Barbarian Tank Build-How should I go about it?

[Mini Hakkero]

A couple of friends and I are starting a new session soon, and I would like some tips for my Barbarian in future levels.
Here's what I got thus far (we rolled for the stats, and I actually got pretty lucky)
STR-16
DEX-20
CON-18
INT-5
WIS-13
CHA-14
Proficiencies: Animal Handling, Athletics, Intimidation, and Persuasion.
I am a Stout Halfling Barbarian at first level. I use a scimitar (I know the rapier would be strictly better, but scimitars are too cool to pass up), a shield, and I have two javelins with me. I would like to be as tank-y as possible, but I also want to be able to hold my own damage-wise. I was thinking about taking a three-level dip in Fighter for Maneuvers, but I'm not too sure.

[jaappleton]

A couple of friends and I are starting a new session soon, and I would like some tips for my Barbarian in future levels.
Here's what I got thus far (we rolled for the stats, and I actually got pretty lucky)
STR-16
DEX-20
CON-18
INT-5
WIS-13
CHA-14
Proficiencies: Animal Handling, Athletics, Intimidation, and Persuasion.
I am a Stout Halfling Barbarian at first level. I use a scimitar (I know the rapier would be strictly better, but scimitars are too cool to pass up), a shield, and I have two javelins with me. I would like to be as tank-y as possible, but I also want to be able to hold my own damage-wise. I was thinking about taking a three-level dip in Fighter for Maneuvers, but I'm not too sure.

Bear Totem Barbarian

/thread

Seriously. Resistance to everything but Psychic? Too good to pass up.

[Mith]

If you want to reduce the damage coming your way as much as possible, Bear Totem is great.
Eagle offers you more mobility to get where you want to go.
Wolf allows you to grant advantage to all your melee allies. So depending on party composition, you may get more mileage out of this or Eagle then you will out of Bear.

[xen]

Bearbarian is about as tanky as it gets.

What level will you be stopping at? With your stats and weapon choice, I would take a jaunt into 5 levels of assassin rogue after I got extra attack, adding easy 3d6 sneak attack damage, first round auto crits playing off your advantage on initiative, some bonus action options, and uncanny dodge which would combine with bearbarian to make you a damage soaking machine.

Boom, you can take it and dish it out.

[Sigreid]

At I think it's 6th level, Elk is great. Doubles your movement speed. Especially as a halfling it'll help you close distances quickly.

[Corran]

Bear totem @lvl3, and resilient wisdom and bringing that con up to 20, seem like logical choices.

I dont know how optimal it would be to multiclass in rogue, but 7 levels of rogue (perhaps after getting extra attack) wouldnt be that bad (for uncanny dodge, evasion and some sneak attack). There is significant lack of synergy between your resistances (from rage and bear totem) and the rogue features uncanny dodge and evasion, but if you are willing to push your survivability even further, that could be one could way to go about it (while also grabbing some sneak attack dice to boost dpr).

If UA is allowed, you can grab a level in shadow sorcerer, for the ridiculously op strength of the grave feature. You have con save proficiency and an amazing con (max it with your next ASI if going this route), and the resistances to further mitigate damage and make that saving throw more easily. You've got the charisma to pull it off and it is just a 1 lvl dip, so why not...?

[djreynolds]

A couple of friends and I are starting a new session soon, and I would like some tips for my Barbarian in future levels.
Here's what I got thus far (we rolled for the stats, and I actually got pretty lucky)
STR-16
DEX-20
CON-18
INT-5
WIS-13
CHA-14
Proficiencies: Animal Handling, Athletics, Intimidation, and Persuasion.
I am a Stout Halfling Barbarian at first level. I use a scimitar (I know the rapier would be strictly better, but scimitars are too cool to pass up), a shield, and I have two javelins with me. I would like to be as tank-y as possible, but I also want to be able to hold my own damage-wise. I was thinking about taking a three-level dip in Fighter for Maneuvers, but I'm not too sure.

Are you willing to place more into strength? Or will you leave it at 16?

IMO, you are grabbing barbarian for the damage resistance from rage and unarmored defense and leaving, 3 to 4 levels. You pop rage when needed for defensive purposes.

