Do you actually like the Monster Race Stats from Volo's Guide?

[Shadow_in_the_Mist]

I was just looking at the PC stats for Goblins, Hobgoblins, Bugbears, Orcs, Kobolds and Yuan-ti Purebloods in Volo's Guide to Monsters again, and it really strikes me that I'm not a huge fan of the results.

Orcs and Kobolds were the first reintroduction of negative ability modifiers.

Kobolds not only have a triple-array of racial penalties (-2 Strength, Small, Sunlight Sensitivity), but their most powerful racial trait is based on their ability to grovel really, really well, which is kind of a kick in the teeth if you want to play a kobold whose character is based around not being the standard toady.

Yuan-ti Purebloods? Well, I've seen a lot of complaints about them being overpowered elsewhere, and I have to admit, the Magic Resistance trait does seem overpowered, even remembering the gnomic magic resistance from the PHB.

Bugbears getting a 10ft reach makes no sense, given it's an ability that the MM version lacks entirely and doesn't even fit the racial fluff - it's something that'd go better with a race like Firbolgs or Goliaths!

But enough about me. Did you have problems with any of these monstrous PC statblocks? If yes, which ones? Why? And are there any of the six races here that you would consider deserves an alternate, hopefully better-fitting statblock?

[DragonSorcererX]

Kobolds should have been +2 Dex, +1 Cha and instead of that stupid Grovel ability they should have a Sorcerer Cantrip like the High Elves have a Wizard Cantrip because even in 5e they keep mentioning how sorcerous they are!

Or maybe +2 Dex, +1 Int and proficency with Tinker's Tools or Thieve's Tools if they want to emphasize the trapsmith aspect of the kobolds...

[Dman]

Bugbear I feel like they wanted something special for the stealthy classess, I am playing a bugbear right now and the 5'' bonus hasnt really come up but I dunno what I would want that the bugbear couldnt just get from other sources.

I am planning on playing a Lizardfolk in my next campain so ill see how that goes.

I have also seen friends play Tabaxi and Aasimir without any problems from the specific race

[Sabeta]

For some reason my fantasy of a bugbear has always had reach. Medium Humanoids but with slightly elastic arms that let them spring attacks that had surprising reach. Does the MM version really not have that? My only guess is to reduce their possible DPR and keep them at a low enough CR for new adventures.

I guess it's fine since I only use Volo's monstrous races as templates for monsters. I like the idea of Goblins being a threat no matter your level. I plan on running a setting where each monstrous race has its own kingdoms, and as you delve further into them the levels grow higher.

Presently playing a Fallen Aasimar, and she's been great so far.

[Sigreid]

My biggest gripe is the kobold and the orc. Not that they are weak but it annoys me that they broke their no negative standard for just those two races. I would rather remove grovel and get rid of the str. penalty.

[qube]

Kobolds not only have a triple-array of racial penalties (-2 Strength, Small, Sunlight Sensitivity), but their most powerful racial trait is based on their ability to grovel really, really well, which is kind of a kick in the teeth if you want to play a kobold whose character is based around not being the standard toady.perhaps, but currently playing a kobold (hyperactive, minority complex, wannabe helpul) rogue 6 - I can say it's one of the most fun characters I've ever played

(and FYI: grovel isn't their strongest ability - it's pack tactic: the ability to get advantage on the same trigger you get to sneak attack)


On Orcs - I haven't played one yet, but I do have a fighter 10 who couldn't care less if his Int 10 would be Int 8. (the horror, now his intelligence (arcana) checks would get a -1 ! ). Stay away from orc wizard and you'll be fine (you can even still go orc eldritch knight - going for bufs, opposite to DC and attack spells).
The only (IMHO) valid complaints about orcs is that powerful build is reserved for large races (but PC races should be large for balancing reasons) and the disconnect between orc & half-orc.

