Fighter Dueling without a shield

[Creyzi4j]

What's the best way to optimize a fighter with the dueling fighting style And he's not wearing any shield?

How can the fighter compensate for not having a shield (+2 ac) on his offhand?

Can he use bonus actions to punch, or grapple his opppnents (taverb brawler). Can he hove opponent with bonus action in offhand?

[CaptainSarathai]

You can still push/pull/shove/grapple with that off hand.
MCing any caster except Eldritch Knight means using that hand for casting, as well.
(for some reason, EKs get their weapon as a Focus, unlike say, BladeLock, Paladin, Cleric and Spellsinger)

[Creyzi4j]

You can still push/pull/shove/grapple with that off hand.
MCing any caster except Eldritch Knight means using that hand for casting, as well.
(for some reason, EKs get their weapon as a Focus, unlike say, BladeLock, Paladin, Cleric and Spellsinger)

Do u need to get the tavern brawler feat to grapple with that offhand?

[djreynolds]

With tavern brawler, say you have 2 attacks at 5th level

you can swing your sword as 1 attack

you can then punch for 1d4+1 and then gain a bonus action to grapple

but to gain that bonus action you must hit that creature with an unarmed strike or improvised weapon (melee)

So if you had 1 attack, that attack would need to be made unarmed or with an improvised weapon.... but as a DM I would allow you to grapple as bonus action even if you used a rapier instead of an improvised weapon

[Quoxis]

With tavern brawler, say you have 2 attacks at 5th level

you can swing your sword as 1 attack

you can then punch for 1d4+1 and then gain a bonus action to grapple

but to gain that bonus action you must hit that creature with an unarmed strike or improvised weapon (melee)

So if you had 1 attack, that attack would need to be made unarmed or with an improvised weapon.... but as a DM I would allow you to grapple as bonus action even if you used a rapier instead of an improvised weapon

I'm afb, but is there a rule for unarmed "dualwielding"?
I figure one could count the unarmed strike as the dual wield bonus attack, and you could use that attack (bonus) action for a grapple instead of the 1 damage... Am i overlooking something?

[djreynolds]

I'm afb, but is there a rule for unarmed "dualwielding"?
I figure one could count the unarmed strike as the dual wield bonus attack, and you could use that attack (bonus) action for a grapple instead of the 1 damage... Am i overlooking something?

The extra attack feature allows you to attack twice on your turn and with duel wielding two light weapons you get a 3rd attack with that off hand as a bonus action.

But with tavern brawler and the extra attack feature, he could swing with a sword in his right hand and punch with his left hand and then bonus action grapple, or he could punch with his left hand, bonus action grapple and then stab with his sword

I think, most of us assume all attacks of an 11th level fighter have to come from the main hand and the bonus action is only for the off hand, but there is nothing that says an 11th level fighter who has 3 attacks cannot main hand, off-hand, main hand, bonus action off hand

[Saiga]

What's the best way to optimize a fighter with the dueling fighting style And he's not wearing any shield?

How can the fighter compensate for not having a shield (+2 ac) on his offhand?

Can he use bonus actions to punch, or grapple his opppnents (taverb brawler). Can he hove opponent with bonus action in offhand?

Tavern Brawler is the obvious one, but you could just take the Brawny feat from UA for expertise in athletics and then replace one attack actual with a Grapple/Shove action to really lock down an opponent. Prone + Grapple really sucks for the person on the receiving end. Then you just slash away as they feebly try to beat your superb athletics checks.

[Specter]

Tavern Brawler is the obvious one, but you could just take the Brawny feat from UA for expertise in athletics and then replace one attack actual with a Grapple/Shove action to really lock down an opponent. Prone + Grapple really sucks for the person on the receiving end. Then you just slash away as they feebly try to beat your superb athletics checks.

This. Or just take a rogue level.

[Trampaige]

You can still push/pull/shove/grapple with that off hand.
MCing any caster except Eldritch Knight means using that hand for casting, as well.
(for some reason, EKs get their weapon as a Focus, unlike say, BladeLock, Paladin, Cleric and Spellsinger)

Where is their weapon listed as a focus? It isn't in the archetype description.

[rooneg]

(for some reason, EKs get their weapon as a Focus, unlike say, BladeLock, Paladin, Cleric and Spellsinger)

I'm almost 100% certain that's not true. Do you have a reference from the PHB that supports this? As I read it, Eldritch Knights (and Arcane Tricksters for that matter) aren't even allowed to use a spellcasting focus, since it's not mentioned at all in their spellcasting rules (like it is for Wizard, for example).

[nickl_2000]

I'm almost 100% certain that's not true. Do you have a reference from the PHB that supports this? As I read it, Eldritch Knights (and Arcane Tricksters for that matter) aren't even allowed to use a spellcasting focus, since it's not mentioned at all in their spellcasting rules (like it is for Wizard, for example).

That is correct, there is nothing in the PhB saying that the weapon is a focus. The EK gets to bond with their weapon, but it's still not a focus.

In the Arcane Focus section under equipment it specified Sorcerer, Warlock, and Wizard only.


Arcane Focus. An arcane focus is a special item— an orb, a crystal, a rod, a specially constructed staff, a wand-like length o f wood, or some similar item— designed to channel the power of arcane spells. A sorcerer, warlock, or w izard can use such an item as a spellcasting focus, as described in chapter 10.

[Lombra]

Grappler would work wonders, you always have a free hand to grapple, and you are likely to be good at it. Tavern brawler isn't that necessary, you lose some damage but it's not that big of a deal. Then, you will have to praise your DM for a scimitar of speed ;-P

[DivisibleByZero]

I'm afb, but is there a rule for unarmed "dualwielding"?
I figure one could count the unarmed strike as the dual wield bonus attack, and you could use that attack (bonus) action for a grapple instead of the 1 damage... Am i overlooking something?

Nope.
You need one level of Monk for Martial Arts., and then be wielding a Monk weapon, in order to do this.
TWF specifically applies to weapons, not unarmed.

[Dudewithknives]

What's the best way to optimize a fighter with the dueling fighting style And he's not wearing any shield?

How can the fighter compensate for not having a shield (+2 ac) on his offhand?

Can he use bonus actions to punch, or grapple his opppnents (taverb brawler). Can he hove opponent with bonus action in offhand?

You could do it with tavern brawler and an offhand attack, but honestly I would just use the same hand and just hit them with the pommel of your weapon to do the improvised attack.

If you want to go this rout you will need 3 things:

1. Multiple attacks, which fighter gets easily.

2. Expertise in Athletics and the strength to back it up. Can be done with a feat and just using a STR based weapon and not a finesse property build.

3. Advantage in Athletics is also very nice, which you can get with 1 level or Barbarian to rage with.

You could go Barbarian 1/Fighter X and keep it simple, or Barbarian 3 Battlerager / Fighter X to get even more grappley goodness.