I would seriously consider monk. Monk allows you to use dex for all you attacks and instead of dex and wis, you will use dex and con. Secondly, in time (14 more levels) you can fix that crappy intelligence save that as DM I would continually target (I'm talking mind flayers)

The issue is your strength score, will you make this a 20? If not, grab 3 to 4 levels and leave. You got what you needed and perhaps grab ranger and/or fighter and use rage when things go bad.

[stonegategames]

Bear Totem, pump Con.

Don't really plan a build past 10 - most campaigns will end far before then. Grab Durable if you use feats and don't have a healer to top off during short rests.

[djreynolds]

Bear Totem, pump Con.

Don't really plan a build past 10 - most campaigns will end far before then. Grab Durable if you use feats and don't have a healer to top off during short rests.

I agree with this, but a barbarian wants to get hit. If you are AC is 22 at 4th level, 20 dex/20 con and shield... as a DM I'm gonna look to hurt your pals. As it is with a 20 dex/18 con and shield... its 21 AC. What enemy is hitting 21AC at 1st level?

What are your thoughts?

[stonegategames]

Reckless Attacks and reach weapons. You are going to hit a lot of people, make them angry, and make yourself a target. Go Sentinel and keep them from running away to hit your allies when you hit them with your opportunity attack.

[Corran]

I agree with this, but a barbarian wants to get hit. If you are AC is 22 at 4th level, 20 dex/20 con and shield... as a DM I'm gonna look to hurt your pals. As it is with a 20 dex/18 con and shield... its 21 AC. What enemy is hitting 21AC at 1st level?

What are your thoughts?
Yeah, that could be a problem if the rest party members cannot hold their own. I mean, there is high probability that the enemies will simply ignore this lobster halfling and go for the squishies whenever they can. But if the rest of the party has rolled that well, and they work something out as a team strategy (some sort of effective crowd control), it will roll fine.

If that is going to be an issue, the best thing to do is to get sentinel and tunnel fighter (I cannot believe I am suggesting tunnel fighter...) if that fighting style is allowed. But hopefully there will be a ''controler'' in the team...

[djreynolds]

But other than a spear, every other weapon is like at disadvantage.

I would say this is wear TWFing and multiclassing into fighter/ranger is worth it and just run around and cause havoc

[Misterwhisper]

The newer UA Ancestral Guardian path is a better tank than Bear in my opinion.

[jaappleton]

The newer UA Ancestral Guardian path is a better tank than Bear in my opinion.

I want to argue against this, because I'm such a big fan of Totem, but I can't.

They're both incredibly tanky, but in very different ways. Totem makes the Barbarian itself so hard to kill, due to resistance to everything but Psychic. But at the same time, Guardian makes it harder to kill your allies.

I'm curious, how tanky is a Barbarian / Banneret (Purple Dragon Knight) Fighter?

[Mini Hakkero]

Thank you for all the suggestions! As of right now, it looks like I will go 4 levels into barbarian (I won't be missing that ASI, I'll be pumping Con), and then take 7 (or 8 for another ASI) levels into rogue-assassin archetype-for 4d6 sneak attack, uncanny dodge, evasion, and assassinate. Because of the Rogue's D8 hit die, I'll be using my next ASI for the Tough feat. I doubt I'll need to plan any further than that. If it does, I'm thinking about a two-level dip in Paladin for Divine Smite, but I'm worried that I might be spreading myself out a little too thin if I do that.

[jaappleton]

I wouldn't worry at all about the Tough feat. I'd go Shield Master instead.

You're the only class getting a d12 HD and you're at 20 Con. You literally are the max HP that you can get without modifying your race or taking a feat.

Remember, as a Barbarian, you'll have Resistance while raging. Your AC is already super high because of your rolled stats. Typically, on a Barbarian, your AC won't be that high (using typical point buy) but it won't matter so much because you have such a ton of HP. Enemies have to deliver more damage to bring you down, that's the difference. So in a strange sense, HP = AC for a Barbarian.

I honestly do think you can go without the Tough feat. There's better Feats out there for you.