[Princess]

Kobolds and orcs seem unfairly penalized and it's hard to see where the niche of Hobgoblins actually is, considering they're clearly worse fighters than dwarves on paper. But I don't think any of them are disasters unless a long time Kobold fan is upset about them being obvious toadies.

Yuan-ti Pureblood seem overpowered until one considers that either they are a caster who makes use of one of their ability mods, and most casters are already better at fighting other casters (Counter-spell, Dispel, and so on are all options for most of the Cha and Int classes), or you make the most out of spell resistance with a class that is normally without any protection from magic but the +Int and +Cha mean very little to you. It's similar to how the +2 strength and extra proficiencies in weapons and armor dwarves get are sort of redundant or contradictory in most cases.

That said, it wouldn't be the end of the world to house rule that their magic resistance is replaced by the gnome halfsies version. It's unnecessary, but it shouldn't hurt play or player interest if they sincerely want a magic serpentine character. The fear and distrust of Yuan-ti player characters is far more irrational than it's been presented as, and it adds a very interesting roleplay niche for people who like demi-humans with a catch. I would ban DMs who ban yuan-ti characters, personally, because their irrationality is unwelcome in my demesne.

[Dman]

Kobolds and orcs seem unfairly penalized and it's hard to see where the niche of Hobgoblins actually is,

I think Hobgoblins make decent wizards especially with saving face helping with concentration and stuff. the +2 to con is always nice too

[Sigreid]

Kobolds and orcs seem unfairly penalized and it's hard to see where the niche of Hobgoblins actually is, considering they're clearly worse fighters than dwarves on paper. But I don't think any of them are disasters unless a long time Kobold fan is upset about them being obvious toadies.


IMO Hobgoblins are high elves for people who don't want to play a high elf. And they make great wizards. Just as smart as the high elf, and a free light armor and one martial weapon proficiency gives them the ability to not take mage armor and a reasonable choice if they are in a situation where their magic is not an option.

Oh, and that saving face ability is pretty nice.

[Findulidas]

They all feel like UA races to me.

Everyone agrees yuanti is too strong.

They shouldnt have gone with reductions of stats on races. It breaks the general idea of races in 5e.

I think kobolds main ability of getting advantage of all attacks is too strong. With sunlight sensitivity it means you either have normal (disadvantage nullified advantage) attacks or your going to have advantage. In most of my battles they and me werent actually in sunlight which means a ranged kobold will have advantage on all attacks almost by default in any decently sized group. Thats huge. Furthermore if you have advantage and its nullified once by an disadvantage then you can safely ignore all other disadvantages there could possibly be since any additional disadvantages or advantages dont count, which means its still a bonus in sunlight. You can attack invisible monsters that are standing next to your companions normally as an example, even if you are in sunlight or they are.

Bugbear additional reach I feel can be abused in some strong way, but I dont actually see it right now. Perhaps rogues hit and run tactics? Disengage, go out and stab where they cant reach you with your daggers.

Goblin ability might be too strong since it gives 2/3 of rogues cunning ability, perhaps the most useful in battle you can pick if you dont want to be in melee.

[Sigreid]

They all feel like UA races to me.

Everyone agrees yuanti is too strong.

They shouldnt have gone with reductions of stats on races. It breaks the general idea of races in 5e.

I think kobolds main ability of getting advantage of all attacks is too strong. With sunlight sensitivity it means you either have normal (disadvantage nullified advantage) attacks or your going to have advantage. In most of my battles they and me werent actually in sunlight which means a ranged kobold will have advantage on all attacks almost by default in any decently sized group. Thats huge. Furthermore if you have advantage and its nullified once by an disadvantage then you can safely ignore all other disadvantages there could possibly be since any additional disadvantages or advantages dont count, which means its still a bonus in sunlight. You can attack invisible monsters that are standing next to your companions normally as an example, even if you are in sunlight or they are.

Bugbear additional reach I can be abused in some strong way, but I dont actually see it right now. Perhaps rogues hit and run tactics? Disengage, go out and stab where they cant reach you with your daggers.

