5/magic (limited use)
Planar Touchstone (The Life Moulds of Neumannus), Planar Handbook, DR 5/adamantine (limited use)
Planar Touchstone (Peak of Continuation), Planar Handbook, DR 1/stacks with everything
Touchstone (Vale of Dead Trees), Sandstorm, DR 2/slashing
Bladeproof Skin, spelltouched feat, Unearthed Arcana, DR 3/bludgeoning
Cloak of the Obyrith, abyssal heritor feat, Fiendish Codex I, DR 1/lawful, increases with more abyssal heritor feats
Mark of Xoriat, feat, Eberron: Dragonmarked, DR 5/byeshk
Protective Mark, feat, Eberron: Dragonmarked, varies, see text
Fey Skin, Complete Mage, DR X/cold iron, see text
Ironskin Chant, bardic music feat, Complete Adventurer, DR 5/-


Other
Totem Avatar, soulmeld, Magic of Incarnum
Wind Cloak, soulmeld, Magic of Incarnum
Eurynome, vestige, ecl 7, Tome of Magic, DR 2/lawful
Halphax, vestige, ecl 17, Tome of Magic, DR 10/adamantine
Dragon Mantle, soulmeld, Dragon Magic, DR X/magic where X is essentia invested


With the notable exceptions of Feral and Mineral Warrior templates, in the best case scenarios you get DR 10/something around ECL 15ish. So in most cases, its not worth the class or feat or gp investment it takes to get serious DR.

Falrin
2007-08-02, 07:08 PM
Is there any way to get a permanent/at will/ a lot a day stoneskin?

UglyPanda
2007-08-02, 07:24 PM
bugsyservant, are you playing 3.0? DR x/+1 doesn't exist anymore. Biofeedback, a psychic warrior/psion power gives DR 2/- with an additional point of DR for every 3 PP. The Iron Body spell gives 15/adamantine, but it can be Divine-Metamagic persisted by a Cleric with the earth domain.

Person_Man
2007-08-02, 07:28 PM
Is there any way to get a permanent/at will/ a lot a day stoneskin?

Quite easily actually. Stoneskin is on the Earth and Strength Domain spell lists. The Persistent Spell feat allows a spell's duration to be lengthened to 24 hours. The Divine Metamagic feat allows you to burn Turn Undead uses to lower the level adjustment of any one metamagic feat.

But there's really no reason to Persist Stoneskin. It lasts 10 min per level, and is discharged after it prevents a total of 10 damage per caster level (max 150). So its better just to memorize it multiple times, rather then Persisting it.

This is another reason why Clerics and Druids are considered tiny gods when played correctly.

Iku Rex
2007-08-02, 07:41 PM
The Persistent Spell feat allows a spell's duration to be lengthened to 24 hours.Spells with a fixed or personal range. Stoneskin is range:touch.

Ramos
2007-08-02, 07:56 PM
A touch range spell has a fixed range.

Iku Rex
2007-08-02, 08:02 PM
No it doesn't.


Would spells that have touch range, such as spell
resistance, be considered to have a fixed range, and
therefore be usable with the Persistent Spell feat?
No. Range touch is not “fixed” for purposes of the Persistent
Spell feat. The spell must affect the caster’s person (personal
range) or have some effect that radiates from the caster’s
person (a fixed range, expressed in feet).

ArmorArmadillo
2007-08-02, 08:09 PM
No it doesn't.

I'm confused, do they mean Range: Touch or Ranged Touch, as in Searing Ray?

Iku Rex
2007-08-02, 08:27 PM
I'm confused, do they mean Range: Touch or Ranged Touch, as in Searing Ray?Range: touch. That's what it says (nonexistent style rules aside), that's what the question was about and the rest of the answer makes it crystal clear that range: touch isn't a fixed range.

Reinboom
2007-08-02, 08:27 PM
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20031003e (mineral warrior)

Anyways, I'll be using flaws, human, with mineral warrior template just for the +4 con. Since only 19 levels of barbarian are needed.
+5 From barbarian
4 feats at level 1, first of these is toughness. Next 3 are roll with it (+2 DR/, stacks with all other DR including self)
+11, 6 more feats from leveling, so... DR 23/ at ECL 20.