[Mini Hakkero]

Fair enough, but I wouldn't necessarily take the Shield Master feat, since it overlaps a little with Evasion. I was looking through the feat list again. Would Alert be a good pick? another +5 to initiative would be amazing for the Assassin Roguish Archetype. Or maybe Mobile, since I am a Halfling. That extra movement, as well as being able to shrug off difficult terrain. Not provoking attacks of opportunity is pretty nifty, too.

[xen]

Thank you for all the suggestions! As of right now, it looks like I will go 4 levels into barbarian (I won't be missing that ASI, I'll be pumping Con), and then take 7 (or 8 for another ASI) levels into rogue-assassin archetype-for 4d6 sneak attack, uncanny dodge, evasion, and assassinate. Because of the Rogue's D8 hit die, I'll be using my next ASI for the Tough feat. I doubt I'll need to plan any further than that. If it does, I'm thinking about a two-level dip in Paladin for Divine Smite, but I'm worried that I might be spreading myself out a little too thin if I do that.

Sounds like a good plan. And fun! Although I would skip the Paladin levels as with only 2 level 1 spell slots you won't be doing much smiting.

How lenient is your DM? You might look at the warlock options from the Warlock & Wizard UA if you want to do some smiting. Ask your DM if you can form Cursebringer into a scimitar instead. Or maybe one of the other smiting weapon invocations if you dont want hexblade.

3 levels would get you the same 2 spell slots as Paladin to smite with, but 2nd level slots instead of 1st and refreshing on short rests instead of long.

Hexblade would get you a delicious once per short rest curse with extra damage, double the crit % and temp HP, plus all the normal Warlock goodies. Lots of synergy with AoA. And gives you some great options if you aren't raging.

Or go 4 levels and don't miss your ASI plus get an extra cantrip and spell option.

Either way, sounds viable and fun!

[xen]

Fair enough, but I wouldn't necessarily take the Shield Master feat, since it overlaps a little with Evasion. I was looking through the feat list again. Would Alert be a good pick? another +5 to initiative would be amazing for the Assassin Roguish Archetype. Or maybe Mobile, since I am a Halfling. That extra movement, as well as being able to shrug off difficult terrain. Not provoking attacks of opportunity is pretty nifty, too.

How often do you think you can pull off surprise. If the answer is a reasonable amount of the time, Alert would be a terrific choice for Assassin. Especially since you won't be getting barbarian feral instinct, advantage on init, with only 4 barbarian levels. That and expertise on stealth would help you lots.

[jaappleton]

Fair enough, but I wouldn't necessarily take the Shield Master feat, since it overlaps a little with Evasion. I was looking through the feat list again. Would Alert be a good pick? another +5 to initiative would be amazing for the Assassin Roguish Archetype. Or maybe Mobile, since I am a Halfling. That extra movement, as well as being able to shrug off difficult terrain. Not provoking attacks of opportunity is pretty nifty, too.

As part Assassin, Alert would be a solid pickup.

Rogues get Uncanny Dodge at 5, and Evasion at 7, so the validity of Shield Master diminishes depending on how far you go into Rogue. Honestly I was suggesting it based on the ability to prone an enemy using your bonus action, to get Advantage on attacks (for yourself and allies) without using Reckless Attack to grant your opponents Advantage on you, not for the defensive aspect.

Back to Alert, it's a solid pickup for almost anybody. Going first, for any class, is amazing. If the Wizard goes first he can lay down Hypnotic Pattern to render enemies useless or Fireball to try to take out the lesser foes before they can do anything. Alert on yourself would have a slew of benefits as well, obviously helping your Assassin aspect while allowing you to rush forward to make yourself a target, so combatants could focus on you.

[Mini Hakkero]

Oh, I forgot about the hexblade! I'll definitely consider it, since the hexblade does bring a lot of things to the table. So, istead of getting a feat on my next ASI, I could just pump Cha. I was not envisioning a martial spellcaster, but it definitely sounds like it'd be a lot of fun!

[jaappleton]

Oh, I forgot about the hexblade! I'll definitely consider it, since the hexblade does bring a lot of things to the table. So, istead of getting a feat on my next ASI, I could just pump Cha. I was not envisioning a martial spellcaster, but it definitely sounds like it'd be a lot of fun!

I've played two Hexblades.