Goblin ability might be too strong since it gives 2/3 of rogues cunning ability, perhaps the most useful in battle you can pick if you dont want to be in melee.

My group played with goblins for a bit and the ability to strike from range and bonus action hide in an area with ample cover was amazing. Strike, partial move, bonus hide, move more, wait for your next turn.

[Findulidas]

My group played with goblins for a bit and the ability to strike from range and bonus action hide in an area with ample cover was amazing. Strike, partial move, bonus hide, move more, wait for your next turn.

Yeah, its one of the reasons you would want to multiclass into rogue to be able to do that. I can see it being very good.

[jaappleton]

I like the player races. Tabaxi especially feel very unique to me, they feel different and fresh.

Monster Races?

I hate them.

I am not opposed to Kobolds, Goblins, Orcs, etc being playable. I'm not. I played a Gnoll once.

But I'm very much opposed to the options presented in Volo's. Yuan-Ti should never be allowed like that under any circumstances. Innate magic resistance? Really? Orcs are just bad, they feel blatantly inferior to Half Orcs. I don't like any race getting innate Pack Tactics, either.

Mechanically I've no issue with Hobgoblins. Those are fine.

[ad_hoc]

They're not supposed to be standard races like the rest.

They're supposed to be niche and constrained in how they are played.

They are monster races, not standard PC races. They have a separate section and are layed out differently to show this.

[Shadow_in_the_Mist]

For some reason my fantasy of a bugbear has always had reach. Medium Humanoids but with slightly elastic arms that let them spring attacks that had surprising reach. Does the MM version really not have that? My only guess is to reduce their possible DPR and keep them at a low enough CR for new adventures.

No, it doesn't; the MM bugbear has the same 5ft reach as any medium sized critter. What it does have is essentially a 1d6 Sneak Attack and the Brute feature, which amps up melee weapon damage by +1 dice - so that 1d4 dagger does 2d4 damage in the hands of the savage, brutish bugbear.

[Waterdeep Merch]

I just recently convinced a player to take half-orc instead of true orc and just refluff it. I really dislike how inferior the orc is. Even handing them one of the half-orc's best abilities like savage attacks isn't enough to convince me that it's worth playing, and that's horrible. Into the garbage bin it goes.

Yuan-Ti is powerful indeed, and a lot of people hate it for that. I actually... don't mind. Whatever leg up it has is only against casters, which it's geared best towards being. It has few to no defenses built in against mundane damage and a poor incentive to take a class that would offer them, creating a glaring weak point (the only exceptions being an eldritch knight and a paladin, which they're merely okay at being). It's the roleplaying implications of the Yuan-Ti Pureblood that actually gets the stink eye from me. If you're doing it right, you're a backstabbing waiting to happen. I really hate that as a player concept.

Bugbears are weird. Eh. At least they're interesting? I've never really had a use for bugbears in any game outside of 'biggest goblin'. I've always found regular goblins and hobgoblins more interesting and usable. Giving them a niche like long arms has made me rethink their culture a bit. Stretchy limbs is more iconic than they've been in 40+ years worth of gaming, as far as I'm concerned.

The kobold grovel ability gets some hate. But the kit without it, even with the extreme disadvantages, is sound. I'd say most brave kobolds just forego using it, which makes sense. It's like being a mountain dwarf wizard- you probably don't actually have a use for that strength, but it's an innate thing for you. The only thing that really does annoy me about the kobold is how narrow their build focus is. They make terrible- barbarians, melee fighters, most paladins, and clerics, and substandard- druids and non-evocation wizards. Whatever they play absolutely needs to rely on ranged attacks to be viable thanks to a nasty combination of negative traits. The worst part being, there's an easy fix- nix the (wholly unnecessary) strength negative and add a charisma bonus. Suddenly they've got some cool niches.

