Would this Size Bonus Stack?

[thecrimsondawn]

So its obvious that if you increase in size, each size increase gets the listed (if any) bonus and penalty to your stats. However just as there are virtual size increases for weapons and CMB/CMD checks, there are various ways to get a temporary size bonus to your stats as well.

My question is - if you have two sources that give a size bonus to say - STR, without actually increasing your size (otherwise known as a virtual increase), would they stack, or would they follow the rule of only the highest applies?

[Psyren]

You get one "actual" size increase (which can consist of one or more steps) and one "effective" size increase (which can consist of one or more steps.) That's it.

So for example, a druid could wild shape into a Dire Wolf (actual size increase one step to Large) and then cast Strong Jaw on himself to boost his bite attack (effective size increase two steps to Gargantuan.) No further size increases would apply.

[upho]

Seems both you and Psyren are confusing size bonuses with damage die size increases.

Size bonuses are typed bonuses. They are not the same thing as damage die size increases. And unlike damage die size increases, there's no such thing as "virtual" or "actual" size bonuses. Treat size bonuses to Str exactly as you would other typed bonuses to Str (morale, enhancement, inherent etc). That is, multiple size bonuses to a single stat don't stack and you only gain the largest size bonus, regardless of source and regardless of whether the effect(s) granting the size bonus is also increasing or decreasing your size category or the damage die size of your attacks.

The same is true for size penalties, btw.

[Florian]

Hm, the original question was about two virtual size increases stacking.
That, they do not. If you have two sources saying you "count as one size larger", then both refer the original size and wouldn't´t stack.
Psyren is right by saying that mixed sources can stack, tho.

[Slithery D]

Here's the FAQ (http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9t5u) on how this works.


Size increases and effective size increases: How does damage work if I have various effects that change my actual size, my effective size, and my damage dice?

As per the rules on size changes, size changes do not stack, so if you have multiple size changing effects (for instance an effect that increases your size by one step and another that increases your size by two steps), only the largest applies. The same is true of effective size increases (which includes “deal damage as if they were one size category larger than they actually are,” “your damage die type increases by one step,” and similar language). They don’t stack with each other, just take the biggest one. However, you can have one of each and they do work together (for example, enlarge person increasing your actual size to Large and a bashing shield increasing your shield’s effective size by two steps, for a total of 2d6 damage).

[Psyren]

Seems both you and Psyren are confusing size bonuses with damage die size increases

No, the virtual ones aren't called size bonuses at all. See the FAQ that Slithery quoted, and effects like a Bashing shield or Strong Jaw.

[upho]

No, the virtual ones aren't called size bonuses at all. See the FAQ that Slithery quoted, and effects like a Bashing shield or Strong Jaw.Not only are they not called size bonuses, they also never apply to anything other than damage die size, and effects like a Bashing shield or Strong Jaw have nothing to do with size bonuses. (Although size altering effects like enlarge person tend to affect both damage die size and give size bonuses/penalties to certain static values, like Str and CMB).

The OP asked (my emphasis):
So its obvious that if you increase in size, each size increase gets the listed (if any) bonus and penalty to your stats. However just as there are virtual size increases for weapons and CMB/CMD checks, there are various ways to get a temporary size bonus to your stats as well.

My question is - if you have two sources that give a size bonus to say - STR, without actually increasing your size (otherwise known as a virtual increase), would they stack, or would they follow the rule of only the highest applies?"Virtual" and "actual" size increases only apply to damage die size, and the FAQ Slithery quoted has no bearing whatsoever on the OP's question regarding size bonuses to stats (such as Str). A size bonus is a typed bonus, and the general rule is that typed bonuses don't stack, temporary or not.

Note also that the following is incorrect and also seems to confuse the rules for stacking damage die sizes (and the quoted related FAQ entry) with the rules for size bonuses:
/snip/ However just as there are virtual size increases for weapons and CMB/CMD checks, there... /snip/Again, the "virtual" and "actual" size stacking rules only apply specifically to damage die size, not size bonuses/penalties to CMB/D or any other bonuses/penalties.

[upho]

Hm, the original question was about two virtual size increases stacking.
That, they do not. If you have two sources saying you "count as one size larger", then both refer the original size and wouldn't´t stack.
Psyren is right by saying that mixed sources can stack, tho.No, mixed sources of size bonuses do NOT stack.

Mixed sources of damage die size increases may however stack, but that is a separate matter.