They rule. As a standalone class they're pretty damn solid, though I legitimately only recommend it if you're going with a two handed weapon.

[Mini Hakkero]

As part Assassin, Alert would be a solid pickup.

Rogues get Uncanny Dodge at 5, and Evasion at 7, so the validity of Shield Master diminishes depending on how far you go into Rogue. Honestly I was suggesting it based on the ability to prone an enemy using your bonus action, to get Advantage on attacks (for yourself and allies) without using Reckless Attack to grant your opponents Advantage on you, not for the defensive aspect.

Back to Alert, it's a solid pickup for almost anybody. Going first, for any class, is amazing. If the Wizard goes first he can lay down Hypnotic Pattern to render enemies useless or Fireball to try to take out the lesser foes before they can do anything. Alert on yourself would have a slew of benefits as well, obviously helping your Assassin aspect while allowing you to rush forward to make yourself a target, so combatants could focus on you.

Ah, yeah that would actually be very useful. I'm unsure how to necessarily go about everything, since I have a limited amount of ASI's. I know the first one will be used to pump Con, The second one will either be used for Alert or Shield Master, and then the third one would either be pumping Cha or taking the feat I didn't choose the last ASI, depending on if I go Hexblade Warlock.

[xen]

Ah, yeah that would actually be very useful. I'm unsure how to necessarily go about everything, since I have a limited amount of ASI's. I know the first one will be used to pump Con, The second one will either be used for Alert or Shield Master, and then the third one would either be pumping Cha or taking the feat I didn't choose the last ASI, depending on if I go Hexblade Warlock.

You'd probably be fine not pumping Charisma. You don't have to use it over dex, since dex is already at 20. It's just an option.

And you don't need Cha to spam agonizing blast EB, as your rogue levels make a bow a great ranged option with sneak attack. There are some good invocation options for a barbarian/rogue without doing the whole agonizing blast thing.

Just go with buffs and spells that don't rely on Cha. Lots of great options.

Btw, if going this route, you really need to find out if your DM will let you do the whole swap out Cursebringer for a scimitar thing otherwise you might want to consider other options.

[Mini Hakkero]

You'd probably be fine not pumping Charisma. You don't have to use it over dex, since dex is already at 20. It's just an option.

And you don't need Cha to spam agonizing blast EB, as your rogue levels make a bow a great ranged option with sneak attack. There are some good invocation options for a barbarian/rogue without doing the whole agonizing blast thing.

Just go with buffs and spells that don't rely on Cha. Lots of great options.

Btw, if going this route, you really need to find out if your DM will let you do the whole swap out Cursebringer for a scimitar thing otherwise you might want to consider other options.

I just email'd my DM, I hope he allows it! As for the Cha pumping vs. feat, you do pose a good point. So, I guess the only question left is; Alert first, or Shield Master first? I would say Alert, simply because of the fact that I can throw myself into combat first, and it also synergizes well with Assassin. But, then again, Shield Master sort of loses effectiveness once Evasion comes in (being able to knock an enemy prone on a bonus action is pretty useful regardless, though).

[jaappleton]

Something to consider instead of Warlock...

Fighter.

You won't need to worry about your Charisma. You can pick any Archetype there. You'll get a Fighting Style, Second Wind, Action Surge... And if you go 3 levels, you get all the archetype bonuses. Crit on a 19 or 20, or Battlemaster Maneuvers, etc.

It's strongly worth considering for Duelist Fighting Style alone. Or Mariner Style, since that'd get you another +1 to AC, I believe.

[Mini Hakkero]

Something to consider instead of Warlock...

Fighter.

You won't need to worry about your Charisma. You can pick any Archetype there. You'll get a Fighting Style, Second Wind, Action Surge... And if you go 3 levels, you get all the archetype bonuses. Crit on a 19 or 20, or Battlemaster Maneuvers, etc.

It's strongly worth considering for Duelist Fighting Style alone. Or Mariner Style, since that'd get you another +1 to AC, I believe.