The hobgoblin, the last negative thing worth mentioning, has something weird going on with the save face ability. I kind of like the roleplaying implications, but it's super weird as a racial 'power'. I feel like that should be acted out, not given awkward rules.

The goblin's perfect in my eyes and can do no wrong.

[Findulidas]

They're not supposed to be standard races like the rest.

They're supposed to be niche and constrained in how they are played.

They are monster races, not standard PC races. They have a separate section and are layed out differently to show this.

This sets up for a poor example to follow which is why I think its a bad reason. They already had set up rules to follow when they built the core races. Rules that were tested and decided to be for the best. You have to have some balance to make it more fun. Breaking it using the reason that some races are exceptions is just bad. I think 3.5 proved that it was bad.

[DragonSorcererX]

The kobold grovel ability gets some hate. But the kit without it, even with the extreme disadvantages, is sound. I'd say most brave kobolds just forego using it, which makes sense. It's like being a mountain dwarf wizard- you probably don't actually have a use for that strength, but it's an innate thing for you. The only thing that really does annoy me about the kobold is how narrow their build focus is. They make terrible- barbarians, melee fighters, most paladins, and clerics, and substandard- druids and non-evocation wizards. Whatever they play absolutely needs to rely on ranged attacks to be viable thanks to a nasty combination of negative traits. The worst part being, there's an easy fix- nix the (wholly unnecessary) strength negative and add a charisma bonus. Suddenly they've got some cool niches.

That Grovel thing is humiliating for the glorious race that was once classified as TRUE DRAGON with a feat!

[ad_hoc]

This sets up for a poor example to follow which is why I think its a bad reason. They already had set up rules to follow when they built the core races. Rules that were tested and decided to be for the best. You have to have some balance to make it more fun. Breaking it using the reason that some races are exceptions is just bad. I think 3.5 proved that it was bad.

Optional rules/ways to play the game are just fine and don't hurt the base game at all.

I am personally glad that the monster races are separate from the regular races.

[DracoKnight]

I think Hobgoblins make decent wizards especially with saving face helping with concentration and stuff. the +2 to con is always nice too

See I think their niche is the Eldritch Knight, that's where I've seen them really shine. That and Abjuration Wizard.

[solidork]

Am I misunderstanding how the Orc ability Aggressive works? It's a little strange that it is worded the way it is (allowing you to move but not increasing your speed) but doesn't that make it better than normal when you are using your actual action to dash? So, you can move 30+30 normally, and then 60+60 when you dash.

I mean, I guess most combats don't involve chasing fleeing enemies (and when they do, getting separated from your party and led into trap is a real concern) or occur on scales where the extra movement isn't needed.

[Tetrasodium]

I'm playing a kobold moon druid in one game and have played a bit with a dex based tabaxi paladin. The kobold is super fun & when things get violent it's a great part of the team capable of making a lot of what would otherwise be mediocre to sub par beast forms into real powerhouses capable of wonderfully filling niches those beasts are aimed at poorly filling. The tabaxi is pretty much just like any other +dex race, but the climb speed has come in handy a good number of times & the speed thing is either irrelevant or perfect for as a fellow player once said "wow, that rught there was some crazy awesome anime ****" to close in on far off ranged attackers and zip around the battlefield while avoiding AoO's.

While I think the Orc is worse than half orc in almost every way & should have been size large instead of powerful build or had some other benefit(s), there have been times where I wanted to use my tabaxi move thing but couldn't because I had to wait, so the Orc variant might be even better if s gm likes using hard to quickly reach ranged foes. Powerful build in 5e only bumps your carrying capacity (whohoo who cares?) & is not the great thing it could be in 3.5

I dunno about bugbear, the reach might be pretty great, but I haven't seen them in use yet, I could see a rogue sneak attacking from 10 ft away & dancing off with cunning action to hide instead of disengage being great. Powerful build is pretty pointless for them too, but they get that long limed reach, surprise attack & darkvision


Given that nearly every one of the monstrous races are native to various cities/nations in eberron I half wonder if some of them were test runs where they can just be dismissed as kill on sight in FR before including a possibly revised version later in eberron after testing

[Findulidas]

Optional rules/ways to play the game are just fine and don't hurt the base game at all.