If you use human paragon targeting barbarian instead, you lose the last DR increment, but, you gain another feat. So, DR 24/ at ECL 19.
Not using flaws. DR 20/ at ECL 19.
Not using paragons either. DR 19/ at ECL 20.

bugsysservant
2007-08-02, 11:12 PM
bugsyservant, are you playing 3.0? DR x/+1 doesn't exist anymore. Biofeedback, a psychic warrior/psion power gives DR 2/- with an additional point of DR for every 3 PP. The Iron Body spell gives 15/adamantine, but it can be Divine-Metamagic persisted by a Cleric with the earth domain.

No I merely misspoke. Sorry about that. And to SweetRein - wow, that is impressive. No terribly powerful for a twentieth level character, but for straight up DR, impressive indeed. In what book is Roll With It?

Reinboom
2007-08-03, 12:10 AM
Savage Species, requirements: 20 con and toughness. Can take multiple times.

-Edit-
Oh, and if you don't mind DR/Adamantine instead of DR/
Same build, but apply the rolls with it to the adamantine DR for DR 28/Adamantine with 2 levels into human paragon and 17 levels of anything you want.

namo
2007-08-03, 12:44 AM
I assume it's a purely theoretical interest ? Because DR isn't worth much at high levels.

If you play a good character, note that DR X/good is just as good as DR X/- since your opponents are unlikely to carry the right weapons... For instance, Shapechanging into a Balor gets you DR 15/good and cold iron with minimal investment if you are a caster.

AtomicKitKat
2007-08-04, 05:20 AM
I had a thread a while back where I discussed stacking multiple DRs. You don't get more Damage Reduction, but Damage Reduction that is harder to bypass. I'm also surprised the Wizards CO board list doesn't have Woodling Template on there. It's DR 5/slashing, which may not be too impressive, but if you can combine it with DR X/Piercing or Bludgeoning, you'd be blocking all except multiple damage-type weapons.

Oh, and Fast Healing is strictly worse than DR(except for the part where it heals you from spell damage, which is something DR cannot do), since you should be dividing the Fast Healing by the number of attacks that land. Ie, FH 5 may sound great and all, but it's only equal to DR 1/- if your opponent lands 5 hits on you that round. Unless I misread and FH actually heals you per attack that lands(which, come to think of it, is how some DR is defined, so no dice there).

Irreverent Fool
2007-08-04, 05:32 AM
I had a thread a while back where I discussed stacking multiple DRs. You don't get more Damage Reduction, but Damage Reduction that is harder to bypass. I'm also surprised the Wizards CO board list doesn't have Woodling Template on there. It's DR 5/slashing, which may not be too impressive, but if you can combine it with DR X/Piercing or Bludgeoning, you'd be blocking all except multiple damage-type weapons.

Oh, and Fast Healing is strictly worse than DR(except for the part where it heals you from spell damage, which is something DR cannot do), since you should be dividing the Fast Healing by the number of attacks that land. Ie, FH 5 may sound great and all, but it's only equal to DR 1/- if your opponent lands 5 hits on you that round. Unless I misread and FH actually heals you per attack that lands(which, come to think of it, is how some DR is defined, so no dice there).

You're absolutely right, my mistake. Of course, I don't agree with 'strictly worse', as fast healing will take care of any HP damage you take whereas DR only applies to the physical variety of attacks. But that's another discussion.

AtomicKitKat
2007-08-04, 06:17 AM
You're absolutely right, my mistake. Of course, I don't agree with 'strictly worse', as fast healing will take care of any HP damage you take whereas DR only applies to the physical variety of attacks. But that's another discussion.

Ok, reread the above as "strictly worse for the purposes of this thread." :smallwink:

TomTheRat
2007-08-04, 11:04 AM
An alternate choice would be to use the Mineral Warrior template, which gives DR 8/Adamantine, among other nice goodies for +1 LA.

Full details can be found here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20031003e).

After that, the Improved Damage Reduction feat, along with any other things that stack with damage reduction.


Is it just me or is this template grossly overpowered?

Roderick_BR
2007-08-04, 11:25 AM
Goliaths from Races of Stone has a barbarian substitution level that gives you DR 2/adamantine, instead of DR 1/-. By level 19, you have DR 10/adamantine.
The trade off is a higher DR, but that can be overcome with adamantine weapons.

qube
2007-08-04, 12:17 PM
play tarrasque ?

Person_Man
2007-08-04, 08:44 PM
It's also worth noting that Stoneskin is a Touch spell that can be cast on anyone. So another good way to get high DR as a melee build is just to ask the caster in your party to use it on you.

Aquillion
2007-08-05, 01:06 PM
Stoneskin also has a 250 gp material component, don't forget. Not prohibitive later on, but you probably wouldn't want to keep it up 24/7.