Pistol and rapier pirate builds, need some help getting started.

[EisenKreutzer]

I'm working on a pirate-themed Pathfinder campaign, and one of the things I want to practice is building mechanically interesting pirate NPCs and foes.

The first thing I want to do is incorporate pistols. Early firearms only, and firearms are Martial weapons for this setting. The idea is to have characters that fight with a flintlock pistol in one hand and a melee weapon (dagger, rapier, sabre or cutlass mostly, though some more exotic weapons like scimitars are appropriate) in the other. Mostly this means that they get one (or two, if the pistol has two barrels) shot off when combat starts, after which they engage in melee (unless they carry more than one pistol, that is).

Any Paizo source for Feats is allowed. In addition, I'm using Freeport: City of Adventure, Razor Coast and it's Freebooters Guide as sources for this. Both Freeport and the Razor Coast books have some neat Feats for swordplay and firearms which I will be taking advantage of and encourage my players to use.

So, Playground, what are some good Feats for this style of combat? Which classes do this style of combat best?

[mistermysterio]

I'd probably look at the swashbuckler class for pathfinder. It's essentially built to be a pirate, especially the corsair archetype (but maybe you can create different pirates using different archetypes - picaroon and musketeer might be decent options as well)

Swashbuckler Guide (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1S6mCgF8JFOOepuB4v6yEsAZRNAqZ2H5i6RO-AqeEP_8/edit)

Might want to look at the "sword and pistol" feat to get an idea of feats to take to create what you want

Sword and Pistol (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjk24yR-4vUAhXDlVQKHTPNAx0QFggoMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.d20pfsrd.com%2Ffeats%2Fcombat-feats%2Fsword-and-pistol-combat%2F&usg=AFQjCNGKGVQFvBqcZ28nF67bz5SuoPKhFg&sig2=FUdY-5SEQUOrpU0GeyPIVg)

[Florian]

Hm... You´d need to be a bit clearer about what exactly you want to archive.
Open up with the Pistol and follow up with the Rapier is nothing a regular Swashbuckler build can´t do and doesn´t even need feats.
Question is whether you want do go beyond that. You could go into TWF, using the Pistol as a light mace and reloading by hitting, and similar things.

[TheFamilarRaven]

As cool as pistols are, you should either make pistols rare. Or reduce the price of them. Because if you're building these pirates as mindless mook to be slaughtered by the party and they all have at least one pistol, then you're dropping 500gp (selling at 1/2 price) into the lap of your PCs with each buccaneer slain if they get a chance to loot the bodies.

Just a suggestion.


As far a actual ways to pull this off? If all they doing is firing their guns and going for melee? A Swashbuckler with the picaroon archetype will grant you the firearm proficiency and light weapon Prof you'll want. Piranha Strike (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/piranha-strike-combat/) or Power Attack depending on what weapon they go with. They'll obviously need Weapon Finesse if they're using light weapons and have a high DEX. You can pick up Weapon Focus and then Either Piercing or Slashing Grace to get DEX to damage.

You might even want them to have Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot, since they'll be shooting on crowded ships and such, odds are they'll be shooting into melee.

Really, with all the feats you need to pull this off, Fighter might be the best choice.

But all of this really depends on what level these guys will be.

the Sword and Pistol feat is a huge feat investment for no real benefit if they won't be shooting in melee. Plus I still don't know of an ability that will, y'know, load a one-handed firearm when your other hand is occupied

[Florian]

It can be done when build around Empty Quiver Style.

[EisenKreutzer]

As cool as pistols are, you should either make pistols rare. Or reduce the price of them. Because if you're building these pirates as mindless mook to be slaughtered by the party and they all have at least one pistol, then you're dropping 500gp (selling at 1/2 price) into the lap of your PCs with each buccaneer slain if they get a chance to loot the bodies.

Just a suggestion.


I'm going to dramatically reduce the prices of firearms. The book suggests either 25% or 10%, and I'm still deciding between the two.

[Florian]

@EisenKreutzer:

You´ve basically two options: Build a type of switch-hitter, opening up with the pistol, then dropping it and proceeding to melee. That´s uncomplicated and can be done with any decent Swashbuckler build. Or you go the more complicated route and work towards taking the sword´n´pistol style into melee and make it a viable option.

Now I could give you some hints, but first we´d have to clear your stance on the "Trench Fighter" archetype.

[pi4t]

It's a pity you aren't using Path of War, because PoW expanded has a couple of very nice archetypes for that.

...Actually, the Privateer (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/path-of-war/classes/martial-class-templates/privateer-template/) is a class template (ie "archetype" that can be added to several classes) and doesn't really use the Path of War mechanics too much. You could probably use it on other classes in a non-PoW game, and just ignore the maneuver parts of the archetype.

[EisenKreutzer]

It's a pity you aren't using Path of War, because PoW expanded has a couple of very nice archetypes for that.

...Actually, the Privateer (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/path-of-war/classes/martial-class-templates/privateer-template/) is a class template (ie "archetype" that can be added to several classes) and doesn't really use the Path of War mechanics too much. You could probably use it on other classes in a non-PoW game, and just ignore the maneuver parts of the archetype.

Path of War is definitely on the table. I had forgotten about the Privateer archetype!


@EisenKreutzer:

You´ve basically two options: Build a type of switch-hitter, opening up with the pistol, then dropping it and proceeding to melee. That´s uncomplicated and can be done with any decent Swashbuckler build. Or you go the more complicated route and work towards taking the sword´n´pistol style into melee and make it a viable option.

Now I could give you some hints, but first we´d have to clear your stance on the "Trench Fighter" archetype.

Seems alright to me. I know it's intended to model a World War 1 soldier (because that AP is weird), but it can be used for any kind of firearm.

[mistermysterio]

If path of war is on the table, you can take the quick draw feat AND the mixed combat feat.

This would enable your pirates to sheathe and draw weapons as free actions that do not provoke. If you switch from melee to ranged using mixed combat, your ranged attacks do not provoke. Thus, you can reload weapons fairly easily and switch back and forth between firearms and melee throughout the fight.

Having various Privateers is also a good option (some with Warlord as a base, and some with stalker).

[Ninjaxenomorph]

IMO, the best PoW way to wield both sword and pistol is Privateer/Desperado. As for firearm rules, I second the 25% option. It makes firearms martial weapons, makes them expensive enough to be worthwhile, but not enough to make them unaccessable. If you REALLY want to include guns, just go for the 10% option, and remove Modern Firearms. Not fit for a pirate game.

[Florian]

Seems alright to me. I know it's intended to model a World War 1 soldier (because that AP is weird), but it can be used for any kind of firearm.

Well then. This is complicated and very feat intensive.

The core concept is centered around the Empty Quiver Style feat chain, allowing the use of firearms as melee weapons and opening up the option to reload the weapon with a melee hit.

So, basic prerequisites are: Weapon Focus (Pistol), Rapid Shot, Stabbing Shot.
Additional requirements and full chain: Points-Blank Shot (for Rapid Shot), Rapid Reload (Pistol), Empty Quiver Style/Flexibility/Flurry.
Additional feats needed: Two-Weapon Fighting (and upwards)
Nice to have feats: Improved Bravery, Opening Volley, Combat Reflexes, Snap Shot

Could be done with a Human Swashbuckler (Musketeer) 1/Gunslinger (Buccaneer) 2/Fighter (Trench Fighter) 3+

Look up the Dragoon Pistol, Dragoon Cartridge and Mage Shot in Villain Codex.