I am personally glad that the monster races are separate from the regular races.

You say that but from what I can tell most people on this website wouldnt allow homebrew content races/classes unless its balanced. Hence it follows that most of them would like any races to be balanced. Saying that there are other categories that dont need to be balanced undermines this and allows for homebrew content to not be balanced, which is not something people want.

[Tetrasodium]

You say that but from what I can tell most people on this website wouldnt allow homebrew content races/classes unless its balanced. Hence it follows that most of them would like any races to be balanced. Saying that there are other categories that dont need to be balanced undermines this and allows for homebrew content to not be balanced, which is not something people want.

When we don't have a guy with a hook horror pet (wtf?) with us, my GM regularly spikes the ball in my kobold's face while he's interacting with civilized humanoids, more than once I've returned the favor by interacting with monstrous humanoids in unexpected ways, a dance contest between aour bard & a drow prisoner for an ettin guarding a bridge was one of the most memorable results.... Having a tavernkeep suggest that elf was on the menu after our rogue rolled a 1 trying to pickpocket a drunken patron opened the door for another when myt kobold ordered the elf & played up how good it was while trying to get said elf to try it was a lot of fun too :D


Don't treat & play the monstrous races like the acceptable & semi-acceptable phb races.

[qube]

You say that but from what I can tell most people on this website wouldnt allow homebrew content races/classes unless its balanced. Hence it follows that most of them would like any races to be balanced. Saying that there are other categories that dont need to be balanced undermines this and allows for homebrew content to not be balanced, which is not something people want.
When we're talking about overpowered, sure, you got a point. But not underpowered? not so much. (many people allow underpowered races, if the player really wants to play it)


Don't treat & play the monstrous races like the acceptable & semi-acceptable phb races.oh, agreed. kobolds, goblins, bugbears ... these things get attacked on sight. Just because you're a player character shouldn't suddenly mean the entire world changes. Volo's even briefly mentions this fact - that before taking a monster race, consider how the world interacts with them

(and it's probbably a downside of Yuan-ti (a charisma monster race) that many overlook - getting disadvantage on any social interaction check as people really hate your kind)

[MaxWilson]

Am I misunderstanding how the Orc ability Aggressive works? It's a little strange that it is worded the way it is (allowing you to move but not increasing your speed) but doesn't that make it better than normal when you are using your actual action to dash? So, you can move 30+30 normally, and then 60+60 when you dash.

I mean, I guess most combats don't involve chasing fleeing enemies (and when they do, getting separated from your party and led into trap is a real concern) or occur on scales where the extra movement isn't needed.

You misunderstand how Dash works. It doesn't alter your speed; it just lets you move up to your speed as part of the Dash again.

[Tetrasodium]

I am not opposed to Kobolds, Goblins, Orcs, etc being playable. I'm not. I played a Gnoll once.




I expect we will see Znir Pact (http://eberron.wikia.com/wiki/Znir_Pact) Gnoll;s as playable once eberron comes around... but I would love to see an UA version of them before then

[DragonSorcererX]

I expect we will see Znir Pact (http://eberron.wikia.com/wiki/Znir_Pact) Gnoll;s as playable once eberron comes around... but I would love to see an UA version of them before then

Yeah, Gnolls are one of the "nicest" people in Drooam, most of them seem to be LN... different from those Hobgoblin thugs from Darguun that are Lawful only in the statblock...

[Tetrasodium]

Yeah, Gnolls are one of the "nicest" people in Drooam, most of them seem to be LN... different from those Hobgoblin thugs from Darguun that are Lawful only in the statblock...