The Mariner Fighting Style does seem interesting, but I only get a +1 to AC if I do not have a shield or heavy armor. I'm not worried about the heavy armor, but I am worried about the shield. I could get the dual wielder feat and get the same AC I would have with a shield, but that would be using another ASI. However, the Martial Archetypes the Fighter presents are solid options. I do like the hexblade more, but I will probably go with Fighter if the DM doesn't allow Cursebringer to be a Scimitar.

Thanks for all the help, everyone! This build has taken an unexpected turn, but I'm loving every part of it!

[jaappleton]

Forgot Mariner won't let you use a shield. Duelist is still worth looking at, though.

[Mini Hakkero]

Forgot Mariner won't let you use a shield. Duelist is still worth looking at, though.

I was thinking more along the lines of the Protection feat, since that'll allow me to increase the survivability of my companions, of course, Dueling would be useful for increasing my DPR.

[jaappleton]

I was thinking more along the lines of the Protection feat, since that'll allow me to increase the survivability of my companions, of course, Dueling would be useful for increasing my DPR.

You mean the Protection fighting style?

Doesn't that use your Reaction? It'd contend with Uncanny Dodge from Rogue. You only get one reaction per round.

[Mini Hakkero]

You mean the Protection fighting style?

Doesn't that use your Reaction? It'd contend with Uncanny Dodge from Rogue. You only get one reaction per round.

That is true. I'll just stick with Dueling, then.

[Citan]

A couple of friends and I are starting a new session soon, and I would like some tips for my Barbarian in future levels.
Here's what I got thus far (we rolled for the stats, and I actually got pretty lucky)
STR-16
DEX-20
CON-18
INT-5
WIS-13
CHA-14
Proficiencies: Animal Handling, Athletics, Intimidation, and Persuasion.
I am a Stout Halfling Barbarian at first level. I use a scimitar (I know the rapier would be strictly better, but scimitars are too cool to pass up), a shield, and I have two javelins with me. I would like to be as tank-y as possible, but I also want to be able to hold my own damage-wise. I was thinking about taking a three-level dip in Fighter for Maneuvers, but I'm not too sure.
Hi!
Well, you have some insane starting stats there. XD
"Would like to be as tanky as possible": well, you are starting with 21 AC (19 Unarmored + shield) so it should be very fine.
If you want to get even more bang for your buck though there are many options you may consider.

The one I would recommend is Rogue: Sneak Attack with scimitar (nice extra damage), Expertise (which you can pair with Shield Master feat on level 4 to shove prone your opponents with ease), great mobility/stealth with Stunning Action. As for archetypes, AT is obviously not a good choice because you will be usually raging (unless you want some efficiency for when out of rages, in which cases it's a decent choice because of weapon cantrips and Shield), I'd suggest Swashbuckler if available because it gives free disengage on the creatures you attacked and a +2 Initiative bonus.

When you go higher in Rogue, you get better Sneak Attack, another Expertise, and extremely good defensive options (Uncanny Dodge stacked on Bear resistance would make you stupidly resiient, Evasion really helps with AOE spells).

The best is: while it's always recommended to go at least 5 level straight into your primary class, you could technically mix and match however you want the leveling between those two classes because both synergize so well. Still, I'd probably recommend something like Barbarian 5 / Rogue 2 / whatever you want.

Other 3-level max options you may consider instead of/in addition of Rogue...
Champion Fighter (++ damage): considering Barbarian has better crits than others, expanding the crit range is always a good thing. You also get a Fighting Style (Mariner or Dueling) and Action Surge.
Long Death Monk (+ mobility, + defense): some overlap with Barbarian (Unarmored), some useless features (because you wield a shield), but extra movement and Dodge as bonus action per short rest may be nice. Getting a few THP on kill too. Probably not the best choice mechanics-wise though.
Fiend Tome Warlock (+++ utility, + skills): this may seem counter-intuitive, since a caster, but you can greatly expand defense if you are ready to lose a turn for that since Armor of Agathys and Mirror Image are both non-concentration. You also gain 1st and 2nd level rituals (Book of Ancients Secrets), two more skills (Beguiling Influence) and a whole bunch of cantrips to give you plenty of good options for when out of rage (Green Flame Blade, Booming Blade) or for non-combat situations (Mold Earth, Shape Water, Mage Hand, Message, Mending, Minor Illusion, Prestidigitation, Guidance, Light etc).
Lore Bard (+++ skills, + mobility, + defense): learn Healing Words (just because you never know) then Longstrider (1-hour non-concentration movement buff), Earth Tremor, See Invisibility and whichever between Silence, Enhance Ability, Invisibility or Heat Metal. The main thing Bard brings is really Jack of All Trades (+2 on any non-proficient check), 6 extra skills including 2 Expertise, and Cutting Words.
Druid: this caster class has many good non-concentration spells available. You could go Moon Druid 2 to get better Wild Shapes for moving / scouting / spying (great at first levels if DM allows Unarmored and Rage to stick when Wild Shaped, but will fall short later) or Land Druid 3 to get Mirror Image: cast Longstrider / Jump / Mirror Image before the big fights, or use Thunderwave to push enemies trying to encircle you.