Yea the big difference between the feel of Darguun & Droaam IMO ids that at a low level the Daughters of Sora Kell (keith-baker.com/dragonmarks-66-droaam-and-the-daughters-of-sora-kell/) are scary enough & came from nowhere with enough power under their control to make all the various fiefdoms (https://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/eberron/images/c/cf/Droaamgroups.png/revision/latest?cb=20151024160616) play nice enough to respect each others borders & see the value in things like trade lets they get replaced the same way that leaders who weren't willing to get on board fast enough got replaced. The fact that a lot of those little fiefdoms exist to protect themselves from easterners & each other likely helped the process along. Meanwhile over in Darguun they are still living large on the spoils of war & running on might makes right after seizing it from their ally Cyre in the chaos of the mourning.

History influenced poverty aside droaam is pretty advanced when you consider things like the grist mills, flags of travel, incorperarion of monster abilities into society (ie harpy song seminarcotic effect for entertainment, trolls lopping off bits & summon/conjure x spells for grist mills).

[DragonSorcererX]

Yea the big difference between the feel of Darguun & Droaam IMO ids that at a low level the Daughters of Sora Kell (http://keith-baker.com/dragonmarks-66-droaam-and-the-daughters-of-sora-kell/) are scary enough & came from nowhere with enough power under their control to make all the various fiefdoms (https://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/eberron/images/c/cf/Droaamgroups.png/revision/latest?cb=20151024160616) play nice enough to respect each others borders & see the value in things like trade lets they get replaced the same way that leaders who weren't willing to get on board fast enough got replaced. The fact that a lot of those little fiefdoms exist to protect themselves from easterners & each other likely helped the process along. Meanwhile over in Darguun they are still living large on the spoils of war & running on might makes right after seizing it from their ally Cyre in the chaos of the mourning.

History influenced poverty aside droaam is pretty advanced when you consider things like the grist mills, flags of travel, incorperarion of monster abilities into society (ie harpy song seminarcotic effect for entertainment, trolls lopping off bits & summon/conjure x spells for grist mills).

So, to solve the problem of Darguun, another nation just needs to go full "USA" and force some democracy there? It would be good for House Deneith to have one of their biggest sources of monstrous mercenaries to become "civilized" and it would also be good for House Tharashk and their petroleum dragonshard prospect business there, so whatever nation that would like to "civilize" them would get great support from these houses.

This would be a cool campaign!

[Tetrasodium]

So, to solve the problem of Darguun, another nation just needs to go full "USA" and force some democracy there? It would be good for House Deneith to have one of their biggest sources of monstrous mercenaries to become "civilized" and it would also be good for House Tharashk and their petroleum dragonshard prospect business there, so whatever nation that would like to "civilize" them would get great support from these houses.

This would be a cool campaign!


It's not that simple. The other nations have been at war for the last ~100 years & are still suffering from all the war in numerous ways. Nobody knows who or what caused the mourning & everyone is so afraid of it happening again that the war was hastily put to an end nobody was really happy with, Darguun was recognized as a nation because they 1 had a big army in everyone's territory, & 2 because nobody cared to/was in a dominant victor type position to fight for or demand that the Cyre mourner refugees to get that land back. Darguun is relatively contained & not worth toppling even if anyone were in a position to do so as a result of being bordered by mountains, ocean, & the mournlands. Droaam didn't get recognized like Darguun because they pretty much kept out of the war & everyone expected it to fall apart in a couple years akin to a bunch of street gangs taking over LA & declaring themselves a new nation would be expected to do. There are some great podcasts here (https://manifest.zone/) that get into a lot of that kinda stuff

[Troacctid]

You misunderstand how Dash works. It doesn't alter your speed; it just lets you move up to your speed as part of the Dash again.
Are you sure? When did you last look at that rule? *waves hands mystically*

[DragonSorcererX]

It's not that simple. The other nations have been at war for the last ~100 years & are still suffering from all the war in numerous ways. Nobody knows who or what caused the mourning & everyone is so afraid of it happening again that the war was hastily put to an end nobody was really happy with, Darguun was recognized as a nation because they 1 had a big army in everyone's territory, & 2 because nobody cared to/was in a dominant victor type position to fight for or demand that the Cyre mourner refugees to get that land back. Darguun is relatively contained & not worth toppling even if anyone were in a position to do so as a result of being bordered by mountains, ocean, & the mournlands. Droaam didn't get recognized like Darguun because they pretty much kept out of the war & everyone expected it to fall apart in a couple years akin to a bunch of street gangs taking over LA & declaring themselves a new nation would be expected to do. There are some great podcasts here (https://manifest.zone/) that get into a lot of that kinda stuff

It's Eberron so it will never be simple... and thanks for the podcast, I didn't knew about this one!

[Tetrasodium]

It's Eberron so it will never be simple... and thanks for the podcast, I didn't knew about this one!

the not simple is one of the best parts of eberron. While it's fantastically complicated, it's all very simple & logical to make it trivial for a gm to say "how would xyz affect things, who could/would react to it & how" :D They seem to be putting out a new one every week or two there & generally some great stuff.

[solidork]

You misunderstand how Dash works. It doesn't alter your speed; it just lets you move up to your speed as part of the Dash again.

You're totally right! So, is there another reason they templeted the Orc ability differently from Dash? I guess if it gave you additional movement, it might matter when during your turn you used the dash, or you would have to keep track of different 'pools' of movement that had different rules on what directions you could move?

[ShikomeKidoMi]

I don't have a problem with most of the Volo races. I don't mind the Yuan-Ti. I don't mind the Kobold. I don't mind the negative attribute penalties.

You know what I do mind? That there's practically no overlap in racial abilities between Orcs and Half-Orcs. And the Bugbear reach thing bothers me, since the monsters don't have that.


They all feel like UA races to me.Everyone agrees yuanti is too strong.

Except for all the people who don't, like me. And I'm not alone in this stance, as I recall from some of the debate threads when Volo's first come out.

[Saeviomage]

The Volo's races read like they were written for 4e. Collections of stats for stats sake.

[Tetrasodium]

The Volo's races read like they were written for 4e. Collections of stats for stats sake.

The "missing" bit you are looking for is either in the monster entry in volos, the monster entry in the MM, or both. Most of them have 2-3 pages or more

[Finback]

I don't think I'd mind the negative stat penalties if there were compensatory boosts, e.g. the kobold got a -2 for Str, but it had a +2 Dex, and a +1 Cha and/or a +1 Con. Likewise, orcs getting an Int penalty is ok if they get some more combat abilities.

Granted, this brings us back to more old-school racial builds, some of which were crazy, but I think it feels less penalising for taking these races.

[Spacehamster]

I was just looking at the PC stats for Goblins, Hobgoblins, Bugbears, Orcs, Kobolds and Yuan-ti Purebloods in Volo's Guide to Monsters again, and it really strikes me that I'm not a huge fan of the results.

Orcs and Kobolds were the first reintroduction of negative ability modifiers.

Kobolds not only have a triple-array of racial penalties (-2 Strength, Small, Sunlight Sensitivity), but their most powerful racial trait is based on their ability to grovel really, really well, which is kind of a kick in the teeth if you want to play a kobold whose character is based around not being the standard toady.

Yuan-ti Purebloods? Well, I've seen a lot of complaints about them being overpowered elsewhere, and I have to admit, the Magic Resistance trait does seem overpowered, even remembering the gnomic magic resistance from the PHB.

Bugbears getting a 10ft reach makes no sense, given it's an ability that the MM version lacks entirely and doesn't even fit the racial fluff - it's something that'd go better with a race like Firbolgs or Goliaths!

But enough about me. Did you have problems with any of these monstrous PC statblocks? If yes, which ones? Why? And are there any of the six races here that you would consider deserves an alternate, hopefully better-fitting statblock?