I could probably find decent to good ideas for all other classes, but I think you already have plenty of choice here. I suggest you choose depending on...
1. Whether you want synergy with "Raging state" or alternatives for when out of rages (at early levels can happen more often than you want because low number of rages and sometimes early effect end).
Rage Synergy = Rogue > Fighter. Rage Alternative = Bard. In-between = Warlock > Druid.

2. Your party composition and your primary role in it (solo = skills, rituals and self-heal/defense are all useful, otherwise you can perfectly do with only starting skills and healing from potions/friends if available).
Solo: Rogue probably the best with Ritual Caster added, then comes Bard (with also Ritual Caster feat), then Warlock.
3-man party: Lore Bard, Rogue or Warlock will bring much to the party by filling either on skills part or ritual part.
4+ party: normally all important skills should be covered, and there will probably be someone with Rituals already. So focus on your strengths unless you want your character to be versatile because of concept.

[Mini Hakkero]

As of right now, All I know is we will have another Rogue who is very bad at stealthing (I heard she also dumped Con, so...), and we might get a Great Old One Warlock. Outside of what I just presented, I don't know anything else about the rest of my party. Since this (probably) means we already have a spellcaster and a utility character, I will try to eat up as much damage as possible (I would essentially be the party's wall).
As of right now, it looks like I will go Barbarian until level four or five (fast movement + extra attack would be nice), I will pick the Bear Totem Path.
My first ASI will go to pumping Con.
I will then dive 8 levels into Assassin Rogue for Uncanny Dodge, Evasion, and Assassinate.
My second and third ASI will go into the Alert and Shield Master feats.
After all of that, I will probably be able to soak up all the damage I will ever need to, so I will put the rest of my levels into either Hexblade Warlock (if my DM allows me to make Curse Bringer a Scimitar) or Fighter. Either class presents great possibility for damage. If I go Fighter, I will probably go with the Dueling Fighting Style, since Mariner won't allow me to use a shield. I'm unsure which Martial Archetype to go with, though. Champion is nice because of its improved crit range, but Battle Master is great too because it gains Maneuvers.
If I go this route, I will have Barbarian 5, Rogue 8, and Warlock/Fighter 7 at level 20. I will also have one more ASI that I genuinely don't know what to do with.

EDIT: I just looked through the previous posts. Tunnel Fighter actually seems useful, especially if my allies are still squishy at the higher levels. I guess I'll pick a fighting style if and when we reach those levels.

[djreynolds]

You have the idea now.

Grab barbarian to 4, get your features out of it that you need, rage resistance and unarmored defense.

I would recommend that you grab swashbuckler, you can now sneak attack lone opponents or buddy up.

I would grab sentinel and resilient something (wisdom) and I would leave con at 18.

Reckless attack will require you to use your strength, 16 which to be honest is fine, but you have a 20 in dexterity. And I would not waste the ASI in maxing this out to 20 when you need other feats and ASI.

Because of you small size, shield master and shoving may not be the best investment for you as, AFB, I think you can only shove around medium sized opponents.

Dex-based barbarian are an odd build, IMO, because the rage damage and reckless attack requires strength (and again a 16 isn't far off from a 20, +3 or +5)

But you have what you need in terms of defense, so grab barbarian 4 (5 if you really want that 2nd attack)

Barbarian 4/ swashbuckler 12 will give you 5 ASI by level 16.