Kobold moon druid is extremely powerful, loose the sunlight sensitivity since racial sight stuff does not carry over, keep the pack tactics and never look back. :)

[Findulidas]

Kobold moon druid is extremely powerful, loose the sunlight sensitivity since racial sight stuff does not carry over, keep the pack tactics and never look back. :)

Yeah, people keep talking about the grovel ability. Completely ignoring the pack tactics which is super strong. Its advantage on all attacks next to an ally. How can that not be super good.

[Spacehamster]

Yeah, people keep talking about the grovel ability. Completely ignoring the pack tactics which is super strong. Its advantage on all attacks next to an ally. How can that not be super good.

Yep, negates sunlight sensitivity even when not a moon druid and as a moon druid ya get constant advantage. :)

[Waazraath]

I'm not really thrilled, but I guess they're ok. Have a bugbear partymember in one of my games atm, it's balanced. The goblin is thought out really well, the hob-goblin I don't like, 'saving face' feels a bit silly and I don't like it's an ideal race for wizards. The yuan-ti isn't interesting imo (though neither overpowered), nor is the orc.

So meh. But I'm not too enthusiastic of Volo's races in general, the Triton and Tabaxi aren't that interesting either for me.

[KorvinStarmast]

Yeah, people keep talking about the grovel ability. Completely ignoring the pack tactics which is super strong. Its advantage on all attacks next to an ally. How can that not be super good. Hobgoblins have it and it makes them tough melee fighters.

I don't like any of the PC monster race additions in Volos. All I can say when I read it was power creep, when taken as a whole (I looked at the whole thing, not just a state here or there) but in the defense of the designers they are trying to make each one a little bit unique. At some point you run out of string.

The Volo Aasimar player race I can just stomach, and only because WoTC made the original choice to roll with Tieflings.

We had messed about with adding a goliath to our group when EE came out, and Volo's is mostly the same.

Maybe.

I prefer the Genesai, though I suppose they'll remain in the EE Supplement.

[Maxilian]

I like them, though it makes me sad that the Orcs are so bad (i mean... why take an Orc when you can be a Half-Orc?), but i would still play the **** out of them.

Aasimar are OK, they look OP in paper, but they are not, they are just fun and thematic.

Lizardfolk are really big in RP or in none of it, the stats are not the most optimized but they give enough things to be quite flavored and be a nice option for many classes

The gentle giants (forgot their name) are a nice addition, something Clerics were asking for a while (also it works well for Nature Cleric or Druid when it goes by theme)

Not a fan of the Kenku, but they are quite interesting, they could bring a really fun RP into the game.

Bugbear, are really nice, the extra damage on surprise round, make them an interesting option for rogue even when their stats are not the best for it, and in general, make the idea of a stealthy party (be it rogue or not) quite interesting (The extra 5 feet means that, in many combats, you could use a hit and run tactics -if you are fighting creatures with a normal range of 5).

Kobold.... i actually really like Kobolds, they are fun, i do agree that the penalties are too much (and i would have liked something to show "how good they are at making traps" instead of grovel -is a nice ability but still-)

Goblins, ah, they shall always have a special place in me, they are pretty good even more with the ability to use their bonus action to disengage or dash

[ZorroGames]

Monster Races were... odd at first reading. No chance to read since then so my opinion is not fixed. On first read through little made me think, "Wow!" Maybe rereading will change that?

[Shadow_in_the_Mist]

Yeah, people keep talking about the grovel ability. Completely ignoring the pack tactics which is super strong. Its advantage on all attacks next to an ally. How can that not be super good.

The big reason that people tend to focus on the Grovel ability is because it's a hugely pinholing bit of flavor text. Pack Tactics actually balances itself out with Sunlight Sensitivity, because unless you're actually dungeon-crawling or fighting at night/indoors, all it's doing is nullifying the other. Grovel, on the other hand, all but demands you play the kobold in a very specific way, and for many players, that's completely opposite to what they want to play.